tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post596390934924909051..comments2024-03-23T22:54:58.661-04:00Comments on FBC Jax Watchdogs: Mac a "Historian"? More Evidence of his Difficulty Telling the TruthFBC Jax Watchdoghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comBlogger59125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-87519039507724821822008-07-20T15:44:00.000-04:002008-07-20T15:44:00.000-04:00anon,I am not knocking how you worship and believe...anon,<BR/><BR/>I am not knocking how you worship and believe you enjoy the way you were taught and how the Spirit leads but I don't think, even you would limit the working of the Holy Spirit to worship in only a manner you find acceptable.<BR/><BR/>I have served overseas as a missionary and know through first hand experience that many people of different cultures worship God in Spirit and Truth and never have experienced the things you mention, such as the "old time religion". Do you believe God is mocked when people in the villages along the Amazon worship God with drums, dance and high energy type styles? I don't.<BR/><BR/>How quickly we forget God is not a white, American born, grit eating southern God who despises those not like us. Of course I guess there are some who would like for Him to be.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-21697006208791155462008-07-19T12:13:00.000-04:002008-07-19T12:13:00.000-04:00Out with the old in with the NEW. So lets see what...Out with the old in with the NEW. So lets see whats needed in the church today:<BR/>1. Rock Band<BR/>2. Contemporary service<BR/>3. No more grandma stuff <BR/><BR/>Well, I got news for you. You just keep bringing that new stuff into the church and you won't have a church...you will have a NIGHT CLUB. Before long you will have a bar serving beer and wine. Next, you want even open a BIBLE. Once you start down that slippery slope you won't be able to stop it.<BR/><BR/>No I'm for that Old Time Religion. I'll take the piano, the fan (that went out with air conditioning, and some old hymns that bring one closer to the Lord. Rock Bands are loud and do not, I repeat do nothing to bring glory and honor to Jesus Christ. You have by your own admission decided that the ways of the past are old fashioned and do not work. Kinda like Dr Spock's theory in not spanking a child. Guess what that got us??<BR/><BR/>Its a shame you were not around 50-100 years ago like a lot of us older folk. It worked then and will continue to work if the pastors have any backbone. Try this for 50 years and then see a lot of former church buildings no longer doing church but selling antiques or converted into museums or torn down for the construction of new buildings. <BR/><BR/>The bible declares that there is nothing new under the Sun. Stay faithful and forget bringing the world style into a church that is to be effective in winning souls. You can fill Alltel stadium every night with a good act but the entertainment dies off real fast.<BR/><BR/>A strong sermon on a burning hell, a resurrected Christ will last forever. What are you attempting to satisfy the body or the spirit? Take your choice. Obviously a lot of these younger people also want watered down gospel. You know one must be modern and up to date. Don't upset anyone we just want to have fun and enjoy each others company.<BR/><BR/>Hybels has already admitted that the way they did it was wrong. So much for PD. It did not work and will not ever work.<BR/><BR/>The road to HELL is paved with many a good intention.<BR/><BR/>You forget one important fact. God gives all men a measure of faith. If they hear from the Holy Spirit that they need Jesus Christ they will come to Him and they won't be stirred by a rock and roll show or a comptemporary service. How many souls were led to Christ by the Beatles, Elvis, or Madonna? <BR/><BR/>Maybe you have not read about the coming of the END. Its called the end of days, last days, etc. We are in the Laodicean church age. Niether hot nor cold..just lukewarn.And why we are at it lets just get rid of that "ole" bible. After all grandma read that.<BR/><BR/>I Cor:l4:vs 33 "For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-12621669078730337242008-07-19T09:50:00.000-04:002008-07-19T09:50:00.000-04:00anon 9:31 stated: Dr Vines once said " If it is tr...anon 9:31 stated: Dr Vines once said " If it is true it ain't new, and if it is new it ain't true."<BR/><BR/>Since you use in your same post the idea of bringing contemporary stuff into the church and portray it as wrong how do you justify the things brought into the as we moved away from the primitive baptists. Things like: backs on our pews, pianos, updated songs, even pew fans (something considered by the primitive baptists as removing the suffering - and suffering is something they saw as good and the fans removed that).