tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post5523401658542290737..comments2024-03-23T22:54:58.661-04:00Comments on FBC Jax Watchdogs: Church Discipline - FBC Jax Style - Part 1FBC Jax Watchdoghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comBlogger43125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-36584279296075709672008-12-07T22:00:00.000-05:002008-12-07T22:00:00.000-05:00Watchdog is Mac devoid of wisdom? He would not ev...Watchdog is Mac devoid of wisdom? He would not even go to 11:51 and talk things over. What kind of pastor is he? No love, no compassion, no desire to make things right. Just, you are guilty 11:51!<BR/><BR/>I feel sorry for the poor members at FBC JAX. They know what Mac is and they stay there praying things will improve.<BR/><BR/>Well have they improved? Are they going to get better? Maybe!<BR/><BR/>Maybe if Mac gets rid of this PURPOSE DRIVEN GUY MAURILIO and starts running the church himself, maybe. Mac told us in the beginning that there are certain things that he can't do. Rick Warren said the same thing. <BR/><BR/>Well maybe being a PASTOR is one of the things Mac can't do. We don't know. Maybe all that Mac can do is teach. What we do know is that things are looking pretty bad.<BR/><BR/>Can Mac Repent? Sure.<BR/><BR/> Will he?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-22993826001278436472008-12-07T18:47:00.000-05:002008-12-07T18:47:00.000-05:00Dr.Dog.......WORSE and WORSE.....Brunson is nothin...Dr.Dog.......WORSE and WORSE.....Brunson is nothing but a FRAUD acting out what he thinks it means to be a pastor....He lords the position over the Lord's sheep as though they belong to him clearly against the direction of the Scriptures[1Pet.5:1-3]....This guy is not going to change because he believes he is right and everybody else is wrong...Brunson believes that he is being persecuted for serving Christ when in fact he is abusing and fleecing the faithful.....I watched on TV his sermon about Joseph from last week and his feign attempt at being emotionally overcome by the story....RIDICULOUS....This guy is a piece of work....I also read Brumley's story in the paper,an as expected he wouldn't dare tell the truth and the true reason for this blog....Too all you people who believe Brunson and his henchmen can be approached with civility....The proof is in the handling of the falsely accused members wife....I repeat no TRUE MAN of God would rape a Church for multiple hundreds of thousands dollars to preach the glorious Gospel in which supposedly he has been called and compelled to proclaim....BRUNSON IS A HIRELING PLAIN AND SIMPLE...Take away his money and you'll see just how committed to Jesus Christ and the Gospel he really is......WORSE AND WORSE Dr.Dog.... WORSE AND WORSE!!!!!!it is writtenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01714871619485847739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-52829762142773950992008-12-07T01:09:00.000-05:002008-12-07T01:09:00.000-05:00I just find this all anti-Christ.Yeah, I said that...I just find this all anti-Christ.<BR/>Yeah, I said that.<BR/><BR/>Why? Because no matter what 11:51 did or did not do, nothing warranted the punishment towards his wife.<BR/><BR/>Condemn someone because of "association"?<BR/><BR/>Well then you need to condemn Jesus too. Look who He associated with. Me.<BR/><BR/>Just sayin'.<BR/>oc.ochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00910693449008506409noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-2782398914489601152008-12-06T20:48:00.000-05:002008-12-06T20:48:00.000-05:00Christa,None of us can fully understand the abuse,...Christa,<BR/><BR/>None of us can fully understand the abuse, trials and tribulations you have experienced under the leadership of SBC leadership. We know your years of exposing these evils disguised as God's elite have met with unbelievable opposition and ridicule; but we, as the few in the know, realize and recognize those in power to be the subjects of evil represented by their leader, Satan.<BR/><BR/>Blessings:Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-8699656562411613112008-12-06T20:16:00.000-05:002008-12-06T20:16:00.000-05:00Christa,Yeah, the perversion goes on.It's all beca...Christa,<BR/>Yeah, the perversion goes on.