tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post7111675987921531361..comments2024-03-07T00:24:23.674-05:00Comments on FBC Jax Watchdogs: Caner Retaliates: Bloggers are "Frustrated People in their Basement" and "It Takes More than Edited Videos to Bring me Down"FBC Jax Watchdoghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comBlogger110125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-30349426828151751482010-11-12T14:35:07.950-05:002010-11-12T14:35:07.950-05:00Dude! You live in Jax and you have a basement? V...Dude! You live in Jax and you have a basement? Very cool. Just, please don't eat Cheetos.<br /><br />Hang in there and sorry about that lawsuit thing. Pitiful.Larry Geigerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13158449612437822789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-68233171546549193362010-10-15T10:45:42.067-04:002010-10-15T10:45:42.067-04:00I have never seen so much hatred in one place.
Dr...I have never seen so much hatred in one place. <br />Dr. Caner has A.P.O.L.O.G.I.Z.E.D for whatever "misspeakings" this entire fiasco was created about. Why are you all beating a DEAD HORSE? <br /><br />Craig D. is a dear friend of mine as well Dr. Caner's. We are all defending our Friend and his family from the viciousness of "believers like you". I was always taught that Christians are to "love one another"...thats what MY BIBLE says. My Bible says to "forgive seventy times seven", just as YOU are forgiven by Your Heavenly Father. What makes YOU judge and jury? I'm not God, dont wanna BE God and aint gonna try and take His place. The Caners have been through the ringer with this drivel. Their sons are feeling the pain as well. <br />Forgive, move onward and upward. It's over. Let it go.<br />Oh, and I'm not ashamed or afraid to post my name as well.<br />I'm Happycappeys. Proud Friend of The Caner family and Craig D. LU Grad, Class of 93. TRBC church member....anything else?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-62520783925424400972010-10-05T05:25:05.380-04:002010-10-05T05:25:05.380-04:00Someone said big deal preachers are like salesmen....Someone said big deal preachers are like salesmen. That's a great description. They're good at selling the product (entertainment), so they get very popular and make good money and bring in a lot of money for the business (the church.)<br /><br />I find blogs like this fascinating. You get to have a back and forth between real people. It's not like at church, where the pastor gets to do all the talking. Plus as everybody knows, no one, including the pastor, can be their real selves at church. Church is the last place you'd dare to be your real self. Must keep up appearances.<br /><br />So I think blogs jive a lot better with reality.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-56439568107411258272010-10-01T14:17:13.682-04:002010-10-01T14:17:13.682-04:00I Timothy 5:17 - Let the elders that rule well be ...I Timothy 5:17 - Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.<br /><br />I Thessalonians 5:12-13 – And we beseech you, brethren, to know them which labour among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you; And to esteem them very highly in love for their work’s sake. And be at peace among yourselves.<br /><br />Hebrews 13:7 – Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.<br /><br />I know that there are other pastor's that read this blog. I pray for you and pray that God will strengthen you and the ministry He has placed you in. May God bless.Pastor Keith Arphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18014010432179608392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-55428238381725729732010-10-01T14:05:18.628-04:002010-10-01T14:05:18.628-04:00"You are typical of the spiritually dead. You..."You are typical of the spiritually dead. You are a hypocrite. Hopefully your pew sitters will wise up and study on their own."<br /><br />You are a very bitter, angry, and hateful person. You hate preachers. It is obvious that someone in such a position has hurt you in the past, so now you are trying to eisigete scripture to remove that calling all together. Jesus Christ would never speak with the hate you speak with. You, my friend, do not discern scripture. You may be able to quote it but you lack the ability to interpret. It is not "what it means to you", it is what it says. Simple hermeneutics. I really do not care what you think of me. I do, however, care about you and your eternal state. Just waiting to see a little bit of Christ in your statements. So far you are batting 0.