tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post2234992634389700873..comments2024-03-23T22:54:58.661-04:00Comments on FBC Jax Watchdogs: FBC Jax Media Presents..."Trouble Clef"FBC Jax Watchdoghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comBlogger70125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-88742878682888333842009-12-05T14:41:55.306-05:002009-12-05T14:41:55.306-05:00First of all, I completely saw how God was glorifi...First of all, I completely saw how God was glorified in the video. The messsage is that Dr. Whitmire and all of us need to trust in God and receive peace from Him even in the most trying circumstances. Second of all, just an observation, could it be that you are so critical of FBC Jax that you failed to see the point? My goodness, you're having a fit over a four minute video.John Wyliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16095740536301292747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-2350660286801611492009-10-28T21:35:18.227-04:002009-10-28T21:35:18.227-04:00Hi - It is sad that churches have become so engros...Hi - It is sad that churches have become so engrossed in entertainment and pastors with high paying salaries. Many of them do not even realize they are being used by Satan as part of an agenda. Hosea 4:6 is clear that God's people are destroyed for lack of knowledge Here are some great sermon's I thought you might enjoy and post for others. <br /><br />Disturbing 501C3 Corporate Church Report: <br />http://www.sermonaudio.com/search.asp?speakerWithinSource=&subsetCat=&subsetItem=&mediatype=&includekeywords=&keyword=Scott^A.^Johnson&keyworddesc=Scott+A.+Johnson&currsection=sermonsspeaker&AudioOnly=false&SpeakerOnly=true&keywordwithin=501&x=30&y=16<br /><br />The Church Whoring Around: <br />http://www.sermonaudio.com/search.asp?speakerWithinSource=&subsetCat=&subsetItem=&mediatype=&includekeywords=&keyword=Pastor^Michael^Slattery&keyworddesc=Pastor+Michael+Slattery&currsection=sermonsspeaker&AudioOnly=false&SpeakerOnly=true&keywordwithin=church+whoring&x=16&y=16<br /><br />New Age Bible Versions:<br />http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=42385501735388990&hl=en#Hosea 4:6noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-49703518413165022882009-10-12T18:51:57.400-04:002009-10-12T18:51:57.400-04:00To Oct.9...9:13 ASPIRING PASTOR:
It seems that yo...To Oct.9...9:13 ASPIRING PASTOR:<br /><br />It seems that you may actually be called to be a pastor. You exhibit a true pastors heart in the few words written here. It could be that the Lord may actually be able to use you for HIS glory. You certainly present a spiritual challenge to the (money makers) pastors claiming to be what it doesn't appear they are. God bless you in your endeavors.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-2502128250064110002009-10-10T16:46:05.165-04:002009-10-10T16:46:05.165-04:00Anon 9:13, The third chapter in Titus is directed ...Anon 9:13, The third chapter in Titus is directed to the Christians at large in how to live in a pagan society. Chapter one does deal with the leaders in the church and chapter 2 deals with the members of the church. The letter, as a whole is sharing the how to's for the life of Christian leaders, church members and Christians at large.<br /><br />I think you will do well in ministry, you have a heart for the things of God (or so it seems from your words).<br /><br />I'll never make what Mac makes nor do I think about such things. To many other things to be dealing with other than income. I've made little and presently make a good income in ministry but I know it can be taken away in the blink of an eye. I don't even get caught up in the amount others make because it becomes depressing. My God will take care of me and if a pastor is being paid to much that is between him, the church and God. Of the three, One will have the final say.Jon L. Esteshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13197096460227507823noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-34218455160774565592009-10-09T21:13:50.612-04:002009-10-09T21:13:50.612-04:00This ignorant poster would love to hear your brill...This ignorant poster would love to hear your brilliant response (with scripture, not just accusations).<br /><br />-------------------------<br /><br />This is my first time posting on this blog, but that Titus quote is way out there. Titus IS a pastor, and the FIRST section of the letter tells us how pastors and elders are to be considered:<br /><br />"For an overseer, as God's steward, must be above reproach. He must not t be arrogant or quick-tempered or a drunkard or violent or greedy for gain, but hospitable, a lover of good, self-controlled, upright, holy, and disciplined."<br /><br />---------<br /><br />This blog speaks from the hearts of many of us who see too much greed among these kinds of pastors today - and I mean that from the perspective that Dr. Brunson makes 300k a year, because that's what I've been led to believe.<br /><br />I don't think it's wrong for a pastor - especially one with a high level of education - to be paid on an equivalent level with others. I aspire to ministry, and I doubt I'll make much and spend a long time paying back loans, but if I made the average I don't think anyone could say that was wrong.