tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post2722850879267297067..comments2024-03-23T22:54:58.661-04:00Comments on FBC Jax Watchdogs: "After the Service, the Coffee Is on Mac" (If He's Available)FBC Jax Watchdoghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comBlogger52125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-55629048422384770722008-06-22T15:11:00.000-04:002008-06-22T15:11:00.000-04:00you gives are make me laugh... and thats sad...you...you gives are make me laugh... and thats sad...you've never grown up lolAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-51681033427922253872008-06-20T01:57:00.000-04:002008-06-20T01:57:00.000-04:00Hey WD, About St. John's homes for teaching on Sun...Hey WD, About St. John's homes for teaching on Sunday night, has anyone thought about who would own these homes? I heard the Church was building homes in that area, would be a community like Ponde Vedra. Maybe you can check this out, and see what you find out. Keep up the Good WORK! We need YOU!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-84418250540906771142008-06-19T23:34:00.000-04:002008-06-19T23:34:00.000-04:00Anon - I'm not quite sure I understand. Are you up...Anon - I'm not quite sure I understand. Are you upset over Brunson mentioning that counseling session, or about us talking about it? Your last post isn't so clear.<BR/><BR/>But how does Brunson sharing this story, which he obviously should do, affect you personally? I'm not making the connection.FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-14406079527442001622008-06-19T23:31:00.000-04:002008-06-19T23:31:00.000-04:00What is it with Christians that they love to take ...What is it with Christians that they love to take incidents from other peoples lives and "share them" with everyone like they have that right? If this was only the first time I've ever seen this in life, I would be a lucky person. And the way its "shared" is a lot of times in such a derogatory manner to the person being "shared" about. Here is what I say to any Christian...the next time you want to "share" something about me....we can "share" it in a court of law. (I'm the person who asked the question about the counseling session again.) I'm really bent out of shape about this, not cause of this incident, but it brings up such memories of the past and those wonderful "sharing" Christians. ugh. Can't people draw the line between appropriate storytelling and crossing the privacy line????? WHAT SOME PEOPLE WON'T DO FOR A STORY. But this is supposed to be Christianity where people "respect" each other. Excuse me while I fall out laughing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-64061960020691026102008-06-19T22:51:00.000-04:002008-06-19T22:51:00.000-04:00About emails. I've had a number of emails from "pa...About emails. I've had a number of emails from "pastor@fbcjax.com" forwarded to me from readers of the blog. Its very apparent that there are multiple responders, probably son, wife, and even secretary, and probably not Mac. Lots of grammatical errors, sometimes very short and not friendly responses. <BR/><BR/>About the counseling session again:<BR/><BR/>Isn't it a bit ironic: things that should be out in the open and shared with the congregation: like significant bylaw changes, reasons for doing "Time to Stand With Israel", details on his sweet land deal, are all kept quite, not a peep. But the sacred trust that he has as a pastor in a husband/wife counseling session - NOT A PROBLEM. I'll share that will everyone. Pretty scary stuff.FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-56770821860536613712008-06-19T22:46:00.000-04:002008-06-19T22:46:00.000-04:00Yes, I was flabbergasted that he shared that couns...Yes, I was flabbergasted that he shared that counseling session in his sermon. Jerry Vines has told stories like that before, but he hides enough of the details so you wouldn't no even what church he was speaking of, much less who it was. I recall the story Vines told of seeing a church member at a pro golf event, running up behind him only to find him with another woman. But we never knew who it was, it was some "previous church"<BR/><BR/>But Brunson actually said this couple was from Dallas, that they were elderly, very rich, very popular, everyone hung out with them, fun to be around, etc. And that she would always cut him off in mid sentence, talked to him like he was a child - etc. That is more than enough to know who he's speaking of, if you're someone from Dallas.<BR/><BR/>Then he proceeds to tell of the actual counseling session. Deb was there. The wife was crying. Deb got the Kleenex. Deb consoled her...etc. etc. Then Mac explains the guy had a girlfriend and was cheating on his wife.<BR/><BR/>My initial thought when hearing it was that he spoke about them in a past tense such that maybe they were both passed, but that's unlikely.