tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post5827771124488257280..comments2024-03-07T00:24:23.674-05:00Comments on FBC Jax Watchdogs: "Catholic Cult Series" - Please Don't Do it JimFBC Jax Watchdoghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-27231909549428190312008-11-26T06:02:00.000-05:002008-11-26T06:02:00.000-05:00Is Jim a Batholic?Is Jim a <A HREF="http://baptistplanet.wordpress.com/2008/11/16/batholics-and-cathists-rise-again/" REL="nofollow">Batholic</A>?George Frinkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03777560751557908655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-52230553203407796442008-11-24T23:21:00.000-05:002008-11-24T23:21:00.000-05:00Anon 10:22pm: I fully agree with your comments, ex...Anon 10:22pm: I fully agree with your comments, except for a minor fact. Dr. Sheri Klouda is a Hebrew Professor. She could possibly be a Greek scholar, though I could not verify this.<BR/><BR/>WD, as I was reading about TDM and comments on this post and about Smyrl's post on Catholicism as a cult, it occurred to me what is missing at fbcjax are two fundamental things.<BR/><BR/> - LOVE : If you follow all the aspects of TDM without LOVE, it's all a WASTE. My reading of fbcjax from this blog is this is what is happening.<BR/><BR/> - Man Worship : Cults are formed when groups/churches idolize men/women, when they should be bereans by checking everything that is said with The Word of God. To me, this explains the behavior as in Darrell Gilyard and other pastors doing sexual abuse or financial abuse. Excellent example of financial abuse is Spending God's Money by Mary Kinney Branson. This worship of Pastors/Men of God/Men of Authority is balanced when there is transparency with checks and balances. When they do not take place, abuse usually happens. I also submit, when this transparency is lacking, it also heads to become a cult. Cults typically are dealing with mind control, thought control. All of this advanced by the leadership. At the same time, they are hiding their operational details from the members. I do not know how much of this is happening at fbcjax. But just from reading some of the comments, it indicates something is not right here.Rameshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09728392311602332613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-90276904640942887562008-11-24T22:47:00.000-05:002008-11-24T22:47:00.000-05:00Well, there are many different definitions of cult...Well, there are many different definitions of cults, and Jim of course is examining the theological definition of a cult - and he uses the Danny Akin "grid". <BR/><BR/>But what Jim won't tell you is that a church can have mostly a correct theology but STILL EXHIBIT CULTISH BEHAVIORS. Example: Shiloh and Trinity. While they had correct theology for the most part, they allowed themselves to be controlled by a "cult leader". Their leader was a wolf in sheep's clothing. They had abusive leaders. And men in the church knew that these men were devouring the sheep. But they did nothing. There were some that tried to come forward about the abuses, and they were ridiculed and silenced. There was a pervasive, perverted culture that had developed where people who spoke ill of the pastor were castigated. Even Tom Messer himself knew of Bob Gray's abuse, but he knew that either he would be fired or disciplined for exposing the abuses..because he knew the people in a sense worshipped Bob Gray. Same with Gilyard - men were told about Gilyard's past abuses, and these men did nothing to protect women. <BR/><BR/>In this regard, the Catholics have had many problems of predator priests. Everyone knows that.<BR/><BR/>So the more relevant, pragmatic question in regard to cults is: does FBC Jax exhibit the same cultish behaviors that we saw at Trinity and Shiloh that would make US a church that could be abused by a wolf in sheep's clothing pastor?FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-56503918254272384752008-11-24T22:22:00.000-05:002008-11-24T22:22:00.000-05:00WD: I wonder how many pastors will not come to the...WD: I wonder how many pastors will not come to the 2009 PC because of these comments about Catholics. I wonder how many Catholics in the area will never watch FBC after they hear of these comments.<BR/><BR/>I wonder how many Catholics we could have ministered to without these comments. I wonder how many Catholics could have ministered to us. I have been ministered to by Catholics when my own church choose to ignore me. Wonder how many former Catholics that are now members of FBC have sent e-mails or letters to Team Brunson stating their displeasures with this attitude. Its a good thing Angel Martinez (former Catholic) never heard this as he may have never accepted salvation from a little Baptist mission in San Antonio Texas back in 1935 when he was a little shoe shine boy of 13. Then all of us who knew him to be one of God's greatest evangelist would never have heard or seen him.