tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post5697447054355290242..comments2024-03-23T22:54:58.661-04:00Comments on FBC Jax Watchdogs: Mac: "Deacon Worriers are Not Trusting Jesus"FBC Jax Watchdoghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comBlogger72125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-74758588288003648512008-11-06T11:37:00.000-05:002008-11-06T11:37:00.000-05:00If giving continues to decline, because of the eco...If giving continues to decline, because of the economy and possibly because people are tired of "bleeding money" for this preacher and his family, maybe before we borrow money, we should "reassess" salaries of the "top jobs". And just how necessary is it we have the A group and the promotional firm in Atlanta. How many "support" systems must one preacher have. The Holy Spirit was in charge before. But now man is in charge and I guess we see where that gets us.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-30771661374905053982008-11-06T08:09:00.000-05:002008-11-06T08:09:00.000-05:00MarkThe deacons have already been told that debt w...Mark<BR/>The deacons have already been told that debt will be incurred if the giving stays down.<BR/>Try to be objective and not so defensive.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-42170963919546377132008-11-05T11:16:00.000-05:002008-11-05T11:16:00.000-05:00Anon 12:09 a.m. - to answer your question...Those ...Anon 12:09 a.m. - to answer your question...<BR/><BR/>Those things you listed are wrong in my opinion and are reason enough for me to quietly leave the church. They were done in the open and yes, the church and the city were well aware of them. I would not blog about them, but I would leave since apparently that is what that congregation is now all about. (Not being Jesus to others and ministering to them, but rather building schools and programs and raising funds and expanding the brand, and following celebrities and marketing firms.)<BR/><BR/>However, when by-laws are changed secretly, and salaries and job descriptions remain secret, and land gifts are accepted upon arrival, and commercials are played during the preaching hour, and anyone asking questions are visited by deacons and anonymous emailers are ignored and spat upon, then, sir, a blog is needed. You got that? If not, then get it...in two weeks. :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-74456694376969902982008-11-05T09:07:00.000-05:002008-11-05T09:07:00.000-05:00For those defenders who think that just because a ...For those defenders who think that just because a man is a Pastor that God has called him. Please explain what JESUS meant when He warned of WOLVES in SHEEP clothing in Matt.7:15. Who are the false Christ and false prophets JESUS' mentioned in Matt.24:5,11,24? The Apostle Paul urged the Ephesus Elders night and day for three years about GREVIOUS WOLVES and men teaching PERVERSE(distorted) things infiltrating their Church; Who were these interlopers?[Acts 20:28-31].The Corinthian Christians were alerted to men who were masquerading as MINISTERS of rigtheous when in fact they were proxies of Satan who was himself presenting himself as an ANGEL of LIGHT.Who are they?[2Cor.11:3,13-15].Paul warned the Christians in Galatia of dangerous men who were distorting the Gospel,and condemned those false teachers[Gal 1:7-9].GOD GAVE TRUE PREACHERS to counter the false so that the Ephesus believers would not be "TOSSED TO AND FRO,with every wind of doctrine(Teaching),by the SLEIGHT of men,and cunning craftiness,whereby they lie in wait to DECEIVE"[Eph.4:14]. The Colossians were in danger of being lead away "through philosophy(et.Psychology,history,etc) and vain deceit,after the traditions of MEN,and not after CHRIST[Col.2:8].The Holy Spirit discloses in Scripture of "doctrines(Teachings) of demons" being perpetrated by HYPOCRITICAL LIARS(Preachers)who have NO conscience[1Tim.4:1]. Timothy was charged to preach the Word because a time was coming when people would not LISTEN TO SOUND DOCTRINE,but chose teachers(Preachers) who will tell them what they want to hears versus what they need to hear.[2Tim.4:14]. Titus was informed to deal with "many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers(PREACHERS);who mouths must be stopped,who SUBVERT whole houses,teaching things which they ought not,FOR FILTHY LUCRE'S SAKE[Titus 1:10-11].Peter gets in on the action by warning the early Christians and those today of FALSE TEACHERS INFILTRATING the Church and teaching "FEIGNED"(plastos;plastics;false)words to make merchandise(gain,money) of the people[2Pet.2:1-3].Finally the bond-servant Jude counciled the believers to "earnestly contend(battle) for the faith(truth) which was ONCE delivered to the saints". Why this warning? "For there are certain MEN(false teachers)CREPT IN UNAWARES"[Jude 4]. Lets put to rest this NONSENSE that just because a man is a pastor or preacher that it was God who called him. Many are called by Satan,money,power,prestige,sex or other selfish reasons. This also believe that I have only given you a small sampling of what the Bible warns about deceptive men posing as Prophets,Apostles,Pastors,Teachers,and Evangelist,the Bible is replete with these references.We are commanded to be Berean Christian and "SEARCH THE SCRIPTURES DAILY,whether those things be so".