tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post7666722067952271496..comments2024-03-23T22:54:58.661-04:00Comments on FBC Jax Watchdogs: "10%....Undesignated...No Exceptions"FBC Jax Watchdoghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comBlogger85125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-42674367938480098952010-01-18T18:56:44.571-05:002010-01-18T18:56:44.571-05:00"I guess the rolls of tithers are unknown!&qu..."I guess the rolls of tithers are unknown!" 2:19 pm.<br /><br />Don't you believe it. Whether one is called to a position of service within the church is not always left to God and you to decide. It is my opinion after being in church for years and watching different situations transpire that many a called servant within the church has risen or fallen according to how much goes in the "pot". You rarely see "big givers" insulted, ignored or in any way disrespected by preachers and leadership. If in doubt as to which way to treat a "difficult" situation (person), I just betcha someone takes a look at the books. Secretly of course. You can sometimes, just tell. If they are smiling at you, shaking your hand, then you passed the financial and kool-aid drinking test. If not then you may get the cold icy stare. Too bad better luck next year......If you are still called.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-27485356472516361432010-01-18T14:19:54.865-05:002010-01-18T14:19:54.865-05:00Concerning the tithe...the Bible says to put your ...Concerning the tithe...the Bible says to put your offering in silently, in other words do not let others know how much or how little you place in the offering plate. I guess the rolls of tithers are unknown!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-26679583382572306592010-01-18T14:17:31.945-05:002010-01-18T14:17:31.945-05:00"Jerry Clower continued to tithe after he bec..."Jerry Clower continued to tithe after he became famous".<br /><br />Who is Jerry Clower?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-11736215983624553702010-01-17T07:48:31.064-05:002010-01-17T07:48:31.064-05:00When we start arguing about "exactly" wh...When we start arguing about "exactly" what the tithe is, we would argue about whether the sun goes around the earth or vice versus.<br /><br />The "which body orbits the other" argument was resolved many years ago, by empirical observation.<br /><br />What are the "empirical observations" relative to the tithe?Gene Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05726662612894104518noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-59535064973820740372010-01-17T07:37:09.700-05:002010-01-17T07:37:09.700-05:00Keith--
I sense a little of "if I tithe, God...Keith--<br /><br />I sense a little of "if I tithe, God must bless me" in your good comment.<br /><br />Just wanted you to clarify on that score, please.Gene Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05726662612894104518noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-75000634657201278122010-01-17T07:06:44.187-05:002010-01-17T07:06:44.187-05:00The "Tithing" controversy is not new. Se...The "Tithing" controversy is not new. See the link to a study by John R.Rice,http://cnview.com/on_line_resources/storehouse_tithing.htm <br />He did not support the teaching of storehouse tithing. This dates back to the late 1970's. His ministry depended on offerings. He did not see anything wrong with giving him your tithe at the expense of your local church. <br />Like many on this site I lost a good job while trying to care for a wife and a family of five. During that time we struggled just like anyone else. My wife and I covet-ted together to continue to honor the Lord with our tithe. Within two years we had a new job with an income equal to the job we lost. Jerry Ward has said " We give- to get -to give". We are a conduit to keep the blessing of the Lord flowing. Jerry Clower tithed. He said he tithed when he sold fertilizer. He continued to tithe after he was made famous and added he did not believe the Lord would have blessed him to the extent that he did if he had not been faithful to tithe on a much smaller income. The Lord would not have trusted me with another dime.<br />A church is a called out, local assembly of scripturally baptized believers. We are not one big family. That would be "ecumenism". The SBC has been moving in that direction for years but that is another topic.<br />This entire discussion comes to the matter of trust. Trust the Lord with your heart but not your pocketbook? Does not make sense. I would encourage everyone to tithe off the gross for 3 months and see if the Lord is true to his word.I Kings 17:9<br />I have commanded a widow woman there to sustain thee. 10 So he arose and went to Zarephath. And when he came to the gate of the city, behold, the widow woman was there gathering of sticks: and he called to her, and said, Fetch me, I pray thee, a little water in a vessel, that I may drink. 11 And as she was going to fetch it, he called to her, and said, Bring me, I pray thee, a morsel of bread in thine hand. 12 And she said, As the LORD thy God liveth, I have not a cake, but an handful of meal in a barrel, and a little oil in a cruse: and, behold, I am gathering two sticks, that I may go in and dress it for me and my son, that we may eat it, and die. 13 And Elijah said unto her, Fear not; go and do as thou hast said: but make me thereof a little cake first, and bring it unto me, and after make for thee and for thy son. 14 For thus saith the LORD God of Israel, The barrel of meal shall not waste, neither shall the cruse of oil fail, until the day that the LORD sendeth rain upon the earth. 