tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post3519549052333954828..comments2024-03-23T22:54:58.661-04:00Comments on FBC Jax Watchdogs: What to Do After Asking for $1 Million CashFBC Jax Watchdoghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comBlogger50125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-70197229926557791122008-10-12T19:02:00.000-04:002008-10-12T19:02:00.000-04:00I suggest that the reason some are trembling today...I suggest that the reason some are trembling today is because the congregation only offered 52% of the budget and 25% of the special offering of $1M. Me thinks someone got his wish with the members that work who only did not get a pay raise (due to economic slow down) but also those that have lost their jobs and cannot find one at present and who are borrowing from their cash reserves, parents, friends or refinancing something to make ends meet!!!. For those that don't work and have invested in the stock market they just got hit with a 40-75% slash of their equity. The retirees get somewhere around 2.2-2.5% increase in their social security while the inflation factor in most categories is around 10% or greater. They keep losing year after year after year.<BR/><BR/>I don't recall in the history of the church that the offerings have been so dismal. Maybe this is a sign of something new that is about to happen which no one expected? Possibly God's will is being perfected to bring the church to its knees? All things do work together for good don't they for the Christian?<BR/><BR/>You know most of the American workforce is suffering financially and maybe its time for America to wake up. America cannot continue to live beyond its means. Payday someday is here and now. This election is the most imporant election in our history. The next president will either fix it or destroy it. The latter will be a calamity for us all. The one world government just may be on the horizon. The man whose number is 666 could be just a few months or years away. What we need is prayer, prayer, and more prayer.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-83674356175625729082008-10-12T17:24:00.000-04:002008-10-12T17:24:00.000-04:00Watchdog,A little off the subject but I noticed on...Watchdog,<BR/><BR/>A little off the subject but I noticed one of our lead men in the finance committee went on vacation with Brunson and Honey.<BR/><BR/>Guess some you bulldog and others you smooze. Tom Stymler (also on the pulpit committee who brought in Brunson) was on vacation with the Brunson's. Nice move Brunson!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-38137753048672121852008-10-12T17:08:00.000-04:002008-10-12T17:08:00.000-04:00Anon 4:02 PM:Often, churches cannot pay their mini...Anon 4:02 PM:<BR/><BR/>Often, churches cannot pay their ministers enough for all they put those pastors through (read the Bible: God gives ministers to His church to EQUIP the saints, not to motivate the saints so that they can be equipped; if a professing Christian's destiny-changed-from-Hell-to-Heaven-forever doesn't motivate him inwardly to serve the Lord Jesus Christ outwardly with everything he has and is always, that professing Christian may not really be a Christian!). On the other hand, God hasn't made ANY SENIOR PASTOR YET who ought to be paid a salary/benefits as great as has been discussed at this blogsite (ministers of education are a different story, though). Should a senior pastor fortunate enough to make an extraordinary salary genuinely appreciate it, and live as if he does by serving/leading his congregation well?--That absolutely goes without saying. And, you can tell what a person really is like, in part, by what he does with what he doesn't need.<BR/><BR/>Look out well for your other staff members, ministry or otherwise.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-25386434337246553662008-10-12T16:08:00.000-04:002008-10-12T16:08:00.000-04:00FBC you may think you are Baptist but your not. Y...FBC you may think you are Baptist but your not. You are Presbyterian-Calvanitst. Wonder how you got there? I think I know.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-81754842513886706352008-10-12T16:02:00.000-04:002008-10-12T16:02:00.000-04:00Watchdog: Classic. Just classic. You have really g...Watchdog: Classic. Just classic. You have really got him pegged. I have thought from first hearing Mac, "He cannot preach." He is good at expressing his ideas of what he "thinks." But, he is not a preacher!! In my opinion, of course. A really good salesman maybe. Evidently that, as he sold the pulpit committee. They hired him.<BR/><BR/>Annon:of Oct.l2:@7:l2: In point 3 of your excellent blog, you speak about the difficulties many pastors have in making it financially in the ministry. I agree that this is the case. This could be why roughly 3000 leave the ministry every year. That and maybe they arn't truly called of God. Most churches cannot afford to give the preacher all of the gifts that these mega preachers demand and feel they are entitled to. One thought occured to me while reading your blog. Wouldn't you think Mac would be thankful for what has been "HANDED" to him here. Instead of beating up the very people that have been so gracious to him. Maybe we should concentrate more on the preachers that need help instead of rewarding the one that obviously doesn't like his current church. Ungrateful is a word that comes to mind.