[Acts 17:11].That means that you examine every thing taught and done by me or anyone else by the written Word of God(THE BIBLE).Jesus stated that"you will know them by their fruit".Also the responsibility of a Pastor is to protect,nuture, care for be an example for the people of God over which HE has been made the overseer; To feed the flock of GOD which HE has purchase with HIS ON BLOOD[Acts 20:28].FBC Jax I've said it once and I'll say it again base on what I seen and been personally told by members and Dr.Dogs blog:You guys are in big trouble with Brunson unless he changes!!it is writtenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01714871619485847739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-73986162712961531912008-11-05T08:39:00.000-05:002008-11-05T08:39:00.000-05:00Anon 6:44:I'm no dummy, I assure you. What I unde...Anon 6:44:<BR/><BR/>I'm no dummy, I assure you. What I understand is that what you indicate simply is not possible if the previous bylaws don't say so; the bylaws are the legally-recognized operating documents of the church. They may be changed as their contents state, but not otherwise; all members--rich or poor or in-between--must adhere to them and conform their behavior accordingly. The bylaws should reflect an accurate understanding of the Scriptures. Standing on the previous bylaws may require a outing of folks blogging here, but right's right. How about, at the least, posting excerpts of the previous (still valid?) bylaws which have been violated so that your members reading here--who don't have a copy or can't understand the copy they have--will know the legal leg they stand on for accusations made? Seems like the least that could be done.<BR/><BR/>"Trustee" is not a biblical position in the life of the NT church anyway (a corporate requirement--of no practical consequence to those elected to fill the slot in almost all churches). Congregational polity may permit it, if it doesn't otherwise violate Scripture; and, congregational polity can take the position away.<BR/><BR/>Is there an attorney blogging in this thread? He needs to speak up to share a legal viewpoint on this. The church cannot simply be stolen from its contributing members.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-3053713766708162462008-11-05T07:00:00.000-05:002008-11-05T07:00:00.000-05:00These trustee types have been looking down their n...These trustee types have been looking down their nose at many of us for years (most of us arn't rich and famous) we don't quite meet the financial and "social" standard THEY do , so we don;t count except what little money we can bring in. So trying to reason with these guys is impossible. The only thing we can do is keep praying or leave as many have. Many of us feel the pain of having lost our previous Godly pastors and now having NO church. We have served the Lord faithfully where we have been ALLOWED to. Many of us are nobody in the eyes of this ADMINISTRATION if anything we are considered dissenters and somebody to "get rid of". But we still have faith in Jesus and we are looking for His return when He will wipe away all tears. Even the ones we have cried over this church. Pray for us that have lost our church because we are "nobody" except to Jesus who is everything to us. Thanks!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-23451959096542771212008-11-05T06:44:00.000-05:002008-11-05T06:44:00.000-05:00ll:50 you don't understand. It doesn't matter whet...ll:50 you don't understand. It doesn't matter whether we have copies of the bylaws now or previous, as some have both. THE TRUSTEES ARE BEHIND MAC NO MATTER WHAT AND THEY RUN THE SHOW. If anyone challenged them it would be "Little Big Horn" all over again. Out you go.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-38744531760056918592008-11-05T00:44:00.000-05:002008-11-05T00:44:00.000-05:00"God doesn't walk on earth ..."Teresa of AvilaChri...<I>"God doesn't walk on earth ..."</I><BR/><BR/><B>Teresa of Avila</B><BR/><BR/><B>Christ Has No Body</B><BR/><BR/><I>Christ has no body but yours,<BR/>No hands, no feet on earth but yours,<BR/>Yours are the eyes with which he looks<BR/>Compassion on this world,<BR/>Yours are the feet with which he walks to do good,<BR/>Yours are the hands, with which he blesses all the world.<BR/>Yours are the hands, yours are the feet,<BR/>Yours are the eyes, you are his body.<BR/>Christ has no body now but yours,<BR/>No hands, no feet on earth but yours,<BR/>Yours are the eyes with which he looks<BR/>compassion on this world.<BR/>Christ has no body now on earth but yours.