tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post6798347110131423730..comments2024-03-07T00:24:23.674-05:00Comments on FBC Jax Watchdogs: Takin' It Up With Da Book: The Truth on TithingFBC Jax Watchdoghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comBlogger70125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-75240163887626674372009-12-04T20:52:40.974-05:002009-12-04T20:52:40.974-05:00"Not a simple answer at all".
And I th..."Not a simple answer at all".<br /><br /><br />And I thought I was confused!!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-56202533335436196022009-12-04T19:02:04.197-05:002009-12-04T19:02:04.197-05:00And I too consult many translations, and have also...And I too consult many translations, and have also been using scripture4all. The concordant method has its limitations but it really does bring the Greek and Hebrew closer to those who don't know those languages. It also gives the parsing, enabling the reader to get a very good sense of the words without having to look up each one in other references.<br /><br />The Better Bibles Blog and others linked there is another great resource. I don't agree with everything said there but I always learn a lot.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-91687067654960343912009-12-04T17:47:38.925-05:002009-12-04T17:47:38.925-05:00I haven't read other articles there, but I hop...I haven't read other articles there, but I hope that they are consistent. The reason I say this is because I've seen so many in the house church movement who clearly see the error of "elder rule" yet turn around and cite it as justification for excluding half the Body-- women-- from what they know is a lowly, humble service.<br /><br />December 3, 2009 8:27 PM<br /><br />I agree, Pastor. They could take some lessons from our brothers and sisters in the underground house church in China.<br /><br />Especially when these women are jailed for preaching the Word to the lost men of China.<br /><br />This is one reason I love the TNIV. I like to see the eyes of teen girls light up when they hear with their precious ears the admonitions of our Lord apply directly to them and not just the 'brothers'. That word does not mean brothers AND sisters to this teen generation. <br /><br />MattAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-72830124966436694972009-12-04T17:42:33.648-05:002009-12-04T17:42:33.648-05:00I asked Bro Rod which Bible he uses. He was gracio...I asked Bro Rod which Bible he uses. He was gracious enough to respond.Would you be so kind as to give us your Bible of choice? Thank you!<br /><br />December 3, 2009 7:23 PM<br /><br />Well, this is kind of embarassing but I use many. It depends on where I am. I have a bible in the car, office, and most rooms of the house.<br /><br /> I read the NKJV. If I am reading to children, I use the NLT or the Good News (I know, I know). I sometimes read the ESV and I also read the TNIV. I also have my father's Bible, an RSV and my mom's which is an AV, believe it or not.<br /><br />I have the KJV but never use it. <br />Although I think it is pretty good translation barring a few problems. I own a Message bible but cannot stand it. Same with NIV.<br /><br />I like the ESV the least. It has some serious problems in my view and was way over hyped. Mark Strauss wrote a very good paper on the problems. Some of the stuff is hilarious but poses problems with understanding.<br /><br />I read the Better Bible Blog of translators and have learned quite a bit about the challenges of translating and it only confirms my view that the Holy Spirit illuminates understanding ofthe Word. <br /><br />But mostly, I use an interlinear to check many verses. Since that is free online, I would recommend everyone use it. <br /><br />Go to "scripture4all" and download the program.<br /> <br />In the end, the Holy Spirit interprets with any translation if we diligently seek.<br /><br />OK, that was NOT a simple answer at all!<br /><br />MattAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-27070171125776397182009-12-04T08:23:30.440-05:002009-12-04T08:23:30.440-05:00I think the answer will be "None of the above...I think the answer will be "None of the above". :•)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-17582406294270147592009-12-04T05:14:04.771-05:002009-12-04T05:14:04.771-05:00One good thing about getting to heaven, will be fi...One good thing about getting to heaven, will be finding out which was the correct Bible. The TRUE word of God. Then everyone using the wrong versions will finally know the truth. Then I get to say "I told you so".