<BR/><BR/>Change will come and the bottom line ought not to be the difference in the presentation but the biblical foundation upon which all is being done.<BR/><BR/>Can we be biblical and use a rock band? I think so. Can we have contemporary services and honor God? Absolutely. Can we do the things of old like we are use to and still not worship correctly? You bet.<BR/><BR/>Making an argument over style says a lot about our willingness to not reach a lost world, except on our traditional terms.<BR/><BR/>You may not realize it but my generation does not want to do church like grandma, all dressed up in our 1950's style. If you remain there you will lose the next generation. I don't think that is what you want but be honest with reality. The upcoming generation is not as interested in doing church as we are in being the church.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-62923754080657080362008-07-18T21:31:00.000-04:002008-07-18T21:31:00.000-04:00I WILL REITERATE:Rick Warren of the PURPOSE DRIVEN...I WILL REITERATE:<BR/><BR/>Rick Warren of the PURPOSE DRIVEN MOVEMENT, has twisted scripture so much it has become normal for anyone in that movement to do likewise. Once you start telling half lies, it becomes easy to tell whole lies.<BR/><BR/>When you have compromised once it is easy to continue to compromise. It goes on and on and on.<BR/><BR/>First individual scriptures, then the intire word of God. Advocates of the many paraphase bibles say they believe in the inerrancy of the scripture but they have trouble with the authority of the bible. They can not even tell you which one is God's Word. Many do not even believe it is God breathed Word.<BR/><BR/>More compromise; they want to be in the world but not of the world but they bring the world into the Church. (small groups, rock bands, contemporary services, pentecostal music).<BR/><BR/>And you wonder that they can not tell the TRUTH FROM A LIE!!!<BR/><BR/>We could use a lot of scripture to prove a point but we all know the scripture. <BR/><BR/>We need to recognize who is behind all of this. It isn't Mac, It is't this Blog. IS IT?<BR/><BR/>What we need to do is get back to what has always worked and get on with serving the Lord.<BR/><BR/>Dr Vines once said " If it is true it ain't new, and if it is new it ain't true."<BR/><BR/>GOT IT???Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-83199526195509722372008-07-17T19:22:00.000-04:002008-07-17T19:22:00.000-04:00Note to Mac Brunson: If you're going to lie about ...Note to Mac Brunson: If you're going to lie about someone, lie about a person or case that's not immediately able to be checked. This Klouda case may be the biggest event in the past five years in the SBC. <BR/><BR/>You need to lie like Paige Patterson: he said he got such information from students but NEVER wrote any of it down, so of course it can't be checked (unless some graduates want to see their preaching jobs disintegrate.)<BR/><BR/>Then Patterson lies about a job offer, but it is not written down anywhere, so of course it casnnot be checked either. <BR/><BR/>THAT's how good liars lie, Brunson. Maybe you should start attending the IMB board meetings to pick up some pointers. <BR/><BR/>I'm sleeping real good these nights, Mr. Brunson. How're you sleeping? <BR/><BR/>Welcome from Hoptown, Ky.<BR/>SteveStevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11974834423398011393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-59335156995215585452008-07-17T14:56:00.000-04:002008-07-17T14:56:00.000-04:00Watchdog Said:Its so easy.Email the church's pasto...Watchdog Said:<BR/><BR/>Its so easy.<BR/><BR/>Email the church's pastor, and John Blount, Jr. asking that your membership be ended. Revoke and renounce your membership. Be sure to state it as total revokation of membership and all the privileges that it affords you.<BR/><BR/>Great Idea W.D. Lead the Way!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-67807586805586955652008-07-17T14:45:00.000-04:002008-07-17T14:45:00.000-04:00The by-laws are not binding on the members of the ...The by-laws are not binding on the members of the congregation in the real world. Period. If you are injured in any way at the church or by the church, those by-law limitations are worthless in a court of law. However, they are useful in trying to persuade or intimidate a poor helpless gullible sheep into believing he cannot sue for reimbursement of his losses suffered at the hands of a negligent church staff or leader. No court would hold anyone to some terms in a document they never read, never agreed to, and never signed. Period. No more need to waste time discussing that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-85994055303507822492008-07-17T13:48:00.000-04:002008-07-17T13:48:00.000-04:00Anonymous: July 17, 2008 10:27 AM said:"The civil ...Anonymous: July 17, 2008 10:27 AM said:<BR/>"The civil law says one is not excused because of ignorance of the (civil) law. This does not hold true for a church that doesn't inform anyone of the content of by-laws they are under.