tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post1843221069659887696..comments2024-03-23T22:54:58.661-04:00Comments on FBC Jax Watchdogs: Time for Churches to Look to the Jews on How to Fund a Church - and It Ain't the Tithe!!FBC Jax Watchdoghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comBlogger28125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-48368651243392184532014-05-21T13:13:17.859-04:002014-05-21T13:13:17.859-04:00The Eastern Orthodox church also operates on a due...The Eastern Orthodox church also operates on a dues system. Ex. Membership in the ladies club is extra.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-58448041293921789072014-05-07T11:53:31.286-04:002014-05-07T11:53:31.286-04:00Wow...that's the most ridiculous thing I'v...Wow...that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Non-Christians love this model because they apparently fund social clubs. No dead-beats at the social clubs to be sure, right! But, perhaps dead-beats are the very people that need to be served and ministered to. Now there is a novel idea!Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14660164622888737083noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-73262821617157087222014-04-21T22:05:43.706-04:002014-04-21T22:05:43.706-04:00I heard a mega pastor claim about 17% of his congr...I heard a mega pastor claim about 17% of his congregation tithes. This suggest that 83% do not believe in tithing. Majority wins.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-31588286345507491412014-04-16T22:26:09.453-04:002014-04-16T22:26:09.453-04:00Most of those reading this notion of NT tithing ha...Most of those reading this notion of NT tithing have never seen the true gospel as recorded in the Pauline Epistles. Do a word study on the word "mystery" and see for yourself that the death, burial and resurrection of the Lord is the key to the mystery and the answers to any false teaching that fails to consider the mysteries revealed by Jesus to Paul. It really is an eye opener.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-73684854391519407132014-04-16T21:02:45.556-04:002014-04-16T21:02:45.556-04:00I think it would work much better paying for your ...I think it would work much better paying for your memnership that way. Perhaps I would start going back to church. Jews are a trigger for being raised a Fundie..first we were supposed to be just like them as they were the People of God...and then suddenly we hated them because they did not believe in Jesus and were going to burn in hell. Ahhh..memories... :( Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-55299694276500852872014-04-16T18:46:31.530-04:002014-04-16T18:46:31.530-04:00Bwahahahahahaha!Bwahahahahahaha!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-35392830783555021732014-04-16T00:54:19.426-04:002014-04-16T00:54:19.426-04:00Sushi! Did someone say Sushi? Now we are getting ...Sushi! Did someone say Sushi? Now we are getting somewhere.. <br /><br /><br /><br />Dr. Jupiter aka Dr. Jnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-50509537093408085942014-04-15T21:06:58.430-04:002014-04-15T21:06:58.430-04:00Great post and idea. Why shouldn't the wealth...Great post and idea. Why shouldn't the wealthy be able to buy out the best season tickets and box seats now that churches have stages instead of altars? They should be able to purchase private audiences with the senior pastors as well. What does the riff raff need with that kind of access anyway? Let them sit in the balconies eating raisins out of their pathetic Ziplock baggies or watch online. <br /><br />Pretty sure this is what Jesus had in mind during the Sermon on the Mount...."Blessed are the super wealthy; for they shall be afforded these special reserved monogrammed massage chairs and not develop phlebitis." If those apostles had been more economic minded they wouldn't have needed that pesky miracle. They'd be selling their own sushi at 200% markup. And just imagine the book, CD and DVD revenues for that one sermon. Who'd need ResultSource? Mega churches are all about sitting at the cool table anyway. The country club dues structure just cuts out on the obsequiousness. <br /><br />Christians and coliseums? Who'd have predicted?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-76448921352408950282014-04-15T13:27:32.574-04:002014-04-15T13:27:32.574-04:00Strategy...
