tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post6774994301014342570..comments2024-03-23T22:54:58.661-04:00Comments on FBC Jax Watchdogs: The "Remaking" of the FBC Jax "Brand"...FBC Jax Watchdoghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comBlogger43125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-39666986791890804752008-06-03T16:24:00.000-04:002008-06-03T16:24:00.000-04:00Wow, how desperately sad this is. My family and I...Wow, how desperately sad this is. My family and I were members of FBC and our children began their lives within the walls of FBC. We left only to follow a call God had on our lives. In the little over 12 years since we left, we have been back and were welcomed back with open arms by loving friends in the couples, children’s', choir, and orchestra. We have served in dozens and dozens of churches in our tri-state area for various supply needs, interim, view-of-calls, as well as churches we have joined to support. We have worked very hard to not compare churches we have been in to FBC, because those are completely unfair and biased judgments. However, in all of these years, we have never experienced the love, support, and encouragement we did at FBC, nor have we experienced the same focus of reaching our neighborhoods for Christ than we did as part of our SS classes. <BR/><BR/>I/we loved Dr. Lindsey, Dr. Vines, Rodney, Edson, Ms. Freeman, Nancy...all those who were in the leadership roles at the time....BUT it was not those roles that made FBC what it was (I say only in past tense b/c we have been gone so long)...it was our peers, our SS classes, our SS teachers, our care group leaders, each of us individually that made the FBC experience what it was. Each church in which we have served, we have sought to bring the fellowship and focus of loving of Christ to others as we had learned there. Yes, Dr. Lindsey was the 'final say' - but I dare say if he had 'gone off the deep end about anything' - regardless of the years he had been there, there were enough people that would have addressed it - yes, even to Dr. Lindsey. <BR/><BR/>I say all of that to say, that the church is so much more than the pastor. They are somewhat of a checks/balances team that emanates what is going on within "the home". We were not merely "Sunday morning attendees" - we were deeply involved and just about the only day we were not @ the church for something was on Saturdays, and often we were with friends from SS as well. <BR/>I know we have been gone for a long time, and I know things change - but unless the love of Christ has grown dim in those still there - the underlying foundation is the same. I have sadly read these forum posts today. <BR/>Yes, we are given minds of our own and God has given us the freedom to make our own choices - but how sad and pathetic I find these bickering and childish arguments. What a disgrace we are to the presentation of our Lord with these qualms. <BR/>After I received my BA in Christian Education, I found I could not "serve" in churches because I was a woman. Having been taught and learned from observing "the best" - Dr. Lindsey, Guinell Freeman - and having the excitement and exuberance of Nancy Brant and Rodney Brooks - I found myself limited in my ability to fulfill the desire God had placed in my heart. BECAUSE I WAS JUDGED AS BEING DIFFERENT THAN WHAT WAS TRADITIONALLY ACCEPTABLE. <BR/><BR/>FBC members are not mindless sheep who are blindly led. They are intelligent, educated individuals who work together to exemplify and proclaim Christ's love to an increasingly empty city. When Dr. Lindsey Sr. came to FB – what did he do? He cleaned house and re-formed his foundation – yes, the church was in a different state than it was when Dr. Lindsey Jr. passed and Dr. Vines retired – but, the principle is similar. New leadership. New ways of doing things. I do not know the new pastor nor have I heard him speak, but I believe in the fellowship of First Baptist Church of Jacksonville and I believe God has in no way let it fall into a place to bring dishonor to him. <BR/>How dare so much energy be expended on judgments and self-righteous proclamations!! Christ is a Lord of order, grace, and compassion. The modern day church(as a whole) is a blatant eyesore to the cause of Christ. Yes, God has specific, clear rules for us to obey - as we do with our own children - for their protection. However, (healthy) parents generally do not put down and attack the child's each move when it is astray. Love and healthy "tough love" are shown to help bring the child back. The father of the Prodigal Son waited with love for his son - he did not go out and chastise him repeatedly and degrade and judge him - he loved him and accepted him for who he was - despite what he had done. <BR/>How sad to Christ that the modern day church shows itself to merely judge "those dreadful sinners" and attack individuals - inside and outside the church. How ashamed will each of us be when we fall at His feet and explain why we each spent so much time tearing each other - other believers - apart - and often, even more violently tear non-believers apart. This is not the way our Lord reached out to others - except the Pharisees who spent all of their time doing just that. <BR/>Why are not the great outspoken orators who are posting here using that energy to build and edify the true Church – the Body of Christ? I found this blog by accident – and am sorely saddened by the vehement attacks on others. One of the other blogs had a reason to not continue such vile postings – this is not edifying each other, the Body of Christ, and oh my – how a non-believer would respond to such words. Leaders and leaders and leaders and members can agree to disagree – and draw the line when needed – the endless pointless attacks, gossip, and whining within these pages is truly saddening.