tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post1663416291422853874..comments2024-03-23T22:54:58.661-04:00Comments on FBC Jax Watchdogs: "SBC Plodder", aka William Thornton, Diagnoses "Chronic Clergy Complaining Syndrome"FBC Jax Watchdoghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comBlogger83125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-52662132589102554022011-06-01T09:31:57.009-04:002011-06-01T09:31:57.009-04:00"Yet you, a mere man, wants me to listen to y..."Yet you, a mere man, wants me to listen to you. You are contradicting yourself."<br /><br />Jon, you are a wonder. You see contradictions where they don't exist, and yet you can't see the ones that you constantly espouse.<br /><br />Perhaps that is because you don't really care about the truth. You only care about the truth when it benefits you. When it doesn't, "you don't care about disagreements on tertiary issues."<br /><br />Once again you have aligned yourself with a view that is opposite from the scripture.<br /><br />Jon, I can't tell if you are just not very bright or you are purposely obstuse. In either case, let me make is simple for you, since you don't seem to be following plain logic.<br /><br />You're problem isn't with me. It is with scripture that often gets in the way of your self-serving purposes. <br /><br />When I suggest that you follow its teachings, the only contradiction is with your heart and the Word of God. <br /><br />Your comments are an affirmation and a warning that the Bible never intended one man to hold your current occupation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-64845711215444914172011-06-01T09:21:29.617-04:002011-06-01T09:21:29.617-04:00"Please do tell who I want to impress."
..."Please do tell who I want to impress."<br /><br />Anyone with a Christian title. They can do no wrong in your eyes. <br /><br />You know like all the ones that you are constantly making excuses for and kissing their butts on this blog.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-60972030298437789612011-05-31T16:51:15.253-04:002011-05-31T16:51:15.253-04:00"That's because you risk nothing by doing..."That's because you risk nothing by doing so. You are a sycophant."<br /><br />Please do tell who I want to impress.<br /><br />"I prefer scripture as my guide. You won't find a professional preacher where one person speaks and everyone else listens in the NT."<br /><br />Yet you, a mere man, wants me to listen to you. You are contradicting yourself.Jon L. Esteshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13197096460227507823noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-67393301676918999622011-05-31T15:39:34.068-04:002011-05-31T15:39:34.068-04:00"Check out Pipers book "Brother, we are ..."Check out Pipers book "Brother, we are not professionals" and you might begin to understand better the calling of God upon mere men."<br /><br />I prefer scripture as my guide. You won't find a professional preacher where one person speaks and everyone else listens in the NT.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-957083960254931702011-05-31T15:34:29.618-04:002011-05-31T15:34:29.618-04:00"And not afraid to put my name on my comments..."And not afraid to put my name on my comments."<br /><br />That's because you risk nothing by doing so. You are a sycophant.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-37354194547839822112011-05-31T15:05:48.289-04:002011-05-31T15:05:48.289-04:00"Jon L. Estes
Often Wrong
But Never in Doubt&..."Jon L. Estes<br />Often Wrong<br />But Never in Doubt"<br /><br />And not afraid to put my name on my comments.Jon L. Esteshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13197096460227507823noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-40221613771121705632011-05-31T15:04:37.810-04:002011-05-31T15:04:37.810-04:00"I'm not the professional Christian. That..."I'm not the professional Christian. That's you my friend."<br /><br />Check out Pipers book "Brother, we are not professionals" and you might begin to understand better the calling of God upon mere men.Jon L. Esteshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13197096460227507823noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-61726318235890460772011-05-31T14:51:36.003-04:002011-05-31T14:51:36.003-04:00Jon L. Estes
Often Wrong
