tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post3495812398812241069..comments2024-03-23T22:54:58.661-04:00Comments on FBC Jax Watchdogs: Spending (and Raising) God's Money - A Return to the Topic of Tithing, Spending, and GivingFBC Jax Watchdoghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comBlogger44125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-66276061271192759622016-01-18T10:51:58.864-05:002016-01-18T10:51:58.864-05:00Thanks for sharing this article, I've really e...Thanks for sharing this article, I've really enjoyed reading this. I have recently discovered <a href="http://www.facebook.com/TonyCharalambidesuk" rel="nofollow">Tony Charalambides</a> and the great fundraising work he does along with the Listen Fundraising team. You should check it out!<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00749806048126396306noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-30782059481262623592010-09-06T19:52:53.054-04:002010-09-06T19:52:53.054-04:00I don't think gaining insight on the actual ru...I don't think gaining insight on the actual rules and regulations that IRS places on churches taking in designated offerings is silly. It's what the law of the land says and I thought people would like to know that there is a legal reason why you can't designate money without having a fund established already. <br /><br />And I would tell you that I do alot of the things that you mentioned about helping people but I'd just get thrown under the bus again. Nobody on this blog, knows me so I nothing I say is bragging one way or the other. I just wanted to stand up and say I was in favor of supporting my local church and I was confident where the money went once it was given.<br /><br />Why not ask me a question about what I was saying if I wasn't clear enough, instead of making me out to be a Pharisee? Pretty harsh wordsKennethnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-67850294734645648422010-09-06T09:54:14.371-04:002010-09-06T09:54:14.371-04:00"there is no way you could read this blog and..."there is no way you could read this blog and think there is not a negative undertone towards giving. I completely understand about not believing tithing is biblical. But go back and read some comments from this thread and then previous times talking about tithing and the ones that will come up this month."<br /><br />You still do not get it. NO ONE IS NEGATIVE about New Covenant giving. Most just do not want to be under the law of tithing because Paul said if you keep the law,you are a debtor to the keep the whole law.<br /><br /><br />the "tithe" is much more than 10%. More like 23%.<br /><br />There is no command to tithe to build a church building or maintain it. Your argument about designations are silly. Those are man made rules and have nothing to do with scripture. Kenneth, get out of tradition and get into the Word. You are following the traditions of men.<br /><br />You have brothers and sisters in Christ who need your help. While they are in need, giving to a building and to maintain a man made operation could very well be sinful.<br /><br />If you do not believe me, get into the Word and pay attention to Acts 1-5. Follow the passages about the offerings Paul gathered for the persecuated believers in Jerusalem.<br /><br />Where do you see anything about a "tithe" after the Cross? And while you are at it, read Matthew 6 about those Pharisees who wanted everyone to know what they tithed. <br /><br />So find a single mom who needs help. Fix her brakes on her car or give her a gift card for groceries or something. Do it in the Name of Jesus.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-1518647889679741742010-09-05T13:43:30.401-04:002010-09-05T13:43:30.401-04:00Anon 2:48
there is no way you could read this blo...Anon 2:48<br /><br />there is no way you could read this blog and think there is not a negative undertone towards giving. I completely understand about not believing tithing is biblical. But go back and read some comments from this thread and then previous times talking about tithing and the ones that will come up this month.<br />I don't care if my pastor preaches at other churches/ conferences and I certainly wouldn't care if he goes on a cruise. Whoever plans the trip gets to go for free, that's the way those things have always worked. <br /><br />If you don't like your preacher or something about the church, it doesn't mean that the light bill doesn't have to be paid anymore or that the missionaries stop needed support. You can designate your giving for missions. If you still go to that church, then you should be a part of helping pay the bills and support the ministry.<br /><br />Also, I wish WD would spend some time on exactly what designated gifts are and how they are to be used. Many of you might not know that a fund has to be established for any designated gift before it can be received by the church. If you try to write a check for a designated ministry or purpose and a fund doesn't exist for that, then it is illegal for the church to take it and give you contribution credit.Kennethnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-84123999054629793892010-09-04T14:48:48.042-04:002010-09-04T14:48:48.042-04:00"I wasn't bragging. There is just so much..."I wasn't bragging. There is just so much negativity when it comes to giving on this blog."<br /><br />You are wrong. There is no negativity to GIVING. There is negativity to TITHING. You simply do not understand the HUGE Covenant difference between the two.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-64591580332196017392010-09-04T12:49:19.489-04:002010-09-04T12:49:19.489-04:00Actually, Kenneth is to be commended for he is giv...Actually, Kenneth is to be commended for he is giving as it sounds like the Holy Spirit is guiding him to give. There is nothing to complain about if the Holy Spirit is speaking to a Christian's heart.<br /><br />But for clarity's sake, Kenneth, it's not giving that most of these people are against. It is the requirement of the OT "tithe", its use as a club to beat church members with the idea of stimulating more giving, and the unBiblical substitution of the pastor and the local church for the Levites and the Temple. <br /><br />The NT tells us that God loves a cheerful giver. Someone burdened by the tithe (where it takes away from supporting themselves/their family) is usually anything but cheerful.