The Watchdog extends a warm welcome to the many pastors who will be attending the 2009 FBC Jax Pastor's Conference.If you haven't been able to stay up with events at our church since last year, the Watchdog will give some commentary here to help get you up to speed - to help give you the other side of the story of what has happened at FBC Jax under the watch of Dr. Brunson and "Team Brunson".
The Watchdog will be posting a few articles: we will introduce you to Maurilio Amorim, our church marketing consultant who is leading 3 sessions at the conference.
We will provide some questions to be asked of Dr. James Bryant and Dr. Donald M. Brunson at their session this afternoon about the Pastor's Guidebook.
We will also provide some other interesting information and commentary on the conference as it unfolds - pointing out any inconsistencies or contradictions that might be uttered by our pastor. Of course the Watchdog, as always, welcomes your comments and criticism as well.
We have had quite a cold spell recently, but there is relief on the way and you should have some warm Florida weather next week.
Welcome to Jacksonville!
27 comments:
This isn't a pastors conference. This is a pastors mutual back slapping get together. An "I"m OK you're OK, how do we keep'em fooled and keep the money coming in society!!!!
I wouldn't say that at all. There are some very good speakers, and the vast majority of the attendees are good men, humble men of God coming to be encouraged and to get some help in their ministries. Most of these pastors coming are ministering in humility - they don't beat their sheep, they don't change bylaws adding clauses removing member's legal rights without telling them. They aren't living in million dollar homes, they don't have 3000 sf office suites with their wives and dogs.
They have come, and their church has paid for them to come and hear from the Lord.
Remember, readers, over the years pastors came here to see what FBC Jax was doing so they could take that back with them and implement it.
But this is a different day. Yes, they will hear from some encouraging speakers. But they also need to know what IS TRULY going on at our church so they can AVOID doing these things at their churches.
So they do deserve the full story of what is going on at FBC Jax, and Mac ain't going to tell them about his trespass warnings, about the bylaw changes, about how he uses a church marketing firm for strategy, how he lied about Sheri Klouda - he won't address his contradictions between his lifestyle and what he writes in his Pastor's Guidebook. He won't tell you about who Maurilio is and what he does. Mac won't tell them about his arrogant explanation of his home that misled his congregation about the land gift. He won't tell them these things.
Mac won't tell them about how he needed a million to fix our facilities and was a pompous jerk in demanding 1 million in two weeks else we would go in debt.
Mac won't tell them about how he uses a P.R. firm in Atlanta to raise revenues by charging for advertising at the conference.
So we'll do the best to get the FULL story to the pastors here on this blog...not as gossipers, Jim Smyrl, but in the interest of TRUTH, so that the problems at OUR church can be avoided at THEIR churches.
I don't believe the anon was referring to the people who attend, he was referring to the speakers. Unfortunately, I saw enough of this at Pastors Conference after Pastors Conference and finally decided to quit going that week altogether. There is only so much "the Southern Baptist Convention is awesome and all of us speaking are too, now here's my joke about the guy who just spoke, ha ha ha isn't tat funny" I could take.
Yes God's men will be here for a few days to hear words of encouragement, words that will be uplifting, great words of wisdom from God's Word, words to take back with them that will challenge them to do great things for the Lord. But will they? They may hear some.
Then will come the brainwashing! They will be given bits and pieces of PURPOSE DRIVEN. Oh, you won't hear those words[purpose driven]. They will be kept secrete, like the movement itself. PD is never mentioned in church, IT IS JUST EMPLEMENTED IN ALL AREAS OF THE CHURCH. The members will never know what is going on. They will just hear the word CHANGE.
Then one day,ONE AWFUL DAY, they will look around and say WHAT HAPPENED? How could we have been so blind? When the pastors brought in small groups, contemporary services and music, when the praise band became a rock band, when the suits and ties were put away and we came in jeans and tee shirts, when the gospel was seldom preached and hell was never mentioned, when the bylaws were changed, and we had to sign a covenant with the church to become members { I know this hasn't happened yet], we should have known!!!! We were blindsided
These fine men of God will here about satellites, campuses, success and strength in numbers. They will get a full plate of change.
From what I have seen and heard, it is already too late. Purpose Driven is in all of the Southern Baptist Churches.
Is it to late to tell these men that it is not right to kick members out of the church if they do not agree with the pastor? Are these dissenters evil? Are they just " blessed subtraction"? Will these pastors even care?