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-78781460529787171032010-10-01T00:53:02.365-04:002010-10-01T00:53:02.365-04:00O"f course all believers are called of God. B...O"f course all believers are called of God. But within the body of believers are those Christ called to certain responsibilities. If I am ignorant when it comes to this truth, then I guess Paul was too."<br /><br />So typical! Claim ONLY YOU can undestand the correct interpretation. Eph 4 is the ONLY place the word "pastor" is mentioned. So, I guess you think you are ONLY a shepherd and of course NOT a sheep, right? <br /><br /> So, tell me, why aren't ALL the Epistles written to the all important pastors and elders? Why write them to the WHOLE chuch? Why let the ignorant nobodies in the Body have responsiblity for carrying out the counsel in the letters? Hmmmm?<br /><br />Tell me, who is the pastor of the church at Philippi? Corinth? If it such an important God called postion of authority and responsbility, you would think we would have heard about each one in each Epistle. Interesting, huh?<br /><br />Truth is, what Eph 4 is talking about are functions. Equal in the Body. The "elder" can be recognized as looking the most like Matt 5. Lowly servant to others. Seasoned and mature believer. NOT living off the believers. Paul said he GAVE and did not take but from one church.<br /><br />You have made your living so long in your bubble, you have no clue and cannot think outside the man made institution.<br /><br />You don't even know scripture well enough to teach it. Your comments are shallow, pedantic and prove you interpret the Bible to YOUR advantage. Note how you accuse folks here of judging YET, you do the exact same thing!<br /><br />And you accuse folks of delighting in Caner's failures. So, now you read minds and hearts.<br /><br />You are typical of the spiritually dead. You are a hypocrite. Hopefully your pew sitters will wise up and study on their own.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-81406569330098306972010-09-30T23:24:59.753-04:002010-09-30T23:24:59.753-04:00"Anonymous, if you really can't be bother..."Anonymous, if you really can't be bothered to take the time to look into this very well-documented matter, then why are you expressing an opinion?"<br /><br />One need not know the specific details to know that it is not Christian character to enjoy to failures of another. If people would bother to actually read my post without trumpeting their own agenda, they would realize that I am not defending anyone. I am simply begging by the mercies of God that the people of God stop acting like people of the world.<br /><br />"Pastor, your comment only makes you look even more ignorant of the Word. All believers are "called of God". There are no professional Christians or specially anointed. We are a holy priesthood. You have bought into the lie that there is a "special Christian class" of people with man conferred titles.<br /><br />but then, that is how you make your living, isn't it."<br /><br />Sad. Of course all believers are called of God. But within the body of believers are those Christ called to certain responsibilities. If I am ignorant when it comes to this truth, then I guess Paul was too. Ephesians 4:11-16 (KJV) - 11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.<br /><br />Why do people have to be so hateful. When Jesus sorrowfully looked at the multitudes of people and told His disciples "the harvest is plentiful..." I am certain among them were some of "the religious crowd". Jesus said to the disciples to Pray the Lord of the harvest send laborers. Many of you that consider yourself a laborer do so based on your own merit. In reality you are just part of the harvest. I pray you find the joy and peace that is in Christ. When you do, it will no longer excite you to see someone fall. I am not judging, Jesus is. He said His sheep know His voice and a stranger they will not follow. The voice of Christ is never heard amongst the laughter directed at the fallen, yet can be heard throughout all of Heaven saying "I forgive" to the repentant.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-20160660560946102142010-09-30T19:24:15.659-04:002010-09-30T19:24:15.659-04:00"Again with the disdain for the called men of..."Again with the disdain for the called men of God. Very disconcerting. Sounds like you have an axe to grind."<br /><br />Pastor, your comment only makes you look even more ignorant of the Word. All believers are "called of God". There are no professional Christians or specially anointed. We are a holy priesthood. You have bought into the lie that there is a "special Christian class" of people with man conferred titles.<br /><br />but then, that is how you make your living, isn't it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-31183916700293721562010-09-30T17:30:20.540-04:002010-09-30T17:30:20.540-04:00"First of all, you really need to be careful ..."First of all, you really need to be careful how you speak to and how you treat God's man! Just a little warning. And, no, I am not just talking about myself, although I am included in that, whether you think so or not."<br /><br /><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAnAFBj9ejE" rel="nofollow">U Can't Touch This</a>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-11613776975490511892010-09-30T15:31:04.386-04:002010-09-30T15:31:04.386-04:00To "Pastor"
