tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post6746993915657909775..comments2024-03-23T22:54:58.661-04:00Comments on FBC Jax Watchdogs: "High Capacity People"...A Church "Generosity Consultant" Explains How to Go After ThemFBC Jax Watchdoghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comBlogger108125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-87772553043044186742016-11-12T16:51:30.717-05:002016-11-12T16:51:30.717-05:00I think your analysis is wrong. You are injecting...I think your analysis is wrong. You are injecting your own bias into his comments. For example, he makes it abundantly clear that he is NOT talk about just the wealthy. It is you who is making this about wealth. High capacity people are not always wealthy.<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07292544194291996102noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-76378515065448143322016-11-12T16:50:58.363-05:002016-11-12T16:50:58.363-05:00I think your analysis is wrong. You are injecting...I think your analysis is wrong. You are injecting your own bias into his comments. For example, he makes it abundantly clear that he is NOT talk about just the wealthy. It is you who is making this about wealth. High capacity people are not always wealthy.<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07292544194291996102noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-34063762658543515492016-10-27T18:42:58.622-04:002016-10-27T18:42:58.622-04:00Stop it.. please!Stop it.. please!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-1597624357446059822011-04-01T15:21:59.978-04:002011-04-01T15:21:59.978-04:00Dog --
Perhaps I was unclear. I was not talking ...Dog --<br /><br />Perhaps I was unclear. I was not talking against people like yourself who disagree with the tithe as a requirement, but those who preach that a tithe is necessary to be "good with God" so to speak. Grace and peace to you and your correspondents here.Arcenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-4287959650491197552011-04-01T13:03:15.858-04:002011-04-01T13:03:15.858-04:00J. Vernon McGee on YouTube.
Is The Tithe For Today...J. Vernon McGee on YouTube.<br />Is The Tithe For Today?<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrWItOyH3fsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-1241662422709949232011-04-01T12:51:28.404-04:002011-04-01T12:51:28.404-04:00No.
Not a pastor.
Don't believe that the tithe...No.<br />Not a pastor.<br />Don't believe that the tithe is a part of the new covenant. Free will giving is taught in the NT.<br /><br />April 1, 2011 11:36 AM<br /><br />That is why you were able to see the truth of the teaching about the tithe. It is hard for those making a living off teaching it. It would require huge faith to teach the truth when one is a pastor...Holy Spirit led giving.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-32349225225295729382011-04-01T11:36:48.993-04:002011-04-01T11:36:48.993-04:00"Anon, do you mean you were a pastor making y..."Anon, do you mean you were a pastor making your living teaching the tithe like Jon does?"<br /><br />No.<br />Not a pastor.<br />Don't believe that the tithe is a part of the new covenant. Free will giving is taught in the NT.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-50146399197323263772011-03-31T23:30:33.646-04:002011-03-31T23:30:33.646-04:00Cheezewhiz...it is coming in future posts.
First...Cheezewhiz...it is coming in future posts. <br /><br />First, tomorrow, is the April Fool's spoof post.FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-64104191273209051162011-03-31T23:24:58.934-04:002011-03-31T23:24:58.934-04:00I was hoping to hear more about the whole concept ...I was hoping to hear more about the whole concept of "generosity consultants" in the comments that followed. The entire materialistic outlook engendered by these experts, consultants, mentors and coaches that riddle the church today should be a huge concern.cheezewhizchurchhttp://cheezewhizchurch.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-86325010993390950552011-03-31T23:00:32.380-04:002011-03-31T23:00:32.380-04:00Arce - thank you for contributing to the blog and ...Arce - thank you for contributing to the blog and telling your testimony of serving the poor and down trodden through your money, and in the other ways that I know that you do. Readers, I know Arce's story and his lifestyle of service to others. What he says is true. <br /><br />I don't wish to argue the tithe, as I don't think there is anything to argue. The Bible is very clear that the tithe (meaning the 10% "tithe" that is preached today) is not binding on Christians, yet preachers abuse their congregations by threatening them with it. I'm not interested in debating it with Jon Estes or others who defend it. It is indefensible.<br /><br />In the coming weeks I will show how mega preachers are continuing to be creative in how they misuse scripture to try to convince people to tithe. We'll look at the "generosity campaigns" held at churches as a means to increase revenue using church marketing consultants.FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-1268856145838784522011-03-31T22:36:42.127-04:002011-03-31T22:36:42.127-04:00I grew up in a home that practiced the (one) tithe...I grew up in a home that practiced the (one) tithe and have practiced it most of my life. That is, I strove to give at least 10% of my gross monetary income. I even testified that God gave the Jews the concept of the tithe and the Arabs the mathematics that make it easy for modern Christians to tithe.<br /><br />(BTW, we Christians should study how some Muslim sects practice giving -- they are more generous with fellow believers that we seem to be.)<br /><br />As I have matured and worked with poor people and homeless people, some of whom have a faith in Christ that challenges me greatly, I have come to a different understanding. Our call as Christians is to manage everything we are and have, time, talents and money, for the cause of Christ.