tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post1990960899979580551..comments2024-03-07T00:24:23.674-05:00Comments on FBC Jax Watchdogs: The Great Commission Resurgence and the Mega ChurchesFBC Jax Watchdoghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comBlogger114125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-50874706311578911372009-07-24T17:06:31.092-04:002009-07-24T17:06:31.092-04:00I'm not a believer in big churches. There are ...I'm not a believer in big churches. There are a few big reasons why I believe that to be true, but anyway.... The church our family attends is 700+- members of CBA denomination, is getting too big for me.<br /><br />There's no doubt changes need to be made in many areas. One is the dearth of decent preaching . Money to missions, building for the sake of build it and they will come. I think 'christian' music, books, etc... are just over the top. The crass commercialization of anything with Christianity/Jesus in it as well. Such as: Jesus is my homeboy, Jesus pens, and other things. Soft books like Be a Better you, singers who look like they stepped from photo shoots for GQ & Cosmo are all problems. <br /><br />However, there is NOTHING wrong with a church asking for money. In fact, we should give, and give generouslyY! Paul praised churches for stepping up to help other churches, others and himself. The problem is when it's used improperly.<br /><br />Another one would be the fact that the vast majority of 'congregants' give absolutely nothing on each and every Sunday, Wednesday, etc... day.<br /><br />So, while there isn't a hard and fast 10% tithe rule, there is a rule of giving up some of what God has given us rule. <br /><br />Besides, He gave it to us. We didn't earn it, so we need to give it back to Him.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14164636296777200067noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-75303504625434211692009-07-10T16:25:25.070-04:002009-07-10T16:25:25.070-04:00"The ERLC ministers every time they proclaim ..."The ERLC ministers every time they proclaim the name of Christ and his teaching in this world."<br /><br />To legislators? Are you sure they are proclaiming Christ or fighting a culture war?<br /><br />"ERLC does not speak for each and every Baptist but does speak in the public arena as the voice of the SBC on the issues that the SBC has spoken to at the conventions."<br /><br />Which is why we still put "16 million Southern Baptists" on their literature. The real figure would be a bit embarassing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-6322453226342089372009-07-09T15:31:21.119-04:002009-07-09T15:31:21.119-04:00Anon: I thought we were done? my suggestion is t...Anon: I thought we were done? my suggestion is that if you are really interested in the distinctions between what makes an organization a lobbyist vs. a ministry (not a lobbyist) that you get a copy of that court opinion. <br /><br />The ERLC ministers every time they proclaim the name of Christ and his teaching in this world.<br /><br />ERLC does not speak for each and every Baptist but does speak in the public arena as the voice of the SBC on the issues that the SBC has spoken to at the conventions.<br /><br />LouisAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-8814840260837415082009-07-09T14:08:52.725-04:002009-07-09T14:08:52.725-04:00"ERLC does state the denomination's offic..."ERLC does state the denomination's official position on moral and church/state issues."<br /><br />How do they do this. <br /><br />And since when does the SBC, who is 'cooperative' in missions, have official positions that represent every single member? Since the CR.<br /><br />The point is, we do not need the ELRC. I think we have ample proof it does not work, anyway. Proof in Obama as President, Pelosi as speaker and on and on. How many SBC'ers voted for Obama? <br /><br />I am sure Mark Sanford agreed with many of the ELRC's positions.<br /><br />The point is, we need to get out of the culture war and politics.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-46098048025558409112009-07-09T14:00:59.934-04:002009-07-09T14:00:59.934-04:00Ok, Louis, so the ELRC 'ministers'.
To w...Ok, Louis, so the ELRC 'ministers'. <br /><br />To whom? <br /><br />Are they trying to affect policy?<br /><br />And who do they represent?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-78458126408203495692009-07-09T11:11:23.853-04:002009-07-09T11:11:23.853-04:00Anon:
That was snide on my part. Sorry.
