tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post1295008986187145066..comments2024-03-23T22:54:58.661-04:00Comments on FBC Jax Watchdogs: Hypocrisy in the SBC Over Female PastorsFBC Jax Watchdoghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comBlogger103125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-69872919863800580492010-03-27T09:27:51.008-04:002010-03-27T09:27:51.008-04:00I believe there are around 1200 female pastors wit...I believe there are around 1200 female pastors within the SBC. Some are the lead pastors and others the assistant pastors.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-57075401772756559642010-03-25T10:08:53.819-04:002010-03-25T10:08:53.819-04:00I apologize for not getting back to this, but I ha...I apologize for not getting back to this, but I have been enjoying starting a garden with my grandchildren. Against my better judgment I will list 25 names, as requested by Louis. These are names of professors, seminary staff and missionaries marginalized in SBC life by fundamentalism's ugly witch hunt. This is but a fraction of those fired or forced to resign and does not include others who were able to hang-on until retirement, and whose reputation and life's work was trampled by the fundamentalist stampede. Neither does it include scores of denominational staff who suffered the same fate. This only scratches the surface, but Louis wanted 25 names, so here they are:Alan Brehm, Karen Bullock, Paul Debusmen, Ressel Dilday, Milton Ferguson, Diana Garland, Roy Honeycutt, Dan Kent, Sheri Klouda, Randall Lolley, Molly Marshall, Jeff Poole, Stephen Stookey, Larry and Sarah Ballew, Rick and Nancy Dill, Tom and Rebecca Daniel, David and Susan Dixon, Ron and Lydia Barrow-Hankins, and Leon and Kathy Johnson.<br /><br />Lydia, I know many of the people listed above. They ARE good men and women, who have been faithful to the Word made flesh, and the word written. I was not trying to make a "declaration"; I was simply attempting to point to a tragic situation in SBC life: one I thought was well known. Perhaps I should have been more clear.Jimnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-50723156124743998282010-03-25T07:42:28.315-04:002010-03-25T07:42:28.315-04:00Lydia:
I'll take that as a long winded way of...Lydia:<br /><br />I'll take that as a long winded way of saying "No." <br /><br />You can't name them either.<br /><br />People who make claims about hundreds or thousands of professors in SBC seminaries who loved the Bible who were the objects of witch hunts during the CR should be challenged to name some of these folks.<br /><br />Your claim to be "protecting people" is a ruse. You simply cannot answer the question.<br /><br />The CR ended in 1992. The profs who were in the seminaries when the administrations changed were not as Jim described them. That is why neither he nor you can name them.<br /><br />LouisAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-90568197308850048952010-03-24T11:35:28.231-04:002010-03-24T11:35:28.231-04:00"But now that you have appeared, can you name..."But now that you have appeared, can you name just 25 out of the hundreds or thousands? <br /><br />I beginning to think that people like you and Jim just get used to people accepting declarations about how many professors who loved the Bible were hunted down (and probably tortured) because they did not subscribe to inerrancy. <br /><br />Let me see if you can name just 25. And please, don't use the "I need permission" excuse. Jim's already used that."<br /><br /><br />It is a good reason, Louis Marshall. Especially after one has seen what they will do to folks who DARE dissent in any way or shape. My object is protection of folks. Not harm.<br /><br />Knowing you from reading you for several years, you would work behind the scenes to ruin them even more. I simply do not trust you and you have given me NO reason to trust you. <br /><br /><br />Now, how about that comment you made several threads back about 'not anticipating working with the SBC' and we find out you are appointed to an SBC Foundation Board. What is to make me think you are any different when it comes to the tactics used by these men in power? Nothing. <br /><br />Remember, I have been reading you for quite some time now. <br /><br /><br />How is Marilio? Your facebook, pal.Lydiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17367390474045060624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-12598002016827755562010-03-24T09:35:07.066-04:002010-03-24T09:35:07.066-04:00“Southern Baptist [churches] took in $12 billion i...“Southern Baptist [churches] took in $12 billion in 2008 in their offering plate,” the IMB spokesperson pointed out. “And so some of it may be a matter of priority of how churches choose to spend their dollar. Whether they use it to focus on reaching the lost world or spend it on programs and ministries that benefit themselves.”<br />_________________________________<br /><br />Amen! and Amen! At least one IMB spokesperson sees and understands what this blog has been discussing! When the millions go to salaries and buildings and nepotism and land gifts for the pastor, and cruises...well, it just can't go to the missionaries too. One or the other needs to be cut. So, since the pastor controls the money and men who control the money, I guess we just need to cut 600 missionaries. Amen. And let's tell the people that it is God's will. Amen? And make sure you keep reminding them that the pastor is God's man and the staff is His gift to them. Then they won't question the obvious abuse of finances. Amen!