"85% of our state does not attend church"
-------------------
"Between now and July 1st, I'm asking everyone in this church to do the best you can to make the largest financial contribution to a church you've ever made in your life. For some of you that might be twenty bucks. Amen and praise God. But for some of you that could be ten million." Perry Noble appealing for large contributions on "Take the Land" video
---------------------------
It is time for South Carolinians to contact the Federal Trade Commission to report deceptive fund raising practices of NewSpring Church. I'm not talking about the ridiculous "first fruits tithing" doctrine Perry Noble uses to scare people into forking over 10% of their income else God will bring curses on family and fortune. I'm talking about NewSpring making false claims in their latest fund raising video (see below) about church attendance in South Carolina to try to create an urgency in order to raise millions of dollars to "Take the Land".
Perry Noble and NewSpring church are trying to raise millions of dollars under the false claim that only 15% of people in South Carolina attend church. As you can see in the graphic above, this is absolutely false and misleading. According to Gallup, the actual figure is 56% - making South Carolina the state with the third highest church attendance! NewSpring's claim is so blatantly false that it defies and explanation. Kudos to Chris Rosebrough of Pirate Christian Radio for being all over this story.
If only 15% of people attended church in South Carolina, that would put them well below Vermont, who Gallup says is the state with the lowest percentage of church attenders at 23%. Gosh, even people in California attend church at a 35% clip, Perry!
And the 56% statistic from Gallup is those who responded that they attend church "every week" or "almost every week" - we're talking regular church attenders here! Now it is true that Gallup lumps in those who say they attend synagogue or mosque in their "church attendance" figures. But U.S. Census numbers indicate that 93% of people in South Carolina consider themselves "Christian", and 84% are "Protestant". So this doesn't even come close to explaining the huge gap between NewSpring's 15% and Gallup's 56%.
It is not uncommon to see preachers purposely fib to their congregations. But here, Perry Noble takes it to a much higher level. Perry is looking straight into the camera and making an appeal for people to give millions of dollars, right after the video creates a false sense of urgency with the claim that only 15% of people in their state attend church. Fact is, South Carolina is absolutely chock full of churches (go to Google Maps, and search "South Carolina churches" and you will see what I mean - you will be shocked). Not ones that Perry would approve of I'm sure. After all they are probably boring and dull churches, don't have rock bands, and some of the ministers wear robes instead of skinny jeans. And I'm certain that almost none of them have opened an Easter service with AC/DC's "Highway to Hell".
Too bad the Federal Trade Commission doesn't investigate churches and clergy for their false claims in efforts to get people to fork over their money to their ministries. If any other non-profit were to raise money using the tactics of many modern evangelicals, complaints would be filed with the FTC, an investigation would be done, and charges would be filed. While we long have accepted the prosperity TV preachers will lie about giving money to their ministry causing the "windows of heaven" to open and financial blessings to flow, we don't expect evangelical churches to lie about people in their state to raise money to build more churches in a saturated market.
But this is the trend - we are in the era of church marketing. These are no longer churches ministering to people - they are huge businesses run by CEO's with egos to match, who compete fiercely for market share. How else do mega churches in Jacksonville justify building "satellite" churches when there is one on nearly every corner?
70 comments:
I've never been to one, so this might be one of those "don't diss it until you try it" things. However, I just don't get the satellite church thing.
We always hear statistics about church attendance declining, but there's always a new church on every corner. If the statistic is accurate, then are these new churches and new satellite campuses brining new people into churches, or are we just spreading people around?
Funny how these "cutting edge" preachers still haven't figured out that they can't get away with this stuff anymore.
There are people who can check his numbers and publish the truth to a world-wide audience (for free) because of the Internet.
Perry believes he can get away with the same things that preachers in the past did - blow hard from the pulpit and no one will check his facts.
Those days are gone my friend.
Maybe in his 85% he includes Catholics, or others he considers "unchurched." He should be challenged on this number. Where did he get it?
You can't out give God because preachers will always find ways to spend more and keep on asking for more and more and more and more.