<br /><br />But for 300k a year...something like 6x the average...you could pay 5 other preachers! You could plant churches, provide evangelism tools and free training to members!<br /><br />I'd like to believe that - if and when I become a minister - I can unashamedly post both the church financial records and my personal ones. I won't say its wrong for a pastor to make decent money, or have fancy things - I just think that such extreme amounts are wrong.<br /><br />I lost my job at Merrill Lynch months back due to the economy (I only made $13 an hour.) and went on unemployment when I couldn't find work. I felt a lot of personal shame about not being able to find work for some time, and the cut in finances was very burdensome...but I still made sure I got my 10% to my church.<br /><br />There's no way I'd continue to attend FBC Jax under such circumstances.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-70981391159452686532009-10-06T21:26:37.721-04:002009-10-06T21:26:37.721-04:00Anon 9:51. Well said. I believe you will find that...Anon 9:51. Well said. I believe you will find that most congregations know very little bible doctrine. This is mainly due to pastors telling stories from other books, rather than the BOOK. When they go home they say to each other (a lot of them) wasn't that a good sermon, isn't he so intelligent. I learned about something that happened long ago, that I had not read in my history lessons at school. Or another one will say, good sermon, however what was the main point again? As long as they can laugh a little and forget their troubles for 20-30 minutes the "church goers" believe they have worshipped. And if they tithe then they are set for another week of blessings. Disgraceful and unbibilical are most sermonnets coming out of these buildings in our day and age. No wonder God wants to spit them out and Jesus stands on the outside knocking...He certainly isn't inside and they do not desire Him to be inside as that would put an end to their way of life. Some will get this and others never will!!!! This is no parable its the fact.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-63438879305940625142009-10-06T16:07:08.015-04:002009-10-06T16:07:08.015-04:00"I think there is a danger in thinking the mo..."I think there is a danger in thinking the money given to the church or the money we bring home after a week at work is ours. It is not."<br /><br /><b>Nice try. But how do you get around the fact that YOU are the steward of it?</b><br /><br />- Well in context to what I responded too, the person said:<br /><br /><i>Wouldn't it be interesting to see how much is spent on staff retreats, conferences and travel? But I forget, you have a committee you can trust overseeing that <b>your money</b> is spent wisely.</i><br /><br />- Now if you have a problem take it up with whoever thinks God's money is theirs. No mention in the post I responded to about being stewards. Nice attempt to deflect the subject though but the attempt failed.<br />--<br /><br />"But we baptists love to take ownership of things which never belonged to us in the first place. FBCJax is in God's hands, not the pastors. I would be asking God what He want to teach me through such a time as this, not what He wants to teach then next guy."<br /><br /><b>He TOLD YOU in the scripture. You are just ignoring it or do not know it. Crack open that dusty Bible of yours and forget the Lifeway and Topical studies that teach you NOTHING. For once in your life pray and study on your own.</b><br /><br />- Told me what? Don't worry about my bible being dusty, it is well worn and filled with personal notes from study. And that is from my greek bible, not your NIV. But I ask again... What did He TELL me?<br />-- <br /><br />"My God will straighten the things out in the church in a manner better than I could even attempt. But then, I spent too much of my life telling God how He ought to do things because I saw the picture much better than most. Oh, the freedom in letting God be God."<br /><br /><b>He left you instructions in the Epistles. According to you, we should ignore the Epistles since God will handle everything. I guess you think they should not have been written since they are largely instructions to the churches on WHAT TO DO in the Body of Christ.</b><br /><br />- No one on this end of the keyboard is ignoring the epistles. but then again you make some mighty bold accusations and never once give scripture to support your position.<br /><br />Let me share with you a vital piece of scripture from a small epistle written to the pastor on the isle of Crete.<br /><br /><i>Titus 3:9-11 <br />[9] But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. <br />[10] A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; <br />[11] Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself. </i><br /><br />Look specifically at verse 10. How many times are you going to rebuke Mac? The passage says twice. Then reject. I'll let you do some study to learn something about the way to handle problems such as listed by many on this blog.<br /><br /><b>You act is if God never works through people to deal with problems. If that is truth then why did Paul advise the Corin church in 1 Corin on what THEY should do? Why didn't he tell them to wait and let God handle it?