</I>Rameshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09728392311602332613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-5913876586820582892008-11-05T00:30:00.000-05:002008-11-05T00:30:00.000-05:00I served with a pastor once who, in his mind, came...I served with a pastor once who, in his mind, came to be the preacher of the church but not the pastor of the church--as he tried to explain later to our deacons. He held an earned PhD in Old Testament studies, but day to day the degree did the congregation little good; he didn't provide pastoral care or much leadership--and wouldn't go down the street half a block from the parsonage to visit a member dying of congestive heart failure. His sermon illustrations mostly came from viewing TV shows--which seemed to mean that he spent a lot of time in front of the tube. While he was paid a lot better than the other full-time ministry staff members (whose kids all qualified for free/reduced lunches at school--meaning that the state we lived in understood we needed to be ministered to as families!), he expected us to do his pastoral care responsibilities for him. Individually and as a staff, we tried to help him understand how things were and what members of the church were saying to us about him; but he never "joined the team," or admitted any faults/failures--until he was on his way out. The thing came to a head for me when, from vacation, he phoned to ask me to cover a very important base for him that he'd forgotten about--after several reminders not to; I went to the chairman of the congregation's personnel committee to report the matter so that, I told him, when the pastor came to him after returning from vacation to say that he wanted me fired, the chairman would know why I reamed out the pastor (did I mention it was the straw that broke the camel's back, and that God hasn't made a pastor yet that I'm afraid of if he's wrong? respect the office, not necessarily the man in it). The personnel committee chairman understood what was being said, prayed all night about the situation, and took control of the matter on the very next day. When the pastor came to say that he'd be leaving, I told him that I believed he should stay and grow up--just like the rest of us in ministry positions. None of us come to our positions with all the gifts or skills needed for the job (so, for Pete's sake, don't pay any pastor anywhere near $100,000 even if your congregation can afford it unless the cost of living honestly requires it!); we all must mature in our abilities and attitudes--and we have each other to serve with as a team for improving each other, as iron sharpens iron, if we'll humble ourselves enough to do it.<BR/><BR/>My guess is that most of your church's associate ministers are keeping their heads down waiting for the men of the church--any men in the church--to bring the thing to light and get it resolved. Some of you may be talking to some of those pastors but not mentioning it for fear of getting them in trouble somehow (good idea). Guys in the ministry with lots of years of experience BUT a lower role in the organization can offer really great, sound, biblical advice; lots of times, laymen ignore them or are too afraid to take any action--but the associate staff members start not think much of those laymen! If the associate staff members think badly of the FBCJax laymen posting here, I'd say THAT'S the reason why--not because they consider you renegades; I would, if you didn't do more than blog about it--my family's livelihood and future would depend on your action and I'd be stuck otherwise, which isn't either ethical or fair.<BR/><BR/>Just sharing some very real thoughts based on some very real experiences (and, yes, the experiences described were in a church smaller than FBCJax--are very many congregations LARGER than FBCJax? In our state, it was a good sized church--so why the church didn't pay better, I never knew, but I'm not there now.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-66317644108673577852008-11-04T23:56:00.000-05:002008-11-04T23:56:00.000-05:00WD: Excellent answer to Mark. God indeed expects m...WD: Excellent answer to Mark. God indeed expects men to "do the right things". Otherwise, we would all be robots. People expect Utopia on earth. We won't have Heaven until we GET TO Heaven! I have said man's free will can be used for good or bad. Unfortunately we are feeling the result of many "bad" decisions today. Man is corrupt and sinful, that is why it took the shed Blood of Jesus to save us. <BR/><BR/>Your comments re: Dr. Vines decision to "sponsor" Brunson: I am a tad less charitable than you here. Vines is the one that said from the pulpit" you have no idea of the changes coming to this church." I think he knew what we were in for. We now, after the fact, look to the "men" of the church to get us out of this situation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-60186911415370675372008-11-04T23:50:00.000-05:002008-11-04T23:50:00.000-05:00Does no one have a copy of the previous bylaws of ...Does no one have a copy of the previous bylaws of the church? You know that they continue to stand if they were violated in order to establish the present ones, right? Act on those bylaws to address the matter.<BR/><BR/>It often seems that church members don't have a copy of their congregations' bylaws--or, if they have them, that they have no clue what the bylaws are or what they say.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-36019059655890582692008-11-04T23:37:00.000-05:002008-11-04T23:37:00.000-05:00On God or man and a pastor in view of a call: over...On God or man and a pastor in view of a call: over the years, my family and I (as a pastor) have learned that we will know what to do if the congregation knows what to do.