tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post7854072963391815920..comments2024-03-23T22:54:58.661-04:00Comments on FBC Jax Watchdogs: Tim Guthrie: A Pastor Defending Caner by Attacking Other ChristiansFBC Jax Watchdoghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comBlogger79125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-46231440818778821552012-01-05T22:02:07.651-05:002012-01-05T22:02:07.651-05:00Actually no one will call you any names because yo...Actually no one will call you any names because you just posted on an article that is over a year old that no one is reading anymore. The Caner is issue is one that has been covered for over a year by multiple bloggers and even news media so you're arriving late.<br /><br />You mentioned Liberty - they got rid of Caner over his lies told in pulpits for a decade.FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-39902036051609583262012-01-05T21:37:38.604-05:002012-01-05T21:37:38.604-05:00I find it amazing that Christians will attack othe...I find it amazing that Christians will attack other Christians so vehemently over something that does matter. If Caner was preaching blasphemy then I could understand it and would be with you. He preaches anything but blasphemy, he taught classes through Liberty University on how to convert non-believers of multiple faiths including Islam and shows where they are the weakest and why they are wrong. <br />So you all are saying that because he has changed his time-line he needs to be cast away like garbage. I wonder if he had not been raised by a Muslim father if you would still feel this way? I would be willing to say no and that it would not be an issue. So this is actually an attack based on hatred and not on his time-line. I'm sure that I will be called names too because I am not extreme like most everyone else on here but that is OK. I learned a long time ago that when name calling starts it is because your points cannot be defeated on their merits and all those with childish intellects have let is that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-34728406597704682172010-10-02T03:36:30.393-04:002010-10-02T03:36:30.393-04:00Interesting post. I appreciate your candid though...Interesting post. I appreciate your candid thoughts.<br /><br />I once attended Arlington Baptist Church. You guys are right on target about the behavior you have witnessed online; it is no different for the people there. Talking with Tim is like talking to a wall. He is the authority, and he is unteachable. If you insinuate that he is not right or dare to disagree, he writes you off and parades as a martyr, shaming you the whole time. And again, you nailed it, the venom flows freely, in the name of God's justice, of course. Tim's priorities are Tim being right and Tim gaining power in the SBC. That is what drives him, and he will stop at nothing to protect his pride. That was obvious to me very quickly. <br /><br />I loved the people there, but couldn't trust what I was hearing was from God. I felt I had no choice but to uproot in order to protect my family from spiritual abuse. It took a long time before I could trust ANY pastor again. I still can't believe how easily that kind of megalomaniac behavior in a pastor can go unchecked in a church. People WANT to support their pastor, and faithful people do not want to appear as gossips or seem to be interfering with advancing the cause of Christ (which is exactly what Tim would accuse them of if they spoke up). All of this has forced me to reexamine my own beliefs about church and the roles a church/other believers would play in my life and my faith. It was a painful process that God graciously brought me through. I suppose I should be thankful that encountering Tim has matured me in my faith, although certainly not in ways he would like to take credit for.<br /><br />I google that church from time to time to see if the truth has come to light. It will be a relief when it has. Please pray for Arlington and that people's hearts will be protected until something is done.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-8620757532258380022010-05-29T17:00:36.596-04:002010-05-29T17:00:36.596-04:00Everybody can't be the Seminary President and ...Everybody can't be the Seminary President and it might as well be someone with a great story and great speaking skills like Ergun. Your jealousy is thicker than the Oil in the Gulf!<br /><br />May 27, 2010 10:09 PM<br /><br />1And I, when I came to you, brothers, did not come proclaiming to you the testimony of God with lofty speech or wisdom. 2For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. 3And I was with you in weakness and in fear and much trembling, 4and my speech and my message were not in plausible words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, 5that your faith might not rest in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.