tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post2165069593397175850..comments2024-03-23T22:54:58.661-04:00Comments on FBC Jax Watchdogs: Is Our Problem "Legalism" or "Hypocrisy"?FBC Jax Watchdoghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comBlogger49125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-73970180376636711922008-04-27T14:58:00.000-04:002008-04-27T14:58:00.000-04:00Sheril - he was given the option to correspond by ...Sheril - he was given the option to correspond by email or the concerns would be blogged about. ONLY after he stated that he would not respond to anonymous emails, and that all emails must have their names on them, did the first of the FBC blogs start up. He chose to allow the concerns to be blogged about rather than correspond with anon emailers. You have to respect his conviction on that. I certainly do, and I am willing to honor that by continuing to make my concerns known on this blog.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-75885643447066749882008-04-26T21:32:00.000-04:002008-04-26T21:32:00.000-04:00Voice of Reason - The pastor chose this format!? ...Voice of Reason - The pastor chose this format!? How did that come about? Just curious.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-68118978522441328722008-04-26T14:10:00.000-04:002008-04-26T14:10:00.000-04:00Voice of Reason says:I would like to comment on a ...Voice of Reason says:<BR/><BR/>I would like to comment on a few posts above:<BR/><BR/>First, it is great to hear that this blog is actually helping to REACH people for Christ, as anon april 25, 4:59 testifies to, and is not driving people away as Sheril thinks may happen. I think I would want to go to a church where people care enough to hold their pastor accountable. Otherwise, they can go to Joel Osteen's church and give to Benny Hinn and others like him.<BR/><BR/>Next, I would say to Sheril - we are praying and thousands are meeting and silently waiting on God as you suggest. I agree that is the best way to get things changed. However, a much smaller percentage of folks have done that and ALSO tried to directly discuss this with the pastor. When they were ignored or dismissed, they sent emails. When those were criticized and they were blacklisted, others tried anonymous emails. When that didn't work, the pastor chose, YES, it was HIS choosing, to have us blog here instead of correspond privately by email. So we are just doing what we have to do. I know it is not the best way to have to discuss these things, but try reasoning with a bull in a china shop who is greedy, arrogant, stubborn and unloving and you will see why the blog is necessary. Trust us on this.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-9751685078417237982008-04-26T10:21:00.000-04:002008-04-26T10:21:00.000-04:00Dear Watchdog:Thanks for your response to my quest...Dear Watchdog:<BR/><BR/>Thanks for your response to my question! I look forward to your future topics. Regardless of all the negativity you receive on your blog I encourage you to stick to your guns because I think you are definitely on to something!<BR/><BR/>SBC Guy in IllinoisAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-54469631156080103962008-04-26T07:47:00.000-04:002008-04-26T07:47:00.000-04:00SBC Guy: still am a member of FBC Jax, still love ...SBC Guy: still am a member of FBC Jax, still love FBC Jax because of the people at FBC Jax and I think the church is worth fighting for at this point. I'm sorely disappointed in the leadership of the church - pastor and lay leaders and even the deacon body that is refusing to hold Mac accountable. <BR/><BR/>I know that people are sick of hearing of the land deal that Mac Brunson got, but he and the church leadership have got to come clean with his congregation about the circumstances surrounding that gift and construction of his million dollar home. In the coming weeks I'll be returning to that issue and the problem of high living of pastors in our city, including Mac Brunson.FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-62134018553064333582008-04-25T23:24:00.000-04:002008-04-25T23:24:00.000-04:00Dear Watchdog:I have followed your blog nearly fro...Dear Watchdog:<BR/><BR/>I have followed your blog nearly from its inception and as a life-long Southern Baptist currently residing in the midwest (where nothing remotely exciting happens in SBC life), I have to say your blog has certainly provided some very interesting reading.<BR/><BR/>I was curious about one thing. Are you still an active, attending member of FBC Jacksonville? It sounds like to me that you are totally fed up with your current pastoral leadership and it begs the question why you are there if you feel so negatively about your current leadership.<BR/><BR/>I'm not condemning you in any way because I actually applaud your efforts to ferret out the truth where it need be. I was just wondering if you were still there. If I'm not being too bold to ask you such a question.<BR/><BR/>Blessings. . .SBC Guy in IllinoisAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-51609820874961677182008-04-25T16:36:00.000-04:002008-04-25T16:36:00.000-04:00One more thing...just so you don't think I avoided...One more thing...just so you don't think I avoided the question...