tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post6558030193360872368..comments2024-03-23T22:54:58.661-04:00Comments on FBC Jax Watchdogs: REVISED AGAIN: The Brunson-Collins-Holland LinkFBC Jax Watchdoghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comBlogger114125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-73971540348780770262008-06-02T18:07:00.000-04:002008-06-02T18:07:00.000-04:00You people are totally off base.JD Collins is not ...You people are totally off base.<BR/>JD Collins is not a builder, he is a developer. <BR/>Collins Builders (not JD's company)is a builder--but a residential builder- not commerical. <BR/>I just went to their website and saw that they only build smaller, production type houses.<BR/>So they would have nothing to do with any building the church did.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-2065675728729709092008-06-02T18:00:00.000-04:002008-06-02T18:00:00.000-04:00Watchdog...An answer to your question"Did Mac Brun...Watchdog...<BR/>An answer to your question<BR/>"Did Mac Brunson know about this $300,000 land gift before he accepted the job as Pastor of First Baptist Church Jacksonville?"<BR/><BR/>Nope he didn't. <BR/><BR/>And The Collins have been members of FBC for nearly 30 years. Serving under Dr L, Jr. and Dr Vines. And gave them wonderful gifts as well... BECAUSE (and brace yourself here) THEY CAN! <BR/>The Collins are generous because they love Jesus. Period.<BR/><BR/>So, back off of this faithful family- who just happens to enjoy blessing their pastors.<BR/>Your speculations just plant seeds of doubt in others that these men don't deserve.<BR/>If you have something you want to ask them- call them up! Ask!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-82483638083836425642008-05-17T23:29:00.000-04:002008-05-17T23:29:00.000-04:00Anon(s) posting the above posts today...you might ...Anon(s) posting the above posts today...you might want to consider reposting these under the current article, since many visitors to the site only read the most recent article and not these older ones.FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-52308286005855497932008-05-17T22:15:00.000-04:002008-05-17T22:15:00.000-04:00In two years time the whole FBC has been turned up...In two years time the whole FBC has been turned up side down. It may all shake out but at this moment it is the biggest mess that I have ever seen.<BR/><BR/>1. The youth are no longer strong-<BR/>The middle school hardly shows up. The high school come to rock out. "Oh Dear Lord".<BR/><BR/>2. Where there once was a really high standard at the church its as if "anything goes" now. "Just whatever". <BR/><BR/>3. Once, the choir leader "taught" the congregation the songs on Wed. night and then the choir (who already knew it from learning it in the choir loft) would sing along for a beautiful back up. Now, half way through the song, the music man stops the congregation and questions, "Do you not know this song, I'm singing by myself!" And then... there is a lesson. "Oh, dear Lord what has happened to our strong wonderful fellowship?"<BR/><BR/>4.. On Wed. night, the young people would practice and practice and practice in the loft, having practiced weeks and weeks with their own Middle school orchestra...Something to be proud of.. Now.. the loft is bare and dark on Wed. "Oh, dear Lord. What?"<BR/><BR/>Now.. All that said, I like the pastor. I enjoy his preaching. I just want my high standard, well ordered church back. That's it. I miss the order, the organization. The Love for Jesus. The true fellowship brought about from a desire that "Jacksonville Might Know Christ". Now the mission statement is so long, we have to have the paper to read it and then we can't understand it. What's wrong with "That Jacksonville might know Christ?"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-21826658012393438312008-05-17T22:06:00.000-04:002008-05-17T22:06:00.000-04:00Speaking of Vines... He may have not lived in a $3...Speaking of Vines... He may have not lived in a $300,000. home but you bet cha ... his hand was out a good bit. Only God knows the truth behind all that he too received. <BR/><BR/>Ultimately, this is all in God's hands for there is nothing we can do about these mega churches and the money they fork out to their top leadership while the lower leadership lives on less than teacher salaries. Its true...<BR/><BR/>God will right all wrong one day so do not fret.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-40775640903217508662008-05-17T22:02:00.000-04:002008-05-17T22:02:00.000-04:00OF MAJOR IMPORTANCE TO THE FIRST BAPTIST CHURCH OF...OF MAJOR IMPORTANCE TO THE FIRST BAPTIST CHURCH OF JACKSONVILLE IS:<BR/>1. The dismissal of the Wed. night choir. When the choir was dismissed, it not only released the choir but the members who came with the choir(example... if there were 300 in the choir... potential loss in the congregation was 900 because that may be the choir member, the wife or husband and a kid)... That then affects the finances...