There may be some TRADITIONAL pastors here for the Pastors Conference, but I suppose most of these men have already changed. Most of the traditional pastors have stopped coming to this Pastors Conference. But if they go along and change...
one day, ONE AWFUL DAY...
Watchdog: You just let the cat out of the bag. You claim what abuses are not known yet you describe them. That's the whole point!!! Let's say one thing and do another. You may believe it is a conference, but I don't. They certainly have changed a lot from what they once were!!! If you're advertising then you're selling, so what's the real purpose for a "conference". Most "real" preachers know the difference in a "get together" and a Christ centered conference.
When I saw Jerry Vines high fiving Mac Brunson on how much money he has to receive in order to be a preacher in a church, that did it for me....forever!! Oh, and that's on video, so it can't be denied...
Just trying to be generous to our guests - some of them I believe have not clue whatsoever what has gone on at FBC Jax in the last 3 years. They sincerely are coming believing they have something to learn from our church that they can take back to their church.
I'm not worried about "purpose driven", I'm worried about Jim Smyrl's brand, his "Theology Driven Ministry"...and there is more to learn about what we are doing that other churches should NOT do! Jim's Theology Driven Ministry that is his brand, his mantra, is nothing more than a system where a preacher sets them up to be above everyone else spiritually, and can implement abusive edicts and policies under the guise of it being "God's way" because its "theological".
I pray that no preacher comes and thinks there is anything to the "Theology Driven" nonsense. I believe they will see it for what it is.
Why would any preacher come to FBCJ for help. FBCJ needs help. I know other "speakers" (once called preachers) will be here. But they are also in the "business". Sort of like a used car salesman. Pay your money and hope the car is not a lemon.
Watchdog: You are to be commended in the abuses you have discovered and reported. HOWEVER, the things that you arn't worried about and don't care about are far more dangerous than you recognize. I know it's your blog., you have the say so as to it's content. But there is more... much more. You arn't worried about Purpose Driven. How do you think we got in this mess? Rick Warren's Program, that's how. Rick Warren is not the Holy Spirit, but many rely on his methods (Warrens). You arn't interested in Bible translations. If you don't care that every time a new "translation" comes out 20% of it has to be changed in order to meet copyright laws, and the very words of the Lord altered to meet this change, then how do you accept that. Every translation except the KJV is copyrighted, and that means money is made from changing Gods word. The KJV is not copyrighted. The reason most people don't CARE about bible translations is....They are ignorant about them, and the danger they pose to the very foundation of bible doctrine. And if you don't care about doctrine, then you most likely don't know it. So believe whatever someone tells you. But explain to God one day why you didn't bother to CARE about His Word. Hope you print this but doubt you will. I really am in your corner. If people knew, if they studied the translations and the dangers, if they really knew how Purpose Driven and yes TDM and all the rest of this garbage is hurting churches and how preachers are falling for this stuff, then maybe we could get back to the Gospel and rely on the real word of God. We need an old time revival. May I suggest a KJV preacher? STUDY....study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth". 2 Tim.2:l5. RIGHTLY DIVIDING THE WORD OF TRUTH!!!!
I am in agreement that the conference is no longer "spiritual" lead; everything is left in marketing and promotional hands, and a self-centered pastor and family.
Yes, I understand.
But my motives are not to stop Purpose Driven. They are simpler.
My motive and passion is to stop the abuse of Mac Brunson. To get him to stop abusing our church, and to get people to hold him accountable so the abuse will stop.
That is all.
When I see a preacher that has left his calling, or has become a detriment to his minisrty/church,I look for the cause. I already see the effect. I look for what he has sold out to. What has replaced his zeal for doing Gods work. Uncovering abuses is important. It is a warning to those that the ministry touches. But WHY did it happen? Was it turning from the leading of the Holy Spirit? Was it putting faith in another, or in another PROGRAM. When one takes their eyes off JESUS at any point in ones life, failure follows. That's true for all of us. Then there is always the question: Was one really called to the true minisrty of Jesus Christ in the first place. We see the effects of a tainted ministry in the form of abuses, but what was the cause? Many need to know this in order to avoid the same pitfalls. There are lessons to be learned, not just results to be seen. The WHY is always out there and is equally as important and the effect. CAUSE AND EFFECT. CAUSE AND EFFECT.