<BR/>It's all because we won't come to grips with Galatians 3:28. Until the people of God rise up and realize the concept that a pastor is no more special to the Lord than a mere "pew sitter" is, then the abuse will continue because of the idea of office and station which never had no business in the life of the church, but yet is something sent from Satan. <BR/><BR/>If our churches were run biblically, then there would be no<BR/>tactics, no intimidation, no need for cover up. <BR/><BR/>Amd no abuse.ochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00910693449008506409noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-86824197984652723372008-12-06T20:08:00.000-05:002008-12-06T20:08:00.000-05:00Forget Matthew 18, the discipline has. They are s...Forget Matthew 18, the discipline has. They are self-serving, spineless and self-absorbed in sering an ungodly leader.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-65429892991668565722008-12-06T20:05:00.000-05:002008-12-06T20:05:00.000-05:00Krista Brown:Thank you for your post. Your insigh...Krista Brown:<BR/><BR/>Thank you for your post. Your insight into these hideous situations is valued and appreciated. <BR/><BR/>Where were the so called "concerned men of God at FBCJ" when Darrell Gilyard was being promoted and part of the inner circle of SBC and FBCJ with his connections to the past pastor? <BR/><BR/>Please continue with the diligence we so much admire and appreciate in bringing pastor and clergy abuse to the limelight.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-21178341393374569772008-12-06T19:45:00.000-05:002008-12-06T19:45:00.000-05:00Different context - I know - but there are basic p...Different context - I know - but there are basic parallels in the lack of clergy accountability. I've heard countless stories of Baptist clergy sex abuse victims who were hammered over the head with Matthew 18. Then they wound up being retraumatized and even more wounded by the purported "process." Nowadays, whenever I hear about "Matthew 18" being spouted by Southern Baptist pastors, ministers, and deacons, I figure that, in reality, they're using it as nothing more than a code-word for "church intimidation tactics" and "church cover-up."<BR/><BR/>Anon 11:51 - My sympathies to you and your wife and your family. There is no excuse for the hurt that's been heaped onto you.Christa Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04560409585720043015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-64242081862069784412008-12-06T19:24:00.000-05:002008-12-06T19:24:00.000-05:00Lin: We agree on the principles. If you will notic...Lin: We agree on the principles. If you will notice several things stated as "tongue in cheek" so to speak, such as "supposed authority". Jesus is the head of the church, this is my point that man takes the "authority" unto himself even against scripture. We agree that "the church" is not the BODY of Believers that are the True Church. I believe we agree on points we just say the same thing differently. Blessings to you. And above all I wish Jesus Christ to be glorified. I wish to hurt no one with words here, only to bring scripture and reality to the fore.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-77706388806168203842008-12-06T18:04:00.000-05:002008-12-06T18:04:00.000-05:00""Unpacking forgiveness" (?). I am not clear as to...""Unpacking forgiveness" (?). I am not clear as to your statement here. But fellowship was not mentioned in my original blog.'<BR/><BR/>It is a book that teaches what the bible really teaches about forgiveness that is not taught in most churches today.<BR/><BR/> "If we apply this to the church today then the responsibility lies with the pastor as the "supposed authority" to reach out with reconciliation, or explaination to resolve a problem IF he perceives one requiring church discipline."<BR/><BR/>That is a fallacy. The pastor is NOT an authority. We have made it into an office and we cannot see past that. He is SUPPOSED to be a member of the body with a spiritual gift for preaching/teaching. Elders are simply the spiritually mature. Not a title conferred by men. Everyone who is truly saved recognizes the spirutally mature. They oversee...they don't 'lord it over'. Any discipline that must be done is done with tears in thier eyes and a goal of salvation for the true sinner. (see 1 Corin 5). You will see in this passage that Paul is instructing the WHOLE church to deal with this sexually immoral person. Notjust elders. Any discipline in the Body is to include the entire body. <BR/><BR/>The only authority in the Body is Jesus Christ and the Word. Humans in the Body have no authority over other believers. That is why we are called a Holy Priesthood.<BR/><BR/>My point in all of this is that this church is not a true body of Christ. And Brunson is a hirling.