<BR/>JAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-69680661903818445782008-06-02T20:19:00.000-04:002008-06-02T20:19:00.000-04:00So just because someone stands up for the Collins'...So just because someone stands up for the Collins' means they are "linked" to them?? More assumptions. Just lovely.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-17103130286590850592008-05-30T12:07:00.000-04:002008-05-30T12:07:00.000-04:00Appreciate your kind words Anon, but read my lates...Appreciate your kind words Anon, but read my latest post and you might have a problem with ME. I believe you might be a late comer to this blog and have missed my original intent for this blog.<BR/><BR/>I don't fear this "purpose driven" movement...I believe a church can change its worship style, even offer various worship style alternatives, all the while staying true to its core teachings and beliefs in the Bible. If by "purpose driven" you mean changing the message and the standards, I'm against it. As I've stated from the very beginning of this blog: I didn't start this blog because I was against changes that Mac Brunson was bringing to FBC Jax. I knew change was coming and I was ready to get on board. But when we saw Mac do the things he did to "abuse" our church through accepting large gifts, angry preaching, talking us down to outsiders, nepotism, ram-rodded by law changes, showing favoritism to influential deacons in hosting a non-Christian event at our church incosistent with our mission...that's when I said enough is enough, someone needs to stand up to this sort of behavior and call the man out. He didn't answer anonymous emails, and as people have reported here even those that had their names on them didn't get answers and some were blacklisted.<BR/><BR/>So that is it. This is why I would say I have LOTS in common with Brett and Robert and other anti-watchdoggers. Its just that we differ when it comes to calling what Mac has done his first two years as abuses.FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-1823492394293446812008-05-30T11:33:00.000-04:002008-05-30T11:33:00.000-04:00Thank you for the blog Watchdog. Your fight for r...Thank you for the blog Watchdog. Your fight for right and for, as someone has said, a WAKEUP CALL. Your blog has been a good start. Because of the blog many in the church, and in other parts of the country, now have enough information to fight against the infiltration of the Purpose Driven movement into their churches. Some here in Jacksonville and Dallas have already seen this movement for what it is and have taken action to correct some of the problems. We here in Jacksonville are just beginning our fight from within. Not to hurt our churches but to protect our churches. You see, I have grown to believe that THE LORD IS NOT IN THIS MOVEMENT. Think about it, when in our time have so many of the brethren been at such odds with one another? Why should a new pastor come into our church and change it from top to bottom? If he didn't like what we were before he came, why did he come except for the money? If he wanted a Rick Warren,Bill Hybels, Robert Schuller, Reformed Church of America, Ecumenical Church let him start his own church. But don't bring that HERETICAL stuff into our church and think that we will roll over and play dead. We in FBCJAX ARE GROUNDED IN DOCTRINE AND WE WILL NOT COMPROMISE. Ecumenism may work in some reformed churches but not in this Spirit Led body of believers in Jesus Christ. Brothers the fight goes on.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-88460592215557155812008-05-30T11:03:00.000-04:002008-05-30T11:03:00.000-04:00Lack of discernment and 'willful' ignorance descri...Lack of discernment and 'willful' ignorance describes the people that are still at Trinity and it describes some of the 'Brunson can do anything he wants' followers on here. The similarities are astounding. Something I never thought I would see at First Baptist. Everyone knows Bob Gray was a dictator and current (in a more sly way) leadership is still following suit. It's sad that some of the sheep think it is 'spiritual' not only to follow a shepherd to the edge of the cliff but actually go over the cliff because they believe God has called them to follow a man regardless of the road he is taking them down.