But Never in DoubtJon L. Estes<br />Often Wrong<br />But Never in DoubtAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-43660345893567072512011-05-31T14:44:07.722-04:002011-05-31T14:44:07.722-04:00"Oh, it has nothing to do with you and how yo..."Oh, it has nothing to do with you and how you rightly or wrongly interpret scripture."<br /> <br />Yeah yeah sure.<br /><br />Just like you didn't change your 50 year view on tithing after a 3 day discussion with me in which you were not able to defend your position. <br /><br />There was no connection at it. It was all just a big coincidence that you changed a 50 year old view the following Monday.<br /><br />hahahahahahahaha<br /><br />Keep telling yourself that story. Perhaps you can fool yourself, but it won't work with anyone here.<br /><br />As far as interpreting scripture goes, my track record is good. I'm not the one changing my views after discussions with anonymous posters and then denying it.<br /><br />"Yet, I am glad to know you are not like other men."<br /><br />I'm not the professional Christian. That's you my friend.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-76116395685298480812011-05-31T14:00:20.105-04:002011-05-31T14:00:20.105-04:00"It's frustrating dealing with people who..."It's frustrating dealing with people who can interpret scripture for themselves, isn't it?"<br /><br />Oh, it has nothing to do with you and how you rightly or wrongly interpret scripture. Yet, I am glad to know you are not like other men.Jon L. Esteshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13197096460227507823noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-48942318946640135532011-05-31T13:56:20.728-04:002011-05-31T13:56:20.728-04:00"I deleted my comment because I believe I bec..."I deleted my comment because I believe I became more caustic than I desire."<br /><br />It's frustrating dealing with people who can interpret scripture for themselves, isn't it?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-71301701813752965742011-05-31T13:23:07.153-04:002011-05-31T13:23:07.153-04:00I deleted my comment because I believe I became mo...I deleted my comment because I believe I became more caustic than I desire.Jon L. Esteshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13197096460227507823noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-31821463621285951362011-05-31T13:12:36.910-04:002011-05-31T13:12:36.910-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Jon L. Esteshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13197096460227507823noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-84723304276529228502011-05-31T10:13:20.525-04:002011-05-31T10:13:20.525-04:00"To believe a pastor should not be paid goes ..."To believe a pastor should not be paid goes against Timothy and 2 Cor.."<br /> <br />Again you are eqivocating on the word "pastor." There is no example of a full-time paid senior pastor (like we have today) in the new testament. As a matter of fact, there was no church building (other than borrowed buidlings that were occasionally used).<br /><br />If you were to study history, you would discover that was the case until the 3rd century when Christianity became fashionable in Roman society and the church began to borrow practices from the pagan culture.<br /><br />The church borrowed the idea of a "pastor" from the pagan temples who hired eloquent oraters to lead their services.<br /><br />"Believing that the scripture teaches that there is a pastor to lead the church (under Christ) helps in interpreting this passage."<br /><br />And that's the entire problem isn't it? You are superimposing your already preconceived (and self-serving) ideas upon the text instead of using a good hermaneutic.<br /><br />That's why it is so important for each individual to learn how to interpret the Bible correctly for themselves and not depend on someone who has conflicting interests.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-13731846868399367332011-05-31T10:04:27.491-04:002011-05-31T10:04:27.491-04:00"I disagree. These words can be used together..."I disagree. These words can be used together with it erring."<br /><br />Only if you equivocate on the word "requires" and don't mind the contradiction in 2 Corinthians 9:7.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-5493715623436858902011-05-31T10:02:20.654-04:002011-05-31T10:02:20.654-04:00"On a tertiary subject, like this, I am OK wi..."On a tertiary subject, like this, I am OK with the differing interpretations. The holding to the tithe is not new and many men of good theological understanding (better than you or I) still hold to it. I don't call for the heresy truck for every person who comes to a different, well known and held conclusion."<br /><br />I see a pattern here Jon. Once again you are wrong, but offer no apology. <br /><br />You ask me to "show the world" where you said you didn't care as if I were making it up. I do exactly what you ask, and you go on as if it didn't happen. Most people would be humbled at that point and admit they were in the wrong. But not you Jon.<br /><br />I am not finding scripture that states that all Biblical truth is not worth defendinding. Please supply the text that states that truth is not important in all matters.<br /><br />Did you notice that while you were arguing for an OT tithe for 3 days that tithing was not an unimportant issue. You were arguing for it with great passion accsusing those who spoke against it as not being equal with "great men of God." <br /><br />Now that you have discovered that you are wrong, it has become a "tertiary" issue where the truth is not so paramount.