<BR/>The "further expansion" was money given to cover any needs the church further needed. Not a further expansion of the church itself, but a further expansion of the work FBC had already done for the Rev. Jones.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-36799170311979841202008-04-25T16:33:00.000-04:002008-04-25T16:33:00.000-04:00To further clarify what I said about how Dr. Bruns...To further clarify what I said about how Dr. Brunson & FBC helped Reverend Jones...<BR/>For starters, Pastor did say he would help get the church back in a building...thats exactly what he did. He provided teams, like I said, to help clean up immediately after the fire, then to install the A/C, that FBC gave them at the request of the Pastor. Also, certain members of the church, after being approached by the Pastor and others on staff, donated the lumber for roofing, electrical equipment and engineers (which I forgot to mention in my last post).<BR/>So, did the Pastor fund it himself? No & its ridiculous to assume he would....understand that when he made the promise, he made it as a Pastor...inferring that the CHURCH would do help...not him singularly.<BR/>In addition, there were other churches who also pledged to help Rev. Jones...so simply because his church still has needs, doesn't point to an FBC or Brunson failure....we did quite a large amount & the Pastor kept his promise and greatly helped Rev. Jones. <BR/>Yes, I do know details, I was on a team that gladly went to the church to help.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-70252000374672022892008-04-25T11:35:00.000-04:002008-04-25T11:35:00.000-04:00Anon 4:59 amThanks for sharing information on this...Anon 4:59 am<BR/><BR/>Thanks for sharing information on this! I'll take you at your word.<BR/><BR/>Since you have responded and obviously must know details, maybe you would clarify a few things. <BR/><BR/>What exactly did Mac commit our church to do for Rev Jones? When he brought him up to the platform, unless I'm mistaken he said our church was going to help him get back into his building...or was it just the A/C and manual labor?<BR/><BR/>Did the church provide the A/C, or did the church help locate someone who would provide the A/C?<BR/><BR/>You said Mac "also gave the church money for further expansion". Did Mac do this himself, or did FBC Jax do this? What does that mean "for further expansion"? Rev Jones doesn't need to "expand", he needs to get moved into his burned out building, no? So did we give funds, or did Mac give funds to help him get Rev Jones back into the building or not?FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-56073011888094757092008-04-25T09:41:00.000-04:002008-04-25T09:41:00.000-04:00On a side note, is anyone aware of a chat room whe...On a side note, is anyone aware of a chat room where people who grew-up at FBC Jax are connecting? I'd love to be able to catch-up with people in that manner.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-6164517789260758192008-04-25T09:01:00.000-04:002008-04-25T09:01:00.000-04:00FBC Jax Supporters, I have never done this before ...FBC Jax Supporters, I have never done this before but after reading this one I must repsond.<BR/><BR/>When anyone compares Mac to the likes of Hinn and Swaggart it shows they haven't a clue.<BR/><BR/>When someone is attacked for supporting their Pastor they are the ones due a award in this enviroment.<BR/><BR/>The Blind Dawg will be judged for what they are doing here, Mac will be the only judged as your pastor.<BR/><BR/>The Dawg and his puppies all need to lighten up and get to God's Biz. No matter what they say this ain't it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-45483070028769030512008-04-25T04:59:00.000-04:002008-04-25T04:59:00.000-04:00I have to set the record straight on this one....Y...I have to set the record straight on this one....You criticize Dr. Brunson for not keeping his word to Rev. Jones concerning the rebuilding of his church...The truth is, Dr. Brunson DID keep his word. FBC JAX gave them the AC/heating system, the lumber for roofing, teams for helping with the tear down/rebuild AND sent teams to walk through the neighborhood praying over every house & going door to door inviting people to come to the church.<BR/>Dr. Brunson kept his word & did as much as he promised...not only did he do all that, he also gave the church money for further expansion.<BR/>Before I go,....this may sound weird, but this site has brought 4 co-workers of mine into the church. I mentioned to them that I had heard of this site, they checked it out....came down to the church 2 weeks ago and absolutely loved it. They came this past Sunday & are telling me they will come again this coming Sunday. <BR/>What you are using to "inform"...tear down...Gods using to pull people to the church!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-16779452930116431152008-04-24T22:28:00.000-04:002008-04-24T22:28:00.000-04:00Maybe Mac does not tell us when he is not going to...Maybe Mac does not tell us when he is not going to be in church so we wont be able to find out that he slammed us again at another churchAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-82973705153046129472008-04-24T19:27:00.000-04:002008-04-24T19:27:00.000-04:00Glad I got your Attention...There are alot of Chur...Glad I got your Attention...There are alot of Churches FBC members have gone too. Gene Hodges is Mucic Director at a church on the Westside. Leanna is singing GREAT!