tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post6572301501642595995..comments2024-03-23T22:54:58.661-04:00Comments on FBC Jax Watchdogs: Tear Pages Out of The Bible and Throw It Out?FBC Jax Watchdoghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comBlogger40125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-42762275127402073572015-08-31T08:44:58.743-04:002015-08-31T08:44:58.743-04:00BJ - Thanks for your discussion and tone. Your sin...BJ - Thanks for your discussion and tone. Your sincerity comes through. I understand your line of thinking. I have heard it all my life in Baptist churches. I never believed it. To me, the donkey wasn't just used to open Balaam's eyes. God could have, and certainly has throughout history, used anything and everything other than talking animals, to open our eyes. This donkey actually used the Socratic method of teaching (asking questions of his student instead of feeding them facts), had a great memory, had reasoning skills, and was aggressive in his questioning. Let me be clear as I can. Unless you are delusional, or a religious fanatic, or have blind loyalty to every single story in some ancient text as some holy magic book, there is no way you would even consider believing a donkey talked. Step back from your dogmatic belief in a Holy Book and you will realize that talking, reasoning donkeys don't exist. Period. You have to have a bunch of mental gymnastics to convince yourself to believe such nonsense. And you were not there. And the writer was not there. So you are believing a revelation of God to some unknown parties and calling it a revelation to you and to me. It's not. Donkeys don't talk. It's false. And it's unnecessary. Just let the angel show up and speak like countless other times in the Bible. Sure, God COULD make them talk. And he COULD make elephants fly. But we all know he doesn't right? So Dumbo is fiction. Even if some holy man or holy book says it happened, I won't believe it.<br /><br />How do I know? Besides centuries of observation and in my own lifetime, I know animals don't reason and they don't talk. I also know there is no magic underwear and no golden tablets and I don't believe Joseph Smith and neither do you. Why not? They claim its inspired, but you know better, right. My intellect keeps me from being a follower of Jim Jones, or David Koresh, or a Mormon, or Jehovah Witness, or converting to Islam.<br /><br />As for those questions the scripture quotes that you included, I say Amen. I would put those questions from Job right back at you. I don't claim to know those answers, but the dogmatic religious fanatic claims he "knows that he knows." He can't know. I admit we can't know. Will you?<br /><br />And here is where we differ the most. You wrote: "I know some things in the Bible seem almost unbelievable but we must be compelled to believe it anyway. All of it." To that I say WRONG! We are not "compelled to believe it anyway." Members of a cult are compelled to believe whatever they are taught. That is cultish dangerous thinking. And it is why we are losing the next generation. The opposite is true. We are NOT compelled to believe ANY of it. (Except by professional clergy and religious fanatics) As a matter of fact, we need to see if we believe ANY of it and go from there. Otherwise, like the next generation, it becomes irrelevant to our lives. <br /><br />Again, you go to Old Testament books to support your claim, including God judging us for everything we do from Ecclesiastes. Even secret things. I can't really argue doctrine based on Job and Ecclesiastes and don't want to. Let's give our young people, and if you are a pastor, your congregations, a chance to hear the gospel, to know Jesus's love for them, and how faith in Him can change their lives for good here and now, and give them hope in heaven. Telling them they have to believe it all is counter productive. I know this will be hard to fathom for someone who has interconnected Jesus, faith, ancient texts, and <br />religion all together in an inseparable bundle: I (and many non-religious people, or "lost" people") don't believe in talking donkeys. It's that simple. I don't believe in talking donkeys.FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-82331838449641275862015-08-31T08:43:21.533-04:002015-08-31T08:43:21.533-04:00I am a Baptist Christian of some 60 plus years. I...I am a Baptist Christian of some 60 plus years. I have studied the Bible extensively and have numerous commentaries and other resources. I have become a red-letter Christian, recognizing that even those statements by Jesus were written down decades after he spoke them. No where is it recorded that Jesus said we have to believe the book of Genesis literally to be a good Christian. No where did Jesus say that the Bible is the "Word of God". In fact, he contradicted statements that are in the Old Testament.<br /><br />But he did say that if we believe in him, we will have eternal life.Arcenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-70116203796268839852015-08-31T00:20:42.505-04:002015-08-31T00:20:42.505-04:00Mr. Rich,