<BR/><BR/>Annon: 2:42: Re the "dress" factor. Isn't Mac being slightly LEGALISTIC? I thought Smyrl didn't allow comments on the teenagers dress fashion. Besides how can Mac critize the dress factor, wasn't it he who put the deacons and ushers in golf shirts and aprons when he came here?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-52682890279906029602008-10-12T15:17:00.000-04:002008-10-12T15:17:00.000-04:00GREED GREED GREEDSo, how much money is enough? Ju...GREED GREED GREED<BR/><BR/>So, how much money is enough? Just a little more!<BR/><BR/>These PURPOSE DRIVEN CHURCH PREACHERS could care less about ANYTHING BUT THEIR OWN SELF AGGRANDIZEMENT. <BR/><BR/>After all, look at next years Pastor Conferance Speakers. At least two are CALVANIST. Seven may be nondenominational. But most are WEALTHY or look at the Purpose Driven Model to grow WEALTHY. <BR/><BR/>HEY! Don't blame them for wanting to be Rich. BLAME THEM FOR HOW THEY GET THERE. On the backs of you and me. Shame on me for helping them. Shame on me for getting sucked into their GIVE ME YOUR MONEY SCHEMES.<BR/><BR/>BLAME THEM FOR THIER DECEIVING PREACHING.<BR/><BR/>What we have here is the continuing story of the false teachings of Rick Warren.<BR/><BR/>God help them! God help us all!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-72062870231107631552008-10-12T14:42:00.000-04:002008-10-12T14:42:00.000-04:00Not sure what you mean what emotions I approve of....Not sure what you mean what emotions I approve of.<BR/><BR/>I find Mac to be a performer and not a preacher.<BR/><BR/>What else did I get out of the sermon? That he thinks he's a great historian, that he likes to impress us with his knowledge of greek to tell us plebe what the scripture REALLY means...but he didn't speak one iota about "hurt" or the flip side of hurt. Oh, and I learned that we should have listened to Mac and "other preachers" who have been telling us years to not invest in the stock market but in the kingdom of God. Incredibly impractical sermon/performance. I think we need to get Maurilio down here ASAP to help him with his sermon/performance prep to make it more relevant to people's lives. But it was entertaining. He is a great orator. I enjoy watching him. Like I enjoy watching Bill Clinton or Joe Biden waxing eloquently. Its almost as incredible watching him perform as it is to listen to the giddiness of those that have drunk the Kool Aid.FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-23668646139706629132008-10-12T14:02:00.000-04:002008-10-12T14:02:00.000-04:00Watchdog,What emotions do you approve of "Love ya ...Watchdog,<BR/><BR/>What emotions do you approve of "Love ya Mac. Great performance today, especially the point where you trembled and almost cried. You had me going there for a minute?"<BR/><BR/>Apparently you can read a man's heart better that most can.<BR/><BR/>Is that all you got out of the sermon was that you thought he was acting?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-35826725380125058552008-10-12T13:27:00.000-04:002008-10-12T13:27:00.000-04:00WD - did you hear the contradictions in his sermon...WD - did you hear the contradictions in his sermon? Near the beginning he railed against pants that are worn really low - which of course is a slap at young black men who are the ones that mostly wear that style. But then later he talks about how we don't sanctify ourselves through what we wear or don't wear.<BR/><BR/>But why attack a certain style of dress that he doesn't approve of? There are plenty of our own youth who come to church dressed as though they're going to the beach...but its easier to attack the dress styles of the young black men.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-42136381888999163102008-10-12T13:00:00.000-04:002008-10-12T13:00:00.000-04:00Ole Mac was in rare form today!I loved his intro. ...Ole Mac was in rare form today!<BR/><BR/>I loved his intro. Away for two weeks, and his first words are about "anonymous persons" who criticize to bother Christians and to "push" them out of the Christian race.