tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post1726000381202539726..comments2024-03-07T00:24:23.674-05:00Comments on FBC Jax Watchdogs: Guest Blogger: A Plan for MediationFBC Jax Watchdoghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comBlogger153125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-85193222622681810622009-09-28T18:26:24.766-04:002009-09-28T18:26:24.766-04:008:46 on 9-25-09....your comments have left me sayi...8:46 on 9-25-09....your comments have left me saying, yup, thats EXACTLY how they act. Seen it, experienced it, and know you are telling the truth.<br /><br />I realize this is off topic of the original post, but as a former attendee back in the 70's of the "christian schools" in this area...let me just say, that NOW THAT THEY HAVE STARTED A SCHOOL in this church FBC JAX...they better prepare these kids for what they will encounter. I feel sorry for kids in Christian schools in this area. I pray to God their lives won't be ruined the way mine and others I know were. There were MANY.<br /><br />THEY KNOW WHAT THEY DO. Those who are guilty in this city, sitting on the staffs of these Christian schools, on the staffs anywhere in the church, on the staffs of the janitorial crews, need I go on? THEY KNOW WHAT THEY"VE DONE AND WHAT THEY DO. PREPARE these kids for these people they will encounter. There is nothing more twisted than thinking as a young person you are encountering a Christian figure only to find out you encountered a wolf in sheeps clothing. They will need the preparation. And to 8:46 on 9-25....let me tell you something. I truly believe that there are some in the hierarchy of the Baptist church that don't want these kids trained on how to prepare themselves. They will lose their prey that way.<br /><br />Not trying to scare anyone but I speak from total experience. There is a place in this city I can't even drive by to this day without a panic attack. A "christian" place. PREPARE YOUR OWN KIDS IF NO ONE WILL HELP YOU. 8:46 knows what shes talking about. They'll turn on you like a dog if you tell what happened to you. I know what I'm saying. Protect your family. I wish this weren't true.<br /><br />Let's protect the church from the big bad blogger and let the snakes run free. (not that i agree with you fbcjax watchdog....but have mercy....you are not the worst I have seen)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-60050163027807586032009-09-27T16:17:54.065-04:002009-09-27T16:17:54.065-04:00"As for "goofballs", I think that y..."As for "goofballs", I think that you would be surprised on how close we would be at identifying them, or "goofball-like" behavior."<br /><br />Why don't you give us some examples so we will know what YOU mean by goofball.Lydiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17367390474045060624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-72589546052088385782009-09-27T15:38:04.817-04:002009-09-27T15:38:04.817-04:00Lydia:
I know that you do not believe in lay lead...Lydia:<br /><br />I know that you do not believe in lay leadership. That is a fundamental disagreement that you and I have. It's o.k. for us to feel differently about that, however.<br /><br />As for "goofballs", I think that you would be surprised on how close we would be at identifying them, or "goofball-like" behavior.<br /><br />LouisAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-58777687911931444452009-09-27T12:39:31.078-04:002009-09-27T12:39:31.078-04:00Hebrews?
What is the correlation to Paul - Peter ...Hebrews?<br /><br />What is the correlation to Paul - Peter rebuke and the book of Hebrews?<br /><br />Just curious.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-84124481914255495912009-09-26T22:24:31.706-04:002009-09-26T22:24:31.706-04:00I have not seen any evidence that Tom tried to spe...I have not seen any evidence that Tom tried to speak with anyone in leadership before launching this blog. That is troubling.<br />_______________________________<br /><br />Excellent observation. Although the blog seems to be about many things, the most basic, fundamental issue is the one above. But why is troubling? Tom CHOSE to make his concerns and questions known to the pastor privately, via anonymous emails to the pastor. Mac CHOSE not to respond to them and attacked from the pulpit those who send such emails. Pretty simple really. Tom then CHOSE to blog anonymously to bring those issues out into the public arena for discussion to shed light on them and indirectly, force the leadership to respond. Again, mac CHOSE not to respond. Still, fairly simple. Unfortunately, Mac was persistent in fundraising and angry beating of the ship week after week, month after month, year after year, and Tom was just as persistent in pointing all of this out. NEITHER man was willing to talk with the other it seems, when either or both coulda shoulda woulda. <br /><br />But the dynamic changed when the church used the JSO and State Attorney to find his identity. Then trespassed he and his wife instead of following Matthew 18. Then when Tom discovered how they did this, they scrambled and made up charges against him to try and justify their actions. Then they slandered him and tried to discredit him behind closed doors and in the hallways of the church and then in the local media. So, once the church used the legal system to hurt Tom, he used it too, to try and finally get answers to what they did and why they did it. Again, he CHOSE to use the justice system,just as Mac CHOSE to use the JSO and SAO.