<BR/><BR/>Anyways: Church, don't go to Mac for a counseling session. I'm dead serious. He will likely leave here and go to another gig, and he might use your session in one of his sermons. "Yes, I had this couple back in Jax. He was a high school teacher, she was a principle at a junior high. Great couple. He was short and balding, she was beautiful. The lived on the Westside, and had 3 kids. I think his last name started with a B. They were well liked, I think they sat in the front left section. Well, anyways, let me tell you about their counseling session....."<BR/><BR/>Mac should be ashamed. Maybe a trustee will go to Mac and tell him not to do that anymore.<BR/><BR/>And maybe pigs will fly.FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-30620494069091833112008-06-19T19:36:00.000-04:002008-06-19T19:36:00.000-04:00Annon: 5:04 Your lucky you got any response at all...Annon: 5:04 Your lucky you got any response at all!! Most of us dont't get a response whether we sign our name or not. Plus, you dared to ask them a question on the appropriateness of discussing his counseling of some couple privately in his role as pastor. He said, counseling was not his strong suite. Privacy isn't either, unless it's his business, or of course information asked for regarding matters concerning the church. As my "ole grandma" used to say:"If you want your business kept private, don't tell it". Guess that would include the "counseling" preacher. Bet those people won't be talking to any preachers again.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-63545595652244788052008-06-19T18:55:00.000-04:002008-06-19T18:55:00.000-04:00Anon - emailing the pastor, or trying to ask him a...Anon - emailing the pastor, or trying to ask him anything face to face or by any other method will not work. That is a lie from those supporting him no matter what. If you have any questions, Trey will field them, or you will get some canned, rude response, or you will be directed to the proper committee for answers. <BR/><BR/>We have tried. NO answers are forthcoming from this staff about anything. PERIOD. Test me on this one. No answers, period! Not even the yes men can get answers if they ever happen to find anything to ask about. If they did happen to ask, they are no longer yes men and will not be tolerated. All they can do is brown nose and say yes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-71115903544994832432008-06-19T17:04:00.000-04:002008-06-19T17:04:00.000-04:00I have a question, I've been a supporter of the ch...I have a question, I've been a supporter of the church sort of and I am a member for now. But a couple of weeks ago, I didn't like that in the sermon the pastor talked about a counseling incident with a couple from Dallas (or wherever) from the pulpit. So I wrote the church and asked about it, clearly stating that I was a MEMBER of the church in the email. And I felt like the response I got was pieced together from other emails response, telling me that IF I WAS A MEMBER I would know this and that about the church. I didn't like the response, and I didn't like the sermon that I heard that Sunday either. So, since I wrote and asked and felt kind of insulted by the response to my letter, especially that they couldn't even read and see that I said right in the email that i was a member, I wondered if all the responses to questions you write the church are canned, like a piecing together of emails to form a response etc. Anybody know? Or a form letter just filling in the blanks of what the person asked about? I mean, cause if you're gonna piece together a response from a bunch of stuff, then at LEAST can you answer the persons question, and not add insults to the person. I understand that when you have thousands of members that you can't answer letters from everyone about stuff, but the letter I got was insulting enough that I didnt attend church last Sunday, and I definitely decided not to attend any further counseling in their Family Center, and hey, I wrote and tried to go the Biblical way to ask my question. I didnt think my original letter was rude, I just asked if the pastor had permission to quote the guy from the counseling session. Whats wrong with that question? I said somebody quoted my counseling session in a sermon once, and they did several years ago, and I was kind of insulted. But in the email they acted like I said that somebody quoted me in THIS church. Thats not what I said, and it was like totally misinterpreted. Kind of like somebody pieced it together from some other emails, I tell ya.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-41891741871744121702008-06-19T15:25:00.000-04:002008-06-19T15:25:00.000-04:00I will add one:He certainly listens to the advice ...I will add one:<BR/><BR/>He certainly listens to the advice and counsel and leadership and he often seems to defer to the spiritual wisdom and spiritual leadership of his wife.<BR/><BR/>Her being from a Presbyterian background, this is probably where the move to an elder led (staff led) congregation came from.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-57980161596676308302008-06-19T15:02:00.000-04:002008-06-19T15:02:00.000-04:00Sure Anon - I can start a list:1. He is a great fa...Sure Anon - I can start a list:<BR/><BR/>1. He is a great family man and husband.