<BR/><BR/>Said it two or three times...anybody besides Mac have anonymous people pushing you? <BR/><BR/>Love ya Mac. Great performance today, especially the point where you trembled and almost cried. You had me going there for a minute. <BR/><BR/>Also, great point about how preachers for decades (like Mac) have been telling people not to invest in the stock market but the kingdom of God. I would love to see what Mac's portfolio looks like, as though HE is not invested in the stock market. As Joe Biden says...God love ya Mac...FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-91870462770869032642008-10-12T11:57:00.000-04:002008-10-12T11:57:00.000-04:00The sermon delivered by David Allen was a convicti...The sermon delivered by David Allen was a convicting message and the best since Dr Lindsay passed. We actually heard biblical exposition and the doctrine of salvation given. No long dissertation on history just the Word. The Word is what convicts and is the truth. Anything else in its place is just fluff. One thing very apparent was that it was delivered to edify Christ and to build up the body of believers. Not as a sermon manipulated to abuse the listener or to subliminally push an angry agenda by an angry self serving preacher. Thanks Dr. Allen, please come again.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-9840820010402384952008-10-12T11:22:00.000-04:002008-10-12T11:22:00.000-04:00EUROPE?EUROPE?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-65469203929848535982008-10-12T07:12:00.000-04:002008-10-12T07:12:00.000-04:001. Seminaries teach that a senior pastor's respons...1. Seminaries teach that a senior pastor's responsibilities to his congregation are: preaching, leading, and pastoral care. Each requires the pastor actually to be present on-site for a significant length of time weekly--and distracted by other responsibilities to which he may commit himself--in order to accomplish it.<BR/><BR/>2. "Work made for hire" laws in the U.S. may indicate that either FBCJax or FBCDallas--or both?--actually are the owners of your senior pastor's book and due all the royalties of it, unless FBCJax's leadership signed-away its rights when your senior pastor was hired. The same may be true for the sermons he prepares on the congregation's time, and the broadcasts produced weekly.<BR/><BR/>3. Ministers are permitted to count a portion (the housing-related) of their salaries as tax exempt when filing their taxes annually, as described by bloggers above. In a way, this makes up for business-related expenses not reimbursed to them and for low salaries many of them receive (one congregation I served essentially said, "Welcome to town! Your children will qualify for free or reduced lunches and breakfasts at school due to the salary we're going to pay you. As an indication that you're 'in this thing' with us, we'd like for you to buy a house in town--if you can. All benefits often provided to other pastors by the churches they serve: you aren't going to get them here (e.g., buy your own medical insurance if you can afford it after you tithe and etc.) . . ." Of course, a minister must be able to itemize when filing his taxes and the percentages have to be great enough. On the church side of things, being a minister often is both an economically and an emotionally unhealthy thing for a man and his family; on the divine side of things, God often makes up the differences--but lots of ministers, senior pastor or otherwide, go to their graves poor and their widows poorer. This might not apply to FBCJax's senior pastor, but I'd bet it will to MANY OF THE REST of the congregation's ministers! Who's looking out for them?--Your senior pastor is away too often to provide that kind of leadership and the lay leaders seem ineffective at that kind of task; your associate ministers (at least, the ones still present when your current senior pastor arrived there) may be as fed-up with the things about which you're blogging as you are, but they aren't going to say so until/unless they have other jobs to go to first. But their kids need braces, too, and etc.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-82117701202933883192008-10-12T00:31:00.000-04:002008-10-12T00:31:00.000-04:00No wonder many preachers don't preach on greed, il...No wonder many preachers don't preach on greed, ill gotten gain and filthy lucre.<BR/><BR/>For you old timers: There once was a refrain in a song that goes like this: "Got along without you before I met you, gonna get along without you now."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-60751336920961541592008-10-11T23:48:00.000-04:002008-10-11T23:48:00.000-04:00It does appear that some of these "preachers" are ...It does appear that some of these "preachers" are not quite as noble and self-sacrificing as many of us may have been led to believe. It rather looks like they may be in "the business" for profit. True capitalist. Makes one wonder who does the calling to the ministry. Otherwise, how do they know how to make money at every opportunity. No wonder they need marketing firms and "brands". Does any one believe these guys are truly called of God?<BR/><BR/>For the true pastors "somewhere" it is unfortunate for them that the money called preachers are giving them a bad name. But, we know the truly God called, genuine pastors, will receive their reward in heaven, far surpassing anything they could ever receive on earth.