tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post5936605888563965041..comments2024-03-23T22:54:58.661-04:00Comments on FBC Jax Watchdogs: Pastor's Office Suite - $100,000 "Investment" in God's KingdomFBC Jax Watchdoghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comBlogger49125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-29365765014975216792017-04-07T14:20:33.290-04:002017-04-07T14:20:33.290-04:00Thanks to a brilliant effort in publishing your ar...Thanks to a brilliant effort in publishing your article. One can be more informative as this. There are many things I can know only after reading your wonderful article.<a href="http://www.obcoffice.com/" rel="nofollow">Jacksonville office furniture</a>James E Lutzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15737115218751255501noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-85857236194926632312008-05-21T10:48:00.000-04:002008-05-21T10:48:00.000-04:00Watchdog - Your list of "SBC Big Mac Defenders" wi...Watchdog - Your list of "SBC Big Mac Defenders" will continue to grow because I am fairly certain that he has shot up the signal flares to Nashville to "circle the wagons" on his behalf. I think you will most certainly compile an exhaustive and impressive list of SBC "who's who" that will verbally render their support for Mac while chastising anyone who has anything less than a positive opinion about him. Keep your list updated and at the end of the year it should be an impressive collection indeed!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-87103084173305389242008-05-15T12:45:00.000-04:002008-05-15T12:45:00.000-04:00I remember years ago churches were pastured by gre...I remember years ago churches were pastured by great men of faith who gave a lot to preach the Word of God. They lived modestly and honestly and not one would have ever accepted the gaudy lifestyle of some of today’s ministers. My pastor had an office with used furniture and barely enough room to set 3 people. That was OK with him because preaching the Word and winning people to Christ was more important than materialism. Church budgets were open and the pastor accountable for his spending and actions. It used to be being a pastor was a calling and not a career choice. Our prayers are desperately needed in this situation if First Baptist is to continue to be the beacon it is for Jacksonville.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-64455933311168436852008-05-14T21:44:00.000-04:002008-05-14T21:44:00.000-04:00The list of men who have felt compelled to publicl...The list of men who have felt compelled to publicly defend Brunson grew by one tonight:<BR/><BR/>1. Jerry Vines at 2007 Pastor Conference "..I throw anonymous emails in the trash" (after spitting on them), and "..you don't pay me enough to be your pastor, brother".<BR/><BR/>2. Paige Patterson Feb 2007: "Mac never got a honeymoon"<BR/><BR/>3. Dennis Swanberg March 2007. "Mac's tiiiired. You know wha he's tiiired? He's busy plantin' 'shade trees'. He's a 'shade tree' planter" (only they were being planted on his 1/2 acre $300k lot<BR/><BR/>4. Jim Smyrl tonight: "I've watched my pastor fall under the scrutiny of men. I've watched my pastor be attacked by Satan." (yep, men who take large gifts from donors of their 501(c)3 will most certainly fall under the scrutinty of men)<BR/><BR/>Who's next? Did I miss anyone?FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-16764740285907213152008-05-14T19:41:00.000-04:002008-05-14T19:41:00.000-04:00anon May 14 - 12:12 a.m. - still, you are missing ...anon May 14 - 12:12 a.m. - still, you are missing the point of this blog. It is not to have a large readership. Why do some commenters always think it is about being popular. Maybe they are revealing some insecurity about themselves?<BR/><BR/>Anyway, until the leadership agrees to respond to anonymous emails OR until they become more transparent in financial matters, this blog will remain. We can't force them to be open and transparent with the $14 million dollar budget. And they can't force us to stop talking about their refusal to do so. So we blog. Or should I just say the WD blogs. (He writes all the posts anonymously too according to some readers here.)<BR/><BR/>It is true the blog seems to have no impact since the pastor continues to collect millions from the congregation and continues to refuse to be open with finances. So keep on supporting him, he really needs it. NOT.