</b><br /><br />No one on this blog anti Mac is handling the problem all they are doing is talking about it among those who "feel" the way they do. They are tickling each others ears and scratching each others backs. No one is sharpening iron here.<br /><br /><b>Why not let God be God and forget witnessing?</b><br /><br />If this is really important to you, share with us the last person you personally led to Jesus or the last time you knocked on a strangers door and offered then eternal hope?<br /><br /><b>Are all people at FBCJax this ignorant of the Word?</b><br /><br />This is typical of your line of thinking, are you sure I am a member of FBCJAX?<br /><br />But simple statements not backed up except by bravado (and you do that well through a keyboard) does not hold water.<br /><br />Of course I simple wanted to post a comment stating the fact that God owns everything and is still sovereign.<br /><br />This ignorant poster would love to hear your brilliant response (with scripture, not just accusations).Big Texnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-25980340597357357872009-10-05T11:23:10.013-04:002009-10-05T11:23:10.013-04:00"So, the purpose was to create a fun video th...<i>"So, the purpose was to create a fun video that could be used in the retreat schedule to bring home some of the etiquette issues we strive to avoid."</i><br /><br />So let me get this straight. Gum-chewing, people wearing hubcaps as earrings, setting their (ugly) purses on the railing, texting on their cell phones while singing, reading (Joel Osteen's book), and throwing beach balls around the choir loft are "etiquette issues" with the choir? How old are you people anyway?<br /><br />Please, just be honest and say it was for entertainment purposes and leave it at that.New BBC Open Forumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18300115421477555376noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-5848761249477228302009-10-05T10:50:38.602-04:002009-10-05T10:50:38.602-04:00I see nothing wrong with a video of this sort. Th...I see nothing wrong with a video of this sort. The money that is already comitted to the media budget is going to be spent whether that media staff sits and does nothing or they do this kind of video.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-52792287113176899152009-10-05T09:51:16.079-04:002009-10-05T09:51:16.079-04:00"I think there is a danger in thinking the mo..."I think there is a danger in thinking the money given to the church or the money we bring home after a week at work is ours. It is not."<br /><br />Nice try. But how do you get around the fact that YOU are the steward of it?<br /><br />"But we baptists love to take ownership of things which never belonged to us in the first place. FBCJax is in God's hands, not the pastors. I would be asking God what He want to teach me through such a time as this, not what He wants to teach then next guy."<br /><br />He TOLD YOU in the scripture. You are just ignoring it or do not know it. Crack open that dusty Bible of yours and forget the Lifeway and Topical studies that teach you NOTHING. For once in your life pray and study on your own.<br /><br />"My God will straighten the things out in the church in a manner better than I could even attempt. But then, I spent too much of my life telling God how He ought to do things because I saw the picture much better than most. Oh, the freedom in letting God be God."<br /><br />He left you instructions in the Epistles. According to you, we should ignore the Epistles since God will handle everything. I guess you think they should not have been written since they are largely instructions to the churches on WHAT TO DO in the Body of Christ.<br /><br />You act is if God never works through people to deal with problems. If that is truth then why did Paul advise the Corin church in 1 Corin on what THEY should do? Why didn't he tell them to wait and let God handle it?<br /><br /> Why not let God be God and forget witnessing?<br /><br />Are all people at FBCJax this ignorant of the Word?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-81888042168166303472009-10-05T08:59:50.553-04:002009-10-05T08:59:50.553-04:00I will make a tongue in cheek justification for Ma...I will make a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tongue-in-cheek" rel="nofollow">tongue in cheek </a>justification for Mac (and family) salary ...<br /><br />Assumptions:<br /><br />1 <a href="http://fbcjaxwatchdog.blogspot.com/2008/09/pie-charts-and-giving-units.html" rel="nofollow">Giving Unit</a>, makes about $50,000- in salary. And this Giving Unit gives a 10% tithe to the church. That would be $5,000- in yearly tithes to the local church.<br /><br />FBC Jax last year budget was around $16,000,000-.<br /><br />Mac and family, makes around $500,000- (mind you this is a conservative estimate).<br /><br />How many Giving Units does it take to fulfill FBC Jax burdget?<br /><br />Answer: 3,200-<br /><br />For each Giving Unit, how much of that money goes to fund Mac and his family?<br /><br />Answer: $156.25- (per year per Giving Unit)<br />-----------------------------------<br />Let us look at a church that has only 100 Giving Units.