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-37631380726157550072010-09-04T11:34:51.938-04:002010-09-04T11:34:51.938-04:00I wasn't bragging. There is just so much negat...I wasn't bragging. There is just so much negativity when it comes to giving on this blog. Just wanted to stand up and I say I give and where the money goes to. That's all, nothing more, nothing less.Kennethnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-87145452821004045492010-09-04T08:56:40.772-04:002010-09-04T08:56:40.772-04:00I do not "give" to those crusing the Dan...I do not "give" to those crusing the Danube or shopping in Paris. Because, believe it or not that is where much of it goes!!!! Otherwise, people would know the exact salary figure being paid to individuals.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-60485470837847292782010-09-04T00:22:04.673-04:002010-09-04T00:22:04.673-04:00There is no need to list churches. You are changin...There is no need to list churches. You are changing the subject. I am a member of a local body of believers. I give about 11% of my income to the church. It helps to pay for salaries of a wonderful staff, building costs, and is supporting missionaries both domestic and overseas that are telling people about Jesus while we have a civilized discussion about giving.<br />"<br /><br /><br />You should not be so proud and bragging. God knows who you are. Ever read Matthew 6?<br /><br />Where in the NT does God tell us to build buildings? We are now the temple where God resides. That money could help other Christians in need. And why do you pay others to do worship for you? Where is that in the NT?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-28361244506166384382010-09-04T00:18:52.060-04:002010-09-04T00:18:52.060-04:00"There is no place in the Bible in either OT ..."There is no place in the Bible in either OT or NT that affirms NOT giving."<br /><br />I have not seen one single comment that affirms NOT giving. <br /><br />And you should be ashamed of 11%. The total tithe was more like 23%. Where do you see 10% taught in the NC? If you are going to live by the law, even a part of it, you will be judged by the law. Look it up, that is from the NT scriptures.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-63535489164265857132010-09-03T23:50:42.266-04:002010-09-03T23:50:42.266-04:00Kenneth 9:44. You are getting a little sarcastic h...Kenneth 9:44. You are getting a little sarcastic here. Loosen up a little. I do not believe any Christian is thinking the widow did anything wrong. She gave "her all". Sort of like the woman who gave all her money to physicians who never cured her. She had to secure healing from the Great Physician. Similarly, the woman at the well told all her neighbors come he told me all about myself. Likewise, Jesus said about Mary Magnalene that she gave all of that ointment in the alabaster box. And then there was Mary the mother of Jesus who kept all of these things in her heart. <br /><br />I believe Jesus wanted us all to realize that "all" means all and most of us hold on to most of our things way too long. They eventually wind up in estate sales or given to those we leave in our wills. The widow was recognized because she had no more to give, it was her all and she was talked about 2000 years ago and still is being praised and discussed today. God bless her and any like her/him.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-42126070439901841992010-09-03T23:38:00.707-04:002010-09-03T23:38:00.707-04:00Kenneth 9:34. You suggest that there is neither in...Kenneth 9:34. You suggest that there is neither in either Testament a commandment not to give. Please observe that in the OT the giving was from the Jews to the Jews. The gentiles were not commanded to give anything as they were not Jews. In the NT the epistles of Paul teach that collection was made and given to the "saints". Notice those who received the funds were the "saints" not a building, and not an organization. Caesar was the King and he had the authority to take whatever he wanted in taxes. God got his part from the Jews. Jesus was talking to the Jews. He never addressed the gentiles to provide funding for His work it was all Jewry. Some people get their doctrines mixed up when they put the church of the NT into the OT Law and pastors love to use the OT for collections to carry out their WORK!!!! Today we are still taxed as a people, however, giving to God through so many different organizations...Catholic, Mormon, Baptist, Methodist, Episcopalians, Church of Christ, Church of God, and on and on. There are hundreds and even thousands of organizations standing in line asking for our money. Which one is the correct one and how do you know which one is the right one? Hope this helps you and anyone else when it comes to passing the buck.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-91661120695770864602010-09-03T21:44:33.381-04:002010-09-03T21:44:33.381-04:00The widow gave her 2 mites. You're right, she ...The widow gave her 2 mites. You're right, she wasn't required too. She gave all she had because she loved God. Too bad they didn't have blogs back then so that one of you guys could've told her how wrong she is to thing everything she has is God's.Kennethnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-60154521764205238272010-09-03T21:34:14.281-04:002010-09-03T21:34:14.281-04:00Anon 9:55