<br /><br />But I can't blame them both equally because Mac has all the power, money, followers, and microphone every week. Tom has only his keyboard and opinions on the facts as he sees them.<br /><br />Trying to blame Tom for this current mess is not logical, not biblical, not Christ like, and is just plain old inmaturity. It is not troubling. But the actions of Mac, Debbie, Blount, Soud and Hinson ARE troubling. And they will be accountable in state and federal courts of law.<br /><br />Thanks.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-37572605575211196922009-09-26T22:15:27.806-04:002009-09-26T22:15:27.806-04:00"I was told that under no circumstances would..."I was told that under no circumstances would they provide that training or even hand out information where our youth could attend this training off church property. I was told that it was too unseemly of a subject matter to be appropriate at church. For those that have never been to FBC Jax, let me tell you that there are a large number of home schooled kids where the youth groups are their only social contact and the only forum where some of these kids can get a class like this. Where else would these kids get this information?"<br /><br />I guess it goes without saying these kids know nothing of the Old Testament. It is much too seemly for the youth to read in context. Perhaps they are still showing them Veggie Tale stories. I know that is about the depth of many of of our SBC churches for adults!<br /><br />Besides, they would just insist you forgive the member rapist and stop being bitter. Just sit further away from him at church. After all, he said sorry. And you are just a gal. You should expect it. You probably asked for it. (Have you not figured out this is how they think about girls) You know, boys will be boys. They worship macho there.<br /><br />Didn't they have sexual pervert roaming the halls there at one time?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-88965473042702236322009-09-26T19:48:36.815-04:002009-09-26T19:48:36.815-04:00Anonymous
Who said that the liberal media will be...Anonymous<br /><br />Who said that the liberal media will be contacted? The conservatives won't like this either. You have messed with journalistic freedom and the conservs will be miffed as well.Deenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-34157918682755502602009-09-26T17:32:48.536-04:002009-09-26T17:32:48.536-04:00//
Well I can tell you that Mac is no John and To...//<br /><br />Well I can tell you that Mac is no John and Tom is no Paul. <br /><br />Correction:<br /><br />John should be Peter..<br /><br />ApologiesAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-80895275781715171972009-09-26T16:42:48.201-04:002009-09-26T16:42:48.201-04:00Paul did not act anonymously either in your exampl...Paul did not act anonymously either in your example.<br /><br />September 26, 2009 1:52 PM<br /><br />Then you had best discount the book of Hebrews.Lydiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17367390474045060624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-77084920980603638582009-09-26T16:39:03.185-04:002009-09-26T16:39:03.185-04:00"Don't think that I would join a church w..."Don't think that I would join a church where the pastor was a goofball, or the lay leadership were goofballs."<br /><br />I guess that depends on your definition of goofball. <br /><br />btw: I do not recognize 'lay leadership' as being Biblical. We are all in the "priesthood" if truly saved. There is no clegy/laity distinctions in the NC. Only gifts of the Holy Spirit which function in the Body of Christ and the spiritually mature as elders.Lydiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17367390474045060624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-69505616722853786442009-09-26T14:09:23.185-04:002009-09-26T14:09:23.185-04:00Lydia:
Then I was totally wrong. Forgive me. I ...Lydia:<br /><br />Then I was totally wrong. Forgive me. I thought I read something about a class that you and your husband taught etc. Must have been someone else.<br /><br />You know, it's interesting. I have had great church experiences in my Christian experience. Don't think that I would join a church where the pastor was a goofball, or the lay leadership were goofballs.<br /><br />But as we all know, it's easy for a goofball to end up in power. And then you're stuck with how to deal with him/her.<br /><br />Take care.<br /><br />LouisAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-75971816662343309222009-09-26T13:52:16.265-04:002009-09-26T13:52:16.265-04:00I guess you and Mac know more than Paul or John?