<BR/><BR/><BR/>" He, as the pastor should never take a step toward church discipline, where he sends someone out under his authority to discipline a member, without having first followed the pattern set forth in Matt: l8. The pastor must first obey Matt: l8, before requiring the member to do so. "<BR/><BR/>Was Brunson sinned against personally by one of the other members of the Body?<BR/><BR/>It does not sound like it. Sounds like Brunson and his cronies are the ones sinning against another member.<BR/><BR/>Why would anyone stay at a place like this? Stupid question considering a whole bunch of people once drank poisoned kool aid because their 'pastor' told them to.<BR/><BR/><BR/>"Sending two persons to an unsuspecting church member with a accusation, without having tried himself to correct the problem, is not scriptural. As in this case, it is also unscriptual in requiring a member to meet with 6 other men who have NO PART in the dispute other than being brought into it by the pastor in the form of a "tribunal". The pastor still has not met with the "accused". The accused is being asked to"repent" without meeting his accuser and without an opportunity to correct or explain the position that he is being accused. Also he is being asked to meet this tribunal without anyone else present. This is also unscriptual."<BR/><BR/>It is spiritual abuse. It is a star chamber...a kangeroo court that has nothing to do with the Body of Christ. <BR/><BR/>" As to unconditional forgiveness: The Lord is the only one that can truly "unconditionally forgive". Man in a sinful unregenerated body is not capable of doing this without the work of the Holy Spirit. The problem is always forgetting a wrong. Which stays in the earthly human mind."<BR/><BR/>Sorry I did not communicate clearly. We can 'forgive' someone who sins against us but if they do not repent and are continually wicked, they are in danger of hell. My point was we can forgive but we cannot fellowship/reconile with those who do evil deeds and call themselves a brother.<BR/><BR/>The so-called 'brothers' here are doing evil deeds. Worse, they are doing them in the Name of Christ. They should be quaking in thier boots but they are blind.<BR/><BR/>"Another unfortunate side effect in this particular is this: The action being taken here will also apply to this mans wife and children, this is not scriptural as the wife and children are deemed guilty by being his family. A note of history: This is not the French Revolution, where entire families were sent to the guillotine!"<BR/><BR/>This man is wise to run away from these hirlings. It is not the Body of Christ. <BR/><BR/>LinAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-50515825944881031292008-12-06T16:45:00.000-05:002008-12-06T16:45:00.000-05:002:11 Anon:As far as the offices of one believer ov...2:11 Anon:<BR/>As far as the offices of one believer over another. You are correct, however, in most churches especially Baptist, its the preacher that is No. 1, Trustees are No. 2, Deacons No. 3, and members next, depending on how much money they give. Unfortunately, this is the church age today rather than the Bibilical way. One of the main reasons why churches are failing today.<BR/>It will only get worse since man is hungry for power, money, status, influence, position, etc,etc. All worldly aims. I believe we are in the age of the "falling away" of the church spoken of in 2 Thess. Chp. 2 Vs. 3.<BR/>The inaccesibility of a pastor is his problem. This is exactly the point. The pastor refuses to conform to his responsibility as laid out in Matt. l8. The Word still stands.<BR/>The Body of Believers is, the SAVED body of believers that will be resurrected. There are saved people in every denomination. The Body of Believers is not A church group as there are lost and saved people in every church. As I am sure you will agree the Body of Believers are ALL who trust Jesus Christ and His Shed Blood on the Cross for the forgiveness of their sins. And who look for His return.