Now that you have accepted Christ we d...Strategy...<br />Now that you have accepted Christ we do believe you should attend a local fellowship...not neccesarily ours. However if you choose us for your family -we are a family and everyone helps. Every thing we do will be free of charge-because we Havent gone into debt- unless you Choose to "pay forward" to something to help others. <br /><br />Our staff has determined a graduated payment plan based on income that every single person here abides by and that plan is open for all to see at any time.<br />Annually each member is "asked" to submit a confidential income tax statement to the budget office and based on it you will be billed. <br /><br />With that as a basis... A body may even vote themselves to "give" 12-13% thereby honoring the old fashion tithe and offerings issues. Wow...lets see... Would lead to proper budgeting (Dave Ramsey), true honest possible faith campaigns, etc.<br /><br />And lest you try to poopoo the submitting a tax form... Think of ALL the places you already do so! Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-27628863603967565692014-04-15T10:32:05.947-04:002014-04-15T10:32:05.947-04:00I think the idea, serious or not, of membership du...I think the idea, serious or not, of membership dues for evangelistic congregations is a horrible idea as it flies in the face of the great commission. However, it is no more horrible than the current approach of many SBC churches and I think that is what WD was getting at. If the leadership is focused on making true disciples much of this will sort itself out. Feeding the monster leads to compromise. Churches should avoid loans and debt. Don't build or buy until the Lord has provided the cash. Trust the Lord to provide for your church and if it fails trust him more. The real problem is those who lead their churches with a business mentality instead of a kingdom perspective. Too many Christian celebrities and "men of god" seem to think they need to help the Holy Spirit out. Ergun Caner did it with lies about his past, these MOG do it with highly questionable fund raising practices. The dues approach is far more honest, I'll give you that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-64791677668443213962014-04-15T07:13:55.410-04:002014-04-15T07:13:55.410-04:00WD: In my mind, I was thinking of comparing FSU wi...WD: In my mind, I was thinking of comparing FSU with each individual local religious community, not with "evangelical christianity" as a whole. :) I wonder if FSU's religious studies department would be interested in conducting this giving research. :)Jew by Choicenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-36319946849892050672014-04-14T20:53:47.453-04:002014-04-14T20:53:47.453-04:00In a way our SBC churches already have practice mu...In a way our SBC churches already have practice much of this although in different areas for years...<br />Chtistian concerts and Pastors Conferences use (free of charge) church facilities and labor then the ticket $ is too high to attend AT YOUR OWN Church...Oh Yea plus "artist circle" seats and "premium sessions".<br />OR<br />Way High priced mission trip junkets <br />OR <br />Way High priced overseas youth mission trips....<br /><br />The economic divide in churches has already been set. Its just been kept quiet. The "haves" have and do / The "have nots" keep quiet. Then add badgering over tithing...? <br />So sounds like the synagogues have just cut the crap and said go where you can afford to.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-36245894149533069132014-04-14T17:16:49.985-04:002014-04-14T17:16:49.985-04:00JBC: I'll chime in here. True that FSU has 300...JBC: I'll chime in here. True that FSU has 300,000 potential donors. But evangelical Christinanity has way more than 300,000 "potential donors" (some call them giving units) in the state of Florida. The many small churches in our city and most southern cities, each having their own buildings, own preacher, is where the money is drained away.. I dare say that if you took all the church contributions in the state of Florida and compared it to the alumni association offerings of the major state institutions, the churches would have it beat by a mile. Just a guess. But not much good is done with all that money, since it all goes to buildings sitting empy 6 days a week, and seminarians who don't hold jobs that are actually providing a service to humanity (other than to stroke their church members and raise funds).FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-87622546820644941112014-04-14T13:29:38.614-04:002014-04-14T13:29:38.614-04:00In response to Thor:
With all due respect, I thi...In response to Thor: <br /><br />With all due respect, I think your FSU/UF vs. religion comparison is apples to oranges, though I do agree that their model is much more effective than the "pompous stomping about on stage". But here is where I disagree: According to FSU's website, as of today, FSU says the alumni is nearly 300,000 strong. They have a pool of 300,000 potential donors. Right there is how they can get so many millions is revenue. How many local religious groups can claim the same? And the number of potential donors for FSU will only go up. <br /><br />"They give willingly, cheerfully, not under compulsion." Yes, they are not told that they aren't true Xians by not giving a mandatory 10%, or that a curse will come upon them.<br /><br />"Those non-profit institutions seem to have no problem getting "members" to pay to join their alumni associations." - There won't be too many problems if you constatly harass potential donors with phone calls late into the night (gotten many from FSU, by they way) and mailbox marketing. One day they'll crack! :)Jew by Choicenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-39933230810033401582014-04-14T12:33:31.856-04:002014-04-14T12:33:31.856-04:00Lets take religion out of it. Let's look at F...Lets take religion out of it. Let's look at Florida State and Florida. Those non-profit institutions seem to have no problem getting "members" to pay to join their alumni associations. And their most successful alumni give millions upon millions for constant building improvements and maintenance, education, research and athletics. Their members wear the school colors and have a lot of pride in their organization. They give willingly, cheerfully, not under compulsion. Hmmmm. Seems to garner much more revenue, by hundreds of millions per year, than some pompous ass stomping around on stage.