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-89015488769845126192008-10-11T23:23:00.000-04:002008-10-11T23:23:00.000-04:00Thy Peace: The tax laws allow a non profit tax exe...Thy Peace: The tax laws allow a non profit tax exempt organization such as a church to pay certain of their staff employees (ministers) with so much salary and so much housing allowances, car allowances, travel allowances, clothes allowance. So depending on how much is paid in these areas the answer is yes. Sen Grasso was interested in reviewing the IRS tax rules concerning some of these pastors that own several houses, Rolls Royce automobiles, airplanes, and million dollar salaries for them and their wives. These questions are still up in the air but there were multi millions in tax exemptions made by thousands of pastors when this recently came to the forefront of Grasso's committee.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-65956183075850706962008-10-11T23:22:00.000-04:002008-10-11T23:22:00.000-04:00Thy Peace-I am a pastor, and I can tell you that y...Thy Peace-<BR/>I am a pastor, and I can tell you that yes, we can have a portion of our income tax exempt. It works like this, we can have the church designate a portion of our salary as housing allowance. This "housing allowance" is exempt from FICA taxes but we are responsible for Social security taxes UNLESS we opt out of Social security. Remember pastor's are considered self-employed byt the federal government.<BR/>The interesting thing is this, if you take a housing allowance, it must equal the amount that is spent on mortgage, utilities, and extra's such as lawn service, satellite TV, maid service so you can get a pretty hefty tax exemption. <BR/>Not to mention if you have an office in your house they take the square footage of your home divide it by the square footage of your home office and that is also tax exempt because again as a pastor you are self-employed!<BR/><BR/>Hope this helps, <BR/>KyleAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-15084934531767434652008-10-11T20:45:00.000-04:002008-10-11T20:45:00.000-04:00Can we assume Mac will take the opportunity while ...Can we assume Mac will take the opportunity while speaking during the Celebrators in Pigeon Forge, TN to slamdunk FBC Jax, its' members and especially those gosh awful bloggers embedded there? <BR/><BR/>Can we also assume he will be meeting with Maurilio during this time to learn how to "shut you up?"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-25839021629185004952008-10-11T20:17:00.000-04:002008-10-11T20:17:00.000-04:00Can anyone answer this statement?"Another thing pr...Can anyone answer this statement?<BR/><BR/><I>"Another thing preachers salaries are partially tax exempt."</I><BR/><BR/>Is Mac's income from fbcjax and other churches, tax exempt for him?Rameshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09728392311602332613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-76001052769687902592008-10-11T19:59:00.000-04:002008-10-11T19:59:00.000-04:00Yes indeedy, Mac worked on this book at least part...Yes indeedy, Mac worked on this book at least partially AFTER he came to Jacksonville. This has been part of my criticism of Mac for his first year, as he took time off from preaching to work on his manuscript...he TOLD US...can't preach tonight, I've been working so hard on meeting a publisher deadline for my book.<BR/><BR/>So yes, one can assume that he and Sharon worked on the book on our nickel. And now he's reaping pretty good rewards as Mac's buddies at the seminary are requiring seminary students to buy the book.<BR/><BR/>A great racket, eh?<BR/><BR/>Anybody out there whose employer would let you double dip like this?FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-86024275115103236932008-10-11T19:50:00.000-04:002008-10-11T19:50:00.000-04:00I don't know who you are, but you've pretty well s...I don't know who you are, but you've pretty well summarized what my blog has been about for the past year.<BR/><BR/>And you know what...if he were a loving, humble, gracious preacher, thankful to his congregation for the opportuntity to pastor the church, and if he just did his job, he would probably overlook many of his "faults" that you've just pointed out. <BR/><BR/>BUT ON TOP OF ALL THAT YOU'VE JUST SAID...he's pompous, arrogant, lies and stretches the truth, and beats us up regularly. So its only a matter of time.<BR/><BR/>Its interesting that as of 10/3 the budget committments are at 50%, slightly over 8 million. I guess more committments will trickle in over time, but my initial thought is that is very alarming that our chest of Joash yielded only 1/2 of what last year's budget was.<BR/><BR/>With the very rich in our church taking a soaking in the market the past month, they may have less to give to cover the budget shortfalls. Times will be tough my friends.FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-35684146495952643572008-10-11T19:48:00.000-04:002008-10-11T19:48:00.000-04:00No! I did not invest in Mac's book. Info avai...No! I did not invest in Mac's book. Info available on line.