...I guess you and Mac know more than Paul or John?<br /><br />//<br /><br />Well I can tell you that Mac is no John and Tom is no Paul. <br /><br />Paul did not act anonymously either in your example.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-2288438424046685382009-09-26T13:12:37.216-04:002009-09-26T13:12:37.216-04:00WD, this is the scripture twisting and proof texti...WD, this is the scripture twisting and proof texting that just wears me out in the SBC.<br /><br />It is scary when you think of all the folks sitting there believing his interpretation without ever studying on their own. <br />But even then they tend to read into the scripture whatever the pastors says it says.<br /><br />This helps to see how fooled people can become. How blind they are and how they can continue to believe wrong things<br /><br />He could not be more wrong about that passage. He tried to make it fit a premise he wanted to use to control folks. Strange, this is what Diotrephes did, too.Lydiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17367390474045060624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-69559286922177550822009-09-26T12:28:59.926-04:002009-09-26T12:28:59.926-04:00Anon - no, Brunson and Smyrl view the Diotrophes r...Anon - no, Brunson and Smyrl view the Diotrophes reference in 3 John to be referring to "church gossipers" who divide the church - when its clear Diotrophes was a powerful church leader who needed to be publicly rebuked. Smyrl preached a sermon on 3 John and Diotrophes earlier this year, that I blogged about, which you might find interesting. You can read it <a href="http://fbcjaxwatchdog.blogspot.com/2009/02/smyrls-sermon-on-3-john.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>.FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-39123767671297877882009-09-26T12:12:21.722-04:002009-09-26T12:12:21.722-04:00"You did not confront Dr. Brunson privately i..."You did not confront Dr. Brunson privately in a Christian manner before going public."<br /><br />Then Paul was in sin too for not confronting Peter in a "Christian manner" before publicly rebuking him for his sinful behavior. John too, with Diotrephes. <br /><br />I guess you and Mac know more than Paul or John?<br /><br />Where do you guys learn this stuff? Mac's behavior is public. He is a public teacher. He chose to be a celebrity. His offense was not against Tom personally ala Matt 18. <br /><br />He is a hypocrite who writes one thing in a book and does the opposite!<br /><br />His behavior was not biblical and Tom pointed it out for any who care to know. The reason you do not see it is because you allow yourself to be taught by guys like Mac who twist scripture for their own benefit.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-12987000712587960712009-09-26T07:42:19.194-04:002009-09-26T07:42:19.194-04:00My apologies for having missed your answer in prev...My apologies for having missed your answer in previous posts. You did not confront Dr. Brunson privately in a Christian manner before going public.<br /><br />There you have it.<br /><br />Watchdog does have something to apologize for after all. <br /><br />Dr. Brunson may have some faults. Everyone has faults. Faults can be worked on and corrected. <br /><br />It appears that the 2 major programs that Dr. Brunson initiated or picked up on,which are, the Southside Campus and the Academy are going along pretty well. I do not think that he has skipped a beat with regard to his pastoral duties in the process.<br /><br />If anything, you should pray that FBC Jax continues reaching out to the Duval County community and even further out to the world. The satellite church may be the best idea going to reach more people. We will see.<br /><br />The Wartburg ladies talk about the bigger picture with dwindling memberships in the SBC in general. Look at what is growing out there. Health and welfare preaching. Your mistake is that you are threatening to bring in the liberal media attention to this matter. Try bringing in a conservative minded radio talk host. We love our conservatives in this town. <br /><br />I thank God that there is at least one conservative minded preacher. SBC could possibly cure its membership problems by promoting the "health and welfare" ministry.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-85557899453775697342009-09-25T23:44:43.918-04:002009-09-25T23:44:43.918-04:00Dee - yes, amazing isn't it?
The previous ano...Dee - yes, amazing isn't it?<br /><br />The previous anon boils ALL of this down to the question of whether I went to leadership before starting this blog.<br /><br />I've answered this numerous times, but will again.<br /><br />Never sought a personal meeting with Brunson. Did send two anonymous emails that were very kind, identifying myself as a long-time member concerned with his actions during the first year, in hopes that he would address these issues openly and honestly with the church. Sent an email to Calvin Carr with my name on it, expressing concern over one particular decision of leadership.<br /><br />Thankfully, not all people at FBC Jax have their head in the sand like sst and this other anon. Some know they are in for a rough road with Brunson at the helm, and the legal issues to come.FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-5646557515672370982009-09-25T22:59:51.152-04:002009-09-25T22:59:51.152-04:00STT Sums it up.