<br /><br />The point is, people are smart. They give to what they know is accomplishing some real good in society. No whining and stomping from University fundraisers. No religious hocus pocus language to try and convince people to give. And oh yeah, EVERY salary is made public. From the janitor to the President. Thornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-80059959925137271802014-04-14T12:00:33.451-04:002014-04-14T12:00:33.451-04:00Let's not forget also that tithes can only be ...Let's not forget also that tithes can only be collected by the Levites, thus THE reason us Jews do not "tithe" at all, though we are strongly encouraged to give 10% of our income (to OUR charity of choice). None of this "cursed if not to "church"" BS. And even though you may look at the membership charges as a price-list, no synagogue will turn away a member who is unable to pay that amount. Every synagogue I have been a member of will take into account your income and reduce membership costs (but I have also never lived in a city with more than 1 choice). As a side note, my local Rabbi teaches, actually visits the sick, performs funerals, marriages, etc., and earns much less than the like of Furtick et al. And yet we "money-grubbing Jews" practice membership dues to that go towards salaries, buildings, maintenance and education. Go figure!Jew by Choicenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-44450458510753491842014-04-14T11:57:28.102-04:002014-04-14T11:57:28.102-04:00No, I'm not "jerking your chain", I&...No, I'm not "jerking your chain", I'm calling you out for making a really irresponsible and stupid post. No matter how much you try to finesse and damage-control it after the fact, it is clear that you were being facetious in urging churches to adopt the modern Jewish synagogue model, as evidenced by your "selling" of the model to the constant target of your criticism by pointing out to them the money-making potential of the system to them. Any reasonable person can see that you were, consciously or not, being derogatory of the Synagogue model.<br /><br />If I were you I'd just fold right here on this one and take this post down.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-16564911739029599352014-04-14T11:49:17.580-04:002014-04-14T11:49:17.580-04:00Derek - see my previous comments that answer your ...Derek - see my previous comments that answer your concern. My comment immediately following yours was not directed at you, but the Anon commenting prior to you.FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-6204997998020433032014-04-14T11:43:34.868-04:002014-04-14T11:43:34.868-04:00Nothing "noble" about it. It is a system...Nothing "noble" about it. It is a system that works EVERYWHERE in every facet of society - YMCA memberships, season tickets for football, you name it. <br /><br />In contrast to that, preachers are preaching fantasy "curses" and "first fruit" principles, broken down fridges, holes in purses, corrupt children and job loss - that is all pure poppycock scare-tactic nonsense that people are beginning to see through. <br /><br />I point to the Jewish community using this system because, well, if there was ANY PLACE we would expect to see the Old Testament tithe preached it would be in the modern day synagogue!! But they don't. Because they know, like I know, like even most preachers who preach the tithe know - the true OT tithe of 23 1/3% just won't cut it in a society where we are already tithing to our national government.<br /><br />I know you know this, you're just jerking the Dog's chain. But I spelled it out for you if you really are truly stupid enough not to see the point. :)FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-67778342095194448372014-04-14T11:41:47.199-04:002014-04-14T11:41:47.199-04:00Watchdog,
Love your blog. However, I am a little ...Watchdog,<br /><br />Love your blog. However, I am a little concerned that your attempt at humor may come at the expense of those Jewish communities of faith. I don't want anyone to think that you are mocking or diminishing their faith or synagogue traditions.Dereknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-51234089763883126342014-04-14T11:30:26.681-04:002014-04-14T11:30:26.681-04:00Oh, so you are not being facetious, you really are...Oh, so you are not being facetious, you really are, in fact, urging Christian churches to adopt this system, because it's a great system that the noble Jews have come up with?<br /><br />Nice try at digging yourself out of the hole. You're making Ergun Caner envious.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-87991821359274313232014-04-14T11:23:39.845-04:002014-04-14T11:23:39.845-04:00Yeah, twist it into an anti Semitic post. Nope. Th...Yeah, twist it into an anti Semitic post. Nope. The Jews are NOT "money grubbers" where they are charging memberships. To the contrary - it is not "money grubbing" to establish clear expectations on what the members are to give. This allows members to shop and compare and decide perhaps which synagogue they can afford. They understand that the Old Testament tithe doesn't apply to Jews living in the United States, as citizens of this country and not Israel. They understand that all of producers are "tithing" already to OUR country and government, and to expect people to give 10% of their income because of Malachi 3 or because of some "first fruits" principle in the Old Testament is sheer madness at best, and outright extortion at worst.<br /><br />So I commend the Jewish community for this. I wish pastors would stop the lying about the tithe, stop scaring people, and most of all: quit whining about the 80/20, and stop the shallow gimmicks that are insulting people's intelligence.FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-13675412498587742452014-04-14T11:02:35.147-04:002014-04-14T11:02:35.147-04:00Not sure what the ultimate message of this post is...Not sure what the ultimate message of this post is. Best I can tell, it's "Churches, go ahead and just drop all pretensions of discretionary generosity. Given your constant dunning of your congregations for money, don't try to hide your shameless money-grubbing anymore. You know, like the Jews."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-87910561836578481232014-04-14T10:32:32.583-04:002014-04-14T10:32:32.583-04:00When the Carolina Panthers built there stadium and...When the Carolina Panthers built there stadium and introduced their PSLs, I told people it wouldn't be long before places of worship started using the same idea. I was routinely laughed out. As a pastor, I don't like the idea, but the only things I am surprised about is the time it has taken for places of worship to implement the idea and the small number involved.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-6730401201272270452014-04-14T08:59:21.354-04:002014-04-14T08:59:21.354-04:00Correct about the front row section. That's wh...Correct about the front row section. That's where the action is. Wonder if just to get noticed by the rest of us?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com