I'm not sure that "sense of urgency" stuff works anymore. I'd think if people want to go to church, they are already going. Vermont's probably doing fine w/o much church attendance. I guess it depends on what you feel you're actually accomplishing when churches expand.
I grew up in North Carolina, which is probably very slightly less conservative than South Carolina. And if I was told that only 15% of North Carolinians attend church, that would sound so "off," it would get my attention. He should site his source for that figure.
Either way, it's not an emergency situation that requires you to give your money sacrificially to Perry Nobles. By the way, is he making great sacrifices to open more satellites? He could give up his salary or something to show how dire he considers the situation. Or maybe vacations or something. Lead by example! Maybe he could use the power of prayer to accomplish the same goals-no money needed!
Hey man....
What's happening is believers in Christ are leaving and unbelievers are filling these satellite churches.
Many use the free services that churches provide- babysitting, food, entertainment, counseling, and sometimes money......
So yes membership is declining from believers.
Small wonder there are churches on every corner and still more popping up every day. It's a great business model! What other business allows one to play on people's guilt to "pay" 10% of their income with no tangible product in return. Perfect for these charlatans/scam artists.
This guy is such a snake...!!
I live in SC. Within easy walking distance of my home are:
3 SBC churches (one of which shares a building with a Catholic Church)
2 Methodist churches
2 Independent Fundamenalist Churches
and a handful of smaller storefront ministries with names like Abundant Harvest Ministry.
The three SBC churches are within three blocks of my house.
SC doesn't need more churches, Perry, and it doesn't need preachers like you!
Should Christians want the Kingdom to expand? Yes.....regardless of philosophy critiques and all that you shouldn't have to use false statistics to convince people to be generous to further the work of the Kingdom.
China doesn't seem to need millions of dollars to fund its satellite church strategy. Well, I guess that is because those that lead in that context don't expect a six figure salary for "sacrificing" so much.
Anonymous July 5, 1:21. All that and no taxes paid to anyone...federal, state or local. Church is a great business. That is why so many crop-up, particularly in hard times. It's not about Almighty God; it's more often about the almighty dollar. Perry is a very good salesman: that's all. He would do well selling insurance, cars, water treatment systems...anything. He just happens to be selling a warped vision of Jesus and gullible people are buying it. Like any good businessman, he wants to expand his business to generate more income. However, to "sell" that idea to the folks who support his franchise he MUST say it is for God, or for "the Kingdom." Sales talk, that's all it is, but it is the only way everyone gets a tax break. Is this a great country or what? Been there, seen/heard it and the ethic of Jesus is not a part of Perry's notion of church and the Kingdom of God does not, in any way, resemble his little kingdom in South Carolina. It's a full-service religious themed business; let him flourish like any other business, but let the buyer beware. Just don't trust him as a pastor and don't believe his business is an expression of the "Bride of Christ."
The answer should not be should christians want the Kingdom to expand but do we want to live in a godless community. We are almost there. i.e. something is a failure.
Because the devil comes dressed in white clothes, "sheep" ,the knowledge of good and evil is not the enemy. If the people in those churches were more aware of the path of the enemy we would not be in this place to question.
I am afraid the fundamental problem is the deterioration of ethics and morality due to inequality that is metastasizing this country. No wonder all the mega-church pastors are millionaires (more like multi-millionaires).
"for some of you that might be 10 million"??? Wowsers! He knows some REALLY wealthy people.
I wonder if he is so concerned about "taking the land," that he would be willing to give up salary or perks or power or whatever it takes to get the job done-sorta like fasting is supposed to show God that you're serious.
This was one major point with me re churches. The preacher conveyed this "sense of urgency" about lost souls, giving money, etc. I, being a serious person, took it all to heart. Then right after that, the preacher goes on a cruise or something. The light started to peek through for me: Never again will a preacher jerk my emotions around like that. I started to see that it's all a game. They say whatever, then everybody goes to lunch and comes back next week to do it all over again. It's the folks who take it seriously that get screwed up. Most don't REALLY take it seriously and therefore DON'T get screwed up.