<BR/>Theres wonderful Southern Gospel Music played that warms the heart and touches the soul, Prepares the heart to listen to the WORD.....thats what FBC ONCE had, but never again. We need to be prayed up and look up and see what has HAPPENED to our CHURCH!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-54610541116673156402008-04-24T18:39:00.000-04:002008-04-24T18:39:00.000-04:00I agree with other people that have posted if you ...I agree with other people that have posted if you are not happy leave it does not matter who you are. You need to find a Church were you can worship God and not be looking for something else to put on here and slam Mac. I also feel that your putting this on the internet is wrong because there could be people that may come to church and get saved. But because they read something like this, they could say I do not want to be around anybody that is like that. And think that all Christian are like this. That could mean they would never become a Christian. I feel like you could talk to members with out putting it on the internet and if this bothers you so much maybe you need to start praying more and posting less. Put it in God's hand who can do something about this (if it bothers you so much). I just recently checked this because I was hoping this was deleted. I will not check this again for a very long time. I have spent time praying about this and I am not trying to be mean, I just think this is wrong.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-80263640353849388972008-04-24T18:18:00.000-04:002008-04-24T18:18:00.000-04:00I was at the worship service Sunday night at South...I was at the worship service Sunday night at Southpoint Baptist Church and saw Rodney. (He and the family are adjusting well to Atlanta, by the way.) I read where someone thinks "a lot of FBC people have joined Southside [sic]" At Southpoint, that is not the case. My folks did join because they have physical limitations that makes walking a couple of blocks between Sunday School and church and again to their car too difficult. I just asked my mother if she's noticed others who've joined or are visiting from FBC and she couldn't think of any. There were a few who came to see Rodney. <BR/><BR/>I'm not sure where the hell fire remark came from. Perhaps I need to read back a little more, but my question is where does it says to air out church issues for all to see. As I mentioned, I was looking-up the FBC site on Yahoo when this blog appeared. We all know how so many people love to tear down the church. As Dr. Vines said when you tell people you go to First Baptist watch out because you'll either get a kiss or a punch in the face. Why then give outsiders ammunition? I read the Folio Magazine article several months ago. Too bad they didn't read this blog. Maybe there will be a new FBC bashing article if they do. <BR/><BR/>I understand the frustrations of the congregation. I know it isn't the old First Baptist, but God can still work in the church and He sure dosen't need this blog to do it for Him. I suggest people meeting and praying for the pastor. "Where two or more are gathered together in My name . . ." you know the rest. Mrs. Lindsay did this with Dr. Lindsay when she felt he was wrong about something, and the Lord worked from there. <BR/><BR/>I believe the Lord LOVES First Baptist Church Jacksonville. We (I still feel like a member) are to be responsible for our own actions and God WILL deal with the rest. <BR/><BR/>I love FBC Jacksonville and the congregation. I've prayed for FBC more than my current church, I must admit. Please reconsider this forum and find another way to connect. Have prayer groups where you pray for this town, your Sunday School teachers, your fellow members and the pastors. So long as you don't pray for something like boils or disease upon the pastor, (I'm joking I don't think anyone would really do that.) I believe God will honor your prayers in His way.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-21265029433193678412008-04-24T16:01:00.000-04:002008-04-24T16:01:00.000-04:00Anon 2:32 - relax. I wasn't making a case for anyt...Anon 2:32 - relax. I wasn't making a case for anything. Just stating that Mac's level of accessibility is of no concern to me at all, EXCEPT that so many of his defenders like to claim that he is so accessible, while those other pastors (can't remember their names now) were so unaccessible. So when I hear that perhaps he is not as accessible as some say, I am not at all surprised.FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-50880820018046626502008-04-24T14:35:00.000-04:002008-04-24T14:35:00.000-04:00Anon 12:55,many pastors have people on staff and f...Anon 12:55,<BR/><BR/>many pastors have people on staff and from the congregation who can get inside quicker than others. Deacon chair, trustees...<BR/><BR/>I'm not sure about big donors, you would have to give more info on this to make it valid.