<BR/><BR/>It's really a shame that we don't have two women pastors in FBC as they according to Mac would be more beneficial and God knows they would be more spiritual. Comments Mac made about women being more sensitive to the Holy Spirit than men, in an SBC interview, PC.2007. I do not believe they would have caused as much harm. Thinking on this further, I believe we ought to call Mrs. Klouda to hold a revival here, as it could turn things around for the betterment of the whole congregation. Probably won't happen but still is a good suggestion. Maybe Mac could humble himself and repent. I know one thing, you sure wouldn't get much HISTORY!!! Just kidding here, as I do not believe in women preachers. But, Mrs Klouda would be an excellent speaker for the women as she has much to say and in my opinion has handled herself far better than the men she has had to deal with.<BR/><BR/>And you know Mac and Jim might just learn something about Greek as she was a Greek scholar and actually holds a PHd in Greek not Philosophy or History.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-66822407830724295812008-11-24T17:47:00.000-05:002008-11-24T17:47:00.000-05:00Gabriella422001You nailed it. Very astute and tru...Gabriella422001<BR/><BR/>You nailed it. Very astute and true.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-88652980570340439982008-11-24T14:18:00.000-05:002008-11-24T14:18:00.000-05:00when you start pointing out the sins of other chur...when you start pointing out the sins of other churches, its just too easy for people to start to point out the abuses and SINS in the southern baptist church.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10506926841698204953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-78745535765486169982008-11-24T12:10:00.000-05:002008-11-24T12:10:00.000-05:00Anon 9:34 AM. You ask "where was Jimbo when Gilyar...Anon 9:34 AM. You ask "where was Jimbo when Gilyard was abusing women"? The same place he is now. Hiding behind the SBC powers. If you will remember Vines, Patterson and Falwell went out to Texas to "counsel" with Gilyard in the early 90's, about his "problem". Most everyone in churches new about this, as it was all over the news media at that time. Did a lot of good didn't it. You don't give preachers a pass on stuff like this, (or anyone) but Gilyard got one thanks to Patterson and Vines. Vines even preached in Gilyards church twice here in Jax, in the recent past. Thus giving Gilyard credibility and enabling him to continue his sick behavior. Doesn't look so good for the SBC does it. But we must revere Vines. These guys will preach (?) anywhere that will pay them. So much for "higher standards". Or is that "brand building".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-11307606425193815112008-11-24T09:34:00.000-05:002008-11-24T09:34:00.000-05:00Readers: I stumbled on this article at Christa Br...Readers: I stumbled on this article at Christa Brown's site earlier this year discussing "cult" versus "abuse"...and I think its very appropriate for this time as we begin reading Smyrl the Pearl's "wisdom" on the Catholic church.<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://stopbaptistpredators.blogspot.com/2008/01/cult-or-church-its-still-abuse.html" REL="nofollow">"Cult" or "Church" - Its Still Abuse</A><BR/><BR/>Interesting that Smyrl wants to use our church's good name to "prove" with Danny Akin's "grid" (I'm sure Danny Akin is thrilled that Smyrl is using his name on the anti-catholic messages of Smyrl!) that the Catholic are a cult...but where was Jumbo Jim when Gilyard was abusing women? Where was the outcry Jim? Didn't you have a "grid" to show what damage a monster like Gilyard does to the name of Christianity? Can't you call out Gilyard and the men who WERE WARNED by a local pastor but still turned a blind eye and allowed the man to devour his sheep?FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-89885266585650154812008-11-24T09:28:00.000-05:002008-11-24T09:28:00.000-05:00Dr. Akin and and all those paid clergy that follow...Dr. Akin and and all those paid clergy that follow his leadership and think this TDM is a great idea makes ME very sad. He lists all these "important" criteria, but none of them are MY criteria? Remember what I did and what I said? Look after orphans and widows, feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit those in prison, love your neighbor as I have loved you, love God with all your heart and soul and might. Why are none of these things being emphasized by those that call them themselves by my name? Instead we hear of church discipline, attendance records, and other things that do not meet the needs of those I love.