<br /><br />It is a hard standard we impose on ourselves by our commitment to the cause of Christ. Under that standard, a tithe is a guideline and may be more or less than we should give. Jesus said to give it all away.<br /><br />Our modern society calls us away from serving God to "leisure" activities, cable TV on big flat screens, food to rich for our own good health, McMansions, luxury automobiles that consume precious natural resources and pollute the earth we are to care for, travel to exotic places instead of hands on work with the poor in our own area.<br /><br />Please don't argue about the tithe. But please do not make God into some accountant who keeps notes on how much we put in the plate. IF He does that, all the highly paid mega church preachers will have a lot of 'splaining to do for what they have done with the money, time and talent He entrusted to them to steward.Arcenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-50454495690104374412011-03-31T21:01:33.360-04:002011-03-31T21:01:33.360-04:00Off Topic: An excellent post ... VTM Bottom Line [...Off Topic: An excellent post ... <a href="http://vtmbottomline.blogspot.com/2011/03/dissension.html" rel="nofollow">VTM Bottom Line [Paul Burleson] > DISSENSION</a>Rameshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09728392311602332613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-66624858941101033112011-03-31T20:29:15.464-04:002011-03-31T20:29:15.464-04:00"In other words, I once was where you are now..."In other words, I once was where you are now, but I was able to get more information through some great Bible teaching and choose the interpretation that matched most closely with scripture in context."<br /><br />Anon, do you mean you were a pastor making your living teaching the tithe like Jon does?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-74256945317128710622011-03-31T20:26:11.956-04:002011-03-31T20:26:11.956-04:00"There are great men of God who preached the ..."There are great men of God who preached the tithe."<br /><br />Jon, this is only the beginning of your wrong thinking about truth. There are NO great men of God. There are only depraved sinners saved by the same grace as any of us. <br /><br />This is man worship. They are only messengers and even then, we MUST be Bereans. This thread proves it. The resident "pastor title" gets a lot wrong and uses only strawman/ad hominem arguments.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-32695324559238468912011-03-31T18:28:00.826-04:002011-03-31T18:28:00.826-04:00"Vasquez, Rachel Sophia" , "Jeffre..."Vasquez, Rachel Sophia" , "Jeffrey Lam" , "AndreasBell" , "KeithHorbatuck" , keith.h.horbatuck@lmco.com, "JamesWalker" <br /><br /><br /><br /><br /> WishIhadknown <br /><br />The only thing that shows is your poor tax planning. If you were managing your finances correctly you would never overpay.<br /><br />Wishhadknown, That person was probably taught by one of the most liberal pastor in the SBC Brunson.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-89741958858475823542011-03-31T17:36:34.742-04:002011-03-31T17:36:34.742-04:00Watchdog,
Here's an interesting article with a...Watchdog,<br />Here's an interesting article with a different response to criticism than we've seen from many mega-pastors lately:<br /><br /><a href="http://www.biblicalrecorder.org/post/2011/03/31/7-lessons-we-can-learn-from-critics.aspx" rel="nofollow">7 lessons we can learn from critics</a> <br /><br /><i>31. March 2011 <br />by Thom S. Rainer, Baptist Press<br /><br />NASHVILLE, Tenn. <br /><br />I really don’t like to be criticized. A criticism can make my entire day gloomy. I have to wonder how someone so thin-skinned ended up in the position where I am today. <br /><br />Still, when it’s all said and done, I have to say that I have benefited in many ways from criticisms. Indeed, part of my training to be a better leader comes from dealing with critics. Let me share with you seven lessons I have learned from them. <br /><br /> </i>Junksterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14422651080120306816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-29839996077248364532011-03-31T17:25:16.160-04:002011-03-31T17:25:16.160-04:00When we pray we are enter into the closet and its ...When we pray we are enter into the closet and its only between us and God. Same is true of offerings. They shouldn't be cheapened by filling out cards, marketing groups, and especially telling someone how much one gives. Man tries to glory in his giving which makes it worth zero in the eyes of God. The widow didn't jump up and exclaim I gave it all brothers!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-29821968017702685152011-03-31T17:14:17.266-04:002011-03-31T17:14:17.266-04:00"If you need to post more, I'm OK with th..."If you need to post more, I'm OK with that but I am finished with this discussion. Nothing personal but it is going nowhere."<br /><br />I disagree. It is going somewhere. Not necessarily with you, but I am quite certain that hundreds of others are reading these comments, and many are reconsidering their traditions in light of scripture as I did.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-15630275293679193402011-03-31T17:09:55.976-04:002011-03-31T17:09:55.976-04:00"There are great men of God who preached the ..."There are great men of God who preached the tithe. I can see both sides but I hope I have not attempted to make you change your mind. That is God's job, not mine."<br /><br />God gave me a good logical mind. He expects me to use it. He tells me to not only love him with my heart but with my mind as well.<br /><br />God did change my mind (I was a believer in the tithe when I was younger and less informed).<br /><br />Why would I revert to the view I had before I was better informed?<br /><br />Think of it from an outsiders point of view. If you knew nothing of giving to God, and one side could answer all of your questions and harmonize their view with all of scripture (OT and NT) and the other couldn't - which way would you go?