Thy Peace
Keep in mind that the term "mega" means millions, "kilo" means thousands. So a church with thousands in attendance is a kilochurch if attendance is the measure. But if money, like the pastor's total remuneration, is the measure, the mega if the proper prefix for these churches. So when you hear or read "megaChurch" keep in mind what that really means -- the pastor is getting rich on the tithes and offerings, and other sources, of money.
I was trying to do a little research on church attendance, and it seems that people lie about going to church regularly. They don't want the pollster to think they're a bad person. Also someone came up with a fake survey about what chemicals you had been exposed to-you had to reveal everywhere you'd been on a Sunday. This showed that some of those who had claimed to be at church really didn't go there.
So maybe Noble is more correct than the polling is.
If every person had a Christlike impact on just 3-4 people around them, there would be no need for a video like this ever again.
These guys teach that only the church can do what Christian people should just naturally do out of their hearts.
But the churchgoers love it because they think they're doing something without really doing anything except dropping $ in a plate. And they can go home feeling so righteous.
It is so out of whack.
Thy peace
This has nothing to do with inequality. That mantra has been played for years, especially in communism and socialism. Blame it on rich people or blame it on race inequality. No this has to do with sin- plain, downright evil sin. You can be the poorest man out there and do evil things.
What has happened is men who are false teachers and people who don't discern and have wisdom to differentiate who is a false teacher or a godly teacher. People have left God and His Word- period.
Most will ask after the service what was his point in the sermon. Someone else will say did you see what Gertrude was wearing. Another will say I had a chance to sell something today. Another will say I met a new boyfriend or girlfriend. Another will say well he's preaching on money again. Someone elae will say did you notice the new carpet. Another will say how about that cruise down the Med for $3500 should we go? See its all about man. That's why I quit going to the so-called church. Its a total waste of time, energy and money. Better to stay home and really study your Bible as you will get something out of it.
Totally Agree With: Better to stay home and really study your Bible as you will get something out of it.
July 6, 2012 9:29 AM
=============================
But we do miss out on the all important social group restaurant gatherings which is the most important activity after church. :>) A shocking change to today's modern mega churches!
9:01 and 9:29-great comments!
"It's a full-service religious themed business; let him flourish like any other business, but let the buyer beware. Just don't trust him as a pastor and don't believe his business is an expression of the "Bride of Christ."
Well-put! I think "religious-themed business" is a good description.
I think if you're a very social person, you probably love church for the chance to socialize. If you go there for the sermon mainly, it's a very different purpose. If you love the praise part, that's another difference.
I think there are so many different reasons that people go to church.
"85% of our state does not attend church"
85, or maybe 44. It's an easy mistake to make.
Mark said:
"He should be challenged on this number. Where did he get it?"
He pulled it out of his... hat.
These churches are hurting compared to the money flowing in awhile back. Take the land will become take the acre down the road real quick and the money used for salaries, etc.
Been keeping up with Mars Hill, they can't dump properties fast enough. Selling them off like hotcakes. Land they bought to have sat churches all over.
They have not learned the trick that Mohler and Ezell did. find small churches that are debt free, send in your guy to do interim and take over by a vote a while later. You now have free land and building and some people (maybe half) and a sat campus. They have done this in Louisville.Shhh...just don't mention the C word
Why do people keep following men like these? WHY?
However I am encouraged. If you look in the typical Baptist church you'll now see the over 60 crowd which is about 80 % of attendees. These are the one foot in the grave types who dare oppose the ones that are soon to bury them.
It is good to see the younger crowds do research and know how to say NO way!
Perry is not who you are making him out to be.
He has taken much of the summer off because of his personal challenges with depression.
He is real, relational, and relevent to us here in South Carolina.
If you don't like him or his ways, then keep your *** out of our church.
The Gallup poll for the period 2004-2006 listed La. Ga. and SC with 58% of their states attending church on a weekly basis. Note SC one of the top. You can believe what you want, for me I'll stick with Gallup.Gallup April 27, 2006.
Anon 9:43pm quotes "He has taken much of the summer off because of his personal challenges with depression." . . .these poor preachers who carry such a load on their shoulders - one just has to feel sorry for them. Unbelievable - just what we need a manic depressed preacher.