I'm a bit confused over your choosin...Mr. Rich,<br />I'm a bit confused over your choosing to not accept the Scriptures as they are written under the inspiration of God---all of it. You specifically mention a problem with "donkeys." Now, don't get me wrong. To me, that passage in Numbers makes me lift an eyebrow of wondering, too, and yet that whole passage relates the story of how God unusually and dramatically led that donkey to "open the eyes" of Balaam's understanding and to finally realize exactly what He wanted Balaam to say to the people in Moab. The story is God's, it has words that He uttered, directed, and inspired. I'll grant you, it IS incredible to read about a talking donkey because the only other animal I know of that had the ability to speak, as recorded in ALL of Scripture, was the serpent who spoke to Eve in the book of Genesis. The point is that this type of miracle was an extreme rarity that was never again duplicated by God. And then, when you consider that the Holy Spirit gave the instant ability of speaking foreign languages to the Apostles on Pentecost day, why should God's ability to effect language be limited to only humans--and so unbelievable with animals--when, in fact, the "whole world is in His hands?" <br />If, as you say, you trust the Lord for salvation, do you also trust that it is He who made the universe and all that it contains? Job 38-42 is a sobering reminder that we humans do not have all knowledge but, sadly, many people choose to understand the world on THEIR terms and by only what they see. God, however, then asks us as humans about our beliefs and our understanding to explain how things are: "Who is this that questions my wisdom with such ignorant words? Brace yourself like a man, because I have some questions for you, and you must answer them. Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell me, if you know so much. Who determined its dimensions and stretched out the surveying line? What supports its foundations, and who laid its cornerstone...who kept the sea inside its boundaries...have you ever commanded the morning to appear and caused the dawn to rise in the east?" (New Living Translation, Job 38:2-12). If you believe that God did all that and more, much more, then causing a donkey to speak is not so hard to put into the realm of plausibility, especially when you see it in correct context and what God accomplished. And, quite frankly, any other passage that you might have a "problem" with must be understood that this is purely your own reasoning if there is doubt or unbelief and has no effect on the truthfulness of what the Scriptures say. <br />I know some things in the Bible seem almost unbelievable but we must be compelled to believe it anyway. All of it. Besides that, believing in or not believing in a talking donkey has nothing whatsoever to do with your salvation and the job that you and all of us who trust in Jesus for salvation are called to do. Incredibly, you are NOT called to be a blogger but you are called to be a witness of the saving power over sin that Jesus provided for us. That is your calling according to Scripture and anyone else who knows Jesus as Savior has the same job. We're ALL called to be witnesses. God simply asks us to trust Him, so we dare not pick and choose what to believe in His word just because it seems far-fetched.<br />So, God gives you the freedom to believe or not believe what you want and He affords the same to everyone else. The only thing is this: just keep in mind that ultimately you and everyone else will be held accountable for those beliefs as measured up against His word:"Here is the conclusion: Fear God and obey his commands, for this is everyone's duty. God will judge us for everything we do, including every secret thing, whether good or bad." (Ecclesiastes 12:13-14)<br />BJ BJnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-40497478288613324582015-08-30T11:40:56.525-04:002015-08-30T11:40:56.525-04:00Andy,
The big word for what you are asking about ...Andy,<br /><br />The big word for what you are asking about is "Theodicy". This is the study of how and why evil exists. I read a book called "The End of Christianity" which I believe was written by a guy named Dembsky. He tackles the question you ask...if the earth is old and there was death before the fall how could sin and death have entered into the world through one man(Adam)? I don't necessarily agree or support his view and I'm not sure if I completely understand it. My only point is that there are theories, views, positions on these issues that we should probably familiarize ourselves with. Tim Keller is another I would recommend on this subject. <br /><br />I do agree with you that if the fall was not the gateway to all sin and death in the world there are significant implications to he historic Christian faith.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-32085841610149212912015-08-27T23:06:36.648-04:002015-08-27T23:06:36.648-04:00Hi, what I mean is that if the earth is "old,...Hi, what I mean is that if the earth is "old," or that if there were millions of years of death and struggle, disease, etc before man sinned; and if Jesus was the creator of that, or used evolution and what not to "create," then death would be from Jesus, not man. Thus, man isn't responsible for death and destruction, but Jesus. See what I mean? Doesn't mean you aren't going to heaven.<br /><br />AndyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-7464606659022513462015-08-27T17:38:12.760-04:002015-08-27T17:38:12.760-04:00I see a lot of straw-manning going on around here....I see a lot of straw-manning going on around here. Sure there are a lot of Christians who believe their beliefs are the only valid ones, but that's not the same thing as saying someone is going to hell. Not the same thing at all. I don't think I've seen anyone on here tell anyone they're going to hell. <br /><br />Fundamentalists say that non-fundamentalists are wrong about their interpretation of the Bible and what it means to be a Christian. Non-fundamentalists say that fundamentalists are wrong about, what? Their interpretation of the Bible and what it means to be a Christian.