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-71896847026498331722009-12-03T22:09:13.360-05:002009-12-03T22:09:13.360-05:00For those who believe tithing is taught in the New...For those who believe tithing is taught in the New Testament take a good long look at Galations chapter 3. You will find the apostle Paul states in vs 10 " For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the Book of the Law to do them. In vs 11 it says "that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God". vs. 24 " Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. vvs 25 "But after that faith is come we are no longer under a schoolmaster".<br /><br />The Jews were commanded to tithe in order for the Tribe of Levi to maintain the tabernacle and offer up sacrifices to God. We are no longer under the law as these and many other verses reveal. What we are under is GRACE. <br /><br />The apostle Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles. In the Books of Matt, Mark, Luke, and John and part of the book of Acts and even James and Hebrews the scriptures were written to the Jews. It is not until Paul is converted on the Damascus Road that we find ourselves as Gentiles grafted into the True Vine. Ask yourself this question: When Philip revealed the saving power of Jesus Christ to the Ethiopian did he teach him tithing? No, but he did baptise him. How about Peter when he preached to the family and those in the house of Cornelius? The answer is NO. How about when Paul & Silas preached to the Philippian jailer? Did they bring up tithing? The answer is a resounding NO. You cannot find tithing in any of Pauls Epistles as he above anyone else who had the real message from God knew that tithing and the law had come to an end. Paul did lead them to saving faith and baptised them Acts 16 vs 33 "He and his house". Review Acts 10 vs 48 Cornelius and his house was also saved and baptised.<br /><br />I believe the church has bought into this idea of tithing because it appears good and the proper thing to do. Sadly, it is a mistake to place anyone back under bondage to the LAW. Just having one person believe that his/her belief system should embrace tithing is pitiful and wrong. They for whatever reason could mistakenly believe they are doing works and that it will bring prosperity into their lives. This is how cults get started. So many today preach tithing and the prosperity it will bring to you. If you believe in tithing then you have to do all the rest of the Old Testament including sacrificing animals, etc,etc,etc. <br /><br />God loves a cheerful giver...lets leave it there and there alone. God does not need our money. He needs our witness. Buildings that are occupied a few hours a week do not comprise the church for any or all denominations. The church is made up of all born again believers whether you meet in a yard, a barn, a school, at a wedding, a funeral, a banquent, a dinner, or anywhere else when two or three are gathered. We need to get back to basics if we are going to ever be successful in reaching any city for Jesus Christ. Tithing is just putting a yoke around someone without ever telling them the truth about tithing and where it truly belongs.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-15514132611758692682009-12-03T20:27:20.142-05:002009-12-03T20:27:20.142-05:00Matt, I'm not sure if my "thank you"...Matt, I'm not sure if my "thank you" is in moderation or just didn't post. But I want to also thank you for the link to that article. <br /><br />I haven't read other articles there, but I hope that they are consistent. The reason I say this is because I've seen so many in the house church movement who clearly see the error of "elder rule" yet turn around and cite it as justification for excluding half the Body-- women-- from what they know is a lowly, humble service.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-44000404485254485972009-12-03T19:23:28.417-05:002009-12-03T19:23:28.417-05:00Matt,