I do th...Anon:<br /><br />That was snide on my part. Sorry.<br /><br />I do think that we should speak accurately about what our agencies do, that's all.<br /><br />ERLC does state the denomination's official position on moral and church/state issues.<br /><br />That is not lobbying. But I know what you mean to say when you say that.<br /><br />LouisAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-34120314024851197822009-07-09T08:40:59.331-04:002009-07-09T08:40:59.331-04:00Anon:
If you are not willing to take, or even rev...Anon:<br /><br />If you are not willing to take, or even review, a court's determination after a full hearing of all the facts, there is nothing I am sure that can be said to change your mind.<br /><br />Let's see. Should I believe, um, a court (where both sides - ERLC and Washington DC presented their cases) or should I believe some unidentified guy on an internet blog who shows no familiarity with the facts and has so made up his mind that he won't even look at the court's opinion?<br /><br />Hum, let me see...<br /><br />This is so hard...<br /><br />They are both equally credible...<br /><br />LouisAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-61015796677127464942009-07-08T21:09:07.868-04:002009-07-08T21:09:07.868-04:00"You may not realize this but ERLC is not a l..."You may not realize this but ERLC is not a lobbying organization. That issue was actually tried in Washington because of ERLC's property tax exemption. If they were found to be a lobbying group, there would be no exemption. If they were found to be a ministry, they were entitled to the exemption.<br /><br />After a full briefing and hearing on the matter, ERLC was determined to be a ministry, and thus, Washington, D.C. could not remove its tax exempt status."<br /><br />Your hair is splitting, Louis. And so is the court's.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-44014480794964192552009-07-08T15:57:34.069-04:002009-07-08T15:57:34.069-04:00Anon:
You may not realize this but ERLC is not a ...Anon:<br /><br />You may not realize this but ERLC is not a lobbying organization. That issue was actually tried in Washington because of ERLC's property tax exemption. If they were found to be a lobbying group, there would be no exemption. If they were found to be a ministry, they were entitled to the exemption.<br /><br />After a full briefing and hearing on the matter, ERLC was determined to be a ministry, and thus, Washington, D.C. could not remove its tax exempt status.<br /><br />We might argue about whether you think Dr. Land and ERLC have represented the moral concerns of Southern Baptists well.<br /><br />But we should at least agree on the facts determined by a civil court.<br /><br />It is true that ERLC speaks on public policy issues, but that does not make them a lobbying organization.<br /><br />I am sorry that I don't have a court citation for you. ERLC may have one if it was put in the reporter.<br /><br />LouisAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-29868586132772620132009-07-08T15:50:53.358-04:002009-07-08T15:50:53.358-04:00"persecution should ever come to the church, ..."persecution should ever come to the church, I doubt you will find many preachers that will hang around for it. They probably will take the money and run. "<br /><br />I don't think so. I think we will see much more compromise than running away. The church has become wedded to the state through political activism. both conservative and liberal are guilty of this. Why else would the SBC fund the ELRC? Why do we need lobbyist in DC?<br /><br />We are closer to Rome than we might think.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-13789893221138424752009-07-08T13:09:10.820-04:002009-07-08T13:09:10.820-04:00If and when the tax status is changed, I believe w...If and when the tax status is changed, I believe we can blame the preachers that have left their first love, their calling to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ. If persecution should ever come to the church, I doubt you will find many preachers that will hang around for it. They probably will take the money and run. As they can't answer questions concerning money or their ministry now. And they think they are under some type of persecution now. Some preachers have been led to believe they must "survive" in a business world. So they stop trusting God to lead them. They start listening to some of their fellow preachers who have deserted their calling and have put their ministry into the hands of men and FAIL. So no wonder they feel persectued, they are out of their calling. They will never be truly happy or at peace, because they have let God down and then the people. Money and pride of place will never be enough to satisfy their conscience. This analysis does not include all preachers, only the ones that fit it. There are still some good God called preachers that are faithful.