<br /><br />So from where I stand, both sides are as "guilty" as the other in closed-mindedness and insistence that they are right and the other is wrong. I point this out because it seems to me that some non-fundies have this self-righteous notion that they are somehow less dogmatic in their beliefs than fundies are. This notion is false.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-23104203830339729142015-08-27T17:25:07.508-04:002015-08-27T17:25:07.508-04:00And again, it's not just that the charlatans a...And again, it's not just that the charlatans and their blindly loyal devoted followers adopt this view. It is the fact that a husband or wife, son or daughter, mom or dad, have adopted it and caused pain and division and harm within their own families. Please family members, don't put your religious dogma ahead of the reality that is loving your spouse, children and family. Let the seminarians and paid professional clergy fight that battle. They get paid handsomely to do so.FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-72670973397127332272015-08-27T16:17:58.484-04:002015-08-27T16:17:58.484-04:00Gotta love folks...either you believe like me...or...Gotta love folks...either you believe like me...or you're " Going to Hell." <br /><br />Once again, is it any wonder people are running for the church door by the droves? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-7268200690559216272015-08-27T15:11:11.430-04:002015-08-27T15:11:11.430-04:00Ok, thanks for the clarification. I guess this is ...Ok, thanks for the clarification. I guess this is where I'm supposed to type "well you might as well rip out the rest of the pages .... etc" but I won't :-)<br /><br />So, I guess you believe Jesus deserved to die on the cross?<br /><br />AndyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-43059574312747628312015-08-27T14:26:23.719-04:002015-08-27T14:26:23.719-04:00Andy, Of course not. Absolutely not. Thanks for as...Andy, Of course not. Absolutely not. Thanks for asking. ;)FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-6455770602639407162015-08-27T14:16:52.975-04:002015-08-27T14:16:52.975-04:00Ok, so do you believe in a "young earth?"...Ok, so do you believe in a "young earth?"<br />AndyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-69368238941522585722015-08-27T14:06:42.688-04:002015-08-27T14:06:42.688-04:00I'm the guy you asked to identify himself.
It...I'm the guy you asked to identify himself.<br /><br />It seems to me we are talking about two distinct things. One is whether you believe all of the Bible reports FACTUAL truth. The other is whether you believe all of the Bible reports DIVINE truth. I don't have much problem with someone who doesn't believe the former; I don't believe it myself. The OT never says "everything written here actually happened" and much of it clearly belongs to that ancient style of literature known as mythology. But just because it is mythological doesn't mean it doesn't impart divine truth. For example, in my estimation it really doesn't matter much whether Jonah is fiction or nonfiction. The moral of the story is the same either way. Now, that is not to say I think it's just fine if you think ALL of the Bible is mythology. Some of it, particularly the Gospels, was clearly written as factual relation, and I believe they accurately relate the facts on all important points.<br /><br />But then, we have those who reject all or parts of the Bible as DIVINE truth. This seems to me to be when one says, in essence, "this passage here is not from God, it shouldn't be in any book which purports to be the Word of God. God as I understand him would never teach this." I find rejection of any part of the Bible as DIVINE truth quite problematic. If we've come to the point that people calling themselves Christians can approach the Bible a la carte and pick and choose what they believe is inspired and what isn't, then we're going into new and dangerous territory.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-57648868436867724722015-08-27T13:59:05.831-04:002015-08-27T13:59:05.831-04:00Andy, no it's not. Because so far no one has i...Andy, no it's not. Because so far no one has insisted that I believe in a young earth or I can't be a Christian. FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-420450297532289202015-08-27T13:43:44.289-04:002015-08-27T13:43:44.289-04:00Is this an old earth vs. young earth discussion? T...Is this an old earth vs. young earth discussion? That is usually the arena where some of the arguments listed appear. Just asking so I understand.<br />AndyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-71616043929286572212015-08-27T12:46:15.289-04:002015-08-27T12:46:15.289-04:00Dawg, you can't win an argument with such moro...Dawg, you can't win an argument with such morons. You can only let them comment so their moronic statements can speak for themselves. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-61243367793318261732015-08-27T12:14:18.921-04:002015-08-27T12:14:18.921-04:00I would? Oh my!I would? Oh my!FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-5979533988785061492015-08-27T11:45:51.207-04:002015-08-27T11:45:51.207-04:00Redneck Bubba says...