Dr.Dog...I have to agree with Anon 1:25pm 02/06/09...P.D.is far more dangerous than you realize;;And PD in the hands of a despot not called by God such as Mac becomes exceedingly dangerous!!The Apostle Paul wrote "Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times(today)some will depart from the Faith,giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons"[1Tim:4:1]and this is what makes the implementation PD so DANGEROUS. Mac is a Diotrephes plain and simple as display by his behavior and his leadership decisions such as hiring Maurillo(who appears to not know Christ from a hole in the wall)among others.Instead of building Gods Church the way the Book of Acts describes; Mac attempts to build FBC Jax with man-made philosophies such as the PD...Mac is a fraud,a wolf in sheeps clothing,a hireling who if not stopped will destroy this once great Church..I use to attend every Pastor's conference held at FBC Jax,but now I wouldn't attend if you paid for my registration....WORSE AND WORSE[2Tim.3:13]
The label "Purpose Driven" doesn't apply to Mac. Its much too broad of a definition. That's why I'm not trying to expose "purpose driven" here. In fact, if Mac came here and humbly led the church, didn't accept land gifts, didn't beat his sheep every week, didn't demand a million bucks in two weeks to avoid going into debt, didn't change the bylaws demanding that legal rights be forfeited as condition of membership, didn't slander Sheri Klouda, didn't preach history...then this blog wouldn't be here!
What I'm saying gentlemen, is this: the things Mac has done at our church are NOT exclusively "Purpose Driven" abuses. Some might be, I don't know. I honestly don't know. Some are just ABUSES, plain and simple.
If he would stop the abuses of his power, if he would apologize for his abuses and maybe explain reasons he has done some things, he could lead the church - and lead them into Purpose Driven out the wazoo...but until he stops the abuses he can't lead Purpose Driven, he can't lead Theology Driven, he can't lead much of anything.
You know...
The more I read Maurilio's blog the less I like the guy. He appears to be a very self-centered, arrogant, snotty, individual. He makes fun of large people, people that do live up to his fashion sense, people who eat food that is not from some fancy named restaurant (the guy drops more 1st class or highly rated names) of anyone.
And this is the individual who leads the marketing plan for FBCJ...frustrating!
The guy is obnoxious...I can see what Brunson sees in him.
Wish all of the pastors @ the PC well. You will be reminiscing about the good ole' days before you leave.
anon 2:28 - you ask "why did it happen?" Quite simply, the lure of the money, power, and respect given to the mega church pastors is more than most of them can bear. I don't have any doubt that Mac and Debbie Brunson started out as humble, called ministers of the gospel. God blessed them. Then, somewhere along the line, they began to look at the riches of members in their churches, the nice cars, the big houses, the respect given men like Criswell, Vines and Rogers, and they began to think I can get that too. No, I deserve those things too. Then, when the Spirit convicts them of their sin, they get defensive, use their talents to argue it away, and begin to rationalize their abuses. Then they surround themselves with adoring yes men and begin to believe their own B.S.
Then..."it is appointed unto man once to die" they die and the next guy who saw them comes along and is even more brazen and more abusive. This cycle will continue until the gullible donors stop funding it.
Why churches die? Eventually people wise up to these charlatans.
Just my opinion. :)
Watchdog you said:"he could lead the church - and lead them into purpose driven out the wazoo". What does that mean? I hope you get a handle on what these "movements" are about, and how they are ruining churches. Please broaden your focus. What would you say if you knew one of these "movements" kept people from coming to Christ as Savior. Would it make a difference to you then. I hope I have misunderstood your comment, as I agree with your assessments of abuses so far. But, abuses are really symptoms of a larger problem. Abusive pastors are narcissistic. They are a combination of what works for them. Purpose driven, TDM, self-driven. All you see are the abuses. Please look at how these abuses are originated then manifested. These self oriented preachers use anything they can to achieve what they want. Just to apologize for being abusive is not nearly acceptable from some that don't need to be in the ministry in the first place. Just to apologize!!! Give me a break. I could apologize for something (anything) all day long. I don't even need to be sincere. I can move on to another tactic. What difference will apologizing and doing things differently make, if I still manage to get what I want. Apologizing is like putting a band-aid on cancer. Watchdog, I pray that you are deeper spiritually than this. All, please study the "falling away" of the church 2 Thess: chp.2. Also the church of Laodicea in Rev.chp.3 vs.l4-22. We are at the end of the church age. A lot further down the road than many are aware.