<BR/><BR/>"Unpacking forgiveness" (?). I am not clear as to your statement here. But fellowship was not mentioned in my original blog. I was explaining that in this passage to the JEWS (no mention of pre-church in the scripture here). If we apply this to the church today then the responsibility lies with the pastor as the "supposed authority" to reach out with reconciliation, or explaination to resolve a problem IF he perceives one requiring church discipline. He, as the pastor should never take a step toward church discipline, where he sends someone out under his authority to discipline a member, without having first followed the pattern set forth in Matt: l8. The pastor must first obey Matt: l8, before requiring the member to do so. Sending two persons to an unsuspecting church member with a accusation, without having tried himself to correct the problem, is not scriptural. As in this case, it is also unscriptual in requiring a member to meet with 6 other men who have NO PART in the dispute other than being brought into it by the pastor in the form of a "tribunal". The pastor still has not met with the "accused". The accused is being asked to"repent" without meeting his accuser and without an opportunity to correct or explain the position that he is being accused. Also he is being asked to meet this tribunal without anyone else present. This is also unscriptual. This group of 6, have already "decided" that they will represent the pastors position, and it is clear that the "accused" will have no chance to explain anything that he is concerned about. In want of a better term, this would be a "Kangaroo court". And unless you are prepared to be humiliated and "beg for some type of forgivenes,to be forever chastened and watched, it is a done deal. You must usually leave. This meeting is just a formality to "notify you".<BR/><BR/>As to unconditional forgiveness: The Lord is the only one that can truly "unconditionally forgive". Man in a sinful unregenerated body is not capable of doing this without the work of the Holy Spirit. The problem is always forgetting a wrong. Which stays in the earthly human mind.<BR/>Agree that Matt. 18 doesn't work in the church, as I have stated above, and in my original blog. One problem being that pastors and lay persons alike try to apply Matt.18, to others and not to themselves as I have explained. This is the problem, as I see it, currently.<BR/>In most of these cases, the pastor, himself, does not obey Matt. 18. As this one has not.<BR/><BR/>Another unfortunate side effect in this particular is this: The action being taken here will also apply to this mans wife and children, this is not scriptural as the wife and children are deemed guilty by being his family. A note of history: This is not the French Revolution, where entire families were sent to the guillotine!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-7348272517049459402008-12-06T14:37:00.000-05:002008-12-06T14:37:00.000-05:00"There are NO offices that elevate one believer ov..."There are NO offices that elevate one believer over another. There are only functions that gifting from the Holy Spirit. Not titles conferred by men."<BR/><BR/>Amen, Lin. Levels and offices are but a construct of men. The Bible knows nothing concerning different levels of status. (Galatians 3:28).<BR/>All are one in Christ Jesus.ochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00910693449008506409noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-2327679083354796652008-12-06T14:11:00.000-05:002008-12-06T14:11:00.000-05:00"Two things needed for clarification. The book of ..."Two things needed for clarification. The book of Matthew is written to the Jews. So be very careful when ascribing some things to the resurrected Christ that pertains to the pre-resurrected Christ. "<BR/><BR/>Huh? It was also written 'pre'church. The principles still apply. Between brothers and sisters, there is NO clergy-laity in scripture. There are NO offices that elevate one believer over another. There are only functions that gifting from the Holy Spirit. Not titles conferred by men.<BR/><BR/>The problem is that the one sinned against by a mega church pastor cannot even get near him to discuss it.<BR/><BR/>That is why it is not a true Body of Christ and cannot operate as a true Body.<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>"A. There is unconditional forgiveness to any lost person or any Christian who sins against you in a personal matter." <BR/><BR/>Huh? Forgiveness and reconcilation/fellowship are two different things. A great study on forgiveness (the most misunderstood concept in Christendom and much abused by many self seeking pastors) is Unpacking Forgiveness.<BR/><BR/>Matthew 18 does NOT work in hierarchical mega churches. I wrote a blog post about what it looks like:<BR/><BR/>http://coffeetradernews.blogspot.com/2007/09/adventures-of-matthew-18-in-mega.htmlLinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04723395060585207854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-77665200171648247102008-12-06T13:11:00.000-05:002008-12-06T13:11:00.000-05:00Big Tuna,where do you see about the article tomorr...Big Tuna,<BR/><BR/>where do you see about the article tomorrow?