<BR/><BR/>I do not believe FBCJ by-laws supersede the 14th Amendment of the United States Constitution. Each citizen is "guaranteed" equal protection under the law."<BR/><BR/>July 17, 2008 10:27 AM<BR/><BR/>Ask Sheri Klouda if this worked for her?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-21944114028346482772008-07-17T12:58:00.000-04:002008-07-17T12:58:00.000-04:00I once esteemed ministers of the faith, preachers,...I once esteemed ministers of the faith, preachers, God's man. I was confident they would certainly live up to what they preached. Surely, they would not dare preach something to their congregants that they did not do themselves. Certainly they were above pettiness. And would never manipulate facts or circumstances for their own edification or gain.<BR/>Surely, a preacher would never use the church as a stepping stone to personal wealth, or play "church politics", giving favor to the rich and elite over the average member that can only do him the honor of praying for him. Surely, there are not "preachers" like that. And surely, they would always be TRUTHFUL.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Well, you learn something everyday!!<BR/><BR/>To be fair, there are still some very Godly men serving the Lord, and their fellow man somewhere.<BR/>Most of these men are unknown. They don't "blow" their own horn. They make little money. But the Lord knows who they are, and their crowns await them in heaven!!!!<BR/>God bless you "real" preachers!!! Well done good and faithful servants.<BR/><BR/>By the way I have known and been blessed by some "real" preachers.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-28697950924661354802008-07-17T12:02:00.000-04:002008-07-17T12:02:00.000-04:00Agree with anon 10:27 -- if no notice of the bylaw...Agree with anon 10:27 -- if no notice of the bylaws is given to members, they cannot be held to abide by them if they wish to sue. Mac can waive them all he wants as a defense to a suit, but that will get him nowhere.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-7993718573650429782008-07-17T10:30:00.000-04:002008-07-17T10:30:00.000-04:00Robert - anonymous. Anonymous. Do yourself a huge ...Robert - anonymous. Anonymous. Do yourself a huge favor, stay anonymous.FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-37465370063268950132008-07-17T10:27:00.001-04:002008-07-17T10:27:00.001-04:00If anyone now joins FBCJ, they are ruled and gover...If anyone now joins FBCJ, they are ruled and governed by a set of by-laws they have never seen, and most likely do not know exist. Should they not be presented at the time they join a set of by-laws and have them explained to them. Then ask the new member if they want to be goverened by same by-laws? Not to tell a new member about the rules they are governed by, is misrepresentation of the church. How can someone agree and accept "terms" they are not aware of. I don't think this would hold up in court. At the very least it is "sneeky" on behalf of the leadership. You have a great portion of membership now that do not know the "terms" of their membership. <BR/><BR/>The civil law says one is not excused because of ignorance of the (civil) law. This does not hold true for a church that doesn't inform anyone of the content of by-laws they are under. <BR/><BR/>I do not believe FBCJ by-laws supersede the 14th Amendment of the United States Constitution. Each citizen is "guaranteed" equal protection under the law.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-8466238160177210252008-07-17T10:27:00.000-04:002008-07-17T10:27:00.000-04:00I don't have a copy of the Bylaws, nor do I want o...I don't have a copy of the Bylaws, nor do I want one. I trust my church and the leadership in the church.<BR/><BR/>What if someone does not have a computer or a library card? Then they cannot fax a copy to you. <BR/><BR/>As for the Anon who asked about political analogies....the only thing I can come up with is that Watchdog tends to be flip flop back and forth on issues like Kerry did back in '04.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-49978688632555060962008-07-17T10:21:00.000-04:002008-07-17T10:21:00.000-04:00Great idea Robert.You scan them, email them to me,...Great idea Robert.<BR/><BR/>You scan them, email them to me, and I'll eat my ham and cheese while I read them, then we can blog back and forth here about them.<BR/><BR/>Send them to<BR/><BR/>fbcjaxwatchdog@gmail.com<BR/><BR/>I'm waiting!