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-49797962511327398552009-07-08T13:04:39.325-04:002009-07-08T13:04:39.325-04:00"Since this site is involved with a particula..."Since this site is involved with a particular church and the debates/practices and disputes regarding that, I doubt that this site will become a hub for that reform. (no offense intended)."<br /><br />I think I understand your meaning but seriously disagree. Real internal reform always comes from without usually as a result of a crisis. Rarely from those who benefit or have been part of the system. Many times they make efforts that look like reform (Such as GCR as an example of reforming the SBC bureaucracy) but are part of maintaining or even saving the system.<br /><br />In this case, a small exodus is taking place from the institutional church. I am meeting more and more folks who are questioning their own offerings as tax deductions and just giving to those brothers and sisters in need or personally supporting missions<br /> without the tax incentive. They are also leaving the institutional church and seeking a true Body of Christ. <br /><br />I am not saying the institutional church is dead as an organization <br /> but it has symptoms of a terminal disease when it comes to being the Body of Christ.<br /><br />There may be some big names leading the defense in politics and the church, but I am not so sure how influential they are anymore. There are many more Mark Sanfords out there than we can imagine. And the Richard Lands and Al Mohler's are not as influential as they were just 10 years ago.<br /><br /><br />MattAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-77615182931769681812009-07-08T11:19:58.448-04:002009-07-08T11:19:58.448-04:00Matt:
Thanks for the response. We are running ou...Matt:<br /><br />Thanks for the response. We are running out of room here so I'll probably leave off.<br /><br />I would like to see sites such as Mark Dever's IX Marks site and other places begin to talk about openness in finances. <br /><br />There may be other people who could take that up.<br /><br />Since this site is involved with a particular church and the debates/practices and disputes regarding that, I doubt that this site will become a hub for that reform. (no offense intended).<br /><br />But there are other sites that were not born of controversy that may have broader appeal (again, no offense intended) to more people.<br /><br />I believe that this issue has been around for a while in Baptist life (for all I know, it is the same in the large churches of other denominations).<br /><br />I am going to give this some thought.<br /><br />Take care.<br /><br />LouisAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-80420114761253079992009-07-08T11:11:29.419-04:002009-07-08T11:11:29.419-04:00"I respect you very much, but I think that we..."I respect you very much, but I think that we would be in a very bad situation in this country if we let our frustrations about the openness (or lack thereof) on the part of some religious organizations should be a basis for removing either the income tax exemption or the property tax exemption."<br /><br />Thanks, Louis but I think I have not communicated well at all. I am NOT advocating the removal of tax exemptions as government policy.<br /><br /> I am stating that it will more than likely happen in the future. And there are many reasons for this which include negative perceptions about religious institution but also the rise of Islam. We forget that the mega as institution is only about 30 years old. Like old Europe, the "church" is viewed by many, and rightly so, as a rich and powerful institution with many tax advantages.<br /><br />Right or wrong, I think this is going to happen and quite frankly, we deserve it. <br /><br /> I do not think a true Body of Christ will fight it if that happens. Most organizations with a steeple call themselves a church but are not. I also made the point that this move would help clean up the Bride as a form of mild persecution which hits the pocketbook. <br /><br />Ironically, the inner city churches will be hurt the least in any move like this. Most cities already have tax exemptions for any organizations that are willing to locate in those areas. <br /><br />MattAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-34145498518064561782009-07-08T10:56:29.977-04:002009-07-08T10:56:29.977-04:00"I am not at all bothered that the Catholics ..."I am not at all bothered that the Catholics own 1/8th of some city. I think that property being held by private parties (including non-profits) is what makes the US free, as much or more than the right of free speech or to vote."