When I asked Jesus Christ to forgive me...Anon 9:55<br /><br />When I asked Jesus Christ to forgive me of my sins, I gave my life to him. Everything I have is from Him and because of Him. My money is from Him, so it's all His. Just like everything is His.<br /><br />There is no need to list churches. You are changing the subject. I am a member of a local body of believers. I give about 11% of my income to the church. It helps to pay for salaries of a wonderful staff, building costs, and is supporting missionaries both domestic and overseas that are telling people about Jesus while we have a civilized discussion about giving.<br /><br />I just don't see where there is a Scriptural problem with anything I have just typed or my previous statement. There is no place in the Bible in either OT or NT that affirms NOT giving. Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's.Kennthnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-57555489796277524852010-09-03T14:47:51.699-04:002010-09-03T14:47:51.699-04:00"Quite frankly, the way "tithing" i..."Quite frankly, the way "tithing" is taught and practiced today could very well be encouraging sin. And in many cases, we can see that happening before our eyes."<br /><br />September 3, 2010 1:56 PM<br /><br /><br /><br />"AMEN.AMEN,AMEN"!!!Bro./Min.Rod.H.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-47682048484137552972010-09-03T13:59:24.679-04:002010-09-03T13:59:24.679-04:00"The truth of the passage is that the widow s..."The truth of the passage is that the widow should have "NEVER" had to giving all her living;<br /><br /><br />"THE RELIGIOUS LEADERS WERE REPONSILBE FOR TAKING CARE OF HER;" as required by God's Law!!!<br />[Ex.22:22;26:12;Deut.10:18;24:17;27:19;Job 22:9;Jer.22:3Isa.1:23;10:1-2;Mal.3:5;Zec.7:9-13;Luke 20:47;1Tim.5:3,16],and there are plenty,plenty more like this!!!"<br /><br />Exactly. It was a rebuke as well as pointing out the hypocrisy of the Pharisees who sound just like many of our modern day pastors.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-12075211203366475112010-09-03T13:56:49.891-04:002010-09-03T13:56:49.891-04:00The widow gave her two mites and Jesus praised her...The widow gave her two mites and Jesus praised her because of it. I am all for the debate about how much to give but nobody should try to justify not giving as a suitable alternative. Now before I start getting bashed on here, I'm talking about a lifestyle of giving over a long period. I'm not talking about specific instances when medical bills or some tragic accident has occured and for a short time somebody is not able to give.<br /><br />September 3, 2010 9:22 AM<br /><br />This is where basic interpretation is not taught because it would not benefit those who should teach it.<br /><br />What is the occassion in this passage? What is the setting?<br /><br />Who is Jesus speaking to? And what message was he sending to that audience/person?<br /><br />See, you do not understand the New Covenant or you would not make this huge mistake.<br /><br />Yes, we are to give but if you notice when the New Covenant came in (Jesus fulfilled the Old Covenant) the giving was to others in the Body who needed help. Even in other cities. Some was used to those going out preaching the gospel and planting churches. No where are we given a percentage to give in the New Covenant. Some were selling their posessions and even their estates (Barnabas) to give to those who were needy. <br /><br />It was not a requirement to build a building or maintain a building and professional "clergy". (There is NO laity in the New Covenant)<br /><br /> Quite frankly, the way "tithing" is taught and practiced today could very well be encouraging sin. And in many cases, we can see that happening before our eyes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-42331417317185029932010-09-03T11:33:52.043-04:002010-09-03T11:33:52.043-04:00When the pastor drives a newer car and more expens...When the pastor drives a newer car and more expensive car (s), lives in a more desirable and high scale residence, takes trips often, sells his own sermons for profit, takes time to get on a paid circuit, hires his own family and lets other staff members go then something is definitely wrong about that institution that needs fixing and the sooner the better. Its out of control and who needs it??Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-40334553184000787502010-09-03T11:30:19.581-04:002010-09-03T11:30:19.581-04:00Kenneth: Notice that Jesus remarked about those th...Kenneth: Notice that Jesus remarked about those that loved to hear the clank of coins in the offering plate. The widows two mites were so small they could not make a noise at all. Truly in giving silence is golden.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-73330805861657048212010-09-03T11:05:41.986-04:002010-09-03T11:05:41.986-04:00"The widow gave her two mites and Jesus prais..."The widow gave her two mites and Jesus praised her because of it. I am all for the debate about how much to give but nobody should try to justify not giving as a suitable alternative."<br /><br />September 3, 2010 9:22 AM<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Kenneth the passage of the widow giving her two mites is another passage that those who support tithing twist to their own advantage!<br /><br />Notice the context of that passage on the widow.It is sandwiched between two passages of condemnation of the relgious leaders of Christ day!<br /><br />The revelation of the passage is that the religious leaders had become so corrupt and "GREEDY"(sounds familiar),that they perverted Judaism to the point that it preyed on the most vunerable in Jewish society(widows,strangers,orphans,poor) instead of aiding them)!!!<br /><br /><br />The truth of the passage is that the widow should have "NEVER" had to giving all her living;<br /><br /><br />"THE RELIGIOUS LEADERS WERE REPONSILBE FOR TAKING CARE OF HER;" as required by God's Law!!!<br />[Ex.22:22;26:12;Deut.10:18;24:17;27:19;Job 22:9;Jer.22:3Isa.1:23;10:1-2;Mal.3:5;Zec.7:9-13;Luke 20:47;1Tim.5:3,16],and there are plenty,plenty more like this!!!<br /><br /><br />Secondly Kenneth just because many of us "KNOW" that we are not under the "LAW" of the tithe,and are "FREE" to give as we purpose in our hearts;<br />Now give abundantly because of "OUR LOVE FOR CHRIST"!!!<br /><br /> That is the principle of "GIVING" in the "NEW TESTAMENT"!!!<br /><br />No mature "True" believer would not want to give to the true work of God!!!<br /><br />Love!!!Bro./Min.Rod H.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-29979904901555718752010-09-03T10:43:19.437-04:002010-09-03T10:43:19.437-04:00You give to GOD not to Man...read the BOOK!