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-87169950457542098002008-11-04T23:36:00.000-05:002008-11-04T23:36:00.000-05:00anon 10:20 Thats the million dollar question tha...anon 10:20 Thats the million dollar question that has puzzled many of us. Maybe JV has been blinded by friendship or maybe we really didn't know him like we thought. ( I've sadly come to this conclusion) But I can tell you he is one of the BEST expositional preachers and always came across as humble. However many of us were shocked at his behavior at the Pastor's Conference.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-90415819396135837822008-11-04T23:34:00.000-05:002008-11-04T23:34:00.000-05:00Mark, brother. You are terribly misguided. It is y...Mark, brother. You are terribly misguided. It is your lack of discernment that gives Christians a bad name. And it is your shallow view that allows much abuse to occur in churches all over this country.<BR/><BR/>You say:<BR/><BR/><I>Don't you think that God would intervene if His will wasn't being done. Remember, He knows more than us and has the kind of power to change things that is beyond our comprehension. </I><BR/><BR/>That is dangerous. It is absurd. Why did God not "intervene" when Gray was molesting boys and girls? Where was God's power when Gilyard was texting obscene messages to teenagers, and engaging in sex acts in his office with young women? Why did God not intervene in these affairs? Did God NOT have the power? Did God NOT want to intervene, sir?<BR/><BR/>Answer? God was waiting for MEN to act. God doesn't walk into the pastor's studies and stop molestation. God doesn't walk on earth and put handcuffs on perverts like Gilyard before he preys on young women. God is expecting Christian men to stand up to abusers. Jesus is not walking on the earth to stop pastors from lying in pulpits and slandering women professors. God isn't sitting on finance committees or personnel comittees or on a trustee boards to object to a pastor selling ads on a pastor conference brochure for $1000 and selling "promotional packages" including stage time for $15,000. God depends on men to stop these things.<BR/><BR/>God doesn't stop abuse. Men stop abuse. God uses men to do it. So please, stop hiding behind the excuse of "God has the power to change things." Yes he does, but he uses men to recognize when change is needed, and to carry out the change.FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-82250942448785518922008-11-04T23:27:00.000-05:002008-11-04T23:27:00.000-05:00The church is not in debt, so this assertion about...The church is not in debt, so this assertion about going further into debt is invalid.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-23862231915365492242008-11-04T23:16:00.000-05:002008-11-04T23:16:00.000-05:00Great questions. I'll add one:Why would Vines go p...Great questions. I'll add one:<BR/><BR/>Why would Vines go preach at Darrell Gilyard's church after he retired, when he KNEW that Gilyard had tried to seduce one of Vines' own young women at FBC Jax, and even when he knew that Gilyard was a sexual predator, preying on women in his previous churches? <BR/><BR/>Answer: poor judgment, I hope, and not for money. Vines was a great preacher, one of the best in my opinion, but his judgment in preaching at Gilyard's church and his pursuing of Brunson are blights on his legacy. Then when he came here for PC 2007 and spit on anonymous emails and made his "you don't pay me 'nuff to be yo' preachah, brutha" quote...disgraceful. But with his years of faithfulness to feed the sheep and love the church...I hold no grudges and forgive Vines and have fond memories of the years he was my pastor.<BR/><BR/>The Brunson fiasco and subsequent fleecing of our church are harder to explain. Brunson had quite a few people duped. We had absolutely no clue that he was driven by marketing and promotions and looked to a church marketing firm as he does. We had no idea he would come here and live on Amelia Island for a year, build a million dollar mansion on a piece of property given by a wealthy church member...had no idea that wife and son were given jobs the day he was hired....none of this was known by the congregation when they voted...he was a blank slate and we trusted our previous pastor and search committee that they had done their due diligence, but obviously not. We had no clue he has a love of history that is equal and perhaps exceeds his love of scripture...that he would come here and berate us, and cut us down, and call us legalistic, and complain to other pastors behind our backs. We never saw it coming. Its so bad, that a large chunk of FBC Jax members can't face the reality that we have an abusive pastor. They can't deal with it for to face the reality is to face that our church is in deep decline. We suffer almost from a perverse sense of pride...that we can't face up to the problem we have with Brunson and to rid ourselves of him would mean that others in our city would see us as fallible. So many of our members have either left or they have drunk the Kool Aid. <BR/><BR/>To Vines' credit, he knew that for a smooth transition it would