tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post1481122068704422906..comments2024-03-23T22:54:58.661-04:00Comments on FBC Jax Watchdogs: Sutton Ousted at Two Rivers: Lessons for Brunson and FBC Jax - Part 1FBC Jax Watchdoghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-91086203926413868872014-04-28T11:33:18.696-04:002014-04-28T11:33:18.696-04:00From SickOfMiniPopes: http://fbcjaxwatchdog.blogsp...From SickOfMiniPopes: http://fbcjaxwatchdog.blogspot.com/2008/07/sutton-ousted-at-two-rivers-lessons-for.html?showComment=1350778601148#c195886406024467897<br /><br />I heard one snippet about that while I was there from '05-'09 from either JH or SM, I can't remember which.<br />Nothing changed after you left I've come to find in hindsight. A group of 7 staff members plus myself know for a fact that Jerry lied through his teeth from the pulpit about a staff change. The person being changed was actually not backing down about another issue I cannot discuss and that staff member was being secretly fired. Jerry stood in the pulpit and blatantly lied about it.TRBC Survivorhttp://churchjudge.menoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-19566126609124575782014-04-28T11:23:08.258-04:002014-04-28T11:23:08.258-04:00I love what RM said: http://fbcjaxwatchdog.blogspo...I love what RM said: http://fbcjaxwatchdog.blogspot.com/2008/07/sutton-ousted-at-two-rivers-lessons-for.html?showComment=1217429040000#c5582081256030388931<br /><br />Now the whole property is for sale and there are less than 500 people attending. <br /><br />A house divided will not stand, And thank God that "church" that was nothing more than a club for arrogant, holier-than-anyone-else is dead.<br /><br />TRBC Survivorhttp://www.churchjudge.menoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-70311951344914786322013-04-16T11:38:43.241-04:002013-04-16T11:38:43.241-04:00Full disclosure, I am an associate pastor in a &qu...Full disclosure, I am an associate pastor in a "not even close to the size of a megachurch" church. sickofminipopes, you may be sincere, but if I knew you I probably would have a hard time trusting you. Please be honest: you may be a troublemaker, and there may or may not be anything wrong with that.<br />Watchdog, it's easy to hide behind a moniker and throw your version of imprecatory psalms at people who seem to give your mortal enemies the benefit of the doubt. I'm beginning to think that how Christians are handling weblogs may be similar to how Margaret Sanger handled eugenics. danhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03169069293991865208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-1958864060244678972012-10-20T20:16:41.148-04:002012-10-20T20:16:41.148-04:00I attended Two Rivers in 2001/2002. Long story, s...I attended Two Rivers in 2001/2002. Long story, short. I saw the signs of a pastor who cared about his position over being a true "servant leader".<br /><br />I went to him for help. Another lay member had falsely accused me of writing an anonymous letter.<br /><br />I met with the man one on one. He continued to say I wrote the letter, even after I said I had not.<br /><br />I went to the church leadership and Sutton for help.<br />They told me I was a trouble making and was "stirring up trouble".<br /><br />I cited Matt 18. I said I had met with the man one-on-one, and he continued to believe (and tell others) I had written the letter. I asked to meet with 2-3 mature men of the church with the accusing member.<br /><br />No help.<br /><br />I went and got a polygraph test. I walked up to "Brother Jerry" at the end of a service and handed it to him.<br />I told him I didn't write the anonymous letter, and he did nothing to help me.<br />He pointed his finger at me.<br />Continued to call me the trouble maker and that "I should have dropped it a long time ago".<br /><br />That was my last Sunday there. Circa 2002.<br /><br />I was NOT surprised to see this unaccountable/narcissist behavior end the way it did.<br /><br />I had nothing to do with it. I moved away from Nashville a few months after my last meeting with Brother Jerry.<br /><br />Keep telling the truth "watchdog"....and people who think "because preaches a good sermon, they must have integrity"...you're sadly mistaken.<br /><br />Rev 2, Church of Ephesus had sound doctrine. But the Lord rebuked them.<br /><br />Without love, you are nothing. 1 Cor 13. <br /><br />The surprising part for me isn't the narcissist pastors. Its the people who look the other way because somebody can preach a decent sermon.<br /><br />It's sick.<br /><br />I just left a church because of its blatant nepotism. I asked why the pastor (who had been let go) ... why he had been let go. I was told I was a trouble maker.<br /><br /><br />Rinse and Repeat.<br /><br />The other power this mini popes have is the false power the congregation gives them.<br /><br />Stop teaching and admiring the Jesus who overturns the tables in the temple.......and then sit in silence as your pastor puts a world into place where he is unaccountable to anyone.<br /><br />You think people would learn. But they don't. They worship their pastor and "he can do no wrong".<br />No, if you think he can do no wrong, you're ignoring God's Word. (1 John 1 ).<br /><br />sickOfMiniPopeshttp://www.sickofminipopes.