<br /><br />Self-serving.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-19349123796470297442011-05-31T09:53:36.987-04:002011-05-31T09:53:36.987-04:00"I have wrestled with this much longer than e..."I have wrestled with this much longer than ever speaking with someone unknown about it. The position I hold now is one, for example, Dr. Akin holds and I have heard him share for more than a decade. So to think I first heard it here was simply wrong."<br /><br />It didn't appear that you were "wresting" with the issue when you were arguing (unsucsesfully) for it for 3 days.<br /><br />My favorite bit of bad thinking on your part is where you tried to pit me against the "men of God" that you were listeing to at the time. Since you have changed your mind, perhaps now you can see how blind loyalty to a man is a handicap in discovering the truth.<br /><br />Dr. Akin must not have been very persuasive. For it was only after a 3 day discussion with me that you changed your mind. It is only logical to assume that you were offered new information in the discussion.<br /><br />I laugh every time to attempt to employ the "unknown person" slight. It only makes you look worse since the "unknown person" is obviously the one with a superior knowledge of scripture.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-18594194774026326282011-05-31T09:45:14.423-04:002011-05-31T09:45:14.423-04:00"Please show me how 2 Cor. 9 teaches that gra..."Please show me how 2 Cor. 9 teaches that grace is not greater than the law or that the law is greater than grace? I am missing it."<br /><br />As usual Jon, your logic is backwards. <br /><br />When you make the claim - you are responsible to back it up with scripture.<br /><br />Where is the verse that states that grace giving is more than giving under the law (23%).<br /><br />Until you can do that, that is your opinion Jon. Nothing more.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-30578299850071468132011-05-31T09:42:44.819-04:002011-05-31T09:42:44.819-04:00"I hadn't pretended anything. I stated a ..."I hadn't pretended anything. I stated a fact. Not enough info for you? Seems so but I can't help that."<br /><br />So you are asking me to believe that you held to a belief for 50 years, had a 3 day discussion with me, changed your mind on Monday, and that had no effect?<br /><br />As Judge Judy likes to say: don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-4710645469907162492011-05-31T09:38:59.301-04:002011-05-31T09:38:59.301-04:00"My position for the tithe was not out of hea..."My position for the tithe was not out of hearing others speak but my approach to scripture and understanding of it. I admit and am not unashamed to say that I stood with many a fine man of God on this subject for years. That my changing on this subject does not negate others who believe the tithe. I do believe the final say so on the tertiary subject may still be different and so those who still find peace to stand on the tithe, I do not consider stupid or followers of men."<br /><br />This is typical double-talk Jon. Full of contradcitions.<br /><br />Jon, it is obivous that you only followed men for the first 50 years of your life. <br /><br />If you had truly studied scripture, you would have discovered the NT model for giving in 2 Corinthians 9:7. You would have noticed that this verse contradicted your beliefs.<br /><br />You would have observed that the OT required 3 tithes and that you were promoting only one.<br /><br />You would have discovered that the OT tithe was always food and was given to the poor.<br /><br />From history you would have learned that the tithe wasn't observed for the first 700 years of the NT church, and that the idea was borrowed from land leasing principles from the 8th century secular culture.<br /><br />That fact that you are not ashamed to be ignorant of easily discernable biblical teaching because you are following men says volumes about your priorities.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-3864956551496354222011-05-31T09:30:32.045-04:002011-05-31T09:30:32.045-04:00"It seems you are unaware of God's call u..."It seems you are unaware of God's call upon a man to pastor / preach. That's OK, I'm not here to convince you of that."<br /><br />Exactly what are you here for Jon?<br /><br />I've been trying to figure that one out for years now.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-4882368690966852632011-05-27T20:48:27.938-04:002011-05-27T20:48:27.938-04:00Changing the subject, Jon. you are the master of d...Changing the subject, Jon. you are the master of deflection.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-59179172815234460632011-05-27T17:08:08.809-04:002011-05-27T17:08:08.809-04:00"Of course that word "requires" is ..."Of course that word "requires" is necessary to be taught to the sheep if one is making a living from the Gospel."