<BR/><BR/>I did notice that in the Preface & Acknowledgments, Mac acknowledges the efforts and work of his Admin. Assistant, Sharron Kemp, who worked for him in Texas. Mac brought her and husband to FBC Jax. I know she is on staff now. Was this part of his "package" and was someone on staff removed or reassigned, or was another position created just for her?<BR/><BR/>Did Mac and Sharron work on this book while being paid salaries by FBC Jax? If so, then FBC should receive part of the royalties. I'm sure they would reply that minimal time was spent on the collaboration. <BR/><BR/>Watchdog did extensively cover the subject of this book earlier. Sorry I did not read the blogs earlier.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-17274841664005372872008-10-11T19:42:00.000-04:002008-10-11T19:42:00.000-04:00I wonder how much extra dough Mac gets by Moonligh...I wonder how much extra dough Mac gets by Moonlighting. If he pays $2500-$5600 to visiting speakers how much does he charge? One thing he said some time back was he had spoken 14 times in 7 days in just one week while away. If he gets at least what he pays speakers at FBC that week alone he would have grossed $31,500 to $78,400. Then add all the other conferences, speeches at SWBS, SEBS, SBS, NOBS, other churches and cruises where he gets $175 per head and you can estimate it between $250,000 to $400,000. Then add the $350,000-$400,000 at Fbc and you will arrive somewhere near $600,000 to $800,000. Not bad earnings for any CEO. How many trustees earn this kind of money? I bet not any. So the trustees have allowed the pastor they hired to pastor their church to make almost double what they guaranteed plus he's off 8-10 weeks a year every year. What a DEAL. No wonder he can't walk in the shoes of the normal average Joe. And he gets off another day by standing out there at one of them there black kettles. My hats off to him. What a fundraiser. And to think he never wanted to be a local pastor. He would have never imagined that this much wealth could have been accummulated and to have as much freedom of expression in a local church compared to being a professor or a lawyer where he would have had to be at work 8-5 five days a week and take only one or two weeks off a year if he could have gotten it. Plus as a Dr. or lawyer he would have to answer for his decisions to a client and to a governing body. Also don't forget the month of Aug. we had Smyrl and guest speakers the entire month.And, Smyrl preaches on Wed. nights when Mac doesn't want to. Yes, we should be so lucky. He does have it rough compared to many of his members who are fortunate to make $60,000 per annum. Additionally, how many of the members or anyone else has the opportunity to hire their wife and son and give them whatever salary he desires and unlimited vacation pay. Talk about a golden parachute this is like having a money tree in your own back yard.Didn't the trustees discuss this double dipping with him when they hired him.? If not where were their negotiating skills? This is basic business knowledge. After all the church is now a business entity. Can't we hire another pastor cheaper to NOT be here. I don't know if my figures are correct, but I bet I am close just from observation. This mega preacher deal is "cutting edge" with no restraints as long as you can back people down and dare them to question you. By the way, isn't their another cruise scheduled for Jan. 2009? I don't know , just asking. Another thing preachers salaries are partially tax exempt.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-10561449648404164582008-10-11T18:48:00.000-04:002008-10-11T18:48:00.000-04:00"A pastor should never insist on his own way at al...<I>"A pastor should never insist on his own way at all costs. He shouls never threaten to resign if the church doesn't go along with his ideas. Nobody gets his own way all the time. It is better to back off and approach the matter at a leter time in a different manner."</I><BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=Xn0SVTLRtRwC&dq=The+New+Guidebook+For+Pastors&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=TGkg3ssTu8&sig=nxKqa_wgsYP3hKzFAKcrTEXW8O4&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=7&ct=result#PPA67,M1" REL="nofollow">The New Guidebook for Pastors By James W. Bryant, Mac Brunson: Page 67</A><BR/><BR/>You can view limited pages under google book search.Rameshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09728392311602332613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-19482199715480377502008-10-11T18:34:00.000-04:002008-10-11T18:34:00.000-04:00So someone else invested in Mac's book? I thought...So someone else invested in Mac's book? I thought I was the only one.<BR/><BR/>I blogged extensively about how Mac has written a book that tells pastors to not do what he precisely HAS done to our church. Go back to my articles in May and June and you can see my comments on this book.<BR/><BR/>This is another significant source of revenue for Mac, since many of the SBC seminaries have this as required reading, including Liberty University. So sad that Mac can live himself according to the precepts.FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.com