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-24499761543962860932012-07-05T21:37:39.867-04:002012-07-05T21:37:39.867-04:00Frankly...I think much of the problem lies within ...Frankly...I think much of the problem lies within the SBC itself. Pushing to Take " Southern " out of the name. Going on about the possibility of having the next president be black. <br /><br />Pastors making huge salaries and getting severance packages like corporate executives. Sunday school teachers seeking the ministry because they think the pay is better than their job and allow them to vent their egos as well. <br /><br />Folks it's about faith and that God will provide. It's not about having a high salary and benefits package where you will be afraid to lose your job or feel haughty. <br /><br />I don't think any Pastor should make six figures in most American cities. They shouldn't take land deals, live in million dollar homes or drive sixty thousand dollar cars.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-30187998568663426392008-10-11T20:35:00.000-04:002008-10-11T20:35:00.000-04:00Sutton at Bellevue Baptist 8 10 2008<A HREF="http://freetostay.multiply.com/video/item/2" REL="nofollow">Sutton at Bellevue Baptist 8 10 2008</A>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-89583512096810455602008-07-31T08:21:00.000-04:002008-07-31T08:21:00.000-04:00Robert - put your thinking cap on please. Of cours...Robert - put your thinking cap on please. Of course I don't know these people. I don't know them well enough to call them "old geezers", or to assume their motives for wanting to see financial records, or to arrogantly proclaim like RM that these people "got what they deserved". What arrogance from a pastor, a so called "man of God" that he would from afar pass judgement on these church members who wanted to see financial records of their church. <BR/><BR/>But you and RM posting your thoughts here is instructive. RMs comments are an example of pastors who have nothing but contempt for people who demand accountability and demand answers to questions about finances...and yours are an example of a layperson who will also pass judgement on these same people and wish that they leave the church. Also the hypocrisy of RM and others saying that we'll never get answers to questions at FBC Jax while staying anonymous is now so evident. These people were NOT anonymous, still got no answers, were kicked out of the church...and now RM calls them "old geezers". So its really not about the anonymity that bothers RM, its the fact that they demand answers. Maybe Two Rivers is hitting a little close to home for RM, maybe he himself is dealing with rascals in his congregation daring to hold him accountable.<BR/><BR/>Your last statement about "legal fees" shows just how immature you are Robert. As though any of this has anything to do with legal fees. Yep, if only those idiots had thought about the legal fees they would have incurred, this would have never happened.<BR/><BR/>And pastors reading RM's final post, I hope he doesn't represent the typical pastor. Looking at the Two Rivers fiasco he heaps the blame all on the inquiring church members. The blame for what has happened goes to Sutton primarily. It was his handling of questions from his church members that created the mess. If there were no financial shenanigans, he should have opened the books. If there were, he should have opened the books and apologized and made restitution. I'm glad you are not posting further RM, because your final comment shows you are a sorry example of a pastor who has contempt for the sheep - especially those rascals who non-anonymously demand answers to questions.FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-82818184970538834302008-07-30T14:32:00.000-04:002008-07-30T14:32:00.000-04:00I probably spent more time than you have on their ...I probably spent more time than you have on their website--but the sad thing is that I have met people just like them for years and years. They are nothing new. The unique thing is that the Two Rivers family had enough sense to expel them before they completely destroyed the church. I doubt seriously if they will be welcomed back into the fold. <BR/><BR/>I do enjoy reading about how you have the insight to lump all pastors together. I am beginning to think that you actually do fit the profile on that website that you condemned so heartily. I would imagine nearly everything he said about you is true. You see the unique thing is that we pastors all know how to recognize certain personality traits in members just like you think you do among pastors. <BR/><BR/>Since I know you want to keep you unbiased attention completely focused on Mac, I'll bid you farewell. I actually thought you had some creedance to some of your complaints but I'm beginning to see that your blog is nothing more than a very unhappy and disgruntled church member wanting to get attention and cause trouble. <BR/><BR/>Hopefully the Lord will be more gracious to you and your motives than your church family--that is, if they actually knew who you were.RMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10769726517498571207noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-72174052883962888292008-07-30T13:17:00.000-04:002008-07-30T13:17:00.000-04:00You are a funny man Watchdog. RM doesn't know thes...You are a funny man Watchdog. <BR/>RM doesn't know these people....I suppose you do?? I guess all recalcitrants are alike, I suppose.<BR/><BR/>After further reading, I think the lesson that can be learned here is that in every church you will have sheep that will refuse to shed the wool and be guided through the pastures. Instead, some will want to leap off cliffs and file lawsuits while doing so. <BR/><BR/>RM, do not pay the Watchdog or the TwoRivers nuts any attention. You are not disgraceful as the Watchdog says you are.