I have not seen any evidence that ...STT Sums it up.<br />I have not seen any evidence that Tom tried to speak with anyone in leadership before launching this blog. That is troubling.<br /><br />//<br /><br />No one is going to the supreme court to argue constitutional law.<br /><br />The argument is not over the decline of the SBC and every other denomination. (Maybe the problem is too many Christians beating each other up)<br /><br />This is not a Theological study group.<br /><br />This is the court of public opinion.<br /><br /><br />The question is whether Tom made any attempt at connecting with the church leadership before doing laundry?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-10557647228972400212009-09-25T22:43:33.521-04:002009-09-25T22:43:33.521-04:00Well you would expect them to know the verse was s...Well you would expect them to know the verse was speaking of nonbelievers?<br /><br />Wow!<br />They think it's in the Bible that Brunson doesn't answer to any man. <br /><br />Yes Brunson did say it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-74043685972146371052009-09-25T22:30:54.673-04:002009-09-25T22:30:54.673-04:00STT 7:33 pm. I do not recall the two pastors who w...STT 7:33 pm. I do not recall the two pastors who went to Watchdogs house removing their sandles nor shaking the dust from them. But, do recall their leaving the paperwork and not conversing at that moment in time. Your analogy of "shaken the dust" is inappropriate and ill advised then as well as today or anytime in the future.<br /><br />What should have taken place initially was FOR THEM TO enter into the home and attempt to resolve an ISSUE that was before them, and never revealed to the Watchdog. The correct thing was for them to have gone into the house not "shake their sandles". Matt 10:14 "And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet". <br /><br />Lastly, the meaning of this verse deals with a non-believer rejecting salvation offered by a witness to the truth. Watchdog is a believer not a non-believer. Big difference here.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-22465912867074919392009-09-25T21:50:13.051-04:002009-09-25T21:50:13.051-04:00Egads Tom
They don't answer the questions. Th...Egads Tom<br /><br />They don't answer the questions. The land gift is history; Mac is a great executive; No answer to the discrepancy between his book about the lifestyles of pastors and his book; no concern about the subpoenas, the RCC comments, etc. STT was a hit man for Mac and did a "nice" job. All is hunky dory in La La Land. The best cradle to grave Christian training program- it sound like Karl Marx for Pete's sake. <br /><br />These are the old SBC crowd and this breed is swiftly dying. The membership numbers are in free fall over the USA. STT and the rest are living examples of the underlying stagnation in the SBC. Change needs to take place. The outside world is looking in and is confused. Are these pastors or executives? The problem is it seems like his apologizers are confused about what he is as well.<br /><br />To all FBC folks who have posted here: Thank you for excellent examples of hypocrisy and pathological naivete. You have a problem and it is time to face it.Deenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-60559915877459173612009-09-25T21:39:36.689-04:002009-09-25T21:39:36.689-04:00"I saw recently where I think that you mentio..."I saw recently where I think that you mentioned that you and your husband were teaching a class and either left the church or were asked to leave the church. I think I read that right."<br /><br />Louis, I am surprised at you. As a professional I would think you would copy and paste your proof that I made such a comment. <br /><br />But I do not recall ever saying my husband and I were asked to leave a church. And I do not recall ever being asked to leave any church I have attended. Perhaps you could search for the comment and post it here.<br /><br />But, I have NO doubt you have gotten along famously with every leader you have ever met in church or business. (wink)Lydiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17367390474045060624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-84193864356311343132009-09-25T20:46:35.394-04:002009-09-25T20:46:35.394-04:00At a previous job, I worked for a social services ...At a previous job, I worked for a social services agency that required a particular number of hours of training for the employees. The training was required by law because of the source of the agency’s grants. Sometimes we had to take training that was not directly related to our job to be able to reach the minimum for the year. They were not useless classes, just not always directly in line with our job description.<br /><br />I worked in an administrative area of the organization and had no contact with our clients, but I took some classes related to working with the clients to keep up my hours. One such class was a rape prevention course. This class was one of the best courses I have ever had. It talked about the percentage of men that are raped (that’s right, it does not happen to women exclusively) and the subject of date rape. I felt that this class was God’s intervention for me, as I had been date raped at the age of 17. The class was very healing for me because I had felt blame and shame for 20 years. I learned that my reactions during the act were quite typical. If only someone had given me this class as a teen, I would have been able to avoid the rape. I could not imagine someone I knew and trusted could do such a thing. I was ill equipped to deal with the situation. At the very least, this information would have healed my spirit for all of the years of pain and embarrassment.