15 And she went and did according to the saying of Elijah: and she, and he, and her house, did eat many days. 16 And the barrel of meal wasted not, neither did the cruse of oil fail, according to the word of the LORD, which he spake by Elijah. <br />I am well aware this text is in the OT. However the last time I looked the OT is still bible.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09784468706066381626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-23501718533347032412010-01-13T12:46:22.711-05:002010-01-13T12:46:22.711-05:00Best advice I ever got from Dr. John Carlton, my P...Best advice I ever got from Dr. John Carlton, my Professor of preaching at SEBTS and personal friend:<br /><br />Preach about God---and preach about 20 minutes---and most folks will be very happy with you!Gene Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05726662612894104518noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-76377128204413869412010-01-13T11:49:26.130-05:002010-01-13T11:49:26.130-05:00And also "Keith I woudld question the accurac...And also "Keith I woudld question the accuracy of the percentages you used in your 1/11 11:53 comment. Get the "boys" to show you the books again!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-12411904104194766352010-01-13T11:45:00.039-05:002010-01-13T11:45:00.039-05:00Keith 1/11 11:53: I don't know which "K...Keith 1/11 11:53: I don't know which "Keith" you are, but if you are the one I am thinking of, you as well as other misinformed tithing zealots, are wrong. As a matter of fact "Keith" if you are the "Keith" I am thinking of, you are wrong about a lot of "church policies"!!!<br /><br />Just another comment please!!! Those of you who are so arrogant as to say, "If you don't like what your "Church" teaches then find another church to attend. (1) The "church" doesn't teach/preach anything!!! The "church" is the body of born again believers from every where. False doctrines that creep into a specific group of believers that we refer to as our local church, (whereever that may be)is the work of INDIVIDUALS. You or any one else have NO RIGHT to tell anyone to leave and go to another church!!! Many of us were in our respective churches (where we worshipped) for many years. We have much time, service and yes MONEY invested in our "churches". If the leadership preaches error.....then get rid of the leadership, not the people who have built the church. The preacher is not God, he is supposed to preach ABOUT God. GOT IT!!!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-68684870114102875442010-01-12T11:00:59.943-05:002010-01-12T11:00:59.943-05:00hroidLet me tell you as a small businessman, I hav...hroidLet me tell you as a small businessman, I have been making 30%of what I did 3 years ago consistently for the last 3 years.<br /><br />Every small businessman I talk with is in the same boat: 10-40% of what was 3 years ago. That is Eastern NC from Raleigh to the coast!<br /><br />Even in booming Raleigh there is a significant decline, made worse by these small business competing for the little that is avilable and cutting prices by 30%+/- just to have some work.<br /><br />This is reality--churches are living in such a fantasy land these days it is not funny. Imagine a multi-million sanctuary which is used mostly on Sunday morning and empty the rest of the week while smaller rooms serve any meeting purposes.<br /><br />I went into the Sanctuary of FBC Orlando. It is nothing more than a big theater with no windows / controlled lighting & sound / expensive heating or cooling. It is all artificial and designed to provide a theater experience to those attending.<br /><br />Church was bad enough when expensive stain glass windows kept us from seeing the needs of the world outside. NO WINDOWS is even worse.<br /><br />What would Jesus do with such a magnificent facility???<br /><br />I think he ran away from the Temple at Jerusalem in the same way he would avoid it today---nothing more than an expensive idol to man's technological abilities where the money could help the poor and needy who are with us always.<br /><br />Did he have a resounding PA system booming beside the hill of Gallilee? They didn't even need to hear his voice because the look on his face said it all!Gene Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05726662612894104518noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-21012805491275232272010-01-12T10:03:59.811-05:002010-01-12T10:03:59.811-05:00Dog:
Your testimony about having 3 kids in Christ...Dog:<br /><br />Your testimony about having 3 kids in Christian schools and only being able to give 3% is a wonderful testimony.<br /><br />I know many people who live in tough circumstances, and face huge obstacles to being able to give 10%.<br /><br />Your mentioning that publicly gives people the freedom to feel that they are not the only ones.<br /><br />That needs to happen more often, in my opinion.<br /><br />It's a lot more productive (and Scriptural) than brow beating.<br /><br />LouisAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-35082179281301428002010-01-12T07:51:21.879-05:002010-01-12T07:51:21.879-05:00WD,