I asked Bro Rod which Bible he uses. He wa...Matt,<br /><br />I asked Bro Rod which Bible he uses. He was gracious enough to respond.Would you be so kind as to give us your Bible of choice? Thank you!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-64081333668683800532009-12-03T17:10:34.027-05:002009-12-03T17:10:34.027-05:00You're quite welcome, Matt. :•)You're quite welcome, Matt. :•)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-60381342964869652692009-12-03T16:43:26.493-05:002009-12-03T16:43:26.493-05:00"I like what Stephen Olford says about Hebrew..."I like what Stephen Olford says about Hebrews 13:17 - "<br /><br />Friend, you might like it but it is false teaching intertwined with some truth. The most dangerous kind.<br /><br />First of all, the translation is of 13:17 is horrible. Of course, the KJ translators were not about to the most common Koine Greek words because they were laboring under a King with a church/state mentality to boot. <br /><br />Think about it. Should folks have obeyed Jim Jones and drank the koolaid because they were taught he was the 'authority'? <br /><br />If not, then why? That 'why' is where the bad translation breaks down. It actually contradicts other scripture so we know it cannot be right.<br /><br />This is where this man's teaching really becomes dangerous false teaching:<br /><br />"Thus, to refuse honor to whom the Lord has qualified to lead His people is to reject the authority of the Head of God’s house."<br /><br />Questions:<br /><br />1. How does one determine who the Lord has qualified? Is it a seminary degree? Ordination? Title? All are man made or man-conferred and have nothing to do with the indwelling Holy Spirt <br />Who gives pure Widsom from above.<br /><br />2. What does honor imply in this man's words?<br /><br />3. What does 'God's House' mean? We are God's House because if we are saved, He lives in US. The Cross invalidated the Temple and tore the Temple veil in two.<br /><br />Pastor Pryme,<br /><br />Thanks so much for the Greek rendering which is exactly how it should read.<br /><br />Here is a great teaching on this verse that needs to be studied by all Bereans:<br /><br />http://www.theexaminer.org/volume2/number4/rule.htm<br /><br />MattAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-54608845860146236122009-12-03T16:04:43.249-05:002009-12-03T16:04:43.249-05:00"Bro Rod,
I see that you are quoting from th..."Bro Rod,<br /><br />I see that you are quoting from the NKJV. Is that your Bible of choice? Since I am on the subject of New Age Bibles, what do you think of all these modern bibles?"<br /><br />Dec. 3, 11:20<br /><br />December 3, 2009 2:04 PM<br /><br />My preference is the NKJV.<br /><br />But I will also ref.the KJV,NASB and the ESV.Bro./Pastor Rod H.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-8394372058359501272009-12-03T14:04:19.727-05:002009-12-03T14:04:19.727-05:00Bro Rod,
I see that you are quoting from the NKJV...Bro Rod,<br /><br />I see that you are quoting from the NKJV. Is that your Bible of choice? Since I am on the subject of New Age Bibles, what do you think of all these modern bibles?<br /><br />Dec. 3, 11:20Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-40781932318970347402009-12-03T11:43:58.642-05:002009-12-03T11:43:58.642-05:00"My experience is that Godly preachers of my ..."My experience is that Godly preachers of my time, and before, have preached STOREHOUSE TITHEING. Among those were Jerry Vines, Homer Lindsay, and Jerry Falwell to name a few. Clearly, in the Storehouse message,was the emphesis that all that one gives should be from a LOVING GRATEFUL HEART." <br /><br />December 3, 2009 11:20 AM<br /><br />Anon as much as I respect and respected these men.<br />They were and are wrong in attempting to force tithing on the Church!!!<br /><br />The Apostle Paul writing to the Galatians stated..."But from those who "seemed to be something"––whatever they were, it makes no difference to me; God shows "PERSONAL FAVORITISM" to "NO" man––for those who seemed to be something added nothing to me.[Gal.2:6]<br /><br />Sincere are not,it makes no difference to me as well. <br /><br />These men were wrong to teach and preach a specific set amount for the New Test.Believer to give..."PERIOD"!!!Bro./Pastor Rod H.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-81632822133980629512009-12-03T11:20:36.887-05:002009-12-03T11:20:36.887-05:00Watchdog,
I have read parts of this current blo...Watchdog, <br /><br />I have read parts of this current blog. It is clear that there is a bent, here, that pastors should not beat the sheep over the head to COMPEL THEM TO TITHE. I agree with that.<br /><br />What I do not agree with is the notion that a tithe should not go to the LOCAL church. Also, that the tithe was ONLY MEANT FOR THE OLD TESTAMENT people.<br /><br />My experience is that Godly preachers of my time, and before, have preached STOREHOUSE TITHEING. Among those were Jerry Vines, Homer Lindsay, and Jerry Falwell to name a few. Clearly, in the Storehouse message,was the emphesis that all that one gives should be from a LOVING GRATEFUL HEART. <br /><br />As strong Christians, and I think most of you are, we better start concentrating our efforts on the many BAD CHANGES that are permiating our churches. Go into some of the churches around you and see if they are as sound as they once were. I offer that you will be amazed at the apostacy you will find.