<br /><br />Budget for that church: $500,000-<br /><br />Pastor Salary: $50,000-<br /><br />For each Giving Unit, how much of that money goes to fund Pastor?<br /><br />Answer: $500- (per year per Giving Unit)<br />-----------------------------------<br /><br />There you go, FBC Jax. Clearly your pastor is being under paid per year per Giving Unit.<br />-----------------------------------<br />Maybe one needs to increase the Giving Units from 3200 to 8000.<br /><br />This is purely hypothetical, but assuming the same ratios hold, then FBC Jax should increase or pay more for Mac and family this new amount:<br /><br />$1,250,000-<br /><br />I rest my case. [Please forgive me, if I misplaced any decimal points. It's is still early in the morning and I have not had my coffee yet :) ]Rameshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09728392311602332613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-85316631249375148342009-10-05T08:40:15.179-04:002009-10-05T08:40:15.179-04:00Wouldn't it be interesting to see how much is ...<i>Wouldn't it be interesting to see how much is spent on staff retreats, conferences and travel? But I forget, you have a committee you can trust overseeing <b>that your money</b> is spent wisely.<br /><br />October 4, 2009 11:48 PM</i><br /><br />I always thought when I gave an offering or tithe (not debating the subject of tithing for the non-tithing group) I was giving back a portion of that which did not belong to me anyway.It was already God's, not mine.<br /><br />I think there is a danger in thinking the money given to the church or the money we bring home after a week at work is ours. It is not.<br /><br />But we baptists love to take ownership of things which never belonged to us in the first place. FBCJax is in God's hands, not the pastors. I would be asking God what He want to teach me through such a time as this, not what He wants to teach then next guy.<br /><br />My God will straighten the things out in the church in a manner better than I could even attempt. But then, I spent too much of my life telling God how He ought to do things because I saw the picture much better than most. Oh, the freedom in letting God be God.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-81937350033450015432009-10-05T08:15:42.734-04:002009-10-05T08:15:42.734-04:002 Vanities 4: So appropriate!!! I love it. I have ...2 Vanities 4: So appropriate!!! I love it. I have no quarrel with the choir itself, they do good work in general.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-46352828375988632502009-10-05T06:06:38.177-04:002009-10-05T06:06:38.177-04:00I find it interesting that so many honest and cari...I find it interesting that so many honest and caring Christians come to this blog for the first time and criticize the blog. <br /><br />Dog needs counseling.<br /><br />Dog is obsessed.<br /><br />Dog needs to mind his own business. <br /><br />Dog is not glorifying God with the blog.<br /><br />Dog this and Dog that.<br /><br />Church, your pastor, I mean preacher, is making 6 times the average salary in the U.S.! <br /><br />Ahh! <br />(throws hands up in disgust, walks away mumbling about First Baptist Corporation of Jacksonville.....)Billnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-1672137291173146502009-10-05T00:02:25.929-04:002009-10-05T00:02:25.929-04:00Off Topic:
Grace and Truth to You [Pastor Wade Bu...Off Topic:<br /><br /><a href="http://kerussocharis.blogspot.com/2009/10/mossab-hassan-yousef-son-of-hamas-who.html" rel="nofollow">Grace and Truth to You [Pastor Wade Burleson] > Mossab Hassan Yousef, The Son of Hamas, Who Himself Has Become a Follower of Jesus Christ</a>.<br /><br />Please watch the evening service video, and at 57:20 mark, you will hear Yousef's views on accepting offering money for his speaking engagement. A very engaging and clear thinking person.Rameshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09728392311602332613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-30613677446977744372009-10-04T23:51:33.791-04:002009-10-04T23:51:33.791-04:00So, the purpose was to create a fun video that cou...So, the purpose was to create a fun video that could be used in the retreat schedule to bring home some of the etiquette issues we strive to avoid. <br /><br />Yes, Choir etiquette is a huge deal in the New Testament churches. I think it is in <br />2nd Vanities 4Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-51900493864449485572009-10-04T23:48:41.370-04:002009-10-04T23:48:41.370-04:00Hopefully this clears up some of the wild speculat...Hopefully this clears up some of the wild speculation.<br /><br />October 4, 2009 9:48 PM<br /><br />Exactly what wild speculations are you referring to? <br /><br />Show that video to a production company and get an estimate on the cost. Let them know the actors were free.<br /><br />That is a lot of dough for 'fun'. Someone was paying for the production cost. Like they think about government, so many think stuff done for church is free. <br /><br />But lets face it. It is not about one short video. It is the principle involved. I can promise you there are tons of similar things your church staffers are doing in the same vein. But since you will never see a financial breakdown, you will never know. <br /><br />Wouldn't it be interesting to see how much is spent on staff retreats, conferences and travel? But I forget, you have a committee you can trust overseeing that your money is spent wisely.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-69279614232838307132009-10-04T23:18:40.504-04:002009-10-04T23:18:40.504-04:00Dear Anon 4: 34