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-19706506756123076022008-05-14T19:30:00.000-04:002008-05-14T19:30:00.000-04:00It is good to see that Mac finally used his positi...It is good to see that Mac finally used his position to obtain something for someone else. <BR/><BR/>Congratulations on getting Mr. Gay to give to Dan Jones church. That is something he has done right with his influence and leadership. Maybe he is learning. <BR/><BR/>I will keep praying for him. Who knows, he might even have J.D. Collins donate $307K to the church, or to the FBC Academy, instead of giving it to Mac personally. <BR/><BR/>I also liked the video. Showing people serving others and encouraging others to join them. So much better use of a video than running a commercial for Collins Builders. <BR/><BR/>Maybe there is HOPE after all!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-15098344111318088202008-05-14T19:25:00.000-04:002008-05-14T19:25:00.000-04:00Speaking of Two Rivers...our church leadership has...Speaking of Two Rivers...our church leadership has followed this situation carefully and, I hope and assume, they have tried to learn from it. What do their actions show they have learned? To be more open and transparent with finances to avoid such a situation here? OR...have they amended by-laws and put everything in place to make financials even more secretive and make obtaining any such information even more difficult to obtain by those that give the money, and they learned to allow only trusted yes men in leadership. <BR/><BR/>Over and over again, Team B has stood at the crossroads and had a choice to make about being more open and transparent to the donors. Yet every time, chose to be more secretive and less open. <BR/><BR/>I can't say I expect anything else. I mean, if someone will give you millions upon millions to spend as you please, why would you ever voluntarily give an account to them or anyone else? They won't. Unless the people stop giving. Then, and only then, will they suddenly be "led by God" to do all kinds of innovative things to compete for your generous donations and gifts.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-78888930845930639932008-05-14T12:39:00.000-04:002008-05-14T12:39:00.000-04:00Attn: May l4,12:12 A.M.Leave Watchdog alone. I for...Attn: May l4,12:12 A.M.<BR/>Leave Watchdog alone. I for one count on him to "keep the faith". If things weren't so messed up at FBC, then W/D wouldn't be here. We never had the need for a blog until NOW! Thanks W/D for all you do!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-77845258575777213702008-05-14T12:10:00.000-04:002008-05-14T12:10:00.000-04:00Many churches and preachers are touting change. OK...Many churches and preachers are touting change. OK!! Lets have change. Face it. Churches are not what they use to be!!!Neither are the preachers!!!!STOP paying for and attending these business type organizations. Get off the guilt trip you've been put on that tell you how much of a heathen you are if you don't go to a building and give them YOUR MONEY. Get over it. You CAN worship apart from an organized environment. If you are a child of God you are saved no matter WHERE you are. <BR/><BR/>They've got you fooled and under control, telling you how you must be in church giving them your money.<BR/><BR/>The early churches were in HOMES. What's wrong with homes now? If you feel you must be in a group setting, so that you "don't forsake the assembling of yourselves together" (Heb 10:25), then get a group of believers together you can worship with. Just don't get a cult started. Study the Bible, pray together and support each other just like you do in Sunday School classes. Witness to the lost as you go about daily life, just like you do now. We will eventually go back to this type of setting for worship. Churches arn't reaching people today they just want you to think they are, so you will attend and give. Jesus lives in you not in a building, or an organization with a CEO (millionaire off your money) at the HELM.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-80730928911760502252008-05-14T00:12:00.000-04:002008-05-14T00:12:00.000-04:00Watchpuppy - looks like things are slowing down a ...Watchpuppy - looks like things are slowing down a bit here on your blog. Need to come up with some juicy gossip and slander else you'll be losing all your readers.<BR/><BR/>I hope this reduced activity means you are getting some work, maybe spending time in the Word, maybe attending to your family's needs and not staring at a blog screen 24/7.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-67651286406694792782008-05-13T20:52:00.000-04:002008-05-13T20:52:00.000-04:00I too will be interested in Two Rivers. My Aunt a...I too will be interested in Two Rivers. My Aunt and Uncle were members there from the time the church first opened and left about 6 years ago. They are very distraught over the happenings there, even though they no longer attend that church.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-53657291232616795672008-05-13T18:17:00.000-04:002008-05-13T18:17:00.000-04:00This was printed on the "Monday Morning Insight.co...This was printed on the "Monday Morning Insight.com...