Septe...You give to GOD not to Man...read the BOOK!<br /><br />September 2, 2010 5:05 PM<br />___________________________________<br /><br />AMEN and AMEN! Question anon Sept 2, 5:05 p.m. Why do MEN keep taking up the money and spending it then?<br /><br />How do I give it to GOD, not MAN, when they make me write my check to MEN? <br /><br />God is not pleased. He is a jealous God. Stop giving to some corporation in your town (local "church") and robbing God. Give to God, not to men. Unless your argument is that your church, and the men who spend the money ARE actually God himself? Is that what you are saying? Idolatry is what?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-40439591639963269832010-09-03T10:40:14.517-04:002010-09-03T10:40:14.517-04:00it's the people under your own roof that are r...it's the people under your own roof that are robbing you.<br />__________________________________<br /><br />Sounds like the attitude of a professional clergy person.<br /><br />If a man doesn't take care of his own family he is worse than an infidel. Should we, as a society, be giving more to support staff and buildings and less to our own families? This is Christianity. How many preachers later in life realize that they were terrible fathers, terrible husbands, and terrible stewards because they were so busy giving their time, talents, energy, and money to some local congregation that they no longer even live in the same town?<br /><br />Don't believe this garbage. Give and sacrifice for your own family first, then help the poor and needy second, then give to where you attend church last, if you can, and if they are actually doing any real ministry other than taking your money and doing exactly what they tell you not to do: use the funds for themselves and their families!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-12591254719304152332010-09-03T10:09:40.744-04:002010-09-03T10:09:40.744-04:00Who said it:
"Independent, original thought ...Who said it:<br /><br />"Independent, original thought has been made illegal in this country. We’re a nation of sheep, too lazy to think for ourselves, too fearful to stand on truth, too convinced of our own righteousness to consider another man’s perspective."<br /><br />This observation was made by Jason Whitlock at Fox Sports regarding a dispute between Jim Brown and Mike Holmgren: <br /> http://www.comcast.net/articles/sports-nfl/20100902/Whitlock-Jim-Brown/<br /><br /><br />"Holmgren, like most successful coaches, is a bully."<br /><br />Those two things seem interconnected in the SBC churches too...arrogant Bullies and fearful, lazy, sheep. The similarities are obvious.<br /><br />That first quote would certainly apply to the WD saga. And the second quote to Mac Brunson. Sometimes, though, you bully the wrong guy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-40844621051785396892010-09-03T09:55:31.228-04:002010-09-03T09:55:31.228-04:00Kenneth: You have got to be kidding, huh? Just whe...Kenneth: You have got to be kidding, huh? Just where are these churches that deserve our money. Would you post a list so that we can determine the credibility of your remarks? We are the church not some organization or just because a large crowd is inside a building. Looking forward to seeing your list of churches. Thanks.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-44597293233331614282010-09-03T09:22:34.036-04:002010-09-03T09:22:34.036-04:00Every Scripture in the Bible that deals with tithi...Every Scripture in the Bible that deals with tithing / giving are all based on the idea that you are supposed to give something to help the church. Not giving is not an option.<br /><br />The widow gave her two mites and Jesus praised her because of it. I am all for the debate about how much to give but nobody should try to justify not giving as a suitable alternative. Now before I start getting bashed on here, I'm talking about a lifestyle of giving over a long period. I'm not talking about specific instances when medical bills or some tragic accident has occured and for a short time somebody is not able to give.Kennethnoreply@blogger.com