tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post3434952398718995409..comments2024-03-23T22:54:58.661-04:00Comments on FBC Jax Watchdogs: Modern Day "Circuit Riders": Traveling Mega Church Pastors Finding Another Way to Fleece the Flocks and Recycle Their SermonsFBC Jax Watchdoghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comBlogger97125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-3912111295683390422017-03-16T15:36:48.850-04:002017-03-16T15:36:48.850-04:00There will always be preachers that are in it for ...There will always be preachers that are in it for money and power and that is a shame....But the reality is the church that is willing to pay them high dollar amounts are as guilty as the preachers. Jeremy Fryernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-24816966686322351722013-01-27T17:58:42.373-05:002013-01-27T17:58:42.373-05:00I've been a church planter for close to 10 yea...I've been a church planter for close to 10 years. The mega church will not come right out and squash another church they merely do it by attrition. They bankrupt the struggling churches yet create no more Christ followers. Transfer growth is not Kingdom growth. These pastors that participate in things such as this are not men of God rather educated MBA s with a good business plan. And we wonder why churches are empty on Sunday.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-54169744319643117632011-12-26T10:03:26.647-05:002011-12-26T10:03:26.647-05:00Listen to what preachers are saying in their sermo...Listen to what preachers are saying in their sermons. Compare it with what the Gospel says. You can follow false teachers. Let them make merchandise of you with their book sales. Or follow God. It's your choice. He has given us free will.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-45044622621365677612011-11-07T11:00:40.073-05:002011-11-07T11:00:40.073-05:00I had to chime in on this...One of the reasons why...I had to chime in on this...One of the reasons why I don't even go to church anymore, because I have seen this side with Woodstock First Baptist and Johnny Hunt. Doesn't he travel now more than he preaches at Woodstock, while salary/hospitality etc continues to be paid? Just about every weekend, a different beach? Just follow his facebook page. A new diamond bracelet for his wife this week... What amazes me are the followers that continue to let him do it. I had a laugh today at a facebook picture of his daughter (in Haiti) on another "missionary trip" with a disgusted look, wearing a sun dress, flip flops carrying a Louis Vuitton handbag. Needless to say she was not hugging the poor Haitian children.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-14087232396991077592011-08-14T17:40:20.602-04:002011-08-14T17:40:20.602-04:00Robert Morris of Gateway Church in Southlake this ...Robert Morris of Gateway Church in Southlake this weekend asked people to buy his book and then come to an upcoming book signing. He said this helps with ratings on Amazon and getting on the best-seller lists.<br /><br />What about telling people how great and useful the book is instead of telling them to buy it so you can get on the best seller list.<br /><br />Then he goes on to say, you know me, I'm just doing this to help people. <br /><br />For $15, you can get an autographed book of Morris and get to say hello to him. So go ahead, he'll never give you the time of day on any other occasion, unless you're a multi-millionaire writing a check to Gateway.<br /><br />If you buy my products I'll say hello to you. Pathetic.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-81754129794005496052011-08-12T17:27:00.430-04:002011-08-12T17:27:00.430-04:00People pay Perry Noble to speak? wowPeople pay Perry Noble to speak? wowAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-17299502385454048402011-08-12T15:35:33.167-04:002011-08-12T15:35:33.167-04:00For the record, all of Perry Noble's speaking ...For the record, all of Perry Noble's speaking fees go directly to NewSpring church.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-3895584071929368882011-08-10T19:31:45.437-04:002011-08-10T19:31:45.437-04:00To answer annon. August 10, 7:19 AM's question...To answer annon. August 10, 7:19 AM's question about does First Baptist still have 9000 attending, the answer is NO. Under Mac Brunson First Baptist is now the 3rd largest church in Jacksonville with Bethel Baptist being #1 and Celebration being #2. Not bad for a preacher who uses church money to hire a consulting firm to tell him how to run a church. Funny how Dr. Lindsay's way to run a church was to ask the Holy Spirit for guidance. Didn't Dr. Lindsay know that's not how to run a church, I mean look how crowded First Baptist has become since Mac Brunson arrived in town.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-49507531753165642132011-08-10T12:33:13.149-04:002011-08-10T12:33:13.149-04:00Sharon posted: "I have no quarrel with the s...Sharon posted: "I have no quarrel with the sincere pastors who may preach at another church now and then and accept a small love offering.