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-18253712775541716962009-12-03T10:19:54.292-05:002009-12-03T10:19:54.292-05:00I like what Stephen Olford says about Hebrews 13:1...<i>I like what Stephen Olford says about Hebrews 13:17 - Obey those who rule over you, and be submissive, for they watch out for your souls, as those who must give account. Let them do so with joy and not with grief, for that would be unprofitable for you. </i><br /><br />I like what the Greek actually says about Heb. 13:7 and 17---<br /><b>Remember those who lead you and spoke the Word of God to you. Consider the pattern of their behavior and imitate their faith.<br /><br />Be persuaded by your leaders and defer to them, for they watch out for your souls and will have to give an account. Let this be a joy for them and don't complain, which would be to your disadvantage.</b>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-85477055324494731522009-12-03T09:51:46.775-05:002009-12-03T09:51:46.775-05:00"Both Vines and Lindsey preached it is our Ch..."Both Vines and Lindsey preached it is our Christian responsibility to tithe to the church. If the dog is right and this is false doctrine then he is saying Vines and Lindsey were ignorant at best and false teachers at worst."<br /><br /><br />Tithing is not a false docrine in itself.<br /><br />I was baptised by Dr.Lindsay and have the upmost respect for him as a geniune man of God!<br /><br />But it is "ABSOLUTELY FALSE" too attempt to imply,force,coerce,or anything else the tithe on the Chruch;;; "PERIOD"!!!Bro./Pastor Rod H.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-54292621877165335212009-12-03T09:44:40.184-05:002009-12-03T09:44:40.184-05:00Anon December 3, 2009 7:51 AM
How do you determine...Anon December 3, 2009 7:51 AM<br />How do you determine who “the Lord has qualified to lead His people”? The last person who told you God talked to him? Jim Jones? Ted Haggard? It’s no wonder that there are 36,000 + Christian sects. This blog is just a microcosm of Christianity and look at all of the contradictions by “God’s Anointed”. As Kelly Bundy would say “it wobbles the mind”Dr. Fillnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-10597802931514251342009-12-03T07:55:23.149-05:002009-12-03T07:55:23.149-05:00Neither Vines nor Lindsay ever told me that I was ...<i>Neither Vines nor Lindsay ever told me that I was "obligated to tithe" if I joined the church.</i><br /><br />Both Vines and Lindsey preached it is our Christian responsibility to tithe to the church. If the dog is right and this is false doctrine then he is saying Vines and Lindsey were ignorant at best and false teachers at worst.<br /><br />It matters not how it comes our, with a smooth calm voice or a screaming rant, if it is false, it is false. The enemy can use both the calm and irate to proclaim his message.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-30048943529018685302009-12-03T07:51:04.798-05:002009-12-03T07:51:04.798-05:00Matt,
I like what Stephen Olford says about Hebre...Matt,<br /><br />I like what Stephen Olford says about Hebrews 13:17 - <b>Obey those who rule over you, and be submissive, for they watch out for your souls, as those who must give account. Let them do so with joy and not with grief, for that would be unprofitable for you.</b> <br /><br /><br /><i>The church of God is not a democracy, but a theocracy: a place where the Son of God rules (<b>Hebrews 3:6 but Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.</b>). Therefore, the church is not a sphere where every man has equal status and authority, but rather a fellowship in which the Head of the house appoints each to his own place and duty (<b>Matthew 25:14-15 For the kingdom of heaven is like a man traveling to a far country, who called his own servants and delivered his goods to them. And to one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one, to each according to his own ability; and immediately he went on a journey. Mark 13:34 It is like a man going to a far country, who left his house and gave authority to his servants, and to each his work, and commanded the doorkeeper to watch.