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-83975366993548672112011-03-31T16:53:29.950-04:002011-03-31T16:53:29.950-04:00"There are two positions on this subject and ..."There are two positions on this subject and both have been made from scripture. We disagree and neither your mind or mine is going to change at this time."<br /><br />Yes, but only one view leaves the Bible inerrant by not contradicting other scriptures, and is also able to answer other inconsistencies (like two other tithes being disregarded in the OC).<br /><br />As I stated earlier Jon, I formerly held your view and did in fact change my mind because of the compelling evidence that I was exposed to. <br /><br />Between the two of us, you are the only one that has shown an unwillingness to change in the face of inconsistencies with scripture.<br /><br />When given a choice between tradition and a correct hermeneutic, I will go with scripture every time.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-44662876404535161742011-03-31T16:37:10.018-04:002011-03-31T16:37:10.018-04:00"I disagree. I do not have to change my belie..."I disagree. I do not have to change my belief because these men believe differently than I do." <br /><br />Jon, Jon, Jon. This is a straw man argument. No one is saying that you should agree with these men because they believe differently than you do. That's not even logical.<br /><br />You should agree with these men because:<br /><br />1) They have a track record of rightly dividing the word of truth and are well-known for doing exhaustive study before coming to a conclusion. It also helps their credibility that they take a position that adversely affects their income.<br /><br />2) They can answer questions that those who support the tithe can not answer. Why are many modern day proponents of the tithe only teaching one tithe when there were three in the old covenant. And what about the contradiction of teaching a tithe when Paul teaches each one to give what they feel lead to give without compulsion. There is a reason that they have answers and you don't. It's because their view squares with scripture and yours doesn't.<br /><br />3) One sure way to know that your interpretation is incorrect is when your interpretation contradicts other scriptures in the Bible and you are not able to give an answer for those contradictions.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-35324500871357131362011-03-31T15:20:49.978-04:002011-03-31T15:20:49.978-04:00"I just got my tax return back....
$5000 is ..."I just got my tax return back....<br /><br />$5000 is coming back in my taxes!!<br /><br />I am just going to sign the Check over to my Church.<br /><br />If I had not made that vow, I bet I would have owed taxes!"<br /><br />The only thing that shows is your poor tax planning. If you were managing your finances correctly you would never overpay.WishIhadknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12487727353887788291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-70316324893304349772011-03-31T15:17:24.559-04:002011-03-31T15:17:24.559-04:00You can't argue with what God does!
I gave my...You can't argue with what God does!<br /><br />I gave my Church a $5000 vow for our Building campaign.<br /><br />I just got my tax return back....<br /><br />$5000 is coming back in my taxes!!<br /><br />I am just going to sign the Check over to my Church.<br /><br />If I had not made that vow, I bet I would have owed taxes!<br /><br />God is good!!!<br /><br />This stuff works!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-7433285900757474762011-03-31T15:07:38.967-04:002011-03-31T15:07:38.967-04:00"These teachers were able to answer seeming c..."These teachers were able to answer seeming contradictions (3 tithes in the OC, free will giving taught in the NC). <br /><br />Until you can do that, I will stick with the answer that matches most closely with scripture."<br /><br />I disagree. I do not have to change my belief because these men believe differently than I do. There are two positions on this subject and both have been made from scripture. We disagree and neither your mind or mine is going to change at this time.<br /><br />There are great men of God who preached the tithe. I can see both sides but I hope I have not attempted to make you change your mind. That is God's job, not mine.<br /><br />If you need to post more, I'm OK with that but I am finished with this discussion. Nothing personal but it is going nowhere.Jon L. Esteshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13197096460227507823noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-82012119739917628882011-03-31T14:48:44.546-04:002011-03-31T14:48:44.546-04:00"I'm tired of being consumed by aimless t..."I'm tired of being consumed by aimless tit for tat and will hang around and work hard to only reply to the subject at hand."<br /><br />Not sure how asking you to defend your position biblically after making a claim that seems to be contradicted by scripture is "aimless tit for tat."<br /><br />I was under the impression that all Christians should be able to do that. <br /><br />If you can't, then you should re-examine your position.<br /><br />That's what I did. I was once an ardent supporter of the tithe. And to be totally honest, it was because the only thing I knew about it was what my local pastor told me.<br /><br />It wasn't until I was able to listen to some really great preachers like John MacArthur and J. Vernon McGee that I understood that the model for giving in the NC is free will giving, and that the Israelites paid 3 tithes. It's not logical that we would only pay one of them today.<br /><br />In other words, I once was where you are now, but I was able to get more information through some great Bible teaching and choose the interpretation that matched most closely with scripture in context.<br /><br />These teachers were able to answer seeming contradictions (3 tithes in the OC, free will giving taught in the NC). <br /><br />Until you can do that, I will stick with the answer that matches most closely with scripture.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com