Our testimonies are very similar. I'm sure...WD,<br />Our testimonies are very similar. I'm sure my family rarely made the 10% mark in the 30+ years at FBC. We gave a committed amount and tried to keep that promise but failed to do that many times. Like your family, the Mom in our house stayed home to raise her own kids. That was a huge priority for us. Also like you, I gave upwards of 30% or more of my time in service to my church. Much of the 'at home' time between taking care of the children was spent on ministry jobs. It was a huge commitment and always something. But I gave with a very cheerful heart. I loved that job/ministry. I think it was Homer that taught that we were to give of our time, money and personality. That those things were given to us by God and we were to give back to Him. Giving of your personality went way outside of the church and into the community where the lost people are.<br /> <br />I can't imagine that God would want my family to go without enough food or electricity in my house because I stood firm in giving 10% financially to my church. That makes no common sense and I think God has lots of that. The testimonies that bear those kinds of stories are scary to me. It shouldn't be something they or their church are proud of, it should make them shudder. And why have those testimonies about money anyway? That too gives me the creeps. God is so much more than that to me. He is not looking to me to prove something to get his approval or love. Where is the unconditional part if I've got to do something to make Him smile at me? I don't believe that for a minute. Like you said before, MY God is not the God they are talking about.<br /><br />I've heard many times that 'if you aren't giving 10% then you are 100% disobedient.'<br />My God is not that God.Former FBC Insiderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14110678455091719881noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-32806971640405252552010-01-12T05:58:42.558-05:002010-01-12T05:58:42.558-05:00"So this is where this hard core, non-biblica..."So this is where this hard core, non-biblical "10% or you are not right with God" nonsense leads us. It is telling a person who sacrifically gives in accordance with the New Testament that they are not right with God. It is shameful and embarrassing that these men, self-appointed priests who presume to speak on God's behalf, hang extra-biblical rules in order to raise revenue. Shameful."<br /><br />January 12, 2010 12:18 AM<br /><br /><br />And a hearty "AMEN" Dr.Dog my sentiments exactly!!!Bro./Pastor Rod H.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-24999634254008225472010-01-12T00:18:13.980-05:002010-01-12T00:18:13.980-05:00Keith - 10% may very well be unreasonable for some...Keith - 10% may very well be unreasonable for someone, because it might be too high. <br /><br />But 10% might be unreasonable for someone because its too low.<br /><br />The NT doesn't describe a percentage, but it does say we should be generous, regular, sacrficial givers.<br /><br />As a younger man with 3 kids in Christian school, a wife who gave up her career to be a stay at home mom, and myself not earning a large salary and trying to recover from a financial disaster, living in a modest home and driving old cars, I was sacrificially giving to my church in giving about 3%, Not to mention that both my wife and I cheerfully gave significant amounts of our time in service through FBCJ. We gave sacrificially of our finances and our time, and we did it out of love for Jesus and we did it cheerfully - just as Homer Lindsay preached. <br /><br />But according to what is being taught lately, I would not be "anywhere close to where God wants me to be", which is total rubbish. My paltry, disobedient 3% would be considered an unworthy gift. For me, I WAS giving sacrificially, and I was doing what the Lord led me to do in regards to my wife's employment and our kids' school and my financial giving and service to my church. I know for 100% fact that I was honoring the Lord with my giving at 3%. I KNOW IT. It was sacrificial and regular. If I took my kids out of private school and had my wife continue to work so I could give 10% or more, I would have been disobedient.<br /><br />So this is where this hard core, non-biblical "10% or you are not right with God" nonsense leads us. It is telling a person who sacrifically gives in accordance with the New Testament that they are not right with God. It is shameful and embarrassing that these men, self-appointed priests who presume to speak on God's behalf, hang extra-biblical rules in order to raise revenue. Shameful.FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-57979213911082740232010-01-11T23:53:06.618-05:002010-01-11T23:53:06.618-05:00It is odd to me that when we are saved we trust ou...It is odd to me that when we are saved we trust our hearts to Jesus. Then after scriptural baptism which is our first act of obedience,the second should be honoring the Lord with our tithe. The odd part is that we trust our hearts to Jesus but not our pocketbooks. We all know what we have belongs to God. To give 10% is not unreasonable. I can not afford not to tithe.<br />Under Pastor Lindsay, there were 60% of the members tithing. This was extraordinary for a Baptist church. Most churches are blessed if 20% of the members tithe.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09784468706066381626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-92035690489885759382010-01-11T22:49:03.331-05:002010-01-11T22:49:03.331-05:00Dog:
He does, but in the context of the sermon te...Dog:<br /><br />He does, but in the context of the sermon text. And most of the money passages I can think of in the NT have to do with dedication generally, and money specifically. I don't any of the passages get into any of the specifics of how much to give, to which organizations etc.<br /><br />Anon:<br /><br />Sorry about that. Hope the pastor moves on or changes his tune.<br /><br />LouisAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-76733125556962224932010-01-11T20:25:55.798-05:002010-01-11T20:25:55.798-05:00Today I was looking through my sermon files for sp...Today I was looking through my sermon files for special seasons and, once again, reviewed my Stewardship Sermons.<br /><br />Never did I have to command the congregation for exactly what to give--and that they would be bound for Hell, should they not do what I said.<br /><br />Instead, it was a pleasure to share what joy I had personally gained from giving as God led me. I asked our deacons to write a little "tithing testimony" to be included in the newsletter. At other times we shared what ministry was done on their behalf because they gave.<br /><br />If anything had to be said about the degree of giving, it was in terms of how Christ gave Himself completely for us, now what was he leading us to give from our bounty?<br /><br />There have been times when a guilt-ridden member came to me to confess why he was unable to do as much as he wanted--usually in hard times. My response was to assure them God understood that when the widow gave her mite, it was much more important than the rich man putting on a good show. God sees our hearts and guides to a lifestyle of joy and peace.<br /><br />It is, often, more important to give of self than of money. A person who has little money to give is often giving more of time and self than the one giving money, but little else. I would rather see "self-giving" than "money-giving."<br /><br />Giving or self / giving or time / giving of ministry is all a part of the equation of treating God just as he has treated us. Does anyone really think a God who allows these hard financial times into our lives expects the Preacher and the Facilities of the church on the corner to become more important than caring for one's family?<br /><br />In good times give much. In lean times, do the best you can as your conscience leads.<br /><br />Thus endeth the sermon!Gene Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05726662612894104518noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-10596771543364460672010-01-11T19:56:43.984-05:002010-01-11T19:56:43.984-05:00Grace and Truth to You > The Veil of Moses Hide...<a href="http://kerussocharis.blogspot.com/2009/12/veil-of-moses-hides-fading-glory.html" rel="nofollow">Grace and Truth to You > The Veil of Moses Hides a Fading Glory</a>.<br /><br /><i>So it is with religious laws, traditions and rituals. They may have been instituted for benevolent, good reasons. But that which initially comforts God's people winds up hiding the fact that God's glory is gone. The only way to be sensitive to the presence of God is to resist the temptation to build a mechanism (tradition, ritual or law) intended to hide the fact that God is not present. In other words, we Christian leaders ought to do everything in our power to facilitate freedom and liberty among God's people. When people are free--truly free (i.e. the veil or the law is removed)--it's easy to see the evidence of the Spirit's power and presence</i>.<br /><br />Amen.Rameshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09728392311602332613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-28416138981802486132010-01-11T19:51:32.260-05:002010-01-11T19:51:32.260-05:00If our pastor preached such a sermon, it would pro...If our pastor preached such a sermon, it would probably have a reverse effect - less giving because people would lose some enthusiasm for the church or leave altogether.<br /><br />Louis<br />__________________________________<br /><br />Louis, I agree. I attend a relatively small church and have heard preaching like this for the past 4 months, every single week. I felt convicted to stop giving entirely to that church. Sad but true.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-77714767836535554972010-01-11T17:12:42.335-05:002010-01-11T17:12:42.335-05:00The only posts where a passing mention of "ti...The only posts where a passing mention of "tithing" was made by Pastor Wade Burleson were these:<br /><br /><a href="http://kerussocharis.blogspot.com/2009/12/veil-of-moses-hides-fading-glory.html" rel="nofollow">Grace and Truth to You [Pastor Wade Burleson] > The Veil of Moses Hides a Fading Glory [DECEMBER 21, 2009]</a>.<br /><br /><a href="http://kerussocharis.blogspot.com/2009/06/new-covenant-christian-living-at-its.html" rel="nofollow">Grace and Truth to You [Pastor Wade Burleson] > The New Covenant: Christian Living at It's Finest [JUNE 29, 2009]</a>.<br /><br />There were some comments made by Wade Burleson on his blog comments section in reply to fbc jax commentators about tithing.Rameshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09728392311602332613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-30339727796222980252010-01-11T17:12:07.354-05:002010-01-11T17:12:07.354-05:00I'm with you there, Louis. Its the message, an...I'm with you there, Louis. Its the message, and its the delivery and tone and body language of the message. <br /><br />But if you've never heard a sermon on that topic, I assume he addresses financial stewardship at some point during the year. What does your pastor say about a Christian's stewardship?FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-30724578375928529062010-01-11T17:09:20.494-05:002010-01-11T17:09:20.494-05:00Jeff - could you also explain why you believe that...Jeff - could you also explain why you believe that Christians should give 10% instead of the 23.3% required of Isreal in the OT?