Would the apostles agree with you...Dear Anon 4: 34<br /><br />Would the apostles agree with your analysis that they don't make too much money?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-8898869866645660212009-10-04T22:25:15.754-04:002009-10-04T22:25:15.754-04:00Fun video??? Whats wrong with using the video to w...Fun video??? Whats wrong with using the video to win souls for Jesus? Isn't that the reason for a church to begin with? As usual just fun and games.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-12861165497671814812009-10-04T21:48:45.270-04:002009-10-04T21:48:45.270-04:00I am in the FBC choir. I believe a choir member, p...I am in the FBC choir. I believe a choir member, possibly a choir officer, floated the idea of the video to Dr. Whitmire and he liked it. The idea was to illustrate a constant issue the choir faces with various things that distract our ministering. The video was done so it could be shown at the recent choir's retreat in St. Augustine. The purpose of the retreat was to introduce this year's Christmas music. The retreat was paid for by choir members and not church subsidized. The retreat is actually a lot of work as we practiced the music most of the time. It started on a Friday at 6:30 and went to Saturday noon. So, the purpose was to create a fun video that could be used in the retreat schedule to bring home some of the etiquette issues we strive to avoid. Hopefully this clears up some of the wild speculation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-28831423927715224952009-10-04T21:45:30.392-04:002009-10-04T21:45:30.392-04:00You are an idiot!You are an idiot!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-30677929339264493772009-10-04T21:41:37.347-04:002009-10-04T21:41:37.347-04:00The light that this blog brings to anyone that rea...The light that this blog brings to anyone that reads it is an eye opener. A church should not be surprised when their financial records become public. The question is: Why do church leaders think it is NOT THE BUSINESS of the members WHO GIVE THE MONEY to know the particulars, such as salaries and expenditures of THEIR church?<br />They (members) are responsible to God for what they do, so must church leaders be responsible to God and the people giving the money. The sound of music has an expensive ring to it now-a-days. With all the downsizing within the business community it would not be surprising if some churches will and should have to do the same. High salaries, bonuses, and "expense accounts" are not a prerequisite for doing Gods work!!! This fallacy handed out today, that money is THE most important component in the success of a church, is just plain wrong. Money has taken the place of allowing God to work. God can provide what He ordains. But, people don't rely or WAIT on the Lord, anymore. If they want something they BUY IT. And how do they buy it? They pass the offering plate again and again. How can you teach people to have FAITH, and rely on the Lord to provide their needs if the church it's self spends money like water and by the way, is not accountable to those giving it. Just telling the people that there is a finance committee taking care of the "business", is not really acceptable. That's like someone else spending my money but not telling me how. And then telling me it's none of my business! Pitiful just plain pitiful.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-83080051050958201682009-10-04T17:59:34.740-04:002009-10-04T17:59:34.740-04:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Straight Pathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15919874001285472336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-2763728511839630922009-10-04T17:48:44.159-04:002009-10-04T17:48:44.159-04:00Jim Whitmire is one of the truest men of God you w...Jim Whitmire is one of the truest men of God you will ever find.<br />Too bad he has drank the Fbc koolaid and supports Dr Hypocrite. It only figures, I guess, if you can get the work...take it!! At least he didn't come to the church with alterior motives & hidden agendas.<br />CCAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-74278715838263589322009-10-04T17:08:18.010-04:002009-10-04T17:08:18.010-04:00Change Change Change
So how do you brothers and s...Change Change Change<br /><br />So how do you brothers and sisters in the Lord love your new CHANGES?<br /><br />Rick Warren has done a fine job of bringing to this generation many changes. He has been able to get rid of those old church members who will not compromise. He has taught preachers that what ever it takes to grow a church is OK, even if [as he does] the preacher has to S T R E T C H the truth a little. He has shown preachers that if they change the By Laws preachers can keep their jobs NO MATTER WHAT THEY DO. <br /><br />So, brothers and sisters, what is $200,000 or $300,000 salary among staff members?<br /><br />CHANGE IS GREAT! <br /><br />ISN'T IT?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com