<br /><br />A true believer would never be jealous of Caner but very concerned for his soul and those, like you, he is leading astray thinking that 'stretching the truth' over such a long period is no big deal for those who attempt to preach the Word.Lydiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17367390474045060624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-50034056334667410232010-05-28T13:45:53.849-04:002010-05-28T13:45:53.849-04:00Does anyone have a link for the 2002 Associated Pr...Does anyone have a link for the 2002 Associated Press article where Caner said he came to the States in 1969? There's a reference to it here:<br /><br />http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_REL_PREACHERS_PAST_TNOL-?SITE=TNDYE&SECTION=STATE&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT<br /><br />but the version cached in Google (and linked to from AOMIN) here:<br /><br />http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=ovEyAAAAIBAJ&sjid=ywgGAAAAIBAJ&pg=6872,1106589&dq=ergun-caner&hl=en<br /><br />Doesn't mention 1969. Is there a second 2002 AP article? Have I overlooked something obvious?Mike DeLonghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07663633633400443037noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-59046130076676969522010-05-28T10:44:58.714-04:002010-05-28T10:44:58.714-04:00Slow to Speak - the real babies crying in all of t...Slow to Speak - the real babies crying in all of this are Mac Brunson and A.C. Soud. Waaa - you are criticizing me on your blog. Waaaa - I will show you not to ever criticize me Waaaaaa. I will pass a resolution and shut you down - waaaaaa. I don't like blogs or bloggers that ask tough questions -waaaaaa. You are a coward if you blog anonymously - waaaa. Coward that you are...waaaa.<br /><br />At least Caner and Liberty aren't responding like arrogant bullies who are just making their actions so much worse by the way they are handling those who dared to ask questions.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-43870334380463134752010-05-27T22:09:32.083-04:002010-05-27T22:09:32.083-04:00In a court of law, Ergun would NEVER be tried and ...In a court of law, Ergun would NEVER be tried and convicted of ANYTHING! This is the court of public opinion and it is a SHAME that so-called Christian want to string Ergun up and hang him out to dry. Waaaa He stretched the truth....Waaaa...He created a new middle name....Waaaa...me little feelings got hurt because he became a Seminary President and I am just a Sunday School teacher...GROW UP! Everybody can't be the Seminary President and it might as well be someone with a great story and great speaking skills like Ergun. Your jealousy is thicker than the Oil in the Gulf!Slow to speakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04112253493029220293noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-56444461212902779592010-05-27T20:44:47.149-04:002010-05-27T20:44:47.149-04:00Cousin Tom, honestly I don't know how you keep...Cousin Tom, honestly I don't know how you keep putting up with this stuff. You're a good man, Tom. I'm real thankful there are a few like you that will stand up and keep going after these loopy nut-jobs that run the peculiar and strange Southern Baptist Empire. This guy Guthrie really is a Pharisee, and your dissection of his comments so clearly shows just that. So, well done, and let me encourage you to keep standing up for truth. Eventually, guys like this will either kill themselves out of guilt, or they will really change and begin to admit the lies and hypocrisy they SPEW are damaging their inner spirit. One way or another, Guthrie, you'll come clean.Johnny D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17141127764617679586noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-12663902345054105672010-05-26T18:26:55.730-04:002010-05-26T18:26:55.730-04:00Definitely a goner from the presidency of LBTS.......Definitely a goner from the presidency of LBTS....and the best he can do is publicly repent and stay on as a seminary professor.<br /><br />But if I'm wrong, I'll treat you all to a Steak n Shake $3.99 meal here in Jacksonville.<br /><br />May 26, 2010 12:20 AM<br /><br />You are dreaming...<br /><br />At the WORST they will find him another position in another seminary or parachurch org somewhere making same amount or more. That is what they (like minded folks in leadership) have done with Patterson for the last 20 years. That decision might even come later on after they find him not guilty. It is funny how these things work...you gotta follow close. They never want it to look like public opinion made their decision for them but at the same time, they cannot afford not to act.<br /><br />And it depends on how the students and families paying the bucks to Liberty respond to this.<br /><br />They would never make a decision based upon pure integrity. But on image.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-15722575930365999832010-05-26T14:32:38.791-04:002010-05-26T14:32:38.791-04:00Hey, if FBC Jax just couldn't ignore and leave...Hey, if FBC Jax just couldn't ignore and leave alone ONE man blogging about them, how do you expect LU to move on from numerous bloggers and media? They can't. Maybe they could call A.C. Soud, Jr. in Jacksonville and he could tell them how to issue resolutions and sign letters. Maybe LU wants to follow FBC Jax's godly counsel and wisdom on changing by-laws, calling people names, (Have Jonathan Falwell call questioners sociopath in the newspaper?) and then have LU call in favors from the local sheriff and state attorney's office. Then maybe they could be defending themselves in two lawsuits too.