<br /><br />In some locations, schools are funded by property taxes. <br /><br />I am not sure how large groups like the Archdiocese owning masses of property makes me more free. I would like it best carved up and owned by individuals. I would feel more free. (wink)<br /><br />Do you know why there are so many churches on Hilton Head Island? When Charles Fraser was developing the Island he made free land available for churches. I contrast this to the site we found for a mega church and trying to keep it quiet because the land would double if they knew who was inquiring. So, we used third parties to make inquiries. <br /><br /><br />Louis, Any price is worth paying if it means a pure and spotless Bride. <br /><br />MattAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-40108058443559184832009-07-08T10:09:20.153-04:002009-07-08T10:09:20.153-04:00"As a matter of fact, starting a 'church&..."As a matter of fact, starting a 'church' has been a refuge of scoundrels "<br /><br /><br />Matt no truer statement could you have uttered. As a matter of fact were can a charlatan go were he can accumulate lots of money with literally no accountablility;..Ahhhhhhhhhhh I know:<br /><br /> "THE CHURCH"Bro./Pastor Rod H.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-65908991916929242982009-07-08T10:01:14.400-04:002009-07-08T10:01:14.400-04:00When my people (Christians) who are called by my n...When my people (Christians) who are called by my name (Christ) shall humble themselves, then will I hear from Heaven and heal their land. God is waiting on Christians no ONW else to humble themselves. Possibly this administration and the recession will help stir up Christians to call upon the Lord for help and not themselves. Then God will do something, but not until THEN!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-54971330473314237552009-07-08T08:49:44.327-04:002009-07-08T08:49:44.327-04:00The property tax issue is a state and local matter...The property tax issue is a state and local matter and not related at all to the IRC or income that the church receives.<br /><br />Property tax is based simply on the objective market value of the property, and does not require the government peering into the accounts, budgets and income of the church. I am still opposed to removing this exemption, but I will admit that it is not as much related to the intrusive nature of government involvement. But the First Amendment, in my opinion, still plays a role here.<br /><br />Property tax exemptions have been around forever. They also usually affect not only religious, but non-religious ventures- colleges, medical facilities, soup kitchens, homeless shelters, all sorts of non-profits. Citizens have determined that these ventures are important to society and have granted exemptions from property tax. The property has to be exclusively used for the exempt purpose, so the non-profits have to pay property tax on properties that are unrelated to their non-profit mission. In our state, for example, churches have to pay property tax on residential properties that are held for use by missionaries when on furlough. So, in our state, the exemption is pretty narrowly drawn.<br /><br />Again, without getting into the First Amendment issue that I have already mentioned, let me say from a practical standpoint that removing property tax exemptions for non-profits would have a huge impact on society. Of course, it might be unconstitutional to remove on the exemptions for churches, but not other non-profits. But if all the non-profit exemptions were removed, many churches in inner cities where property is expensive, but attendance is small due to the declining surrounding residential communities would be immediately bankrupt. Churches, synagogues and mosques all over Manhattan, for example, would go broke instantly. The same would be said of other types of non-profits.<br /><br />I am not at all bothered that the Catholics own 1/8th of some city. I think that property being held by private parties (including non-profits) is what makes the US free, as much or more than the right of free speech or to vote.<br /><br />And again, the property tax exemption was not at all instituted in connection with the openness of the non-profit. They are simply unrelated matters.<br /><br />I respect you very much, but I think that we would be in a very bad situation in this country if we let our frustrations about the openness (or lack thereof) on the part of some religious organizations should be a basis for removing either the income tax exemption or the property tax exemption.<br /><br />Again, the remedy is to help educate people not to give to organizations that won't tell them where their money is going. That will cause more openness than anything, as people stop giving over time to the organizations that don't provide information.<br /><br />So, I am with you 100% in preaching on openness. It should be done often, not against people or groups in particular, but as a fundamental of the church.<br /><br />LouisAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-53508991615905705182009-07-08T08:49:27.830-04:002009-07-08T08:49:27.830-04:00There are 2 types of taxes now being discussed her...There are 2 types of taxes now being discussed here. At first, we were talking about 501(c)(3), which is an IRC provision related to income taxes. As stated, churches pay taxes on unrelated business income. The question is whether churches should also pay income taxes on money donated to them by people who have already paid taxes on that money.