<br /><br />At the time of this training, I had a 15 year-old daughter. I passed this information along to my daughter to prevent the same thing happening to her. Being involved in leadership at that time, I thought about how important it was to arm all of our young people at FBC Jax with this self-preservation skill. I went to others higher in leadership to give them the name of the non-profit organization that would give this class to our high schoolers for free. What an opportunity we had to empower our youth.<br /><br />I was told that under no circumstances would they provide that training or even hand out information where our youth could attend this training off church property. I was told that it was too unseemly of a subject matter to be appropriate at church. For those that have never been to FBC Jax, let me tell you that there are a large number of home schooled kids where the youth groups are their only social contact and the only forum where some of these kids can get a class like this. Where else would these kids get this information?<br /><br />While I agree that the subject matter is “unseemly”, ignorance caused it to happen to me. Sometimes we have to tell our kids some horrible things about the world to keep them safe. The class of which I was speaking was given by Children’s Crisis Center – which gears the class toward the young. It is not sex education and it was not done in poor taste.<br /><br />As appalling as the church leadership’s response was to this suggestion, I found the aftermath to add insult to injury. I became persona non grata. I began to notice a shunning of sorts. People smiled and asked me how I was doing, but wanted to have no conversation. I was no longer invited to socialize among many of the women. People talked about me behind my back. <i> “This must have been the reason that my husband left me for another woman! The divorced woman that wants to discuss sexually related topics with our youth.”</i> Wow. Just. Wow. By the way – to inform the ignorant – rape is not about sex, it is about violence and control.<br /><br />During this time, Tiffany Croft was in the youth group with my kids. My question is: <br /><br /><b>Tiffany – don’t you wish the church could have given you a rape PREVENTION course to prepare you before you encountered Darrell Gilyard? </b><br /><br />I wish they had…Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-54054702825211207872009-09-25T19:33:40.288-04:002009-09-25T19:33:40.288-04:00Tom might be a victim of circumstances. The churc...Tom might be a victim of circumstances. The church leadership might have become a bit bored or frustrated with an anonymous blogger who was unhappy. <br /><br />I took some time to read some early posts of this blog and it seems that many programs that FBC leadership implemented were challenged. The watchdog wrote of the Southside Campus, the Academy, the changing of administration, Pastor Brunson accepting a land gift, and other events that are now history.<br />I really do not see anything that would lead me to the conclusion that Mac is in this for the money. I think that Mac is all for his sermons getting out over cable. Compared to some of the healthy and wealthy types I will take a Mac sermon any day. <br /><br />If anything, Mac has proven his ability to execute amid controversy. That is a very valuable executive trait. In addition to the successful role out of the Southside campus and the Academy, I would say that the church is amongst the best in training Christians from the nursery to the nursing home and everything in between. Mac has recruited some of the best pastors that you could ever want to meet, as well.<br /><br />Mac has proven himself a pastor worthy of leading a church the size of FBC. He brings a great sermon and the church continues to record souls won. His history lessons might be an indulgence, but I like them. I see many members waving and smiling and there is a general feeling of optimism and good morale. <br /><br />As best I can tell, Pastor Brunson is very approachable and personable and if I had a pastor type problem, I would feel very comfortable in speaking with him.<br /><br />I just think that it is important for people to know that there are some undeniable shortcomings. However, the good in that church is undeniable and remarkable.<br /><br />I have not seen any evidence that Tom tried to speak with anyone in leadership before launching this blog. That is troubling.<br /><br />I think that the church should just ask for the bill of your stated damages and send you a check and have a special prayer for you. I bet that if the leadership thought that would satisfy you, then probably they would have already settled and "shaken the dust." <br /><br />This is my last post. Go in peace brother.sttnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-43187566048346733902009-09-25T17:24:03.159-04:002009-09-25T17:24:03.159-04:00At first they said the blog had no credibility bec...At first they said the blog had no credibility because it was anonymous. But then they outted the man and his readership and credibility skyrocketed.<br /><br />Then they tried to slander him behind closed doors, but their "destroyed" subpoena was "found" and their deeds were exposed.<br /><br />Then they went public to discredit him in the local media to try to get people not to read his remarks, or to discount them as coming from an unstable person.<br /><br />Now they try to say that only his family supports him and about 20 people read his blog.<br /><br />The question remains: If Tom is an unstable coward with no credibility who only has the support of his family...then why the need to out him and shut him down? And why the need for a deacon's resolution? And why the changed by-laws to form a discipline committee? And why the trespass warnings against him and his wife?<br /><br />I don't see how these two positions can be logical. They should be saying how credible the blog is, how truthful Tom has been, how widely read and influential it is, and that is why he had to be stopped.<br /><br />To steal a line from Mac: Anyone trying to shut down the drummer's blog? No? I didn't think so.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com