<br /><br />Lots of smart guys at FBC Jax can give them the blueprint. :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-22019488987048971372010-05-26T12:40:25.089-04:002010-05-26T12:40:25.089-04:00"Who got in trouble? The minister who messed ..."Who got in trouble? The minister who messed up? NO! The minister who spoke out was roundly reprimanded for saying what needed to be said. The saddest part is he will never do again."<br /><br />Because of pressure of the monied <br />powers-that-be.<br /><br />"He never said, "If you don't like it, leave" either but his silence was just clear as if he had said it."<br /><br />Oh, but he did say it. I was there the Sunday morning he said: "If you don't like the music then maybe you need to find another church." And I did.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-28339355491685595172010-05-26T09:40:50.959-04:002010-05-26T09:40:50.959-04:00Dr.Dog said::::"But if I'm wrong, I'l...Dr.Dog said::::"But if I'm wrong, I'll treat you all to a Steak n Shake $3.99 meal here in Jacksonville.<br /><br />May 26, 2010 12:20 AM<br /><br /><br />Dr.Dog I can taste that $3:99 meal already!!Bro./Pastor Rod H.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-18682773296647219952010-05-26T08:55:31.749-04:002010-05-26T08:55:31.749-04:00WishIhadknown said...
He never said, "If...WishIhadknown said... <br /> <br /><br />He never said, "If you don't like it, leave" either but his silence was just clear as if he had said it.<br />Love ya<br />Wish <br /><br />May 25, 2010 9:19 AM <br /><br />I was there the Sunday morning he said: "If you don't like the music maybe you should find yourself another church." And so I did.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-87673128267203705082010-05-26T00:20:22.630-04:002010-05-26T00:20:22.630-04:00Sorry, I still stick by my prediction:
Definitely...Sorry, I still stick by my prediction:<br /><br />Definitely a goner from the presidency of LBTS....and the best he can do is publicly repent and stay on as a seminary professor.<br /><br />But if I'm wrong, I'll treat you all to a Steak n Shake $3.99 meal here in Jacksonville.FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-77620780947715815042010-05-25T23:32:03.320-04:002010-05-25T23:32:03.320-04:00LU has a significant problem with producing a &quo...LU has a significant problem with producing a "whitewash." There is so much of the information that is public/printed/taped. This means that we all have access to most of the same information that they do--and we can interpret it and draw conclusions as well as anyone. <br /><br />I can't see that they can deny the data, but they can say that it does not matter.<br /><br />This would be a hard choice to live with. Some have commented that the "media" do not care about this. But when I started reading about Dr. Caner a Google search of "Ergun Caner News" produced about half a page of results. Now the total runs to many pages with most of the increase happening after the CT article. Every "neutral" article comes down hard on Dr. Caner and those that are based on reading some of the data really come down hard. The negative press would be intense if LU does nothing significant in response to this.<br /><br />I expect that they will have to come up with some response to the majority of "Dr. White's 22 Questions" though that will be very painful--on many levels.<br /><br />Their problem is clear, their possible responses are not. It will be interesting.Bennett Willishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01200940136846753450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-10359464417358540322010-05-25T23:16:49.835-04:002010-05-25T23:16:49.835-04:00The script is being written.....
"It was a m...<i>The script is being written.....</i><br /><br />"It was a mistake of the mind, not the heart. Amen. Let's move on."<br /><br />I predict Caner will not only remain where he is, they'll give him a raise. And in a few years LU will name a building after him.New BBC Open Forumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18300115421477555376noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-19314732466226388442010-05-25T23:00:14.598-04:002010-05-25T23:00:14.598-04:00Who got in trouble? The minister who messed up? NO...<i>Who got in trouble? The minister who messed up? NO! The minister who spoke out was roundly reprimanded for saying what needed to be said. The saddest part is he will never do again.</i><br /><br />Yes, the silence was deafening after that. I always wondered why James Dobson wasn't crucified for saying virtually the same thing... about the same certain minister. Of course, the silence from Dobson re his former associate, George Rekers, has been deafening, too. Lesson learned?New BBC Open Forumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18300115421477555376noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-79984671007903908042010-05-25T21:55:50.830-04:002010-05-25T21:55:50.830-04:00Doug: I have to agree with you. LU is hoping that ...Doug: I have to agree with you. LU is hoping that is the way it will play out. The only counter pressure to this would be the bloggers continuing to apply pressure and if the media picks up and runs with this story, then in the worst case LU might issue a note of contrition from Ergun Caner. Otherwise it is business as usual.Rameshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09728392311602332613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-44519030875934211792010-05-25T21:49:36.511-04:002010-05-25T21:49:36.511-04:00W D
Not official, but.......