<BR/><BR/>2. He is a good story teller and orator.<BR/><BR/>3. He is very educated.<BR/><BR/>4. He is incredibly well read - I want a preacher who reads and learns about history and current events.<BR/><BR/>5. He has impeccable personal moral standards - not a hint of any scandal or impropriety <BR/><BR/>6. He is a conservative, and unashamedly so.<BR/><BR/>7. He professes to believe the Bible to be the literal, inerrant, fully sufficient word of God.<BR/><BR/>8. He is interested in missions and making our church more missions-minded.<BR/><BR/>9. He has wonderful children that love him dearly - this says about as much about a man as anything.<BR/><BR/>10. He's not preoccupied with his looks and appearance like so many ministers today that look like they spend an hour adoring themselves in the mirror before preaching.<BR/><BR/>I like these things about Mac, and others.<BR/><BR/>I just wish he would humble himself and address the many concerns that have been raised on this blog...not because I want them addressed, but because many in our church will not be freed to love him and accept him as their pastor until he does. He has said and done things in and to this church that have been very hurtful...and I don't believe he will be able to lead our church as God wants it lead until he humbles himself, is open and honest with us about things that have happened his first 2 years.<BR/><BR/>Any other things to add to the list?FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-59636013686890331502008-06-19T14:53:00.001-04:002008-06-19T14:53:00.001-04:00Anon - my take is a bit different in his claim las...Anon - my take is a bit different in his claim last night that our church is "planting" churches in Atlanta, Albany, NY, and Tampa, FL.<BR/><BR/>I'm certain these are not FBC Jax churches or satellites. I view his claim with skepticism in the sense that its an exaggeration to say we are "planting" churches. Are we planting, or are we giving some sum of money to help get these started? If we are giving money, how much and to what extent? <BR/><BR/>For instance in our church budget every year we give a sum to Liberty University, or at least we used to (can't tell now that the financial reports are even less detailed than before Brunson). It was on the order of several thousand per year. That's great, but in a budget of 16 million its nothing to point to as a "ministry" of ours.<BR/><BR/>So I'd be interested in knowing: to what extent are we planting churches in each of these locales? <BR/><BR/>Sorry, I view everything he says that paints himself and our church in a positive light with skepticism. He changed our bylaws very signifcantly and didnt' bother to mention one word about it. So his integrity to be open and honest with us regarding ANYTHING he is leading our church to do is near zero with me.FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-83641052998202773382008-06-19T14:53:00.000-04:002008-06-19T14:53:00.000-04:00Can anyone list ten positive things about Dr. Brun...Can anyone list ten positive things about Dr. Brunson as a pastor, preacher or as a Christian? Just ten.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-31703280670487146102008-06-19T14:46:00.000-04:002008-06-19T14:46:00.000-04:00Watchdog, I'm like you, I hate to be cynical, but ...Watchdog, I'm like you, I hate to be cynical, but does he have family members in those cities who need jobs? I looked up Andy Stanley's "Buckhead" Atlanta satellite on the internet to see how it was run and they have a full staff...they have to...I have heard someone say that it has thousand's in attendance on Sunday. How were the cities picked? I'm guessing the A Group worked the numbers to build the "brand". I just don't see why you have to "expand" to other cities when the numbers in the pews in Jax seem to shrink every Sunday. Has the mission in Jacksonville definately moved from reaching the lost in our city. I'm guessing too that the pulpit committee had no idea that the Brunson approach would be to move away from reaching Jacksonville to satellite churches here there and everywhere.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-43045234810577453362008-06-19T14:13:00.000-04:002008-06-19T14:13:00.000-04:00Hey, Watchdog!! Logged on expecting not to find y...Hey, Watchdog!! Logged on expecting not to find you still here. Thought you were shutting 'er down!! How much longer are you going to be online?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-10719242393760618482008-06-19T01:10:00.000-04:002008-06-19T01:10:00.000-04:00here is an outsider's view on fbc...take it for wh...here is an outsider's view on fbc...take it for what it's worth:<BR/><BR/>I was raised at fbc...attended sundays and wednesdays, was involved in all activities through high school before i moved away for college<BR/><BR/>Jesus saved me this past July. The instrument he used were people at my current church, Willow Creek Chicago, who lived and loved like Jesus. In all my time at FBC, I never felt Jesus' love from anyone. I was just a body in the seats. And I was a member!!! With lots of friends!!! I am more than willing to admit this is partially due to my own stubborness. And sure, I learned a lot about the Bible, how I should act, how I shouldn't act. <BR/>But to feel the love of Jesus radiating from other people was what God used to break me.