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-62997842537383205972010-03-24T00:47:00.075-04:002010-03-24T00:47:00.075-04:0011:39 pm: They had rather build monuments to thems...11:39 pm: They had rather build monuments to themselves in the form of new buildings and alterations. They are never satisfied with what they have. I ask, what is more important spreading the gospel of Jesus Christ to a lost world, or buildings that don't matter and many of which will be grossly overpriced and unused. Buildings don't save people the gospel and Jesus do!!! But as usual wisdom has fled them and they are willing to go into debt to look like they are doing Gods work. How is losing 600 missionaries, but going into debt to build buildings or renovations the will of God?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-71399114330670476362010-03-23T23:39:04.190-04:002010-03-23T23:39:04.190-04:00Current cuts in Southern Baptist Land:
http://www...Current cuts in Southern Baptist Land:<br /><br />http://www.christianpost.com/article/20091126/southern-baptist-agency-to-cut-missionary-force-by-600/index.html<br /><br />The Southern Baptist Convention’s international mission agency will cut its overseas force by as many as 600 missionaries in 2010.<br /><br />Due to a severe budget shortfall, the International Mission Board decided to reduce the number of missionaries it has on the field, with the process already starting this year. <br /><br />There are currently a little above 5,500 IMB missionaries overseas and the plan is to decrease that number to about 5,000 by the end of 2010.<br /><br />“Southern Baptist [churches] took in $12 billion in 2008 in their offering plate,” the IMB spokesperson pointed out. “And so some of it may be a matter of priority of how churches choose to spend their dollar. Whether they use it to focus on reaching the lost world or spend it on programs and ministries that benefit themselves.”Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-11698025044393758012010-03-23T23:02:56.991-04:002010-03-23T23:02:56.991-04:00Lydia:
Glad to have you jump in for a familiar co...Lydia:<br /><br />Glad to have you jump in for a familiar comment format - insult followed by proclamation. <br /><br />But now that you have appeared, can you name just 25 out of the hundreds or thousands? <br /><br />I beginning to think that people like you and Jim just get used to people accepting declarations about how many professors who loved the Bible were hunted down (and probably tortured) because they did not subscribe to inerrancy. <br /><br />Let me see if you can name just 25. And please, don't use the "I need permission" excuse. Jim's already used that.<br /><br />You and I have already gone round and round the garden about inerrancy. Go back and check my previous posts here and other places to refresh yourself as to my thinking on this. <br /><br />LouisAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-51094858959276434922010-03-23T22:55:38.129-04:002010-03-23T22:55:38.129-04:00Jim:
With all due respect, you have got to be kid...Jim:<br /><br />With all due respect, you have got to be kidding. <br /><br />If they are deceased, you don't need permission.<br /><br />If they are alive and truly were the objects of witch hunts, why in the world wouldn't they give you permission?<br /><br />I am looking forward to seeing the names.<br /><br />Your response - when I ask a question, respond with a question does not portend a productive exchange.<br /><br />LouisAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-87177823812738749072010-03-23T21:01:19.982-04:002010-03-23T21:01:19.982-04:00Louis, if I can get permission from 25 of them (so...Louis, if I can get permission from 25 of them (some are now deceased), I will be pleased to post their names. Regarding whether or not I "believe in inerrancy"...I assume you mean Biblical inerrancy? Well, that depends on what you mean by "inerrancy" as it relates to Holy Scripture. Enlighten me and I will attempt to give you an honest, no frills answer.Jimnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-83513116104404489592010-03-23T19:34:26.814-04:002010-03-23T19:34:26.814-04:00Marshall Louis,
Were all the translators inerran...Marshall Louis, <br /><br />Were all the translators inerrant?<br /><br />Without the Holy Spirit, the Bible becomes a club to beat folks with or a license to sin. <br /><br />The CR used it as a club. I went along with it until I saw a lot of very bad things done by those in power first hand. And yes, I know quite a few that came off the mission field who were not liberals or even moderates.<br /><br />The CR was about political power. If it wasn't, most of the leaders would have repented on their faces publicly for the tactics they used.Lydiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17367390474045060624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-88540121232557589902010-03-23T16:30:27.310-04:002010-03-23T16:30:27.310-04:00$10MM in the hole? Lets add $120MM or whatever? S...$10MM in the hole? Lets add $120MM or whatever? Sounds like the ObamaPlan to me...!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-565889175156946762010-03-23T13:41:56.394-04:002010-03-23T13:41:56.394-04:00ANON.12:14 PM: Exactly!!! Thank you!!!ANON.12:14 PM: Exactly!!! Thank you!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-23220799338130772472010-03-23T12:14:16.479-04:002010-03-23T12:14:16.479-04:00"Innerancy"?