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-32551953375097965172010-01-11T16:58:09.666-05:002010-01-11T16:58:09.666-05:00Isn't preaching to your own church about "...Isn't preaching to your own church about "tithing" like trying to lecture your wife and children about how they should love you?<br /><br />If you have to make that speech, isn't there a problem in the relationship that goes deeper than what percentage, gross or net, to your church versus other ministries etc.<br /><br />I have been at my current church for 17 years (we just turned 17 this week). Thankfully, I have never heard a sermon on this topic.<br /><br />If our pastor preached such a sermon, it would probably have a reverse effect - less giving because people would lose some enthusiasm for the church or leave altogether.<br /><br />LouisAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-48037361334880262092010-01-11T16:40:48.966-05:002010-01-11T16:40:48.966-05:00Hi Jeff - thanks for the clarification, that had m...Hi Jeff - thanks for the clarification, that had me confused. Welcome to the FBCJ watchdog blog. You are welcome to chime in here with your views on tithing as we look at this issue in depth. We have looked at John MacArthur, and of course we have listened to recent comments made about tithing, and the Christian's obligation to give 10% by Gaines and Brunson. <br /><br />I think that your blog post "Tithing Under Attack" is taking aim at the wrong folks, however.<br /><br />If your "personal principle" of tithing is under attack, it is under attack by the hard core storehouse tithers who are abusively preaching to their congregations that the Bible teaches there is some sort of magical 10% dividing line between obedience and disobedience, and that there are no exceptions, that all Christians are deemed obedient or disobedient in their finances on whether they meet the 10% threshold. And they preach that their 10% MUST come to their church, no exceptions. You don't believe that, from what I can tell on your blog, so perhaps you have more in common with me than you do with Brunson and Gaines in the matter of tithing.<br /><br />Also, I am unaware that Wade Burleson has made statements against storehouse tithing, as you stated in your blog post. Can you refer my readers to where Wade Burleson has made comments about tithing that you disagree with?FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-31331833352691282312010-01-11T16:27:24.367-05:002010-01-11T16:27:24.367-05:00If we want to be truely scriptual try this paraphr...If we want to be truely scriptual try this paraphrase of Matthew 23:<br /><br />The Pattersonites and Presslerites control the SBC so practice and observe whatever they tell you, but not what they do; for they preach, but do not practice. They make many rules and narrow theologies, hard to bear, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not live personal lives under them. <br /><br />They do all their deeds to be seen by men; for they make their designer ties bright and their expensive tailored suits sharp, and they love the place of honor at all Pastor’s Conferences. They love being recognized and called “Dr.” by their subservient masses. But you are all the same as Baptists: you have one master, Jesus, and one Father who is God in heaven. Neither be called President or Vice-President, for you have one master, the Christ... But woe to you, dictators to Baptists, hypocrites! because you shut the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither enter yourselves, nor allow those who follow you to go in. <br /><br />You go on glorious and expensive overseas mission trips to make a single proselyte and then corrupt him. You make all kinds of Resolutions and use Robert’s Rules of Order in any way to get your way. You don’t care what promises you make or public statements as long as you sound politically correct. Your sermons are slick and designed to please men. You neglect the Gospels and the ideas of God’s love and forgiveness, replacing them with legalisms and judgmentalism to make sinful men feel worse. <br /><br />You blind guides, straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel! Woe to you dictator pastors! You are like dishes and cups cleaned only on the outside while the inside is full of rotting food and disease. First cleanse the inside and the outside will clean itself. You take statements out of context from Baptist forefathers and act as if they applaud your mindless theology. You say you would love what the forefathers died for, but you take away the freedoms for which they would give their life. They went to jail and endured punishment so we could live in a land of freedom of religion and conscience. You would have been in the mobs which booed them and threw them in prison. You would have shot them rather than listen to their cries for freedom of individual churches and believers. <br /><br />Many Baptists are saying we have deserted our heritage of freedom in recent years, but you call them “skunks” and “liberals” to anyone who doesn’t know what being free and Baptist means. The hottest fires of Hell wait for those who do not live in love and allow their brothers in the faith to be free. Anyone who claims to serve a God of love, but cannot love his brother who is different or uses different words, is a liar and a hypocrite destined for God’s harshest judgment.Gene Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05726662612894104518noreply@blogger.com