I have info source ...W D<br /><br />Not official, but.......<br /><br />I have info source knowledge....Nothing is going to happen.<br /><br />The script is being written.....<br /><br />A hand slap, and it is done....<br /><br />"Nothing New" will be their battlecry.<br /><br />But we can hope they change the mind, but holding our breaths will lead us no where.Dougnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-74255168839429923202010-05-25T21:32:37.268-04:002010-05-25T21:32:37.268-04:00Doug - I disagree. I predict he is definitely out ...Doug - I disagree. I predict he is definitely out as president of LBTS, and he might be able to stay as a professor if he publicly repents for his deceptions.<br /><br />We shall see in about a month.FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-6747244918581121432010-05-25T21:29:13.431-04:002010-05-25T21:29:13.431-04:00I know this for a fact. They are only doing this &...I know this for a fact. They are only doing this "inquiry" to make it seem they are concerned and to silence so many people who have questioned and emailed the leadership. That's it. This committee is only a formality in order to hush some of the critics.<br /><br />And BBC you are right, nothing will happen and he will be "honored" by all within the SBC as another blogger attacked minister and " rewarded" with more speaking agendas. <br /><br />They are not concerned, the least bit. As a matter of fact, he has had a silence demand issued by his representatives until they "clear him".<br /><br />It is written, it is done.Dougnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-2314555068955123172010-05-25T19:23:28.357-04:002010-05-25T19:23:28.357-04:00Peter Lumpkin, Tim Guthrie...I never heard of any ...<i>Peter Lumpkin, Tim Guthrie...I never heard of any of these people before I started reading these blogs. I never heard of Ergun Caner either till I went to FBC Jax. Its not like these people are common names and thats why all this talk of this "hitting the national media" is incorrect.</i><br /><br />Me either. However, I guarantee you a lot of people recognize the name Jerry Falwell. But even now when I hear people say that Caner is done I say I'll believe it when I see it. They've already circled the wagons, and now that the mainstream media is breathing down their necks, LU decided they'd better at least give the appearance of doing an investigation. Of course LU will pronounce him clean. The only reason they won't keep him is if he becomes a financial liability. (Follow the money.) And life in the SBC/good-ol'-boy network will go on as usual.New BBC Open Forumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18300115421477555376noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-61509024623067072352010-05-25T18:22:03.016-04:002010-05-25T18:22:03.016-04:00Maybe Tim G will now say he too was "misquote...Maybe Tim G will now say he too was "misquoted".....U No Menoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-82648914743087572902010-05-25T16:59:12.716-04:002010-05-25T16:59:12.716-04:00Tim Guthrie may by all other measures be a Godly a...Tim Guthrie may by all other measures be a Godly and honorable person but he will never deviate from the party line; that’s the way the good ol’ boys club works. You are rewarded for strictly following along; stick your neck out and it get’s chopped off.<br /><br />I know someone who did not follow the “don’t speak out against other ministers rule” over an important issue and a ministerial leadership failure. He said the things that needed to be said.<br /><br />Who got in trouble? The minister who messed up? NO! The minister who spoke out was roundly reprimanded for saying what needed to be said. The saddest part is he will never do again. <br /><br />Guys, like Tim Guthrie, win points with the club by attacking those outside of the club who demand accountability.WishIhadknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12487727353887788291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-36917391817699305632010-05-25T13:17:12.927-04:002010-05-25T13:17:12.927-04:00Doug,
What were some of Tim's good points and ...Doug,<br />What were some of Tim's good points and issues? I seldom get past his "us/them" issues. Maybe if someone else expressed them they would seem more credible.Bennett Willishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01200940136846753450noreply@blogger.com