defined as
"Biblica..."Innerancy"?<br /><br />defined as <br /><br />"Biblical inerrancy is the doctrinal position that the Bible is considered accurate and totally free of error."<br /><br />Then there is "interpretation"<br /><br />where the Anointed Pastors "interpret" what it means to them and how the sheep are supposed to live, <br /><br />and there are alot of "thems" doing their own thing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-59913424733309276432010-03-23T09:42:28.829-04:002010-03-23T09:42:28.829-04:00Jim:
I disagree with New BBC and anon.
The CR wa...Jim:<br /><br />I disagree with New BBC and anon.<br /><br />The CR was about theology.<br /><br />I would enjoy your posting, say, the names of 25 professors (out of the "hundreds" or "thousands") who taught at SBC seminaries who "loved the Bible" and became the victim of a modern day witch hunt.<br /><br />I would also like to know if you believe in innerancy.<br /><br />LouisAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-47570212591508450582010-03-23T09:07:27.522-04:002010-03-23T09:07:27.522-04:00Jim you hit the nail on the head. This is one majo...Jim you hit the nail on the head. This is one major reason they are having so much trouble keeping the members in line as some actually believe the Bible more than the preacher.Many claim to preach "inerrancy" from an "inerrant" bible, yet pervert the word at every turn, and preach whatever fits their agenda. I have watched them do it for years. The "inerrancy tag" is what keeps them in business. I have seen them hold up bibles and claim "This is Gods inerrant Word". I always say "Yeah which one". Depends on which bible you are using. Bibles change the word constantly, version by version. They can't all be inerrant! Keep spreading the Word.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-38961102631088076452010-03-23T00:00:05.858-04:002010-03-23T00:00:05.858-04:00You're so right, Jim. Too bad it took a lot o...You're so right, Jim. Too bad it took a lot of us 20-30 years to realize that.New BBC Open Forumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18300115421477555376noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-88286499108307465042010-03-22T22:39:30.921-04:002010-03-22T22:39:30.921-04:00Watchdog, the Baptist battle was never about being...Watchdog, the Baptist battle was never about being "liberal" or "conservative"; and it sure as heck had nothing to do with accuracy in the interpretation of the Bible. It was about power and control of the largest non-Roman Catholic denomination in the United States. A few shrewd operators executed a brilliant plan to gain control of key convention offices then convince rank-and-file Baptists that a word like "inerrancy" should be the litmus test for Baptist orthodoxy and Biblical fidelity. It worked, and hundreds (perhaps thousands) of God fearing, Bible loving professors and missionaries became victims of the modern day witch hunts. Worse still, the entire SBC became corrupted by a fundamentalist mindset that has resulted in power hungry preachers who crave recognition and personal wealth, while pretending to be "God's men." Many of these same preachers will not even use the name "Southern Baptist" to identify their congregations. That is, I believe, the height of hypocrisy.Jimnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-45270609089993916202010-03-22T22:08:26.230-04:002010-03-22T22:08:26.230-04:00Anon 5:07pm. You are correct, however where are th...Anon 5:07pm. You are correct, however where are the pastors when it comes to murdering 4,000 babies daily in the U.S.? There is no outrage and little concern from the pulpits of America. All we seem to hear are portions of a new book, an elongated dissertation on a Greek verb, how they are suffering persecution and other trivial things that most people could care less about. What we need is some good old hell fire and damnation sermons with some fire in their bellies if that is still possible!!! The church is on the way out just like the dishonest and unpopular politicians since it is all about self interest!!! The church needs to be purified and the sooner the better.The church went wrong when it started hiring CEO's!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-57454108241087786782010-03-22T21:20:37.034-04:002010-03-22T21:20:37.034-04:00ANON:
Tell it to the Pharisee Pastors within the ...ANON:<br /><br />Tell it to the Pharisee Pastors within the Baptist Convention, <br /><br />They are the ones who need to hear "the word"....then act accordinglyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-83316999907728581262010-03-22T21:17:54.861-04:002010-03-22T21:17:54.861-04:00Anonymous said...