<BR/><BR/>And my children, the only reason Jim Smyrl is now focusing on the Catholics, is because he is NOT after my own heart. He is about building numbers and "sheep stealing" and the Catholic demographic is a huge one. Like NW St. Johns county, instead of focusing on those right outside their church buildings, they target Catholics in general and the rich in St. Johns County. Those I would have them minister to are literally within walking distance of the campus I put downtown so many years ago. But I am slow to anger. I intercede for MY church that they will come to their senses. Remember the story I told about the prodigal son? FBC Jax is the son. I stand looking and waiting for them to come to their senses. Is there not eve ONE man among you who can stop the abuses being done in my name?<BR/><BR/>Behold, I come quickly. I love you!<BR/><BR/>Your friend, saviour and Lord,<BR/>JesusAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-58477854842140707602008-11-24T09:24:00.000-05:002008-11-24T09:24:00.000-05:00WD, to be fair to Jim Smyrl, the points he makes a...WD, to be fair to Jim Smyrl, the points he makes at the bottom of his post are correct. The question you have raised is "Is it good for this to be on fbcjax official blog site?". My conclusions are that this has been blessed and approved by Pastor Mac, SBC and TDM.<BR/><BR/>I do not know how comfortable Catholics will feel about Jim Smyrl wishing to harvest catholics to Christ. I am wondering, if he tried this on Jews would they be comfortable?<BR/><BR/>I am certain, he will come under lot of publicity because of this. Maybe this is his goal, even while questioning catholicism and their practices.<BR/><BR/>If only he can question fbcjax practices.Rameshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09728392311602332613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-26714609326156312852008-11-24T08:55:00.000-05:002008-11-24T08:55:00.000-05:00Smyrl's first article on the Catholics is there.Bo...Smyrl's first article on the Catholics is there.<BR/><BR/>Boy, we are in big trouble. This is a SBC seminary trained man. <BR/><BR/>He makes the following case about why he must write these articles:<BR/><BR/><I>"And how will you ever lead a Catholic out of his sin and into the only sufficient grace of Christ if you do not clearly point out his sin? Surely we do not believe that we can lead anyone to Christ by generalizing or minimizing his sin."</I><BR/><BR/>And Jim says we must "clearly point out his sin" in order to lead a Catholic "out of his sin"...first of all I don't think we are called to point out people's sin in order for them to accept Christ (this is a seminary man....supposedly has a PhD, but I'm not sure about that...can anyone do a background check on this guy?)...and secondly in the context of his article it seems that he is making the case that being a Catholic by definition is a "sin".<BR/><BR/>This guy is an amateur! Jim, you've lost your way dude. <BR/><BR/>"hey you...YOU CATHOLIC...let me tell about my Jesus...first, let me clearly point out your sin of being a Catholic". That's ridiculous. We are called to share the gospel, not point out flaws in theology. But this is where Theology Driven Ministry is leading us church. Less Jesus, and more finger pointing.<BR/><BR/>Those of you considering enrolling your kids at FB Academy? Hmmm...think twice. Might want to ask the Schoolmaster if they are going to teach intolerance to other views of Christianity. Is FB Academy going to teach the little minds of mush that the Catholics are a "cult"? <BR/><BR/>Of course we don't need to point out people's sins when witnessing. The Holy Spirit does that. So Jim Smyrl has been completely converted to the Mac Brunson way of ministry. Replace the Holy Spirit with forceful, angry rhetoric. You convince people of their sin, not the Holy Spirit.<BR/><BR/>People, this is why I have been blogging for over a year. When you have a guy like Brunson at the helm, who really is more interested in his brand and his family's wealth and making a name for himself than he is the church AND THE PEOPLE WE ARE TRYING TO REACH IN JACKSONVILLE, you are going to get garbage like this on our website harming our ministry. Homer or Vines would not have allowed this nonsense on our website to harm our testimony in this city.<BR/><BR/>Our pastor, our deacons, our trustees are all asleep at the wheel, while Mac and Honey are driving us off a cliff. Only problem is Mac and Honey and Trey all have a golden parachute that they will use to escape when the bus finally goes over...and they'll land softly in another new ministry somewhere while we're sorting through the rubble.<BR/><BR/>So go for it Jim! Keep up the good work! Please educate us in your series on how we can point out the sin of Catholicism.FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-79904846665300856092008-11-24T01:01:00.000-05:002008-11-24T01:01:00.000-05:00Saw this, thought it was interesting.http://www.po...Saw this, thought it was interesting.