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-76090632329419447942008-04-24T14:32:00.000-04:002008-04-24T14:32:00.000-04:00WD,Confront the defenders who make the statements ...WD,<BR/><BR/>Confront the defenders who make the statements and ask them to show proof of his accessibility. Don't take their word on what Mac is or is not and then use their words to criticize Mac. Criticize the ones who defend, that is where the criticism lies.<BR/><BR/>Now, if Mac has said he was accessible, then show that and make your case.<BR/><BR/>Using his defenders to make your case is really pointless.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-4307434865065007092008-04-24T13:59:00.000-04:002008-04-24T13:59:00.000-04:00Anon - don't know where Mac was Sunday. He didn't ...Anon - don't know where Mac was Sunday. He didn't tell us Sunday morning that he would not be there, he just wasn't there.<BR/><BR/>Can you please stop being so "legalistic" by expecting the pastor to be there Sunday? ;)<BR/><BR/>Maybe he was at that concert with Rodney Brooks while us legalists showing up for church Sunday night heard a good Bible sermon from the Associate Legalist Pastor Jim Smyrl.<BR/><BR/>What church was Rodney at Sunday night? This is the first I've heard of it? And many of our members have gone there? Which church? You really have my attention now!FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-50024686075195864252008-04-24T13:54:00.000-04:002008-04-24T13:54:00.000-04:00Hey, Where was Mack last Sunday night? Heard half ...Hey, Where was Mack last Sunday night? Heard half the Church was empty. Where does he go so much, and how do we let this man get away with not being in the puplit where the PASTOR should be.<BR/>I heard half of FBC was at a concert, at Southside Church with Rev. Rodney Brooks. Also was told alot of our members are now attending that Church.........God Please Listen To Your Children Praying, were suffering. Please God put a protection over Firt Baptist Church. We Need You Lord.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-48387095824914603712008-04-24T12:55:00.000-04:002008-04-24T12:55:00.000-04:00Anon 11:49 from Dallas here.I agree that a pastor ...Anon 11:49 from Dallas here.<BR/><BR/>I agree that a pastor cannot possibly meet with every church member of a church the size of FBCJ or FBCD, or he would never do anything else. I guess my issue is that it seems, at least in my experience, that he was avoiding meeting with people who were going to raise concerns about how certain finances were being handled. (And I'm not talking about peanuts here -- rather six figure expenses with absolutely no oversight or accountability.) Yet he had no problem meeting with people who were big donors and did not question the use of the donated funds.<BR/><BR/>The accessibility issue is just evidence of a pattern of shutting out those who raise concerns and want explanations, and surrounding himself with an inner circle of affirmers.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-69590765310321957152008-04-24T12:44:00.000-04:002008-04-24T12:44:00.000-04:00Anon 12:42 - good point. I think this only comes u...Anon 12:42 - good point. I think this only comes up because one of the defenses of Mac Brunson is that he is so incredibly "accessbile" as compared to the "previous pastors", as though Mac is a "man of the people".FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-444923870170512592008-04-24T12:42:00.000-04:002008-04-24T12:42:00.000-04:00Is the pastor required, biblically, to be accessib...Is the pastor required, biblically, to be accessible? From the standpoint of FBCD and FBCJ, when would the pastors time to study and prepare become a priority for the church?<BR/><BR/>The church should have deacons and other staff to do much of the people connection. Acts 6, comes to mind.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-41213547679043454202008-04-24T11:49:00.000-04:002008-04-24T11:49:00.000-04:00WD - As a member at FBC Dallas, I attempted to set...WD - As a member at FBC Dallas, I attempted to set up a meeting with Dr. Brunson while he was pastor there. I contacted his assistant and said I would like to meet with him, and asked what his availability was. I was informed that he was "booked for at least two months" and, like Discouraged, I indicated that I would still like to go ahead and set up a meeting. His assistant then told me that she would have to get back with me on a specific date and time that would work for the pastor, and I left my phone number with her so she could let me know of the arrangements. After several subsequent phone calls to follow up, I finally gave up. I never received a return phone call, even to say "he's too busy". <BR/><BR/>I am aware of one other member who had a very similar experience, and was eventually shipped off to meet with one of the associate pastors because Dr. Brunson didn't have time to visit with him. However, I am also aware of several more well-off church members who seemingly had no problem setting up lunch meetings with Dr. Brunson, sometimes even the day of the meeting. There was definitely an "inner circle" who had access, but beyond that it seemed that most were shut out.<BR/><BR/>I realize this is anecdotal, but I am simply confirming that at least some members in Dallas experienced the same type of inacessibility that Discouraged experienced recently -- it's another ongoing pattern of Dr. Brunson's.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com