If Jesus is God, then he ha...Redneck Bubba says...<br /><br />If Jesus is God, then he had a lot to say about homosexuality, as well as a lot of other sins. You would have to reject everything in the law as God given, as well as rejecting New testament passages of Paul as being un-inspired.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-81041678280680913072015-08-27T11:12:06.505-04:002015-08-27T11:12:06.505-04:00Complementarian interpretation ... Autocorrection ...Complementarian interpretation ... Autocorrection is messing me up. Also am getting old and typing on tiny phones ... This is not progress :(Rameshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09728392311602332613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-36843956549744864732015-08-27T10:49:47.970-04:002015-08-27T10:49:47.970-04:00And Amen!And Amen!FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-66317202320419977922015-08-27T10:25:21.408-04:002015-08-27T10:25:21.408-04:00Amen.Amen.Rameshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09728392311602332613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-15608305384242837232015-08-27T10:19:59.368-04:002015-08-27T10:19:59.368-04:00Me again. So this is why they post anonymously. Th...Me again. So this is why they post anonymously. They don't want others to know they are even reading your rubbish. It is sinful. And their arguments will be weak and simply dismissive. You making these arguments on the Internet in their eyes is as bad or worse than you coming out as a homosexual. In the eyes of fundamentalists what you are doing is terribly sinful and harmful. I say it is wonderful and refreshing. Many people know what you're saying is true but they exist within a religious system that would get them exiled if they uttered such "nonsense"<br /><br />Ask them SBC pastors pre CR. Theyll tell you. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-27080555163694275822015-08-27T10:14:13.392-04:002015-08-27T10:14:13.392-04:00Tom, I want to point out how intellectually dishon...Tom, I want to point out how intellectually dishonest your critics here can be. Of course many who read your views on the bible will be offended and disagree. But most won't post a response or even give a thought to your arguments. Why? Because fundies have set up the perfect system: if you disagree with the concept of the infallible bible they can summarily dismiss you as a heretic, a "non believer" and don't have to go through the work of considering your arguments. In fact, it's worse: if a true believer reads your arguments and considers them, they are opening themselves up to the work of Satan. You are "attacking scripture" and are doing the work of the devil and are going to hell so why subject one's brain to your points. <br /><br />So easy. So dangerous. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-6176592857311832582015-08-27T10:09:39.571-04:002015-08-27T10:09:39.571-04:00I don't understand the concept to believe all ...I don't understand the concept to believe all in the bible when it is so poorly interpreted and understood. Just take Revelation. Wade had done Wed eve series on it that explains it completely different from what is preached and talked about in lot of churches. BTW Wade is very convincing in his explanations.<br /><br />What about the mistreatment of all the women in complementation interpretation of the bible.<br /><br />I am shaking my head at this concept.Rameshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09728392311602332613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-3518050208849432652015-08-27T09:51:21.206-04:002015-08-27T09:51:21.206-04:00Can you be a little more specific? I assume you d...Can you be a little more specific? I assume you disagree and this is your way of articulating your disagreement. The post is not an educational or historic piece on the canonization of scripture. I'll leave that to the seminarians, preacher boys, and professional clergy. The point is fundies shouldn't be so dogmatic about believing it all or none. That stance only hurts the gospel, hurts the great commission, and hurts many families.FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-15637400840277692092015-08-27T08:47:47.656-04:002015-08-27T08:47:47.656-04:00This may be the most historically illiterate summa...This may be the most historically illiterate summary of the canonization of scripture I've ever read in my life, and I've read some bad ones. I'm no fundie, but wow. Just wow! <br /><br />This site has finally and officially jumped the shark.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com