I'm not going to go lin...To "Pastor"<br /><br />I'm not going to go line by line through the drivel you just posted. But I will address one portion of it. You stated:<br /><br />"First of all, you really need to be careful how you speak to and how you treat God's man!" <br /><br />How dare you, sir!! How DARE you tell a Christian believer that you are "God's man" therefore we poor, common laypeople better shut up and listen to each and every word that oozes out of your mouth. <br /><br />Sir, you can take your clericalism, and STICK IT. I grew up in the Roman Church. I would not submit to its clerical tyranny, and I CERTAINLY am not going to sit still and accept it from a two-bit Baptist hack such as yourself.<br /><br />Each and every Christian is "God's man (or woman)." If you cannot accept that basic Biblical teaching, then go become a Papist, because you certainly share their spirit.The Other Tomnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-74784994815520547982010-09-30T15:23:43.692-04:002010-09-30T15:23:43.692-04:00Great blog. It's sad, but it's all about ...Great blog. It's sad, but it's all about the $$$$$$$$$. You have to understand, the "heavyweights" in the Christian faith have mortgages, credit cards, wives, teens, car payments they have to pay for! Ergun is no exception. I'm a Senior at Liberty (Distance) and I had to take a really stupid course advertised as "Philosophy 101" and it turned out to be nothing more than a somewhat aplogetics class using Caner's book and video of Caner himself...my only concern was that they were going to invalidate the credit because of this bozo. Yes Sir! The Faith is chock full'o pediphiles, crooks, liars, "lovers of men" (in the strictest sense...i.e, homos)and every kind of malcontent and workers of iniquity (I was so angry about how you were treated by the "Mac" at FBC) that no wonder Islam is making such headway! Keep up the good work.Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15855481924833688551noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-84406625693805779372010-09-30T14:44:48.438-04:002010-09-30T14:44:48.438-04:00Anonymous, "I don't know whether he has t...Anonymous, "I don't know whether he has told lies or not."<br /><br />Anonymous, if you really can't be bothered to take the time to look into this very well-documented matter, then why are you expressing an opinion?Frederickahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17071420764901945035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-38290005364046819572010-09-30T13:30:42.022-04:002010-09-30T13:30:42.022-04:00cont....
"Secondly, Tom and Debbie are not p...cont....<br /><br />"Secondly, Tom and Debbie are not paid professional Christians who teach and live off followers money. If they were, then we should scrutinize every word they say...as Bereans."<br /><br />Really bad analogy. Are you saying it is not incumbent upon all Christians to be truthful? Aren't we all held to that standard? Not certain about the "Berean" analogy. Are you talking about the Biblical Bereans, or are you talking about the Berean movement in the 18th century.<br /><br />"But of course, it is OK for you to judge them because you are "paid" to do so. Right? You get a free pass on judging because of your title.<br /><br />Again with the disdain for the called men of God. Very disconcerting. Sounds like you have an axe to grind.<br /><br />"Because as we are seeing on blogs, most pastors interpret the Word to their benefit as we have seen you do in your comment. No wonder there is a famine in the land of knowing the Word! The pastors are either ignorant or twisting the Word to their own benefit. <br /><br />We are not to judge tares! I guess that means Ted Haggard and Matt Baker should get their pastor jobs back."<br /><br />Do you consider Ted Haggard and Matt Baker lost? If so, when did God give you the ability to see their heart? Have they done wrong? Absolutely. Will God hold them accountable? By the Word of God, Yes! Are you in the position to make eternal judgements. I hate to burst your super-spiritual bubble, but nope!