<BR/><BR/>http://www.power2serve.net/Narcissism%20Checklist.htmAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-48802132680098755042008-11-23T23:10:00.000-05:002008-11-23T23:10:00.000-05:00Philippians 2:4 "Look not every man on his own thi...Philippians 2:4 "Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on things of others". Jesus said "be ye kind one to another". It appears that we have arrived at that point of devouring one another. How sad especially during this time when so many are headed for HELL!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-5982548179154186902008-11-23T23:09:00.000-05:002008-11-23T23:09:00.000-05:00God love ya Robert.Who cares at this point?The poi...God love ya Robert.<BR/><BR/>Who cares at this point?<BR/><BR/>The point is:<BR/><BR/>We are trying to reach all peoples, and for Smyrl to call Catholics a cult, and to call priests "Cult Leaders" as he did in his previous blog post does no good.<BR/><BR/>I supported Vines in his statement as he didn't say it for public consumption, but once it hit the airwaves he defended himself. He didn't make that statement on our church website, and he didn't do it to draw attention to himself.<BR/><BR/>But there were some Christians who spend their entire lives witnessing to Muslims, and those comments made by Vines were counter productive to their efforts, however true they were.<BR/><BR/>So for God sakes Robert, if you can't see that Smyrl should NOT be putting that on our website, regardless of what you think about the Catholics, I feel sorry for you because what little discernmnet you had is now gone.FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-74152596958745366882008-11-23T23:05:00.000-05:002008-11-23T23:05:00.000-05:00Mr Dog.I am a believer from a different country an...Mr Dog.<BR/><BR/>I am a believer from a different country and i have started to come in FBC Jax for about 14 months. I come from a Muslim background and a new born believers since 12 years now. I have never ever seen a behavior like this from a person called a christian that acts worse than a nonbeliever. To see the attack of a christian from another christian like a dog is horrible. <BR/>I see that you are not interested in facts about what you have started regarding Catholics because that is not the case for you. You can find as many reasons you like to start shooting somebody, if not the Catholics will bee the shoes the color of the shirt etc.<BR/>About the Catholics being a cult is very clear you are a ignorant in the knowledge of the truth the Bible but also analyzing simple history of Martin Luther and his revolution. If the Catholics and the biblical Christians are the same than man if you are not happy you have other friendly open doors.<BR/>I have seen people that have made a commitment that they will never smile in their life and to be non satisfied with every thing. You are the same. You have made this commitment hopefully not with Satan to negatively speak about some one in every thing that man is doing. What a testimony you are with your behavior. Man the rots of bitterness are so deep on your heart and have occupied you completely. This is disgusting.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-11157971768296712682008-11-23T23:02:00.000-05:002008-11-23T23:02:00.000-05:00I know Watchdog does not want Dr. Vines to be brou...I know Watchdog does not want Dr. Vines to be brought into this but I'm going to try anyways. So if this post makes it through, then I guess I'm lucky.<BR/><BR/>Anon 10:36pm said this:<BR/><I>Our website is not a place for someone, whether paid staff or laymen to present their positions.</I><BR/><BR/>I don't think Rev. Smyrl is necessarily stating his position. I think he is saying what the Catholic religion is based upon scripture, not what he thinks about them. If he's stating his position on a website and you think that is wrong, then how do you feel about Dr. Vines comments stating his position on Islam in front of a few thousand people and then millions of viewers through TV as his comments made national news?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-61956892519575477512008-11-23T22:59:00.000-05:002008-11-23T22:59:00.000-05:00Are we to expect Smyrl to give us an accurate acco...Are we to expect Smyrl to give us an accurate account of the Catholic Religion? Mac is going to set up his own satelite operation. That is what the Catholic Church has been doing for hundreds of years. Smyrl and Mac will preach against Catholic satelites but start his own. Go figure.<BR/><BR/>Question, behind the U.S. Government, who is the largest land owner in the United States? You guessed it, the Catholic Church.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-34798849707008467702008-11-23T22:48:00.000-05:002008-11-23T22:48:00.000-05:00Ludie.. where your comments edifying? This is a gr...Ludie.. where your comments edifying? This is a great blog to get the information that should be coming from the pulpit.