</b>). Thus, to refuse honor to whom the Lord has qualified to lead His people is to reject the authority of the Head of God’s house. This divine rulership teaches us to respect:</i>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-77700611144175476982009-12-02T20:43:27.897-05:002009-12-02T20:43:27.897-05:00Neither Vines nor Lindsay ever told me that I was ...Neither Vines nor Lindsay ever told me that I was "obligated to tithe" if I joined the church. They never told me that gas prices were high or that the economy was suffering because of non-tithers. These men were respected theologians and measured their words carefully. They never said "you didn't know that, well you know it now." They did, of course, believe that God used members that tithed to finance the work in Jacksonville. Lindsay taught his people to love Jesus and to tithe. I don't have a problem with that. Just like he used the Chest of Joash as a method of giving. This is much better than paying thousands to Maurilio (imagine what Lindsay would say about him!) to help with "fundraising."<br /><br />And, those two were NOT arrogant, brazen jerks that put their family on staff and beat the sheep. They were humble pastors that labored faithfully for decades at the same church.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-41206520201525104112009-12-02T20:43:27.898-05:002009-12-02T20:43:27.898-05:00I agree with Matt in his comments about Anonymous ...I agree with Matt in his comments about Anonymous who said to treat disagreements with Brunson "as a family matter." <br /><br />"A family matter" is one of the phrases highlighted in a list of spiritually abusive terms on a site that examines spiritual abuse called What Language Does Your Church Speak? (http://batteredsheep.com/church-speak.html)<br /><br />Here's what it says:<br /><br />A Family matter: When the church leadership doesn't want the embarrassment of public disclosure in the community at large regarding a scandal in the church, that scandal becomes a "family matter" and is not to be discussed with people outside of the church or group. That the community at large has a vital and legitimate interest in the matter is ignored, even when the matter involves wrong-doing such as criminal sexual conduct, child or wife abuse, a suspicious death and so on. In such cases the primary reason for something to be "a family matter" is so the leadership or church can "save face". See also "Tell it not in Gath".<br /><br />Though WD isn't accusing the church leadership of matters like those listed above, it is curious that the same reasoning and phrasing is used. It's cover-up language and serves as a red flag.Provenderhttp://pureprovender.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-59576031184125731642009-12-02T20:34:54.228-05:002009-12-02T20:34:54.228-05:00Glad to be of service, Matt. Thanks!
It's fun...Glad to be of service, Matt. Thanks!<br /><br />It's funny, isn't it, that the ones who shout the loudest about giving so God will bless (which is really investing, not giving) never take their own advice? If giving is a magic multiplier, then why don't these preachers lead by example and give everything they've got to the needy? <br /><br />And why is only one gift of the Spirit a paid position? Other gifts are expected to work for free as well as support "clergy". <br /><br />And we wonder why there is such a thing as "pastor burnout". Maybe if we all stopped trying to run a business and oversee every department, this wouldn't happen. All the other people use their spiritual gifts after working all day, yet they get a guilt trip if they say they need a break. <br /><br />So many questions, so little time!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-43435693541583054172009-12-02T20:10:32.932-05:002009-12-02T20:10:32.932-05:00Since Tiger Woods was mentioned in one comment ......Since Tiger Woods was mentioned in one comment ...<br /><br /><a href="http://kerussocharis.blogspot.com/2009/12/two-edge-sword-of-gender-equality.html" rel="nofollow">Wade's Blog > The Two-Edge Sword of Gender Equality: A Lesson from the Tiger Woods Fiasco</a>.<br /><br />And another attempt to out anonymous online critics ...<br /><br /><a href="http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/12/usa-technologies-attempts-out-anonymous-critics" rel="nofollow">EFF > USA Technologies Attempts to Out Anonymous Online Critics, Runs Into New California Fee Statute</a>.Rameshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09728392311602332613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-52758790238896700222009-12-02T17:06:14.555-05:002009-12-02T17:06:14.555-05:00"And we could turn the question around: If pa..."And we could turn the question around: If pastors had any faith, they'd stop beating the sheep about tithing, criticizing the pastor, etc. and leave the results up to GOD."<br /><br />Sorry but this needs to be read and read again.<br /><br />MattAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com