<BR/><BR/>Now there is just the beginning of trouble when faithful members don't come....and releasing them from their spiritual gift is never a good idea. Who decided that one???Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-3381481606800114222008-05-17T21:59:00.000-04:002008-05-17T21:59:00.000-04:00OKAY ALREADY... WE'VE ESTABLISHED THE FACT THAT BR...OKAY ALREADY... WE'VE ESTABLISHED THE FACT THAT BRUNSON TOOK A $300.000 PIECE OF PROPERTY FROM A MEMBER... NOW MOVE ON TO SOME MORE IMPORTANT ISSUES LIKE:<BR/><BR/>1. The empty choir loft...<BR/>2. The Wed. night "dark" loft( no one up there on Wed.)<BR/>3. The loss of attendance due to the lack of choir participation.<BR/>4. The lack of consistency of people coming and going because they don't have consistent meetings any more.<BR/>5. The total fruit basket turn over in our Sun. night and Wed. night meetings.<BR/>6. The new "Theology Driven" information that is so far over the people's head that they will never in the world find Jesus as they can't even read the information sheet.<BR/>7. The NO Women's ministry division.<BR/>8. The NO rewards for kids division think kids will come "for the love of Jesus". (That's how to get them there to find him folks!)<BR/>9. The push to have Sunday School teachers return and teach at night too without even consulting them... Just pushing them to do something they never committed to and without consultation.<BR/>10.The lack of the use of hymnals...<BR/>11. The "rock" bands going on during Wed. night services in the Ruth Lindsay. "Is God really pleased with that at our fellowship?"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-76557540861737362162008-05-17T21:45:00.000-04:002008-05-17T21:45:00.000-04:00First of all... The Collins' are fine people. The...First of all... The Collins' are fine people. There was nothing wrong with anyone giving away their own property. The concern applied when it was accepted and that was a judgement call. It was probably poor judgement to accept such a large gift. Money does attach itself to those who give it. But, don't blame the Collins for being giving. That $300,000 to them was probably like $100. to "the average folk" and hey, its only money. Who cares!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-77199825297885972712008-05-10T23:10:00.000-04:002008-05-10T23:10:00.000-04:00Went ahead and deleted the Anon GW post slandering...Went ahead and deleted the Anon GW post slandering Jerry Vines and his wife and daughter. Couldn't stand to see it up there.<BR/><BR/>Better luck next time Anon GW.FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-27786660096507568032008-05-10T22:57:00.000-04:002008-05-10T22:57:00.000-04:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-9588279820436479532008-05-10T22:52:00.000-04:002008-05-10T22:52:00.000-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-58183435801208606852008-05-10T22:45:00.000-04:002008-05-10T22:45:00.000-04:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-31198615876673100102008-05-10T10:21:00.000-04:002008-05-10T10:21:00.000-04:00Frank - thanks, but that was already noted by the ...Frank - thanks, but that was already noted by the Watchdog above. Yes, Jerry Vines lived in a gated community. Already knew that and its stated above.<BR/><BR/>But sorry, that's where the similarities end between Vines and Brunson in terms of home.<BR/><BR/>Vines home was about 1/4 of the value and 1/2 the size. AND Vines had 6 members in his household while Brunson is an empty nester. AND Vines was not given a $300k land deal when he arrived. AND Vines didn't build a $100k office suite when he came to town.FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-10227914457069063712008-05-10T09:45:00.000-04:002008-05-10T09:45:00.000-04:00Just for the record. Dr. Vines lived in The Woods ...Just for the record. Dr. Vines lived in The Woods - a GATED COMMUNITY with entrances either on Hodges Blvd. or Atlantic Blvd. I live 4 houses from he lived. IT IS A GATED COMMUNITY!