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-57117006177682237082008-11-23T22:45:00.000-05:002008-11-23T22:45:00.000-05:00There are ways to inform people about Catholicism ...There are ways to inform people about Catholicism and their differences with Baptists without resorting to the inflamitory label of "cult", which most scholars and leaders of counter-cult ministries would agree is not an appropriate term for Catholicism. <BR/><BR/>There are two primary hallmarks of a cult: (1) theological -- specifically in reference to errors in their doctrine of the Trinity and the full deity and co-equality of all three members of the Godhead and (2) sociological - particularly in reference to their authoritarian control over the lives of their members. <BR/><BR/>Catholicism, for all its faults, does not fit the classic definition of a cult. As Watchdog points out, Smyrl's using that term for the Catholic religion will draw unnecessary criticism to the FBC Jax. Don't y'all have enough real problems brought on my Mac that you don't need Smyrl causing more?Junksterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14422651080120306816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-53123426223046382212008-11-23T22:36:00.001-05:002008-11-23T22:36:00.001-05:00Once again people aren't getting WDs concerns and ...Once again people aren't getting WDs concerns and comments on our website. Our website is not a place for someone, whether paid staff or laymen to present their positions. Our website should be informational to provide insight to members and prospects. Obviously I believe that Catholics, like Baptist can be saved or the can be lost. <BR/><BR/>My question is where are the deacons? Where are the trustees? Our church is being robbed, destroyed before our very eyes. <BR/><BR/>WD.. any suggestions on how we can start a grass roots movement to get our church back?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-84303433464716556952008-11-23T22:36:00.000-05:002008-11-23T22:36:00.000-05:00It's hard to believe you actually think what peopl...It's hard to believe you actually think what people say can be harmful to your church. I actually find very little that's edifying on this blog since it's obsession. And if I'm not mistaken, the Bible says if it's not edifying, keep it to yourself.Ludiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04143492156782617322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-17731079374686235972008-11-23T22:30:00.000-05:002008-11-23T22:30:00.000-05:00To Anon 6:06 et al, Of course Dr. Brunson has not ...To Anon 6:06 et al, <BR/><BR/>Of course Dr. Brunson has not forgotten that quiet times are an important starter for new believers! In his message this morning, he in fact emphasized the importance of a daily devotion to help re-program the brain, for all Christians. Remember the MRI and finger strumming analogy? Notice that he doesn't just use history, he also often uses science in helpful ways in his sermons. I'm certain that he not only reads man's words but also reads the Bible more than you can possibly imagine. When he told the congregation that he could help them find something worthwhile to read, well that seemed to be an appropriate thing for a leader to say, especially when he hears that people are reading some strange things.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-77773411794367515132008-11-23T22:23:00.000-05:002008-11-23T22:23:00.000-05:00Trying to stay on topic here as the Watchdog reque...Trying to stay on topic here as the Watchdog requests....I don't think what Rev. Smyrl does is hurtful to our church. I actually think telling us more about the Catholic religion is good because it will give us a more informed and knowledgeable Biblical world view. Remember, he is our Education Pastor. So he is doing exactly what we pay him to do and what the Lord has called him to do.<BR/>And I agree with Smyrl on the Catholic issue. But, God doesn't see me less of a sinner than the Catholics. In his eyes, we're all equally imperfect despite of our religious associations. <---Important to remember.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-26266589159977816052008-11-23T22:01:00.000-05:002008-11-23T22:01:00.000-05:00Truth and ideals are what should be admired, regar...Truth and ideals are what should be admired, regardless of whether or not we know the name of the source.Junksterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14422651080120306816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-19860231509785282222008-11-23T21:58:00.000-05:002008-11-23T21:58:00.000-05:00Please no more posts telling me that the Catholics...Please no more posts telling me that the Catholics are a cult or that they are not true Christians.<BR/><BR/>That is NOT my point of this article and I don't wish it to be debated here.<BR/><BR/>Smyrl is going to take it upon himself to use our church website and our church name to strike out at the Catholic church. To spread his ideas about the Catholic church in this manner is hurtful to the mission of our church. That is the point, and I hope that he doesn't do it.FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.com