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-51313606379232706202008-12-06T12:54:00.000-05:002008-12-06T12:54:00.000-05:00Dog, just saw in the Times Onion that there is a ...Dog, just saw in the Times Onion that there is a pience in Sundays paper about folks like you (us). Have you been interviewed? Wonder if your blog will be mentioned by name? What great publicity. Imagine the hits after this story breaks.The Dogs Doghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09425531149766027609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-56824628495841463952008-12-06T11:26:00.000-05:002008-12-06T11:26:00.000-05:00WD, in your profile, your email address is not sho...WD, in your profile, your email address is not showing.<BR/><BR/><A HREF="fbcjaxwatchdog@gmail.com" REL="nofollow">WD's Email Address</A><BR/><BR/>If you wish to get google gmail accounts:<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://mail.google.com/mail/signup" REL="nofollow">New Google GMail Accounts</A><BR/><BR/>-----------------------------------<BR/><A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/For_Want_of_a_Nail" REL="nofollow">Wiki: For Want of a Nail (proverb)</A><BR/><I>For want of a nail the shoe was lost.<BR/>For want of a shoe the horse was lost.<BR/>For want of a horse the rider was lost.<BR/>For want of a rider the battle was lost.<BR/>For want of a battle the kingdom was lost.<BR/>And all for the want of a horseshoe nail.</I><BR/><BR/>For want of answering some anon questions to pastor ...Rameshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09728392311602332613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-15018411679218701712008-12-06T11:06:00.000-05:002008-12-06T11:06:00.000-05:00Anon re. bylaws:Go to yahoo.com, get an email addr...Anon re. bylaws:<BR/><BR/>Go to yahoo.com, get an email address with a nondescript name, and scan the documents and email them to the watchdog if you wish. Email address is in watchdog profile.FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-63938126503726511592008-12-06T11:02:00.000-05:002008-12-06T11:02:00.000-05:00I'm an outsider to this whole dispute at your chur...I'm an outsider to this whole dispute at your church, but have seen similar behavior elsewhere.<BR/><BR/>Your pastor seems somewhat frightened at the idea of dissent in the congregation. It may be that he's concerned that a sufficiently high level of dissent may result in his removal.<BR/><BR/>What is the value of the assets of your church? Is it possible you have a group of insiders who would see a profit potential in driving off most of the congregation and then appropriating the assets of the church for personal benefit?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-21835178103178220282008-12-06T10:50:00.000-05:002008-12-06T10:50:00.000-05:00Re Matt 18:15-17.Please study and give more attent...Re Matt 18:15-17.<BR/><BR/>Please study and give more attention to what Matthew wrote being inspired by the Holy Spirit when practicing church discipline.<BR/><BR/>"Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican".<BR/><BR/>1. Observe the person who has been offended goes ALONE to the person who trespassed against him. No one is to accompany that one person since it is no one else's responsibility as they are not involved in the dispute. If the dispute can be remedied by that first meeting no one else will ever know about it. However, if he would not hear, then another meeting is required.<BR/><BR/>2. Then, take one or two more with YOU (which would make two or three) witnesses, if one took one or he chose two more to go with him. Note let every word be established. Such as: did something get stolen; what was it that was stolen, color of it, etc. Who lied: what exactly was said to whom about you, etc. What sin was committed against you, name it and all facts,etc.<BR/>And if the one who made the trespass neglects to hear the two or three what happens next?<BR/><BR/>3. Tell it to the whole church assembly and if he doesn't hear them then let him be as a heathen man and a publican.<BR/><BR/>Two things needed for clarification. The book of Matthew is written to the Jews. So be very careful when ascribing some things to the resurrected Christ that pertains to the pre-resurrected Christ. A. There is unconditional forgiveness to any lost person or any Christian who sins against you in a personal matter. It's up to you as a Christian to first go and attempt to reconcile that brother and NO ONE ELSE. If you send someone else first you have disobeyed the Word of God as it is clearly only between two people. This is why the Holy Spirit gives us a perfect manner in which to deal with faults between individuals.