<BR/><BR/>Keep in mind: if you send them to me, they will be on the blog for everyone to read faster than you can say "Let me tell you something".FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-51722815784651539092008-07-17T10:12:00.000-04:002008-07-17T10:12:00.000-04:00What if someone will only share the bylaws with yo...What if someone will only share the bylaws with you through a lunch meeting? Will you go to lunch with them then?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-76173302938633467672008-07-17T09:58:00.000-04:002008-07-17T09:58:00.000-04:00Would not this case of Ms. Klouda and the action t...Would not this case of Ms. Klouda and the action taken by Patterson and the seminary smack of LEGALISM? The school had no problem placing her on staff and allowing her to teach for 6 years, approaching tenure. Why at this point (approaching tenure) did they suddenly have a problem? Are they saying it took them 6 years to suddenly "realize" that she should not teach men? I suggest other reasons such as tenure was the impetus of this gross injustice.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-59085179344295486462008-07-17T09:52:00.000-04:002008-07-17T09:52:00.000-04:00An interesting angle...There are credible reports ...An interesting angle...<BR/><BR/>There are credible reports that our church has modified the bylaws of the church to read that all members agree not to file a lawsuit against that the church and agree to have disputes settled by arbitration or with some kind of committee within the church or the SBC. These may have been part of the changes in the December 2007 vote to change the bylaws which were never explained by the pastor, and were not widely disseminated to the members.<BR/><BR/>I'll admit to all you "WD accountability seekers"...that this an assumption, not putting it out as "TRUTH"...but its all we have at this point. No copy of the bylaws. And I won't ask the pastor what is in the bylaws or what his interpretation of the bylaws or their impact on me, because I wouldn't believe him if he told me - he doesn't handle the truth very well. I won't have lunch either with anyone...I want to see the bylaws, and I want the membership to have open access to them.<BR/><BR/>One of the possible ramifications of this bylaw change would be how it impacts a members ability to sue the church should their child be harmed at camp due to the full or partial negligence of FBC Jax. Would this mean if my child is harmed while at summer camp at the negligence of the church, I have forfeited my legal right to sue the church? <BR/><BR/>I can hear the chorus from Mac and his band of merry lay leaders dancing in unison in their "Fresh" aprons: "Oh Mr. Recalcitant, not at all, this has to do with just disputes within the church, and why would you want to sue your church anyways? If you'd open your Bible and read 1 Cor 6....." and you know the rest of the story. I wouldn't believe them. I WOULD believe my attorney if I had a copy of the bylaws and he interpreted them for me. But I do not have a copy of the new and improved bylaws.<BR/><BR/>Bottom line:<BR/><BR/>I believe that if any FBC Jax parent is sending their child to camp, unless the church decides to allow free and open examination of the bylaws parents should reserve their legal right to sue the church should he/she be harmed through the negligence of FBC Jax. <BR/><BR/>How should we do this?<BR/><BR/>Its so easy.<BR/><BR/>Email the church's pastor, and John Blount, Jr. asking that your membership be ended. Revoke and renounce your membership. Be sure to state it as total revokation of membership and all the privileges that it affords you.<BR/><BR/>Drastic? Ridiculous? Well, which is more drastic and ridiculous - the church leadership possibly revoking your legal right to seek damages from a church that has harmed you or your children (churches have never harmed children have they??) WITHOUT CLEARLY TELLING YOU, or you in return revoking your membership to protect your family's rights?<BR/><BR/>If the church leadership is going to play so loosely with the "rules" as to propose MAJOR by law changes and not explain their ramifications to the members, then we must in turn we wise as serpents as well...and do what is in the best interests of our children.<BR/><BR/>Make sure that you are NOT a member of FBC Jax if your kid goes to summer camp.<BR/><BR/>If you want to join again, walk the aisle in August after camp...I'm sure our church can use the numbers.FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-64259897226749809442008-07-17T09:42:00.000-04:002008-07-17T09:42:00.000-04:00If a pastors wife on staff of a church, gives any ...If a pastors wife on staff of a church, gives any orders or directions to men on the staff or ushers & deacons regarding any matter of the church, would she be violating the same principal as Ms. Klouda was accused of?