<BR/><BR/>Have you not heard? Do you not understand the scriptures? Discernment is a gift and one that will be taken away if you don't exercise it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-17148770426080203662008-05-30T09:20:00.000-04:002008-05-30T09:20:00.000-04:00Voice of Reason-aka: Gerry Gerber,You mentioned fe...Voice of Reason-aka: Gerry Gerber,<BR/><BR/>You mentioned fellowshiping in your last post. Would you like to have lunch sometime? I have had lunch with other bloggers and would love the opportunity to share some good christian fellowship over a harty meal. Are you in still in Jacksonville?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-85649731376249365902008-05-30T08:36:00.000-04:002008-05-30T08:36:00.000-04:00Wathdog my last blog with the PD site was written ...Wathdog my last blog with the PD site was written before a read all of the preceeding posts. I found your post on the closing of this blog. It was inevidable. You and others have laid out the problems with the PURPOSE DRIVEN movement. If that information has not scared them into action then they have what they have. You have done your part in making them aware of these dangerous problems. Thank you for your keen discernment and your endevor to WALKE UP the Mac Brunson SUPPORTERS. Yours in the Lord EagleAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-23006713208059671262008-05-30T08:05:00.000-04:002008-05-30T08:05:00.000-04:00The supporters of Brunson are in error. Their err...The supporters of Brunson are in error. Their error is based on their ignorance of the facts. We love the supporters for their faithfulness to their Lord but they have not done their homework. Here is some information that should clear the air of why Mac wants Change. Mac does not even know this himself. Nor do many other FAITHFUL preachers. They only seek gowth and stabilitly in their church and believe the PURPOSE DRIVEN system will give it to them. But at what cost. HERE IT IS MEN. www.crossroad.to/articles2/04/3-purpose.htmAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-71579205551217681442008-05-30T07:30:00.000-04:002008-05-30T07:30:00.000-04:00As a pastor, and I believe this also applies to al...As a pastor, and I believe this also applies to all Christians...<BR/><BR/>No matter how bad things may get, I know all will be well and work out for the good because I love God and this is His promise to all who love Him and are called according to His purposes.<BR/><BR/>Fighting our opposition other than on our knees can become a stumbling block to others, no matter how pure we believe our motives are.<BR/><BR/>Thank you Watchdog for closing your blog. My prayers are with you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-54619512648350839682008-05-30T01:40:00.000-04:002008-05-30T01:40:00.000-04:00About "kids dropping robes in choir":I'm a member ...About "kids dropping robes in choir":<BR/><BR/>I'm a member of the High School Choir and the reason we went back to robes is because the choir didn't like not wearing them not because of any outside influence. The director asked for our opinion on the issue and probably 80-90 percent wanted to go back to robes so we did.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-19760758690967812542008-05-29T23:15:00.000-04:002008-05-29T23:15:00.000-04:00voice of reason,So you are a member or at least vi...voice of reason,<BR/><BR/>So you are a member or at least visit regularly FBC? What do you see as the reason for this blog?<BR/><BR/>By Grace,<BR/>Brett BlankenshipAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-3581162738711286122008-05-29T22:18:00.000-04:002008-05-29T22:18:00.000-04:00Thanks Watchdog for your courage and concerns.You'...Thanks Watchdog for your courage and concerns.You've have gone far,far beyond your call of duty.May the Lord's peace be upon you my brother in Christ.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-67601937696704727292008-05-29T18:53:00.000-04:002008-05-29T18:53:00.000-04:00Oh yeah. Forget my last post. If what Mac says is ...Oh yeah. Forget my last post. If what Mac says is true about you, you don't don't open your Bible anyway. My apologies.ochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00910693449008506409noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-8737702427765773472008-05-29T18:40:00.000-04:002008-05-29T18:40:00.000-04:00Robert said:"If the day of faith is the closest th...Robert said:<BR/><BR/>"If the day of faith is the closest thing we can get to the real issue of faith in our city, don't you think we as a church have the responsibility of taking charge and leading our city with this event? What you're saying is you would rather not have atheists or agnostics in our church. I think it's great that we were able to bring them into our church! They need it! Any opportunity that we have to get lost people into church is a good thing."<BR/><BR/><BR/>Well that all sounds really sweet and totally PC. Now let's all sit around and hold hands and sing "Kumbaya". But the church is for the saved, not for the unsaved. So it is up to us to go out and give them the Gospel, and after being saved they are to be baptized and join the local church. Look at the end of the book of Matthew for instructions. Furthermore, it's dangerous to live your Christian life on what seems right to you. See Proverbs 14:12.