<BR/><BR/>B. Conditional forgiveness is based on the person repenting of his deed and making things right: returning stolen property, telling another third person that they lied about the situation, or make good on whatever transpired and never practice that sin again.<BR/><BR/>Having said this and I'm trying to make this short and simple, do not forget vs.34-35 "And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespass". This passage would apply to ALL in the church, whether it be pastor, deacon, or general member. Even more so to the one in authority that is able to control all circumstances regarding the church, members and any discipline that is handed down. The burden lies with the pastor first to resolve the problem within the spiritual guidelines of scripture.<BR/><BR/>I believe we all have been to I John 1:9. And we need to go there regularly especially when things, circumstances, and people act toward one another in these trying days. God help us.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-30909032931533544832008-12-06T10:29:00.000-05:002008-12-06T10:29:00.000-05:00Unbelievable!!! I wonder if this disciplinary com...Unbelievable!!! I wonder if this disciplinary committee is checking on any members who might be hanging out at bars and getting skunk drunk, or those who are out committing adultery or anything like that. Or are they just bullying those who dare to read or post on this blog? How upside-down.Kyle B Gulledgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04224370533761258824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-24766330872076414732008-12-05T22:36:00.000-05:002008-12-05T22:36:00.000-05:00FOUNDERS MINISTRIES BLOG: WSJ on church discipline...<A HREF="http://www.founders.org/blog/2008/01/wsj-on-church-discipline.html" REL="nofollow">FOUNDERS MINISTRIES BLOG: WSJ on church discipline</A><BR/><I>When a person is removed from the membership of a church in keeping with our Lord's teaching in Matthew 18, he or she is not to be "shunned." Neither should they be forbidden to sit under the public preaching of the gospel. They need the gospel and, while we cannot treat them as members any longer, we should welcome them the same way we would a "Gentile or tax collector" (in other words, an unbeliever). We recently had a member who was excommunicated several years ago show up for a worship service. I was glad he was there and told him so. I prayed for him during the worship, that God would capture his heart with the gospel. This is far from the caricature that is portrayed in the WSJ.<BR/><BR/>There is a difference in church discipline and "pastor discipline." I have known of a few cases where overly zealous pastors tried to remove problem members in the name of church discipline. But, because their congregations had not been adequately taught and were not fully on board with the process, it really wasn't "church" discipline at all.<BR/><BR/>One of the first things a faithful pastor must do when he finds that a church has neglected the practice of corrective church discipline is teach. He must carefully explain passages like the one cited above and 1 Corinthians 5. Then he must teach some more. And then some more. He must lead the membership to see and embrace what the Bible says about the integrity of a church's identity and testimony as the body of Christ. Only after a congregatoin has been adequately taught can they be expected to properly carry out the practice of church discipline.<BR/><BR/>Where this goal is intentionally pursued with patience and love, the practice often can be reinstituted in a healthy, God-honoring way. This is one of the greatest needs in American evangelical churches in our day. While caricatures must be avoided and abusive practices must be rejected, the engagement of loving oversight and accountability breeds vitality and unity in a church.</I>Rameshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09728392311602332613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-37866494445791077612008-12-05T21:10:00.000-05:002008-12-05T21:10:00.000-05:00The Wall Street Journal: Banned From ChurchOn a qu...