<BR/><BR/>Bloggers Take Aim at Another Prominent SBC Church<BR/><BR/>The integrity of another prominent Southern Baptist pastor has been called into question by members of his megachurch -- this one in the shadow of the Southern Baptist Convention's headquarters. Local and national news agencies have reported a raging controversy over Jerry Sutton’s leadership of Two Rivers Baptist Church in Nashville, Tenn. Like many recent tiffs in large Southern Baptist churches, the conflict features allegations of improper financial decisions, accusations of an unaccountable and autocratic pastor, and a website where aggrieved members publicize the controversy. <BR/>Sutton is pastor to many of the SBC’s most powerful leaders and employees. The denomination’s headquarters office, publishing arm, news outlet and related agencies are located in Nashville. <BR/><BR/>But other high-profile churches have been roiled recently by controversy over pastoral leadership. <BR/><BR/>Accusations of autocratic decision-making against pastors who followed long-tenured leaders hit two massive churches in suburban Memphis. Disputes within Bellevue Baptist Church in Cordova, Tenn., and Germantown Baptist Church in Germantown, Tenn., led to dissident factions starting websites to broadcast their disagreements and ultimately led Germantown pastor Sam Shaw to resign. <BR/><BR/>At First Baptist Church of Daytona Beach, Fla., where former SBC president Bobby Welch was the longtime pastor, his successor, David Cox, resigned abruptly in January after months of disputes with a faction in the congregation. And First Baptist Church of Raytown, Mo., near Kansas City, underwent a highly publicized dispute and lawsuit after a former church member accused the son of longtime pastor Paul Brooks of sexually assaulting and impregnating her while the son, Mark, was on the church’s staff. <BR/><BR/>Sutton, a former SBC first vice president, finished third in a highly contentious 2006 SBC presidential election, despite the endorsement of major leaders of the SBC’s conservative establishment. <BR/><BR/>Unlike other recent church fights involving prominent megachurch pastors, the Two Rivers conflict includes a dispute over a hastily called business meeting in which a majority of those present kicked out the church member who has been leading the charge against Sutton—despite the fact that he was one of the congregation’s three legal trustees. <BR/><BR/>The Associated Press first reported Aug. 14 that the congregation was in upheaval over allegations publicized by Frank Harris, the trustee, who is a longtime member. Among his contentions were that Sutton inappropriately spent more than $4,000 of church funds on a wedding reception for his daughter, improperly met with representatives of a resort hotel who wanted to buy some of the church’s property, and was autocratic and attempted to keep church members in the dark about his finances. <BR/><BR/>Two Rivers “appears to have been manipulated from a people-led church to a staff-run church,” the AP quoted Harris as saying. “Anyone who voiced opposition to leadership was alienated and lost any ministries they may have had in the church.” <BR/><BR/>The congregation’s deacons and personnel committee met July 15 to discuss the charges, including accusations by a former church secretary that Sutton looked at pornography on his office computer and had an affair with a church staff member. The charges again were discussed July 28 in a churchwide question-and-answer sessions. <BR/><BR/>In a statement posted on the Two Rivers website Aug. 15, church officials attempted to refute the arguments. “After full review and discussion, it was unanimously determined by both the deacons and the human resource ministry team that the senior pastor had not committed any wrongdoing as claimed, and that there was no basis whatsoever to bring charges against, discipline or be concerned about the conduct of the senior pastor,” the statement said. <BR/><BR/>It said that the money for the reception had been approved by the church’s budget committee because the event was open to all church members. It also noted the church is audited by an external firm once a year and that “no financial improprieties have been found at any time during” Sutton’s 21-year tenure at Two Rivers. <BR/><BR/>The statement also said Sutton’s dealings with the hotel owners had been proper and that a disputed church-paid trip he took to Italy and Israel was a legitimate mission endeavor and “not a vacation.” It added the sexual allegations had been investigated and dismissed in 2002, when they were first made. Church leaders again dismissed them in the July 15 meeting, it said. <BR/><BR/>More here: SOURCE: ABPNews.comAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-30081417889796668852008-05-13T18:07:00.000-04:002008-05-13T18:07:00.000-04:00WD...the attorney representing the members at odds...WD...the attorney representing the members at odds with the Two Rivers pastor, financial records, etc is Mark Freemen.