<br /><br />I believe it is very dangerous for the government to have access to church financial information. Other non-profits have this exemption too (scientific and educational entities - e.g. Harvard, Mayo Clinic etc.). You are right that the reporting requirements are different. None of these other organizations have the role that the church has - to speak truth to society. Sometimes the government might not like that truth.<br /><br />The 18th and 19th centuries had some of the biggest religious frauds in the U.S. that ever walked the planet. The founders were quite aware of the abuse and potential for abuse, and yet provided that the state would not establish religion and would not prevent its free exercise. That is why churches have been exempt from taxation, even preceding the adoption of the IRC in about 1917 (I think).<br /><br />Also, the reporting to members requirement (which you and I agree about) is not really connected to IRC enforcement. I know why you would like it to be - to force openness. But the IRC and the exemption for churches is not related at all to openness. Those are 2 different issues. Some religions may have rules about financial matters and openness. I don't know. But debating the removal of the IRC exemption should stand on its own, and not be connected to whether churches are open enough with their donors.<br /><br />Again, there is a remedy here. Don't give to a place that his not open and transparent.<br /><br />continued...<br /><br />LouisAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-87813056894569973662009-07-08T08:23:50.909-04:002009-07-08T08:23:50.909-04:00WD,
In response to your earlier comment,
"...WD,<br /><br />In response to your earlier comment, <br /><br />"However, I am somewhat skeptical of this, because Mac is a very, very close personal friend of Maurilio, and I believe Maurilio and his company were sole-sourced for the services he provides and it was not a competitive bid process."<br /><br />When Mac came, Maurilio came with him. Staff buzz was that 'some guy whose name they couldn't remember or pronounce' was now going to be guy #2 for quite a while, at least until Mac's manuevers (his removing 'The 3 Kings') was completed.<br /><br />My first meeting with him in the room was way back at the start with Rodney in charge of the meeting. It was an 'artistic' meeting regarding the upcoming services.<br /><br />No bidding. He was in Mac's suitcase when Mac unpacked.Former FBC Insiderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14110678455091719881noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-69063489388007257272009-07-08T08:14:37.747-04:002009-07-08T08:14:37.747-04:00I agree with you Matt. The "rotten apples&quo...I agree with you Matt. The "rotten apples" have spoiled the barrel. The "financial abusers" within the churches have brought this upon themselves, if indeed, churches lose their tax protections. Some of the most arrogant people I know are yes men behind the pastor and leadership. They have not the spiritual welfare of the church in mind, but the welfare of the preacher, their position as yes men, and in SAVING FACE for the destruction they have brought on the church. I had no idea how unspiritual people in a church could be.They have brought it upon themselves and indeed us. We are losing freedoms in every area of our lives daily because of "abusers" on BOTH sides of issues.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-32364903222654358732009-07-08T02:08:30.695-04:002009-07-08T02:08:30.695-04:00"It's just that history has shown the abu..."It's just that history has shown the abuses committed by governments, which have the power of compulsory taxation and the power to seize, imprison and kill by force of law (which the church does not have) are the greater powers and can result in damages unlike anything a modern church can inflict. That's what our founders were concerned about. They saw the potential for abuse on both sides, but figured that the abuse that could be committed by the sovereign was great, and that the church needed protection from that."<br /><br />I understand your position. I am arguing purely from a spiriual position. I can remember standing with a friend in a high rise office building while he showed me a site for a new hospital. He was on the board. He mentioned causually that the land was owned by the Archdiocese. I asked how much land they owned in that city and was astonished to find they owned almost 1/8th of the land in the large metro area. As I looked into this more, I was astounded at the amount of land the Catholic church owns in the USA.<br /><br />Mosques are popping up all over the US. Brand new ones. Also with the same property tax exemption. <br /><br />Where is all this leading us and why the property tax exemption? <br /><br />Listen to what Judge Renquist, a conservative, wrote in Regan v. Taxation where the court upheld that tax exemption was equivalent to a tax subsidy:<br /><br />Both tax exemptions and tax deductibility are a form of subsidy that is administered through the tax system. A tax exemption has much the same effect as a cash grant to the organization of the amount of tax it would have to pay on its income.