<A HREF="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120061470848399079.html?mod=weekend_leisure_banner_left" REL="nofollow">The Wall Street Journal: Banned From Church</A><BR/><I>On a quiet Sunday morning in June, as worshippers settled into the pews at Allen Baptist Church in southwestern Michigan, Pastor Jason Burrick grabbed his cellphone and dialed 911. When a dispatcher answered, the preacher said a former congregant was in the sanctuary. "And we need to, um, have her out A.S.A.P."<BR/><BR/><BR/>Half an hour later, 71-year-old Karolyn Caskey, a church member for nearly 50 years who had taught Sunday school and regularly donated 10% of her pension, was led out by a state trooper and a county sheriff's officer. One held her purse and Bible. The other put her in handcuffs. (Listen to the 911 call)<BR/><BR/>The charge was trespassing, but Mrs. Caskey's real offense, in her pastor's view, was spiritual. Several months earlier, when she had questioned his authority, he'd charged her with spreading "a spirit of cancer and discord" and expelled her from the congregation. "I've been shunned," she says.</I><BR/>-----------------------------------Rameshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09728392311602332613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-83313729647335758792008-12-05T18:37:00.000-05:002008-12-05T18:37:00.000-05:00The rope did not tighten so much when the posts we...The rope did not tighten so much when the posts were about Mac and the Brunson team per Se, it has become volatile after the WD called on individual lay leaders by name to step up and be accountable for lack of leadership and spineless efforts to demean the average congregant of FBCJ; they took it personal being named as part of the tearing-down of the legacy of the past. We know the past is the past and will never be as was, but it was proven success. The Brunson team cannot deliver as those in the past so he goes about using and abusing. The trustees, deacons, 210 and others are his map to enjoy his self-appointed, self-ordained, family and marketing driven agendas of taking over and bulldozing those in their way.<BR/><BR/>The members of the discipline committee who accused the brother as being the WD are part and parcel of this ungodly, now profit for self church. Individuals no longer are important.<BR/><BR/>Actually, these guys and ladies deserve what they are getting. I just cannot believe they are so very inept in discernment!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-35062643332163764912008-12-05T16:08:00.000-05:002008-12-05T16:08:00.000-05:00Some religious bigots are so good at quoting only ...Some religious bigots are so good at quoting only the scripture that backs up their arguments and from my experience, bap-tisssts are some of the most arrogant, know-it-alls at this (while they crouch behind their massive gluttonous bellies) Sorry Homer, I know you tried to loose weight.<BR/><BR/>Get off the Matt 18 crap and get real. Sorry Dog, some of these perps have me torqued up.The Dogs Doghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09425531149766027609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-63306435394897566052008-12-05T15:54:00.000-05:002008-12-05T15:54:00.000-05:00As per:Akin's 8 Theological Essentials for the SBC...As per:<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.founders.org/blog/2007/03/akins-8-theological-essentials-for-sbc.html" REL="nofollow">Akin's 8 Theological Essentials for the SBC</A><BR/><BR/>CAN THEOLOGICALLY DRIVEN PREACHING HELP RESCUE THE SBC?<BR/>By: Daniel L. Akin<BR/><BR/>3) The recovery of the lost jewels of church discipline and genuine disciple-making as essential marks of the Church.<BR/>Church discipline is clearly and repeatedly taught in the New Testament, yet most do not preach on it or practice it. Jesus addresses it in Matt. 18:15-20 and Paul does so several times in 1 Cor. 5:1-13; 2 Cor. 2:5-11; Gal. 6:1-2; and Titus 3:9-11.<BR/>Theologically it is to disobey the plain teachings of Scripture and ignore the necessity of church discipline in maintaining the purity of the church.<BR/>First, we must preach and teach our people what the Bible says about church discipline.<BR/>Second, we must begin to implement church discipline lovingly, wisely, gently, carefully and slowly.<BR/>Third, we must apply discipline to areas like absentee membership as well as the specific list provided by Paul in 1 Cor. 5.<BR/><BR/><B>I am sure this example of TDM will come in handy for the Premium Sessions of Pastors Conference 2009.</B>Rameshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09728392311602332613noreply@blogger.com