<br /><br />But the ones we're talking about here should be viewed as professional speakers." <br /><br />Sharon, you are correct....they are professional speakers. I am no fan of mega churches. What a great comfort it is to belong to a small church where the pastor is so much more. Some of these pastors not only preach....even on Wed. nights (Steve Gaines...just is too busy), counsel people in dire need of a personal touch, visit the sick and support the mission field.....These pastor's wives are so busy with helping their husbands, there should be added praise to them as well. You won't find many rich pastors in these churches....just rich in everything that counts. There may be a big revival coming in the mega churches....the flock may begin to speak out instead of following behind a man whom most have never met face to face. These mega preachers have it rough...they have staff to do the touchy feely for the congregation....They are the Head....???? I think not. Too long have Christians been afraid to dispute their professional speakers....It is time for the human touch that we so sorely miss.hopeandfaithnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-65240525809166869162011-08-10T08:25:05.909-04:002011-08-10T08:25:05.909-04:00Since all of you think pastors and staff are rich ...Since all of you think pastors and staff are rich and overpaid, I have the following truth for you to digest.<br /><br />In the past two churches where I have worked the pastor and staff made up three of the top five givers in the church. I know because I saw the giving records and btw, the church also had a lot of very rich (untithing) members.<br /><br />I do however agree with most of the assessments of mega-church pastors.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-39940200872780026772011-08-10T08:07:23.093-04:002011-08-10T08:07:23.093-04:00I have no quarrel with the sincere pastors who may...I have no quarrel with the sincere pastors who may preach at another church now and then and accept a small love offering.<br /><br />But the ones we're talking about here should be viewed as professional speakers. That's what they are. Can't think of any famous ones right now-Suze Orman, Zig Ziglar?? They are good at presenting a topic, and people feel motivated afterward or just enjoy the presentation.<br /><br />What makes the "Circuit Riders" sickening to me is that I always thought there was no money involved, and they just loved the Lord so much and were "Men of God,", etc. But in reality (which they keep under wraps,) it is a business, pure and simple. They make money by doing it. It's a job just like being the pastor of their church is a job. It involves money, benefits, prestige, lots of opportunity to travel. I don't see how it has anything to do with being a Christian.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-39500755285959750462011-08-10T07:19:06.274-04:002011-08-10T07:19:06.274-04:00On the issue of small church pastor, comparing per...On the issue of small church pastor, comparing per member payments is not accurate. It is not apples to apples. You need to add what what they actually do if you desire to go the business route in deciding pay. <br />I would say that your small church pastor does 2 to 3 times the amount of work as the mega pastor. Mega pastors actually do little more than preach and hob nob with other mega pastors these days. Few visit the sick, counsel, baptize, disciple, administrate, receive complaints, deal with wayward people, lead Church discipline, or lead worship. Many make few decisions because they pay an executive "pastor" 200k plus to do everything. They have other staff that do all the other stuff. And the mega pastor will NEVER receive a late night call for someone needing helping, counsel or complain, because NO ONE has his number except a select few staff and rich people. So I agree apples to apples but not sure that is what we have in Seneca's statement.<br />In FBC Jax case do they still have 9000 attending? And if they lose members should the leaders recive a cut in pay since we desire to be all about business models? Not sure apples to apples is what we have.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-9689638875027772952011-08-10T01:51:45.063-04:002011-08-10T01:51:45.063-04:00This is what they call "spreading the gospel&...This is what they call "spreading the gospel" -- Preaching their prosperity doctrines at other churches.<br /><br />Absolutely hilarious column -- and about as dead on as it gets.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-19081390483306392082011-08-09T23:35:42.409-04:002011-08-09T23:35:42.409-04:00My apologies - re-reading the post, I realize you ...My apologies - re-reading the post, I realize you probably meant the salaries of staff, not the congregation...<br />August 9, 2011 6:58 PM<br /><br />Of course I meant the staff. Sorry that wasn't made clearer. <br /><br />We don't even track member's tithing. Only 2 people know what people give and the pastor isn't one of them.<br /><br />In fact, in the rare times we've had pledge drives we didn't even track that people gave what they pledged. Always figured that was between them and God.<br /><br />Not saying our way is the best or only way but we operate under the policy that the members have a right to know where their tithes and offerings are going.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-52345577706555045372011-08-09T23:00:40.476-04:002011-08-09T23:00:40.476-04:00Ethically, a man who receives a payment when he sh...Ethically, a man who receives a payment when he should be working should turn that payment over to his employer who is paying his salary already. However, as I am learning, pastors do not have to abide by the ethics the rest of us have to live by.WishIhadknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12487727353887788291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-57819160022884952232011-08-09T20:16:09.155-04:002011-08-09T20:16:09.155-04:00"this my friend is between the individual and..."this my friend is between the individual and the Lord - it is not the business of the church"<br /><br />BWAHAHA. I cannot get over how ignorant folks are. I suppose you expect the government writes his checks?