<br /><br />It seems you are unaware of God's call upon a man to pastor / preach. That's OK, I'm not here to convince you of that.Jon L. Esteshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13197096460227507823noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-69438504911367799402011-05-27T17:05:34.819-04:002011-05-27T17:05:34.819-04:00"After days of discussion, even you were not ..."After days of discussion, even you were not able to avoid the facts. It was obvious that you had not studied the subject on your own (other than proof texts given by others who also pushed this false doctrine)."<br /><br />My position for the tithe was not out of hearing others speak but my approach to scripture and understanding of it. I admit and am not unashamed to say that I stood with many a fine man of God on this subject for years. That my changing on this subject does not negate others who believe the tithe. I do believe the final say so on the tertiary subject may still be different and so those who still find peace to stand on the tithe, I do not consider stupid or followers of men.<br /><br />" you pretended like you had come to that conclusion on your own. "<br /><br />I hadn't pretended anything. I stated a fact. Not enough info for you? Seems so but I can't help that.<br /><br />"So you want me to believe that after 50 years of holding on to one belief, you discussed it with me for several days and were not able to defend your position and a mountain of contrary evidence was presented to you (obviously for the first time) - that had no influence on your decision?"<br /><br />I have wrestled with this much longer than ever speaking with someone unknown about it. The position I hold now is one, for example, Dr. Akin holds and I have heard him share for more than a decade. So to think I first heard it here was simply wrong.<br /><br />"The funniest part of the whole discussion is that you left Friday you proclaimed that I was waisting my time trying to convince you that the 10% was not for today.<br /><br />Then you show up on Monday and try to pretend like that discussion had nothing to do with you chaning your mind."<br /><br />I also have stated back then that my time here (then) was a time of humor, nothing too serious in the give and take - a lot of ROFL type stuff. I have since apologized for that approach and my attitude then. I am willing to discuss, ask questions and seriously approach this site. I may be wrong at times but I may not be. never with intent.<br /><br />"Later in the day you said that I was right and you were wrong and did apologize and give me credit. After you were confronted."<br /><br />I think the comment was something like, if you need to be thanked then I thank you. At that time I was willing to feed your ego.<br /><br />"It's not new. It's also not in the Bible. It's an old preacher's saying (tradition) to get around the clear teaching of NT giving from 2 Corinthians 9:7."<br /><br />Please show me how 2 Cor. 9 teaches that grace is not greater than the law or that the law is greater than grace? I am missing it.<br /><br />""Please show the world where I said I didn't care."<br /><br />I have no problem with church people believing that the Lords' tithe is still required. Giving by grace instead of law requires at least that"<br /><br />On a tertiary subject, like this, I am OK with the differing interpretations. The holding to the tithe is not new and many men of good theological understanding (better than you or I) still hold to it. I don't call for the heresy truck for every person who comes to a different, well known and held conclusion.<br /><br />"Your use of the word "requires" by definition means that what you are promoting is not grace."<br /><br />I disagree. These words can be used together with it erring.<br /><br />"Of course that word "requires" is necessary to be taught to the sheep if one is making a living from the Gospel."<br /><br />To believe a pastor should not be paid goes against Timothy and 2 Cor.. Believing that the scripture teaches that there is a pastor to lead the church (under Christ) helps in interpreting this passage.Jon L. Esteshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13197096460227507823noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-2386870474231222902011-05-27T15:46:31.006-04:002011-05-27T15:46:31.006-04:00"Giving by grace instead of law requires at l..."Giving by grace instead of law requires at least that."<br /><br />Your use of the word "requires" by definition means that what you are promoting is not grace.<br /><br />May 27, 2011 3:33 PM<br /><br />Exactly! I wish more pew sitters would study deeply on their own. If they did, guys like Jon would not last 5 min as teachers of the Word.<br /><br />Of course that word "requires" is necessary to be taught to the sheep if one is making a living from the Gospel.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com