Anon 9:43
It does not matter a hill of beans whether he is "real, relational, and relevant". What matters is if he is the REAL deal or is he a false teacher?
It matters if he truly teaches salvation not by works (including the false teaching of tithing) but a RELATIONSHIP with Jesus Christ.
It matters if the RELEVANT teaching of Perry Noble matches up with what Scripture says, not what he has conjured up.
check this website (see below)... some scientific support for the 85% number. And whatever the actual %, we can all agree that there are too many unchurched people. Please channel your energies toward this and not church/pastor bashing! http://www.churchleaders.com/pastors/pastor-articles/139575-7-startling-facts-an-up-close-look-at-church-attendance-in-america.html
We are all about love and grace at NewSpring.
This blog is about hate and envy and I rebuke it all in the name of Jesus.
It can all be about so called "love and grace" and still miss the boat. Paul exhorts believers to be Bereans and find out the truth. The truth is tithing is a false gospel- no where in the NT does it say that the pastor has a right to demand money from the church- we are to give with a cheerful heart; out of love for our Savior. The Bible also says in 1 Timothy 6:3-10 do not follow who use the church for ungodly gain and to become rich off of it. By the way, talk about bring devisive- I have heard many times ungodly talk coming out of the mouth of Perry Noble. He has numerously bad-mouthed those who are on discernment blots.
Anonymous said...
We are all about love and grace at NewSpring.
What about truth?
I rebuke you in the name of Thor! Another mythical person who came from heaven and did good work here. Except Thor didn't threaten to burn me and my loved ones in an everlasting hell if we were not obedient to his every whim.
Thor does seem nicer somehow.
Someone described Noble as real, relational, and relevant. That reminded me that so much of all of this seems to be about the pastor himself. It's really his personality, talent, ambition that it's all centered around. I mean, really, Jesus plays quite a minor role. What if the pastor is boring, not very talented, is not "on fire for Jesus?" Well, isn't Jesus still real? Why must so much come from the pastor himself? Isn't Jesus enough?
"I rebuke it all in the name of Jesus."
Yeah, that's show's a lot of love and grace.
"we are all about love and grace at New Spring"
Yeah, Perry is full of love alright, he's full of self-love. 2 Tim 3 Men will be lovers of themselves...
http://www.christianpost.com/news/newspring-pastor-shares-his-struggle-with-depression-69972/
Perry shares his struggle with depression in the above article.
He said..."After being humbled, Noble said that "today my walk with God is closer than it's ever been. I've seen more of Jesus since I've gotten out of this than I've ever seen. He was trying to save me from me."
THIS is why Perry has won over 12,000 souls....HUMILITY.
LEAVE HIM ALONE
I just got through watching a video by Penn Jillette and came over here. Penn is a really smart atheist who really presents some really good questions on people that claim the be Christians. Ministers like Perry really really need wake up to their hypocrisy.
I think you are being slightly unreal yourself. You know statistics are never 100% reliable and are dependent upon the polling used. However, I have followed him for awhile and Perry does focus too much on money at times. I don't know his heart and I know he is very honest with his struggles. You just can't sell Jesus and they give away cash, ipads, etc to "reach teens". I don't agree with that, but I like the guy for the most part..
First of all Perry does not win souls- it is not his glory, it is the Lord Jesus that does the winning.
Secondly, I now should believe the Christian Post?
Third if he was truly humbled he would ask forgiveness from all those he has taken money from to fill his coffers and step down from the pulpit or lead a smaller church- if he was truly humbled. One should never been in the same temptation of amassing such wealth again- period. If he was truly humbled.
There was a time where you would say "Yes we believe you"- not today. Narcissism is a contageous disease among pastors and elders. These kinds know how to manipulate and get peoples sympathies. When I see pastors willing to give up their wealth in the church they have created and become like humble servants then maybe I will believe then.
Anon you come on here to try to defend Perry- why?? If he is doing the work of the Lord then you should not worry about what others think about him and nor should he have to worry. God will take of him - right? You should also give the same right to those have been hurt by greed and abuse in the church and even in Perry's church. I do not trust any of these men, because I grew up in a time where the church was a place to hear Gods Word and grow, not a marketplace of entertainment, church plants and "mass conversions" just to get more people to fill your church- hmmmm.....smells like $$$$ to me.