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-43910952427361341362008-07-17T09:38:00.000-04:002008-07-17T09:38:00.000-04:00Just an observation concerning the Klouda case. If...Just an observation concerning the Klouda case. If she is denied to teach shouldn't all those men that she taught have to retake those courses? Otherwise, when they make statements that they learned from her WOULDN'T THAT BE WRONG? I suspect that her "gift of teaching" was taken away from her.Mrs. Klouda was not teaching religion or any theology based course, in a church. She was teaching language in a seminary-college level setting. Many women teach men in colleges. The president of my own college was a woman.<BR/><BR/>Odd, that the former president and trustees thought she was perfectly fit to teach Hebrew and Aramaic when she was hired and placed on staff!!!Why didn't they see a problem then? <BR/><BR/>Some of my best teachers were women. I cannot believe anyone teaching at a university (any of them) would desire to remove her on "pastoral authority". Isn't it strange that Paul accepted Timothy just the way he was grounded and perfected in the faith taught to him by LOIS AND EUNICE????Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-40523360945501062992008-07-17T08:58:00.000-04:002008-07-17T08:58:00.000-04:00and people tell us to 'go talk to the pastor to ge...and people tell us to 'go talk to the pastor to get answers to your questions'<BR/><BR/>Why would I do that when he lies right to the face of thousands of people how could I believe he is going to tell me the truth in his office? A guy who lies at his pulpit will lie in his office.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-80047044250473763872008-07-17T07:24:00.000-04:002008-07-17T07:24:00.000-04:0012:39 AM: Talk about Kool Aid!!! Anyone listening ...12:39 AM: Talk about Kool Aid!!! Anyone listening to the Purpose Driven Drivel at church is drinking Kool Aid. And they call it preaching from God!!! Please don't blame God with this stuff. And as to being a political "junkie", I would say you are full of political "junk" if you don't like McCain. (I know what a political junkie is, just for the record).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-46445735926179391522008-07-17T00:39:00.000-04:002008-07-17T00:39:00.000-04:00WD - your analysis of Mac's advocating associating...WD - your analysis of Mac's advocating associating with non-Christians while throwing "troubled" believers under the bus sparked something in my mind. Isn't this the same approach John McCain uses -- reaching "across the aisle" to "get things done", but distancing himself from members of his own party any time any one of them says something that might not be the most popular opinion? (See, most recently, Phil Gramm or Mitt Romney.)<BR/><BR/>Just an interesting similarity I noticed. Robert, I know you are a political junkie like myself -- any thoughts on this? Or are you drinking the McCain kool-aid too...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-35819665827237526122008-07-16T23:06:00.000-04:002008-07-16T23:06:00.000-04:00Fresh: When Mac came here he came bent on makeing...Fresh: <BR/><BR/>When Mac came here he came bent on makeing FBCJ a PURPOSE DRIVEN CHURCH.<BR/><BR/>The series on Fresh was right out of Rick Warren's PURPOSE DRIVEN LIFE book. Mac linked the FRESH SERIES with bringing in all of the BIBLE TRANSLATIONS. <BR/><BR/>Both Brunson and Warren said that the different translations were use TO AVOID MISSING NUANCES AND SHADES OF MEANING. ALSO, THEY SAID IT WAS USED TO"SEE GOD'S TRUTH IN NEW AND FRESH WAYS". <BR/><BR/>My opinion, all of these different translations are nothing but PARAPHRASES.<BR/><BR/>The Southern Baptist Convention, since joining hands with THE PURPOSE DRIVEN movement has seen BAPTISMS DECLINE, AND A HUGE LOSS OF MEMBERS.<BR/><BR/>It is so bad that at the CONVENTION this year the preachers were encouraged to go out and try to bring back some of it's DEPARTED MEMBERS.<BR/><BR/>Those departed members were called, by Rick Warren," BLESSED SUBTRACTION". <BR/><BR/>SO YOU WANT TO BE PURPOSE DRIVEN?<BR/><BR/>WWW.sacredsandwich.com/warren_scripture.htmAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-32897972111509443552008-07-16T22:57:00.001-04:002008-07-16T22:57:00.001-04:00How was Smyrl's sermon tonight?How was Smyrl's sermon tonight?FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-88957640327573677712008-07-16T22:57:00.000-04:002008-07-16T22:57:00.000-04:00Anon: You can hear Mac's sermon at his 501(c)3 web...Anon: You can hear Mac's sermon at his 501(c)3 website:<BR/><BR/>www.inlight.orgFBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.com