<BR/>You keep preaching and pastoring according to God's will for you and the church and everything will be fine. <BR/><BR/>Keep it up my brother!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-80606135136706123202008-07-30T11:07:00.000-04:002008-07-30T11:07:00.000-04:00The truth RM is you don't know those people. Readi...The truth RM is you don't know those people. Reading them in the newspaper is NOT the way to understand what they believe as a group, but better to go to their website which you apparently don't want to do. They had legitimate gripes. They wanted to see financial records. Sorry you can't deal with the truth. You apparently have a contempt for parisihoners who dare to ask "God's Man" questions about finances. <BR/><BR/>Also RM, the purpose of my blog post here is to not discuss motives of the "recalcitrants" at Two Rivers, their motives and the legitimacy of their concerns. That's water under the bridge; their out, so is Sutton.<BR/><BR/>Now the relevant question for YOU and for Brunson and other pastors is: what can be learned. Should Sutton have handled things differently? Should he just have opened the books for these people without them resorting to a lawsuit? Did he win the battles but lost the war? Those are the relevant questions. But pastors like you will probably still want to heap stones on the sheep who dared to demand the answers to legitimate questions. How disgraceful. <BR/><BR/>I say Sutton got what HE deserved. And I wouldn't be surprised if the 77 sheep are welcomed back into the fold.FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-73595182064892531372008-07-30T10:51:00.000-04:002008-07-30T10:51:00.000-04:00RM - and you're a pastor?I gather you don't know t...RM - and you're a pastor?<BR/><BR/>I gather you don't know those people, yet are passing judgement on their motives and worship styles.<BR/><BR/>Goes to show how you harping on the anonymity issue is just a red herring. These people DID come forward with their names and their concerns, yet now YOU from Texas label them as "old geezers" who got what they deserve. <BR/><BR/>And if you're referring to me or others as being against change, you don't know what what you're talking about sir, because I am NOT against change at our church. Yes some have posted here about PD, but that is not the main beef of this blog.<BR/><BR/>Your comment RM proves that pastors like you and Mac just don't get it. They want to call for the congregation to swallow all the change in the world, but they themselves don't want to change their old practices of church governance of keeping financial details from the people of the church who really want to know.FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-55820812560303889312008-07-30T10:44:00.000-04:002008-07-30T10:44:00.000-04:00Those people at Two Rivers could have cared less a...Those people at Two Rivers could have cared less about the "truth." They were a bunch of old geezers that didn't like change and a more contemporary style (does that remind you of someone else?). The end result was that they got themselves booted out of the church with absolutely no voice whatsoever.<BR/><BR/>In my opinion, they got exactly what they deserved. <BR/><BR/>Two Rivers is a good strong church and will make it just fine through this difficult time. Jerry shepherded them well for 22 years and it will show as they rebound quickly. Just watch and see...RMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10769726517498571207noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-13134842067609612902008-07-29T17:20:00.000-04:002008-07-29T17:20:00.000-04:00Watchdog,Everyone knows that you and the FBC membe...Watchdog,<BR/><BR/>Everyone knows that you and the FBC members who support your side will not file a lawsuit against the pastor. That's just not going to happen. You won't even claim identity to your blog, so why would you expose yourself and file a lawsuit...you wouldn't. So my question is this: What will you do to further your cause of better accountability and transparency? I ask because the blog has done nothing. So what is plan B?<BR/><BR/>If there are lessons to be learned from Two Rivers that are applicable to FBC Jax, there has to be a learning process. Do you think this blog has influenced that at all? If so, how? <BR/><BR/>"And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”<BR/>John 8:32 <BR/><BR/>After starting my research of which the Watchdog requested us all to do, I found this verse at the top of the TwoRiversInfo.org webpage. The ideas of truth and freedom are found all over their website and seem to be tied together. It's really why they started the website to begin with. They wanted us to know their side of the story, the truth rather than what has been fed to everyone through the media and the pastor as they claim. But were they thinking about this verse when they filed the lawsuit against Pastor Sutton? Did they think a lawsuit would bring them the truth and freedom they were searching for because it seems that it brought the exact opposite. Had they not filed a lawsuit and instead left the church to begin with, they would not have been removed from the membership and they would not have had to pay the outrageous legal fees. They simply could have left the church if they were not happy with the leadership.<BR/><BR/>That's all for now.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com