have been best to work with the new pastor as co-pastor...Vines was humble enough to share the pastorship with Lindsay...but now that we know Brunson's ego is larger than the auditorium and the RLA combined, and that he and honey have a penchant for the luxuries of life and gifts and perks...its clear to see why he didn't come to pastor with Vines when asked. He would have had to take a lower salary, wouldn't have been able to bring Honey and son on staff, certainly would not have been able to bring Maurilio here. <BR/><BR/>But the blame of where we are at NOW, with Brunson...is no fault of Vines. It lies squarely on Brunson himself, and probably more on the current lay leaders - the trustees and the chairman and vice chairman of the deacons. They have allowed this to happen, they have gone along with Brunson and allowed him to go UNCHECKED. <BR/><BR/>Likely when Brunson went to FBC Dallas, he didn't have the run of the place...he was a younger NC preacher who was probably in awe of FBC Dallas...he wasn't introduced at that point to the "church marketing" concepts of Maurilio Amorim. He probably wasn't plugged into the power structure of the SBC like he is now...and he didn't know how to play the game of salary negotiations and gifts and perks. Once he got there and saw the money and the power that a pastor could have, he learned the game, found that churches could be run by the same principles of large firms through the power of persuasion, marketing, and promotions. Once he learned the system, he brought the entire game to FBC Jax where he knew the rules of the power game from Day 1 and maximized his opportunities - putting his wife on staff, getting a full time job for his son way above his experience and qualifications...he really took us to the cleaners. And it all happend under the noses of the trustees.<BR/><BR/>So here we are...that is the FBC world according to Watchdog...FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-22482414532330967522008-11-04T23:11:00.000-05:002008-11-04T23:11:00.000-05:00Anonymous said... Mark P.About men in positions of...Anonymous said... <BR/>Mark P.<BR/><BR/>About men in positions of authority, ask yourself this question; did God put persons such as Hitler, Stalin, Saddam Hussein in positions of authoritarian rule? Not saying Brunson is that extreme, the point being God allows us the supreme gift of choice. <BR/><BR/>Ask yourself this question; Were the leaders you mentioned pastors or politicians? What do those tyrants have to do with out topic of church leadership? Of course Dr. Brunson isn't that extreme and to make any comparison is unwarranted,irresponsible and facetious! Don't you think that God would intervene if His will wasn't being done. Remember, He knows more than us and has the kind of power to change things that is beyond our comprehension. Even though you may not see it through your conspiracy tainted vision, God is at work in our church and great things are happening. That wouldn't be the case if our God wasn't the One who chose our leadership.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-60722671114300332492008-11-04T22:44:00.000-05:002008-11-04T22:44:00.000-05:00Anon 10:20pm:Please check these comments, they mig...Anon 10:20pm:<BR/><BR/>Please check these comments, they might answer your question.<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://fbcjaxwatchdog.blogspot.com/2008/10/how-not-to-preach-stewardship-sermon.html?showComment=1225329540000#c3957084999145176458" REL="nofollow">How NOT to Preach a Stewardship Sermon: Thy Peace said ...</A><BR/><BR/>Please follow the next 3 to 4 comments.Rameshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09728392311602332613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-41347538895766222402008-11-04T22:20:00.000-05:002008-11-04T22:20:00.000-05:00WD: In your 12:35 blog., today you stated that the...WD: In your 12:35 blog., today you stated that the search committee knew of Vines desire to bring Brunson here to take this church. If Vines was such a good preacher, why would he want Brunson to have this church? He had to know what would happen here. After being one of the preachers here for several years. And another strange thing. Why did Vines come here to his previous church at the pastors conference and say, "You would have to pay me big bucks to be yo preacha". I don't think Lindsay would have let Mac in the front door.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-18108929071211869872008-11-04T22:04:00.000-05:002008-11-04T22:04:00.000-05:008:38 Your are so right. Its like when the old folk...8:38 Your are so right. Its like when the old folks are no longer able to help put them in a nursing home. All of their funds go to the nursing homes and the church won't see any of it. How many of our pastors are presently or have ever been interested in nursing homes? Oh, thats right older people don't do much FOR the church. So why would the church do anything for them. Unless you are very rich, and the pastor can put you on a guilt trip to use or leave a ton of money to "the church". We have a neglected ministry in the old folks,. But of course we should give money we don't have to "missions", when we have a mission field , right in front of us. By the way, it looks like if we don't have enough money for repairs to the church maybe, we gave TOO MUCH to missions!, so we could look "mission minded" to the SBC. Money management in the church is a joke. Spend, spend, spend, where did it go. Oh, my , we are broke. How did that happen. How much do we have to borrow and what do we have to put up for collateral.