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-61193970403426448662008-05-13T11:30:00.000-04:002008-05-13T11:30:00.000-04:00Enjoy "Big Mac!" He's not going anywhere anytime ...Enjoy "Big Mac!" He's not going anywhere anytime soon until the Big Kahoonas in the SBC want him, or have to place him, elsewhere!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-65088112701396491652008-05-13T10:14:00.000-04:002008-05-13T10:14:00.000-04:00Dear Watchdog:Looking forward to your post concern...Dear Watchdog:<BR/><BR/>Looking forward to your post concerning Two Rivers as I am not familiar with everything that transpired there and am interested in learning more. Blessings. . .Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-16823272100819459552008-05-12T23:08:00.000-04:002008-05-12T23:08:00.000-04:00Well, the question that must be asked then, is why...Well, the question that must be asked then, is why did you claim to know that I hit your site multiple times daily? And that I lack self control? And that I was not in Florida?<BR/><BR/>I don't doubt that you paid for the ip address counter, but it WILL NOT WORK on any user who requests that their IP address be kept anonymous. Your claim that you knew what mine was and where I am was sheer incompetence.<BR/><BR/>And although it's unlikely that anyone other than my ISP knows where I visit, as a Christian I know that I will be held accountable for every one of my activities by an authority much greater than you. <BR/><BR/>Now about that house. Suppose that you were given a $1,000,000 estate just to shut you up. Would it work?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-43843976520361953392008-05-12T22:35:00.000-04:002008-05-12T22:35:00.000-04:00One caveat Anon: if you are hitting websites like ...One caveat Anon: if you are hitting websites like mine, likely your ISP is being recorded using tracking software. But there are so many hits on this website that its hard to differentiate who is hitting it when, so I certainly can't match any posts here with any ISPs that are recorded by my site tracker. So you can relax.FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-50875334968497883972008-05-12T22:33:00.000-04:002008-05-12T22:33:00.000-04:00You are paranoid.I don't have your ISP.If I did I ...You are paranoid.<BR/><BR/>I don't have your ISP.<BR/><BR/>If I did I certainly wouldn't post it.<BR/><BR/>As far as a nice house - I'm trying to land a job as a mega pastor, then I can get a REALLY nice house.<BR/><BR/>Lighten up hoss.FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-7097766413598458232008-05-12T22:14:00.000-04:002008-05-12T22:14:00.000-04:00WD:You have questions for me? Really?Here's some q...<I>WD:<BR/>You have questions for me? Really?<BR/><BR/>Here's some questions for you:<BR/><BR/>If these articles bother you, why do you come here to read them?<BR/><BR/>If this is "murmouring under the tent" and you think that's bad, why do you hit this site multiple times per day? You believing this site to be "murmouring", yet you come here to read it, you show very little self control. Stay away. Don't read this.</I><BR/><BR/>wDog,<BR/><BR/>Hmmmm....<BR/>You seem to presume quite a bit. I don't hit your site more than twice a week. And that's only because I'm quite fascinated by your habit of posting under 'anonymous' to give yourself the appearance of numbers. I'm a social worker, and it's part of my job to diagnose delusional patients. Perhaps you should stop by my office some time.<BR/><BR/>If you're able to obtain my IP address, please share it with the world so that I'll be convinced and be able to get a refund from my service provider who assures me that they will not reveal that information to anyone. <BR/><BR/>Forgive me if I'm wrong, but you seem to want to give the appearance of being in control. Provide me with a simple IP address (i.e. 123.123.123.123) and I might take you more seriously. <BR/><BR/>Otherwise you're still a joke in my book, and a jealous one at that. Spend less time blogging and more time at work, and maybe you can afford a nice house too.<BR/><BR/>Now, about that IP address?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-71589431506853166102008-05-12T19:15:00.000-04:002008-05-12T19:15:00.000-04:00anon May 12 - 2:46 - to answer your question, yes,...anon May 12 - 2:46 - to answer your question, yes, I do now doubt God's calling on Mac Brunson. I stood and voted for the man, trusting and believing the search committee had followed the Lord's leading. I later found out that did not happen. This preacher was hand picked by Patterson and Vines, was enticed to come here after saying no for over a year, and ultimately, he and/or his wife negotiated a salary and relocation package that put his wife and son on staff, land gift, etc, etc.