<BR/><BR/>oc.ochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00910693449008506409noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-73981962001425124252008-05-29T18:37:00.000-04:002008-05-29T18:37:00.000-04:00Voice of Reason said:Watchdog - I just saw your po...Voice of Reason said:<BR/><BR/>Watchdog - I just saw your post regarding your plans to stop blogging or at least to stop allowing comments so I wanted to repost my comment that was posted under the previous article. I will let it serve as my final comment here also.<BR/><BR/>To Robert and Brett - I appreciate you posting your views. I learned from them and only wish others had engaged in similar dialogue about many of these issues. I agree we are all brothers in Christ and should treat others as we would like to be treated...especially when we don't agree on one or two issues.<BR/><BR/>My final post...how many more ways, and how many more times need I say it?: <BR/><BR/>Voice of Reason said: <BR/><BR/>Brett (and Robert) and kingofbleh -you make some good valid points. Despite all the rhetoric on this blog, I believe if we fellowshipped together we would agree on 99% of the topics. However, it seems we will always differ on whether our congregation specifically, and the SBC membership in general, is in position to be abused and fleeced by rock star pastors and influential lay leaders who empower them while they handle budgets in the tens of millions with no accountability or transparency to those that give the money. <BR/><BR/>Perhaps we should have demanded it of the Criswells, Rogers, Lindsays, Vines, Falwells and others, but didn't. We loved them and trusted them so much, and it appears they were trustworthy and did not abuse our trust. Now, the Jerry Suttons, Bob Reccords, Frank Harbers, Steve Gaines and Mac Brunson, to name a few, have inherited these ministries and have done things that made us wake up and ask for some accounting and transparency. These men circled the wagons and took offense instead of understanding the concerns, all while enriching their own wealth and family. <BR/><BR/>I agree, Matthew 18 would be the best approach. But in mega churches, that kick out members who ask for accountability (see Two Rivers Baptist), a blog was the only way to be heard.<BR/><BR/>Perhaps the blog has run its course now. I don't know. But if it has, new measures must be taken to persuade these leaders to be more responsive to those that give the millions. Just my thoughts. <BR/><BR/>Gerry Gerber - aka "Voice of Reason"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-39187888489832434432008-05-29T17:39:00.000-04:002008-05-29T17:39:00.000-04:00FBC Dallas Readers: just curious. Mac Brunson prea...FBC Dallas Readers: just curious. Mac Brunson preached at the SBC convention in 2005 (pastors conference I believe). In his sermon he shared that 2004 was the absolute hardest year in all of his ministry, that if he was given a "crack" to go somewhere else he would have left Dallas. Jokingly said he thought about trying crack it was so hard.<BR/><BR/>What was so hard about his 2004 year at Dallas to cause him to say that?FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-26390951660561563112008-05-29T17:36:00.000-04:002008-05-29T17:36:00.000-04:00Watchdog,The end of this blog comes as a suprise t...Watchdog,<BR/><BR/>The end of this blog comes as a suprise to me and I'm sure to others. I was always under the impression that as long as Pastor Brunson was pastoring the people of First Baptist Jax, you would always blog about him and the church. <BR/><BR/>For a long time, I have been an avid contributor to your blog. I always enjoyed exchanging ideas and opinions in the manner in which we did so. But my goodbye is different from the others because I was always on the other side of the fence when it came to issues raised here on the blog. Nonetheless, I think I speak for all Brunson supporters who commented on your blog when I say that even though we all had our disagreements, you're still a brother in Christ and you hold a special place in each of our lives. We all hold the same title in the name of Christ regardless of our differences about church leadership. I wish you the best Watchdog and I'm sure I will email you from time to time.<BR/>Keep in touch and God Bless,<BR/><BR/>Your Friendly Gullible Sheep and Brother In Christ,<BR/><BR/><BR/>Robert Lemuel PeeplesAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-63694995351675782562008-05-29T16:46:00.000-04:002008-05-29T16:46:00.000-04:00Watchdog, sorry I failed to address my THANK YOU d...Watchdog, sorry I failed to address my THANK YOU directly to you. I now do so.eAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-14524503060257317862008-05-29T16:33:00.000-04:002008-05-29T16:33:00.000-04:00This departure, is indeed, sad news. I want to be ...This departure, is indeed, sad news. I want to be one of the first to "THANK YOU" for your fairness and accuracy in reporting the problems at FBC Jax. <BR/><BR/>You have faithfully given of your time, effort, and energy to the benefit of us who have no voice. <BR/><BR/>The conclusion is, unless some of the leaders do something to rescue this church, it will fade into the mundane. I think we have seen the "Glory Years", pass during the Lindsay era 1940-2000. The numbers certaily reflect it, not to mention the sad discontent of the members. <BR/><BR/>THANK YOU, again, for your fairness to all who blogged here,and your equally fair assessment of our church and leaders.