<BR/><BR/>I don't know much about Brunson or the politics surrounding FBC right now. I just would like to encourage the members of FBC to love and live like Jesus. That's all that really matters. That's how you're going to reach Jacksonville.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-64695286677155199682008-06-18T23:17:00.000-04:002008-06-18T23:17:00.000-04:00Was Mac asking the membership to pray for financia...Was Mac asking the membership to pray for financial means to do all of these various ministries? Why is there hardly any effort to reach Jacksonville? Remember: "That Jacksonville May Know Christ." Cells in St. Johns co. What's wrong with Duval Co., that's where the money is coming from. The lost are all around here. Who in our church membership is going to preach and teach individuals in Atlanta, Tampa and Albany NY? It appears, we are taking a shotgun approach to ministry. Just fire everywhere and hope something happens. Do we really think Jacksonville FBC will have any effect on these other cities. This sounds like Purpose Driven satellite churches to me. Check out "How To Take Your Church Purpose Driven".<BR/><BR/>Do we not know that FBC has always been a local church? Do the trustees have any idea of what's going on? Yes, Jacksonville is growing but FBC is not. We need to build up our own church. Our resources should be spent right here in Jacksonville not all over the country. Do these other cities not have churches. Why is it up to Jax to prioratize them, with our resources. <BR/><BR/>We have thousands on the church roll that do not attend the services? This should be a priority to get them back in attending and serving!!!! No choir tonight and the appeal was made for people to join the choir. How many services did he say someone else would be preaching this summer? Why!!<BR/><BR/>We don't need an excuse to travel all over the country for meetings.<BR/>This just doesn't sound effective to me. What would be the organization required of FBC in these other locations? <BR/><BR/>There have been many in our church that have left for one reason or another. Some don't like the changes, some find the preaching style too abrasive. Some have been alienated. Some think the direction we are going in unacceptable.A Somewhat scattered and fractured situation. Our own church is falling apart and the desire is to go in all directions, just to look like we are doing great things on the mission front. Heal this church first. There is quite enough to do HERE!!! And it won't cost money. Let's visit our own people! One final question: Is FBCJ a 1st priority or not?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-77972556883310879772008-06-18T22:03:00.000-04:002008-06-18T22:03:00.000-04:00Having been brought up in a Christ centered minist...Having been brought up in a Christ centered ministry/church (Dr.Lindsay) I can't possibly imagine being in any church with a Joel Osteen, Andy Stanley or Ed Young, Jr. These are Purpose Driven with hard rock music and just plain entertainers.These are not my idea of preachers. I personally would not cross the street to hear them. Much to the chagrin of our current pastor, the Lindsay footsteps (60yrs.) are hard to fill. Many of the men that were around serving then are around now. I am wondering how they have been able to compromise so easily.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-12455009754574445352008-06-18T20:38:00.000-04:002008-06-18T20:38:00.000-04:00Mac says tonight that our church is planting churc...Mac says tonight that our church is planting churches in Albany, NY, "downtown Atlanta", and I believe he said Tampa.<BR/><BR/>Really?<BR/><BR/>Sorry, if you cant' tell I'm a cynic when it comes to anything Mac tells me.<BR/><BR/>Why not give us some detail. Just how are we doing this? Money? How much money? Who are we giving it to if we are giving money? Can't he share details with us?<BR/><BR/>He likes to talk about how our church is involved in all these mission ministries. But let's get down to brass tacks: how much of our budget is actually going to these ministries? When people are taking mission trips, its not funded by the church. When we send youth now its not paid, Mac did away with that.FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-76750629708695222152008-06-18T19:12:00.000-04:002008-06-18T19:12:00.000-04:00For the record, I never heard of Prestonwood until...For the record, I never heard of Prestonwood until Dr. Jack Graham got there. <BR/><BR/>And you seem to discount what Dr. Graham's leadership has brought because of "explosive growth" in North Dallas? That is weak. Jacksonville continues to grow by the thousands each year and we are actually declining in membership. <BR/><BR/>If God's hand is not on the leader, it will be obvious. Regardless of how much the city grows. <BR/><BR/>Fact is, Mac inherited ministries from Criswell and Lindsay/Vines and has done nothing with it. He just can't cut it. Andy Stanley, Ed Young, Jr and Joel Osteen all used their youth and energy to reach a new generation. Mac is NOT the man to try and do that in Dallas or here. But until this church realizes it, he will continue to live large like a king. <BR/><BR/>I-C-H-A-B-O-D on Team Brunson and their ministry of family and personal branding and wealth building at the expense of formerly great congregations. But...he couldn't do it without a handful of gullible, yes men could he? Nope. You men ought to be ashamed of yourselves!