Anon 4"47: I am anon.2:28 who asked why. I wanted people to think why. Thank you for helping me make a point. Blessings!
I would leave a comment, but I am sure that you probably will not post it. Who are you? How old are you? How long have you been going to FBC? If you were not afraid of posting you identity, why would you blot out who you are on the Trespass Warrants. Why would you not go somewhere else if you are so dissatisfied? I think that your cause would be better served if you told everyone all about you. At this point you really do not have any credibility by hiding who you are and all of the facts about you. I take it that you have a daughter, but do you have a wife? Honesty, you bring out a lot of things that you try to make folks believe an yet you do not add any credibility to your statements by telling anything about you. Why is that? In all lines of endeavors that I am familiar with folks add tremendous credibly by telling everyone your name, background,qualifications, etc.
Anon 5:22 - I'm saying that Mac will fail to lead the church in ANY direction with the abusive leadership style he has used. If he were a humble, loving pastor, not interested in promoting family in the church, etc....he could succussfully transition the church to whatever he wanted to. He could keep it conservative, or he could move it more liberal, or PD, or TDM, or whatever. He is the pastor, and as you know, people will follow him.
But the abusive leadership style is NOT something unique to PD. That is my point.
Anon 5:32 - the blog is not about the watchdog or his credibility. Its about Mac Brunson.
Anon. 5:32; I see you are Anon also. Pot calling the kettle black.
Watchdog. No one would have believed that the U.S. fifty or even twenty years ago,would elect a president who has zero experience. Once elected as a senator he began his campaign to be elected president. Any man can be be a pastor if he puts his mind to it whether he be abusive or not. In order for an abusive pastor to survive he has to have control of the church and its leadership. Once this is accomplished there is nothing that can or will make him change unless he himself decides to do so, as those around him are joined at the hip with him and his programs. Letting go of power is hard for some men as they enjoy it for varied reasons too numerous to list here. Point is, there seems to be no reason to turn back from the present mode. Keep up your task, pray, and hopefully change may occur. But, I doubt it.
WD-
I'm getting confused here, has this blog changed to an "If the king ain't on it, the King ain't in it" KJV is wonderful forum. I do believe that the KJV is far superior to most versions out there, but I do not come here to read a debate on the KJV. I come here because I am concerned about what is happening at FBCJAX.
To those who are concerned about PD at FBC. Those who have studied the movement certainly may see things that some of us don't. But it seems that PD has been characterized by shallow, feel good, tickling of the ears type preaching. And MB's style is more of a throw-back to the old, angry, yelling, belittling, often KJVO, let me tell you what's good for you and don't you dare question me type preaching.
If the "standard", (bible) is inferior the "product", (church) can also be inferior. I am constantly amazed at the "narrowness" of some minds when discussing problems in a church. But lets just deal with what's going on, it's less taxing on the brain, than examining possible spiritual causes for such problems.
I wonder what Dr. Lindsay would say about FBC now? I really admired Dr. Lindsay and his precious wife Shirley. Wow! I'm very glad to have raised my children under Dr. Lindsay's preaching.
I'm curious about something. What if pastor Julie Pennington-Russell or some other SBC female pastor desired to attend the FBC Jax Pastor's Conference. Would she be welcome? Or allowed to?
I am a pastor and I have travelled all the way down here from far up North for Pastor's Conference. This is the first PC I have been to since Dr. Vines retired. What a difference a few years make. I see the on the screens - "healthy pastors, healthy churches" and I look around at the half empty auditorium. I keep hearing people say the "economy" has prevented pastors from coming. Well it didn't prevent me. Airfare as cheap and I found a great deal on a hotel and car. It is not the economy, it is the pitiful line up of speakers (except Junior Hill, Johnny Hunt and Jerry Vines) and the junk "premium seminars". Mac says they are examples of expository preaching. I disagree. The speakers may be great expositors who can teach, but they are NOT expositors who can preach. I didn't understand anything Tommy Nelson said last night. I couldn't even understand him when he was reading his text. It is depressing! The choir has spread out to fill the choir loft, whereas before it was packed. And the music is missing something. I can't put my finger on it, but it just isn't the same. This is pitiful. This can't be a healthy church, it must be a dying church. Maybe they need to change the conference motto. This is coming from a pastor, not a "griping church member." I am so disappointed.
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