<BR/><BR/>God bless you, my unknown friend.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-1462243416227282222008-05-29T16:25:00.000-04:002008-05-29T16:25:00.000-04:00Anon 3:26,I'm feeling you . . . new age internet, ...Anon 3:26,<BR/><BR/><BR/>I'm feeling you . . . new age internet, to new age religion! I think you are onto something.<BR/><BR/>You got so excited to share your little detective work you got it wrong and made it appear as if Brunson was lifting himself up.<BR/><BR/>The name of the group is "Mac Daddy Brunson, IS the man" It was started by young people in our church who appreciate Brunson. thats how they talk . . . lol . . . I am going to miss you guys!<BR/><BR/>By Grace,<BR/>Brett Blankenship<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>By Grace,<BR/>Brett BlankenshipAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-53913082008171429122008-05-29T15:26:00.000-04:002008-05-29T15:26:00.000-04:00I saw on TV about facebook.com. Pretty interesting...I saw on TV about facebook.com. Pretty interesting.I put in Brunson. You will find Mac Daddy Brunson, I'm the MAN! Debbie and Trey.<BR/>It shows all their friends and profile. Pictures from Greece.<BR/>Comments on this blog are coming from TWO of their FRIENDS! <BR/>Hard to believe a high profile Pastor would be connected to a internet new age way of life. Go FIGURE!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-46643888886128212162008-05-29T15:03:00.000-04:002008-05-29T15:03:00.000-04:00As you see from the Wednesday night sermon: The Ch...As you see from the Wednesday night sermon: The Chronicles of Narnia, The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe, are recommended viewing and entertainment for us simpletons. Not recommended to us was that we study the Word in the Bible; I guess that is left for the Greek Scholars.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-80190432292715773372008-05-29T14:53:00.000-04:002008-05-29T14:53:00.000-04:00Readers: over the next few weeks I will be wrappin...Readers: over the next few weeks I will be wrapping up the FBC Jax Watchdog Blog. I have a few more posts to make, includeing a grand finale that you won't want to miss, and then I'll be hanging up the blog. I will have considered my task completed. <BR/><BR/>One of my final posts on this blog will be a message to other mega churches who down the road have to make a pastoral transition - what lessons we have learned from the Brunson transition period. If there are any former members of FBC Dallas who also learned some hard lessons during the Brunson era, I would love to hear from you privately as I put this post together. I recall from one of the previous blogs some church members at Dallas who said that they learned quite a bit about changes they had to make at their church after the Brunson's left to prevent some of the problems he left them with. You can email the watchdog in the "profile" section using the email hyperlink, or feel free to send me your thoughts as a post with a "Don't Post - Your Eyes Only" first line and I'll read it but not let it through for others to read.<BR/><BR/>So those of you who want to get your licks in on the Watchdog or do your defending of Mac Brunson, be sure to do it in the next week before I cut off comments and make my final posts.FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-23583938767524721422008-05-29T14:46:00.000-04:002008-05-29T14:46:00.000-04:00Anon 2:32,Hey thays MY word. I would like you to g...Anon 2:32,<BR/><BR/>Hey thays MY word. I would like you to get your own please.<BR/><BR/>You are right though I do focus on me. That is exactly MY point . . . focus on you and you'd be better off. At least that is what I think.<BR/><BR/>MY's - 2<BR/><BR/>Me - 1<BR/><BR/>I - 3<BR/><BR/>By Grace,<BR/>Brett BlankenshipAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-11005895564134302142008-05-29T14:42:00.000-04:002008-05-29T14:42:00.000-04:00As you see, blogger "It is written" is probably a ...As you see, blogger "It is written" is probably a serious student of the Bible and studies the ENTIRE Bible. As in his accurate answers, and explanations he uses New Testament scripture. I am not surprised, that some are not familiar with doctrines in the New Testament. We only get the Old Testament through the narrow lens of history. This is not very helpful in understanding the world today from a New Testament perspective.<BR/><BR/>We are a New Testament church and there is so much more to preached than we are getting.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com