THIS is why Perry has won over 12,000 souls....HUMILITY.
___________________________________
A humble guy wouldn't keep count and wouldn't tell everyone how many "souls" HE has saved. Sheesh! I can't believe Thor doesn't come back and strike him dead right now.
THIS is why Perry has won over 12,000 souls....HUMILITY.
___________________________________
A humble guy wouldn't keep count and wouldn't tell everyone how many "souls" HE has saved. Sheesh! I can't believe Thor doesn't come back and strike him dead right now.
"THIS is why Perry has won over 12,000 souls....HUMILITY."
When it comes to HUMILITY, Perry is the world's BEST!!!
"LEAVE HIM ALONE"
LEAVE BRITTANY ALONE!!!
Does it every bother you TROLL that everyone knows you are a liar?
You have claimed to be a member of every church that WD blogs about.
You are a sad person.
Did Noble say if he's on anti-depressants?
Maybe during his sabbatical he will turn from his false teaching about the tithe.
9:57pm Anon . . .the problem here he's on antidepressive med's - the way I see it he is not have a good stable mentality to lead a flock - he has too many issues himself!
2 ndstus
Anonymous 9:57 pm.
Perry won over 12,000 souls! Really? Since when does a human being win souls?
Read your scripture. The HOLY SPIRIT wins souls.
"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day." John 6:44
If it is about love and grace then what was up with that James Duncan thing.
Anon, "After being humbled" Ha,ha,ha, yeah right...He's got you snowed. Christ saves not Perry. And do you know these so-called 12,000 people who converted? The answer would be, no. So you have no idea were these people stand with God.
Perry "won" over 12,000 souls. Now, that's funny, but typical. No attribution to the Holy Spirit. It's all about Perry. Don't doubt he's done something to 12,000 souls, but "Christian salvation"? I wouldn't bet my eternal soul on it. That is what you're doing...you know. To paraphrase Dwight L. Moody, "when I saved them, they didn't stay "saved." When Jesus saved them, through the work of the Holy Spirit, they were saved for eternity."
...and he that winneth souls is wise."-Proverbs 11:30
From a great sermon by Charles Spurgeon..."Soul Winning"
http://www.biblebb.com/files/spurgeon/0850.htm
This is a direct quote from the greatest preacher since the Apostle Paul and it speaks of Perry Noble and Ed Young Jr.
Mark ye well, my brethren, that he who is successful in soul-winning, will prove to have been a wise man in the judgment of those who see the end as well as the beginning. Even if I were utterly selfish, and had no care for anything but my own happiness, I would choose, if I might, under God, to be a soul-winner.
Perry and Ed are soul winners...
ARE YOU?
ARE YOU? (a soul winner)
Its not souls that are being pursued, but
"giving units"
How many have you hoodwinked?
"Soul-winning" by human beings. What a quaint heresy. Just because some famous preacher taught it, does not make it true. Heresies of all sorts have come from the mouths of preachers, that is where almost all of them originate!!! Landmarkism, including that John the Baptist started the Baptist denomination, was the invention of preachers and was spread by preachers.
The diiference Anon.....is that most of the men you have mentioned did not have multi-million dollar complexes and hoping to create more. Perry has created quite a kingdom for himself and you are being used to fund it.
NO WHERE in scripture did righteous men build church empires. The only ones who did were false teachers- via the Catholic Church as an example.
Many will come Scripture says and deceive and LOOK like men of God. The men that we should look up to are the ones who never made a dime off the church. Paul, the apostle, himself would not take a dime off the church but worked as a tentmaker. He knew that once one did it would be a stumbling block to the church and a poor witness.
So true, 56 years a Baptist...
Preachers and congregets worship these men like what they say(or said) is scriptural and that we need to abide by their word. The narcissism never ends from one preacher to another. And every generation it gets worse.
Perry Nobles biggest fan:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1u6QDbFqGeY
just like to point out the Stat shown in the article was from 2009.