<BR/>Frank WilliamsonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-68356608106381197822008-05-08T11:26:00.000-04:002008-05-08T11:26:00.000-04:00Watchdog,Your graciousness to those who have been ...Watchdog,<BR/><BR/>Your graciousness to those who have been arrogant and self-promoting is admirable. <BR/><BR/>But I pray that your kindness this time will not be perceived as weakness, as some will try to take advantage to further their own selfish agenda, and all the while promoting it as God's agenda. We've seen plenty enough of that, huh?ochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00910693449008506409noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-58973708866913342152008-05-08T10:42:00.000-04:002008-05-08T10:42:00.000-04:00Hi Jon - I have no knowledge that you applied for ...Hi Jon - I have no knowledge that you applied for the headmaster job. You did mention your interest in the job however in one of our threads, mentioning your experience, that's why I asked.FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-75717255794020091432008-05-08T10:39:00.000-04:002008-05-08T10:39:00.000-04:00Watchdog,Glad to see you admit your error of your...Watchdog,<BR/><BR/>Glad to see you admit your error of your words.<BR/><BR/>Would you like to make an official correction?<BR/><BR/>I did not know I had applied for the headmaster job. Though I could do it and do it well as I served as the headmaster of a start up school in Oko, Kwara State, Nigeria.Jon L. Esteshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13197096460227507823noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-92106650479110117712008-05-07T23:07:00.000-04:002008-05-07T23:07:00.000-04:00WD - did you know that the church spent nearly $10...WD - did you know that the church spent nearly $100,000 renovating the Children's Building conference room for Dr. Brunson office suite? Did you know the space is 3600 square feet? Amazing!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-56731614735707977942008-05-07T22:07:00.000-04:002008-05-07T22:07:00.000-04:00Oops that was a slip....I meant to type that I had...Oops that was a slip....I meant to type that I had heard that Beverly Holland was J.D Collins sister.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-49944861496270471092008-05-07T21:32:00.000-04:002008-05-07T21:32:00.000-04:00"The Brunson-Collins-Holland Link" Someone told me..."The Brunson-Collins-Holland Link" Someone told me years ago that Beverly Holland was J.D. Holland's sister. I am not sure if this is true....I never thought too much about it because I don't really know either of them, except their faces. Does any one out there know if this is true (or they could be relatives, cousins or something.I think I heard this (possible fact 15-20 years ago. Again I am not sure this is true. does anyone out there know of<BR/>a realtive connection....making the "link" stronger.? Just wondering how that could explain the leak in the early days. Again, I could be dead wrong on the realtive connection but it would be nice to have someone verify.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-73132989857980156042008-05-07T20:49:00.000-04:002008-05-07T20:49:00.000-04:00I was confused by tonight's message. Mac said we ...I was confused by tonight's message. Mac said we need to be out visiting. But I thought he told us that didn't work anymore? Oh well, I can't follow a guy who can't sound a clear signal to follow.<BR/><BR/>And also about the church not being any different than the world. He told us we need to live in such a way that people see that we are different. How, specifically, do we do that without appearing legalistic? Again, mixed messages from Mac. More poor leadership. Just my opinion. :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-55909811358948378632008-05-07T19:44:00.000-04:002008-05-07T19:44:00.000-04:00Watchdog:I located on Celebrators.com website that...Watchdog:<BR/><BR/>I located on Celebrators.com website that Dr Brunson will be in Pigeon Forge Tn on Oct 20-23 for four service-conference with seniors. Will FBC seniors get a discount?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-18274870225846547622008-05-07T19:38:00.000-04:002008-05-07T19:38:00.000-04:00Ironic that you put this post up. I recently cont...Ironic that you put this post up. I recently contacted Collins Builders to see if I could visit some homes on a Sunday. The salesman told me they are closed Sundays. He asked me if there were any of the other days I could come by. He did not tell me why they were closed on Sundays. Since I lived out of town, I told him I would just drive through the community on Sunday when I was in Jacksonville and if I saw something I would call him back. He told me if that was the only day I could stop by, to call and they would have somebody there to meet me. I clarified "on Sunday?" and he said yes. So, I commend them if they are closing on Sunday to honor God, but they need to tell their salesmen to let people know why AND they need to make sure they stick to their convictions by NOT setting Sunday appointments if someone says that is the day they want to come.