<br /><br />No wonder charlatans like Mac exist. This is too easy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-23168277044575411302011-08-09T20:13:24.514-04:002011-08-09T20:13:24.514-04:00Surely you must be joking! Why would anyone want t...Surely you must be joking! Why would anyone want to become a member of a church if everyone knows their personal financial status - this my friend is between the individual and the Lord - it is not the business of the church. Blessed is a cheerful giver says the gospel - you will never bring people in asking for a checklist of their $$$$$!<br /><br />August 9, 2011 6:50 PM<br /><br />you must be swilling kool aid. What you want me to believe is they got in ministry for the money. Because that is what you are saying. Would you hire an employee and not know what he makes?<br /><br />Your pastor is an employee of the church whether you believe it or not.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-59722088805913621312011-08-09T18:58:56.546-04:002011-08-09T18:58:56.546-04:00Surely you must be joking! Why would anyone want t...Surely you must be joking! Why would anyone want to become a member of a church if everyone knows their personal financial status - this my friend is between the individual and the Lord - it is not the business of the church. Blessed is a cheerful giver says the gospel - you will never bring people in asking for a checklist of their $$$$$!<br /><br />August 9, 2011 6:50 PM<br /><br />My apologies - re-reading the post, I realize you probably meant the salaries of staff, not the congregation. In doing that, you have respect of your congregation & they will give more if they see a staff members level of income is modest - we want to bless them abundantly! At least this is the way our household feels.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-91032410964158089992011-08-09T18:56:33.774-04:002011-08-09T18:56:33.774-04:00And finally, for those of you who think all mega-c...And finally, for those of you who think all mega-church senior pastors are primarily entertainers; Brunson is a very poorly paid entertainer.<br /><br />( And I don't even go to his church.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-79800508722540404662011-08-09T18:50:22.455-04:002011-08-09T18:50:22.455-04:00Every penny of everyones salary/package is shown i...Every penny of everyones salary/package is shown in the budget. Members see that before it's voted on by them and then they see it every month at business meeting.<br /><br />August 9, 2011 5:47 PM<br /><br />Surely you must be joking! Why would anyone want to become a member of a church if everyone knows their personal financial status - this my friend is between the individual and the Lord - it is not the business of the church. Blessed is a cheerful giver says the gospel - you will never bring people in asking for a checklist of their $$$$$!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-59884315409395113052011-08-09T17:47:45.191-04:002011-08-09T17:47:45.191-04:00Never thought to run the figures until this discus...Never thought to run the figures until this discussion but if you go by our average worship attendance, our pastor receives $240. If you go by total membership, he pulls $92. If you figure it as a % of budget, his package is just under 9% of budget.<br /><br />Using Les' definition of a small church, we're just barely not one. By no means a mega.<br /><br />Every penny of everyones salary/package is shown in the budget. Members see that before it's voted on by them and then they see it every month at business meeting.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-73684335108049189582011-08-09T17:13:21.044-04:002011-08-09T17:13:21.044-04:00Seneca reminds me of Jon Estes....hmmmmSeneca reminds me of Jon Estes....hmmmmAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-1071866409221314242011-08-09T17:12:04.927-04:002011-08-09T17:12:04.927-04:00My pastor ears $533 dollars a member compared to B...My pastor ears $533 dollars a member compared to Brunson's $33 dollars a member.<br /><br />August 9, 2011 4:51 PM<br /><br />This thinking totally fits with the mega I worked in. We referred to the members as nickel and noses. <br /><br />Our Savior had no where to lay His head and Paul made tents. I would prefer to compare them to what I see in the Word. Not to each other.<br /><br />Where would it stop? Osteen per head?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-89163512091698132002011-08-09T17:06:48.387-04:002011-08-09T17:06:48.387-04:00Off Topic: Searching Together [Jon Zens] > WHEN...Off Topic: <a href="http://www.searchingtogether.org/blog/?p=80" rel="nofollow">Searching Together [Jon Zens] > WHEN ARE WE GOING TO WAKE UP TO REALITY? The Nightmare of the Pastoral Institution</a>Rameshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09728392311602332613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-17350341615541864122011-08-09T16:53:48.801-04:002011-08-09T16:53:48.801-04:00Seneca Griggs is an idiot.
August 9, 2011 3:55 PM...Seneca Griggs is an idiot.<br /><br />August 9, 2011 3:55 PM<br /><br /><br />Makes me believe Seneca is really just an alias name. We've got a lot of idiot's writing in - perhaps thats the plan to rid some of us from reading the blog. :>)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com