I'd venture to guess all those who spew hatred towards Perry watch too much Fox News. They take one thing and blow it out of proportion. As someone who grew up in a fundamental baptist church and now attends and serves at newspring I can tell you that I don't go bc of a man, I go to hear from God and get fed from his Word in another avenue other than my personal bible time. Did Jesus not say he wants to build HIS church? If Perry is leading along with other leaders to do just that and help reach more people for Christ than why is that an issue? I realize you all just need someone to hate on since you have hated going to church your whole life but why not pick someone who deserves it? This is a joke to read your comments and its sad but I'm not surprised to see them knowing the background most of you probably come out of. Prayers for you just as much as I pray for my unsaved friends.
You bashers are sad... I'll be praying for your salva 10% isn't about taking your money (God will bless him with everything he needs). It's about putting something else first other than yourself. Most people put themselves and money first. sad man sad... perry's ministry, taught me to put Christ 1st financially, it saved my marriage, and is where my first born received Christ. I will always be indebted to that ministry.
regards,
mw from boston
10% isn't about taking your money. It's about putting something else first other than yourself. Most people put themselves and money first. sad man sad... perry's ministry, taught me to put Christ 1st financially, it saved my marriage, and is where my first born received Christ. I will always be indebted to that ministry.
regards,
mw from boston
As a SC pastor let me say Perry's stat re unchurched is correct. We do a survey of church attendance and only about 18% attend church any given Sunday. The Gallup poll is based on people's self reporting not actual attendance. The number of churches has no co-relation to percentage of unchurched people.
How about all of you shut up. If you maybe gave New spring a try then you see what it's all about. We have hundreds of salvations each week rather than you're boring churches have people falling asleep and people afraid to be who they really are. New Spring is a church who accepts everyone rather your orientation, past, tatted up, piercings, style, gender and everything else you can imagine. Perry is changing lives. And it is a fact that over 85% don't attend church on a consistent basis. So the evidence you have put in completely irrelevant. This is on an average, consistent basis. So before people start shooting the gun; learn your facts. Who cares if they play AC/DC many, MANY people enjoy classic rock and roll. And for you ignorant people who say it was on Easter that a song by AC/DC was played, you are wrong, so learn your facts. If you ignorant people would open your mind and realize life isn't about some small town church where your family has attended for years and half the people are about to roll over and start drooling because they cannot keep their listeners entertained and intrigued. Get your facts straight people and stop hating, that only proves what your church teaches you; hating on a church that many people get saved at. Maybe it's because your jealous New Spring has such a huge amount of people who go there or maybe it's because it's something new and different and you are too afraid to accept change. Either way great things are happening at New Spring and tithing greatly helps.
~A person who attends New Spring
My first question? Who in their right mind opens a service of worship to "Highway to Hell"?
Where in the New Testament does it say that Christians are to tithe?
Where in Scripture is a minister, leader, shepherd, etc.... supposed to entertain the listeners?
My wife asked me a few months ago what a cult was, I showed her comments of New Springers and I said here you go.
Read your Bible, that is all the proof you need Perry Noble is a wolf in sheeps clothing.
You people do realize that the Gallup polls are not based on actual attendance right? It is ACTUALLY based on what people CLAIM!
Seeing as how honesty cannot be proven in surveys, (especially people who might feel guilty about not going to church)I'd say YOUR statistics are questionable at best! And This article agrees: http://www.churchleaders.com/pastors/pastor-articles/139575-7-startling-facts-an-up-close-look-at-church-attendance-in-america.html
Lastly, Newspring is amazing! Though I do not live in South Carolina I am thankful that they provide their sermons online and I can watch them weekly.
Unfortunately, just like the pharisees who tried to label Jesus as Satan, so do you 'religious people' who are so quick to judge a man who is legitimately bringing people closer to God.
The comments in this article are heart breaking...
If you care more about the fact that a sermon was titled "Highway to Hell" than you do about people meeting Christ and being saved, then you have no idea what Christianity is about!
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2006/april/32.85.html
I would like FBC Watchdog to read this article. Numbers can lie because people can lie.
I would ask that the FBC Watchdog read this article. Numbers can lie because people can lie.
Post a Comment