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-6333663965865905072008-05-07T18:41:00.000-04:002008-05-07T18:41:00.000-04:00Watchdog - with over 90 comments in this thread al...Watchdog - with over 90 comments in this thread already, I am wondering where the persistent blogger is that accuses this blog of being one or two people who blog anonymously to themselves. Yeah, right. Your fingers must be tired from typing all of these posts.<BR/><BR/>Funny isn't it. You post verifiable facts, links to public documents and audio clips, and point out other obvious problems such as nepotism, appearance of the love of money by the pastor and/or his family, and yet many are more interested in who you are than being concerned about what MIGHT be happening right under their own noses. Sheep are in a unique position to be fleeced. They need a shepherd who will protect them. You will know them by their fruits.<BR/><BR/>As Homer Lindsay, Jr used to say, "I am not judging, just inspecting fruit and some of it is rotten."<BR/><BR/>There is no real defense of Team Brunson. The only thing that can be said that does make sense is: "I don't care. I love them so much that even if they are fleecing us and exploiting us, I don't care. Let God judge him." That is an understandable, albeit a dangerous, position. Watch your children, wives and wallets when you give ANY man that kind of trust. <BR/><BR/>A man that is above board and has a clean conscience will openly address concerns raised about him. One that has something to hide will insist that information be withheld. You figure out which one is Mac Brunson.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-80343981616564505002008-05-07T10:01:00.000-04:002008-05-07T10:01:00.000-04:00Anon 2:15:Thanks for the 'compliment'... but I pre...Anon 2:15:<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the 'compliment'... but I prefer to consider all my posts "great". :)<BR/><BR/>Seriously, I'm glad you were able to understand what I was getting at. I think WD summed it up pretty well in his response to your last post. Whether you think WD or others here are hypocrites or liars are not doesn't address the alleged abuses of Mac Brunson. Even if you have rock solid proof that WD is a lifelong hypocrite, backed up by documents and video tape -- that says absolutely nothing about whether the things Mac has done and is doing are proper, or underhanded, as some of them seem to be.<BR/><BR/>In other words, you can attack the bloggers all you want personally. But just because a liar says something doesn't necessarily make it a lie. Even liars tell the truth sometimes. So you cannot dismiss allegations simply because they are made by someone you consider a liar. Especially when your opinion of that person has been formed solely on the basis of communications regarding the very allegations you wish to dismiss. You have no independent basis for believing that WD is a liar -- your only experience to draw from here surrounds the allegations about Mac. So in order to prove WD a liar, and thereby dismiss the allegations about Mac as lies (to use your logic), you would have to prove the allegations about Mac are in fact lies because those are the only frame of reference you have with WD. It's a circular logic problem. You are basically saying: The allegations about Mac are lies because WD is a liar. We know WD is a liar because he has lied about Mac. We know the things he says about Mac are lies because he is a liar. Etc., etc., etc. It doesn't work.<BR/><BR/>Please note -- this is not a defense of WD. Maybe he/she is a huge lying hypocrite. I honestly don't know, and neither do you. But you cannot dismiss the issues raised by attacking the character of a person you don't know, when the only thing you know of them is what they have said on the issues raised. Logically, it just doesn't work.<BR/><BR/>So back to WD's last response to you. This type of fallacy is pretty easy to see, and when one "side" raises substantive issues, and the other "side" responds with personal attacks, it really does a disservice to the second "side's" position. You are free to do it. But it does nothing to advance the debate toward resolution.<BR/><BR/>Toward the end, you seem to let on that the real issue you have is with the selection of a blog as the forum for this debate, as it is open to the world. Steve W, in his most recent post, actually admitted that this is his "main disagreement" with WD. So I ask, is your main disagreement with the substance of the issues raised? Or with the method in which they are being raised? In other words, do you see some legitimate problems with the issues raised here -- not that you agree with everything WD posts, but that you can admit that some of this stuff does smell kinda fishy -- but you just don't like seeing out on the internet for the world to see?<BR/><BR/>(Yeah... I'm not doing well at keeping the posts shorter... haha...)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com