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-43698788585182009302008-11-04T21:35:00.000-05:002008-11-04T21:35:00.000-05:00At the risk of imparting a depressing thought: As ...At the risk of imparting a depressing thought: As the churches go....so goes the nation.<BR/>Liberal....Liberal....Liberal!!!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-79239920902645876172008-11-04T21:19:00.000-05:002008-11-04T21:19:00.000-05:006:50: You are correct. Have the trustees discussed...6:50: You are correct. Have the trustees discussed these issues you have raised? If not, then there is very little if any thing that can be done to put things right!!!Some people,unfortunately, will never repent as they see repentance as a failure, and would never admit they could be WRONG.<BR/><BR/>One other thing, when a CEO does not meet plan (revenues greater than expenses) in this case expenses are greater than revenue, they normally are fired. There is still that possibility especially during this economic meltdown. But then Mac has promised or threatened to "borrow" us into debt.<BR/><BR/>I don't look for the trustees to do anything. They are the most self absorbed, egotistical, group of men in the church. Most of these men have been here for a long time and many of us had their number years ago. What I don't understand is how they have managed to help this preacher "ruin" this church and get away with it. Except that behind our backs they have LET the preacher steal this church. Through bylaw changes no one knows anything about and intimidation. What they can't see is the preacher only lets them stay "in power" as long as they support him. If they don't...it's off with their head. He doesn't care any more for them than he does any church member. It's just what they can do to help him keep control of this church and the purse strings. So forget the God's man stuff. This is a hostile takeover of a "business". Period, pure and simple.<BR/><BR/>If I were one of these "enablers", I would be so ashamed to let the Lord down and to let my church down, just to compromise and keep my pitiful position of pseudo importance!!! They are so desparate to be SOMEBODY. Badly done you guys.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-69781467146917346042008-11-04T21:10:00.000-05:002008-11-04T21:10:00.000-05:00Why not disengage and de-commission the A-Group an...Why not disengage and de-commission the A-Group and their Atlanta by-product; use their fees to upgrade the facilities and promotional campaigns upcoming.<BR/><BR/>Why doesn't the staff at FBCJ have the on-site abilities to promote the church themselves. Are they so inadequate or self-absorbed in their pigeon holes of blah, blah, blah leadership?<BR/><BR/>Once a poster how many pastors are on staff and paid by FBCJ; aren't any qualified to promote the church agenda without outside advertising contracts.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-42775895851760828592008-11-04T20:49:00.000-05:002008-11-04T20:49:00.000-05:00Anon 8:33Oh contrare....Mac Brunson DOES need our ...Anon 8:33<BR/><BR/>Oh contrare....Mac Brunson DOES need our money. He needs it VERY badly. That is why he has a marketing firm from Nashville and a promotions firm in Atlanta. He will be using our money to hire a marketing firm to help convince us to give more of our money to Mac's vision for our church. Mac very badly wants us to give more of our money. And if we don't....he will just put the church further into debt.FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-1475633491387921532008-11-04T20:38:00.000-05:002008-11-04T20:38:00.000-05:00Most people realize that the term "dead weight" us...Most people realize that the term "dead weight" used by Rick Warren and even FBCJ describes the exact folks they truly want to leave the churches. These are the long-term, faithful, serving and "older" congregants that have a solid base of the bible, an unequaled belief that pastors are to be gentle and kind, yet firm in biblical convictions and admonish sins against the Holy Spirit.<BR/><BR/>But more importantly:::: They want these older folks out of the church, because many now are existing on less income than when working, or current economic events have diminished their capacity to give to the church as they once did. These churches now want to appeal to a younger, hipper and less inhibited generation that is quite vulnerable to expositions of anyone who addresses them in their genre. That is what is happening at so many Baptist church, and now most especially FBCJ. Mac, Debbie and Trey Brunson support this egregious attempt to demean the true meaning of a bible based church and leader.<BR/><BR/>The term so lovingly applied to the south,"Bible Belt" is no longer applicable.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com