"We have an enemy today wh...Anonymous said...<br /><br />"We have an enemy today who is out to destroy the church."<br /><br />Like those power hungry pastors who take over church's as if they own them.<br /><br />Sounds just like those power hungry politicians in Washington.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-40234597163109057802010-03-22T17:07:14.335-04:002010-03-22T17:07:14.335-04:00"Don't deal with the issues, just silence..."Don't deal with the issues, just silence all dissent by name calling. Don't folks who use these tactics get as tired of using them as the rest of us do at hearing them?"<br /><br />Junkster:<br />All this in-fighting is like an army that goes to war but then turns on itself. When the enemy sees what's happening, it takes the opportunity to come in, overwhelm the army and defeat it.<br />This happened many times in scripture.<br /><br />We have an enemy today who is out to destroy the church. Instead of being a united army in these Last <br />Days, we Christians are turning on each other. We are fiddling while Rome burns! A house divided cannot stand. The more we fight and rail against one another, the weaker we become. We better wake up and see who our real enemy is and remind ourselves we have a God whom we will all stand before, and give an account to, for every idle word we have spoken.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-25979597465513092952010-03-22T16:36:52.352-04:002010-03-22T16:36:52.352-04:00"There are times when he preaches on subjects..."There are times when he preaches on subjects I wonder how can he say that when he himself didn't put his own words in practice. I have no respect for a DIVORCED PASTOR - they do not belong on stage.<br /><br />March 22, 2010 8:02 AM <br /><br />Dr. Stanley's wife divorced him; he did not divorce her. He never wanted nor asked for a divorce.<br />However, I am in agreement with you - he should have stepped down from being a pastor in spite of his people voting to keep him there.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-25004225147351618612010-03-22T14:32:10.300-04:002010-03-22T14:32:10.300-04:00Dog:
I was just using the old definitions.
FBC...Dog:<br /><br />I was just using the old definitions. <br /><br />FBC Decatur and Druid Hills are squarely within that camp. <br /><br />I am sure that there is much to be admired in both places, but I have visited one of these churches and drove by the other every day for 3 years. You know, you really do learn a lot from church displays and signs!<br /><br />At any rate, I don't disagree that people throw labels around, often carelessly.<br /><br />But what I am seeing in the case of the GBC, they are trying to draw a line on the women's issue that eliminates from their membership moderate or liberal Baptist Churches like these two churches. <br /><br />It is fine to point out the various types of arrangements that conservative churches have with respect to women serving, but the GBC does not have an issue with them because I do not believe they advocate for the ordination of women and other issues that these moderate and liberal churches do.<br /><br />I wouldn't call it hypocrisy. I would say it's a contoured line, rather than a straight one. But, interestingly, it works because it excludes those churches who are really not a part of SBC or GBC life anyway. <br /><br />What I find interesting is that FBC Decatur and Druid Hills really don't seem to care, which may be a good thing.<br /><br />The Baptists had 2 groups within their midsts anyway who did not agree on much. Time has seen a continuing separation of these groups, which needed to happen.<br /><br />I would not say that all CBF churches are far away from the SBC. But many of them have emphases, programming and will promote or allow for pracitces and interpretations that are nowhere near what Baptists believe, under any of their historic confessions.<br /><br />As time goes by it is healthy for these groups to pursue their own emphases and agendas.<br /><br />It is ashamed that denominational politics and parliamentary matters play a part in this, rather than the natural process. <br /><br />But with the denominational agencies no longer within reach, I think it allows the moderates or liberals (old definition, again) to move on gracefully.<br /><br />It will be interesting to see how the gender issue develops in the future. It may be an academic question, really. Because even those churches or pastors who allow for the possiblity of ordaining women and hiring them as pastoral leaders are not doing so. There is quite a bit of acrimony in the CBF camp about this. So much so that I think February was someting like "Call a woman to preach" month or something. Churches were encouraged to invite women to speak in their pulpits that month or something like that. And that's the CBF camp. The SBC camp is even more conservative.<br /><br />But, it will be interesting to see how it develops over the years.<br /><br />LouisAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-12542982113192456452010-03-22T14:24:03.592-04:002010-03-22T14:24:03.592-04:00Very interesting comments. Check the Fellowship C...Very interesting comments. Check the Fellowship Church website and the message this weekend. While Ed was in Europe, one of the staff members, who is a regular speaker, gave the message. She is one of the best communicators at Fellowship. Although she speaks often, she does not have the title of "pastor".<br /><br />www.fellowshipchurch.comAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com