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-54285325169795590822008-06-18T15:50:00.000-04:002008-06-18T15:50:00.000-04:00Anon - Great scriptures. And excellent quote from ...Anon - Great scriptures. And excellent quote from Ghandi. I agree, if preachers like Brunson stopped living like kings and rock stars, and instead humbled themselves to be servant leaders, following after say, Jesus Christ and the Apostle Paul, how much better off would the world be?FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-10681566036608365742008-06-18T15:45:00.000-04:002008-06-18T15:45:00.000-04:00If all Christians acted like Christ, the whole wor...If all Christians acted like Christ, the whole world would be Christian. - Mahatma Gandhi<BR/><BR/>"By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another." John 13:35<BR/><BR/>"And why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but do not perceive the plank in your own eye? "Or how can you say to your brother, 'Brother, let me remove the speck that is in your eye,' when you yourself do not see the plank that is in your own eye? Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck that is in your brother's eye."<BR/>Luke 6:41-42 NKJV<BR/><BR/>Heb 13:17 "Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they keep watch over your souls as those who will give an account."<BR/><BR/>But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes. 2 Timothy 2:23Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-83702437859479810512008-06-18T00:37:00.000-04:002008-06-18T00:37:00.000-04:00Dr. Vines did the visitor's reception for years. H...Dr. Vines did the visitor's reception for years. He didn't just leave under "tight" security to go home.<BR/><BR/>Yes, he did have tight security, as did Dr. Lindsay. In case you didn't know, there was a good reason for it - their lives were threatened on a weekly basis! And following the whole Mohamed ordeal, of course Dr. Vines' security would be tightened.<BR/><BR/>However, to say that Vines just left after the service is just factually incorrect.<BR/><BR/>Being a supporter of Dr. Brunson does not mean it gives you the right to disparage the good names of your former pastor's. In fact, some of the behavior in here from Brunson supporters towards former pastor's is downright disgusting.<BR/><BR/>There's nothing wrong with being a supporter of Dr. Brunon. I am one of them. However, in my support of Dr. Brunson, I still don't see the need to put down Vines or Lindsay for <B>anything</B> to show your support for Brunson.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-12091961163877020192008-06-17T22:45:00.000-04:002008-06-17T22:45:00.000-04:00Just for the record, Dr. Billy Webber started Pres...Just for the record, Dr. Billy Webber started Prestonwood and it was considered a mega church when he pastored it. Jack Graham was the recipient of an already<BR/>fast growing church when came as pastor and of course the North Dallas area was fast growing. It was Webber's vision that put the church there and where the initial growth began. He DID inherit a church established by someone else!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-51031577089979821022008-06-17T20:22:00.000-04:002008-06-17T20:22:00.000-04:00Donny Mac, Jr's problem is this: A lack of respec...Donny Mac, Jr's problem is this: A lack of respect. Every man needs it and will do crazy things for it, according to Mac. Even cheat on his wife or get into gangs. So applying this to Mac himself, he left a good ministry and commitment in Dallas in search of RESPECT. He could not find it despite having followed in the pulpit of the most respected Dr. Criswell. Prestonwood was right up the road and Mac was a little bitty fish in a huge pond. He never could, or should, have earned anywhere near the respect Dr. Criswell had and this angered him. Even Dr. Jack Graham built up Prestonwood, he didn't inherit another man's ministry. So off to Jax, to follow two of the most loved and respected pastors in the world. Guess what, he does not get even one iota of the same love and respect that those men earned. So lack of respect is his problem. And he has yet to find it from the congregation or in his own home. Hey Donny Mac, go start your own church, live amongst them and minister to your flock, grow it numerically and spiritually, and then someday, you might have their respect. Until then, the money sure is good here isn't it?<BR/><BR/>You are a disgrace and a joke, Donny Mac.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com