<br /><br />So, what does this mean? Does it mean that the tax exempion, a form of subsidy, is a clear violation of the establishment clause of the First Amendment? <br /><br />What does this precedent mean to the future? I don't know. But when I look at the vast amount of land owned by religious organizations in this country, I see potential untapped dollars for the state. I think it is only a matter of time.<br /><br />I also disagree with you that we must fight this. Why? When the populus looks upon this tax exemption as a subsidy, then they will decide that churches must comply with other government policies or lose their tax exemption. Many will not see it as a right but a priviledge we must pay for. I see the opposite of what you see in this matter. Our protection will cost us in more costly ways.<br /><br />From a spiritual perspective, I do not see we have a leg to stand on. We cannot seek protection from the government because we are already protected with a tax exemption that fills our coffers and quite frankly, our standing in many communities is not exactly above reproach. I am speaking here generally when thinking of the Catholic church scandals, the high salaries of ministers and other scandals coming out of the apostate churches. These hurt us all.<br /><br />Another place they will strike is tax deduction for donors. For most non profits it is required that they make financial reports open to inspection from donors. Churches, specifically, are exempted from this requirement. Which is why you do not see churches on the Navigator site.<br /><br /> You want to keep the tax deduction for offerings? Then open the books to donors. No more high secret salaries and other revenue streams. No more wasteful spending like we see in so many mega's.<br /><br />Spiritually speaking, this could be the best thing that ever happened to the church. It would have the effect of cleaning house. God is in control. How we respond to these threats will decide who gets the Glory: God or man?<br /><br />MattAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-84618629125087849392009-07-07T23:13:13.324-04:002009-07-07T23:13:13.324-04:00Matt:
As I said, it's not that the church sho...Matt:<br /><br />As I said, it's not that the church should be afraid of anything that it is doing.<br /><br />And, it's not that we should ignore abuse and fraud. it does exist.<br /><br />It's just that history has shown the abuses committed by governments, which have the power of compulsory taxation and the power to seize, imprison and kill by force of law (which the church does not have) are the greater powers and can result in damages unlike anything a modern church can inflict. That's what our founders were concerned about. They saw the potential for abuse on both sides, but figured that the abuse that could be committed by the sovereign was great, and that the church needed protection from that.<br /><br />But I do respect your opinion on this, and the context that you are coming from.<br /><br />LouisAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-73256320793416527062009-07-07T22:17:10.809-04:002009-07-07T22:17:10.809-04:00Is FBCJ really sending out cards asking people why...Is FBCJ really sending out cards asking people why they left? I wish. But I am afraid a card will not get the job done. They may get back more information than they want. Volumes actually. I think most people left for many and varied reasons. They really should save the postage and read the blog. Most of the reasons are posted here. Also, this may be a way of finding out who the bloggers are, if they can identify a complaint on the card and match it with the same complaint on the blog. Can you tell I don't trust anyone? But I don't think they really care why people left, or they would have been more concerned about the people before now. And they would not have done so much to upset the people. What good would it do to tell them anything? They won't do anything differently. They are beyond answering any criticisms. Now, if the money stops coming in, then they may have to come down a step or to and actually deal with the people giving the money. My experience so far has been that the members still there don't want to deal with anything, just keep the "party" going. It's socially necessary for them. How sad for the cause of Christ!! Has it occured to anyone that we are talking about a church? A church that is supposed to be in existance to lead the lost to the saving Grace of Jesus Christ. What has happened here?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-80581778461695330662009-07-07T21:27:30.302-04:002009-07-07T21:27:30.302-04:00Baptist Reunification?
http://www.baptiststandar...Baptist Reunification?<br /><br /><br />http://www.baptiststandard.com/index.php?option=com_myblog&show=Baptist-reunification-.html&Itemid=114Bible Believernoreply@blogger.com