<BR/><BR/>Must I blindly stay loyal to a vote I gave out of naivete and faith when that trust has now been betrayed? If he has nothing to be ashamed of, he will come clean on the land gift and relocation negotiations and put this all behind him. Until then, he will deal with us. Whether we are voted out or not does not concern me. Many of us have already left anyway. And once efforts to remove ANY members is begun, legal action against the church, trustees, search committee and finance committee will be commenced. Not sure anyone wants to see that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-559988067297163772008-05-12T19:13:00.000-04:002008-05-12T19:13:00.000-04:00I think the situation at Two Rivers is worthy of s...I think the situation at Two Rivers is worthy of serious-minded people at FBC Jax taking a look at. There are plenty of differences, but there are enough similarities that it might give some members of our church concern. Particularly some of the actions of the pastor at Two-Rivers that caused people to be upset in the first place.<BR/><BR/>I think I'll post a main article here on Two-Rivers very soon.FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-26293692108218893732008-05-12T19:10:00.000-04:002008-05-12T19:10:00.000-04:00anon May 12 6:08 p.m. - I also recommend everyone ...anon May 12 6:08 p.m. - I also recommend everyone that reads this blog also read about what happened at Two Rivers. The abuses by the pastor, and the sham second vote to remove long time faithful members who had questions, should scare any of the fence sitters at FBC Jax. We are about to head down that same path... At least when we do, there will be more openness of church financials, which is all most of us bloggers here have asked for anyway. If Team Brunson can stand the scrutiny, I suggest they also try to remove some members with a public vote/meeting.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-11581087703345391772008-05-12T18:08:00.000-04:002008-05-12T18:08:00.000-04:00Hey Watch pup. Do a search on "Two Rivers Baptist"...Hey Watch pup. Do a search on "Two Rivers Baptist" to see what is going on in that church. They had some grumblers like you and your clan, people out to do the pastor in, and finally the church did the right thing and voted them out.<BR/><BR/>I hope I'm in church the day they vote you and your band of merry bloggers out of our church.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-15151093512842731922008-05-12T14:46:00.000-04:002008-05-12T14:46:00.000-04:00Having been through one of the more disastrous "pa...Having been through one of the more disastrous "passing of the mega-church pastoral mantle" (Criswell to Gregory at FBCD) I can say with some degree of certainty that FBCJ must remember one thing. YOU CALLED YOUR PASTOR WITH AN OVERWHELMING, IF NOT NEAR UNANIMOUS, CALLING, DIDN'T YOU? At some point you considered him God's choice for your church. Now that things are not going the way you had hoped do you doubt God's hand in leading Dr. Brunson to you, because apparently at one point you did not. I leave you with an old saying my grandfather used often. "What's down in the well comes up in the bucket." I think you are seeing things for how they are and how they will be with the man you chose. God is sovereign and His will shall be accomplished in your midst, but it may get messy. I'm praying for you Watchdog and everyone involved.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-53860248101258358592008-05-12T14:21:00.000-04:002008-05-12T14:21:00.000-04:00WD - a careful study of Diotrephes will reveal tha...WD - a careful study of Diotrephes will reveal that Mac may be more of the Diotrephes character than you. Diotrephes was a pastor or elder of the church (like Brunson), who said false things about people in the church ("hotbed of legalism", "no honeymoon period in Jax", "worshipping the past", "worshipping previous pastors"), to further his own personal agenda (putting family on staff, spending money on lavish pastor suites and accepting large gifts from rich church members and then crying foul when called on it), and was willing to separate some from the fellowship ("church discipline", and saying things like people "have lists" and are "legalists" and we should either "go to where previous ministers are or grow up").<BR/><BR/>So whoever the wise guy is calling Watchdog Diotrophes, the reason that name isn't thrown around about Watchdog is because it is more befitting of a pastor engaged in bullying, saying falsehoods about the brethren, and seeking to separate people from the fellowship.<BR/><BR/>End of lesson. And this comes from Presbyterian Sunday School material.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com