<br /><br />"Sure, Romans is teaching we should ignore evil and lies in the Body. Sure, pastor. For too long, you have not been challenged for what you teach. And that is NOT good for you. Stick around, you might be convicted of the truth of the Word. I am praying for YOUR pew sitters!"<br /><br />Do you really think that is what Romans is teaching, or are you being sarcastic? Not sure. Just to clarify, Romans 14-15 teaches us not to "tear" each other apart, but to pray and help one another. If our brothers or sisters fall, pick them up, don't step on them. It teaches us not to get caught up in "non-eternal" issues in the church, but to know that the ground is even at the foot of the cross, and all people that come to Him, whether Jew or Gentile, have access to all His Glory! This blog is dedicated to the destruction of God's people, not the edification. This is scary and unbiblical, for we all could have a blog for the purposes of our failures. I pray no one ever hates me that much, and I pray for those that must suffer because of this Satanic device. This blog is just a firey dart in Satan's arsenal. Thank God for His armor!<br /><br />As for the personal attacks on me, I am ok with that. If Jesus was persecuted, who am I to think I am above it. And it comes from the same Pharisetical people. I am scrutinized every time God allows me to stand for Him. I am scrutinized by Him. I wished it were just you, because, with all do respect, your wisdom is filth in the sight of God. Scrutiny by the author is always more compelling. I pray for His wisdom. May God forgive the hate in this site, and may He bless all ministries represented for His glory.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-7689594103608666492010-09-30T13:27:26.420-04:002010-09-30T13:27:26.420-04:00"Oh puleeeese. Pastor, if you think you face ..."Oh puleeeese. Pastor, if you think you face demons everyday, go out and work in the REAL world every day."<br /><br />Unfortunately, the demons we face mask themselves to be Christians. I know all to well the "real world". Until you have faced the difficulties of pastoring, please try not to judge whether difficulties exist. Believe me, Satan is placing demons in the path of the called men of God. You sound angry. Do you love and pray for your pastor, or do you consider it your responsibility to manage him?<br /><br />"I get so sick of the typical pastor whine. they have no clue how insulated they are."<br /><br />Do you really mean you are "sick and tired of pastors"? Just wondering?<br /><br />"But of course, it is OK for you to judge them because you are "paid" to do so. Right? You get a free pass on judging because of your title.<br />"You are too ignorant to be a pastor. You are actually saying that Jesus taught we should promote the tares and follow them as leaders. That is what YOUR scriptural analogy turns out to be concerning Caner! That is what you, in effect, are teaching!"<br /><br />First of all, you really need to be careful how you speak to and how you treat God's man! Just a little warning. And, no, I am not just talking about myself, although I am included in that, whether you think so or not. You are not the one who called me and you certainly will not stop me.<br /><br />Secondly, the wrong interpretation of that scripture is being perpetuated by you. What Jesus is saying is that it is not for us to determine who fall into the category of wheat or tare. The only way to tell the difference is through internal examination, and neither you, nor I, have the capability to do that. The Holy Spirit is really good at that, so I'll just leave that to Him. By the way, are you insisting Caner to be lost. If you are placing him in the "tares" category, you do know that means lost, don't you? I am really concerend about this. On the one hand, if you do not understand the concept of wheat and tares, you really shouldn't be commenting about them. On the other hand, if you do understand the concept, you have just inserted yourself in the role of the Holy Spirit. Which ever is true, it is very disturbing!!<br /><br />"Do you not see what a perversion of the Word that is? You are sick for even suggesting such a thing. You would have people following and learning from tares???<br /><br />I do see the perversion in your interpretation. I am not in the position to determine who are considered wheat and who are considered tares, and niether are you, Tom, or Mrs. Kaufman. Again, are you making the determination that Ergun Caner does not know Christ?<br /><br /><br />"As YOU are "judging" Tom and Debbie in YOUR comment! How rich!!! <br />What a hypocrite!"<br /><br />I am not placing a "wheat vs. tares" judgement on them as all of you are on EC or MB for that matter. The word of God is judging their hateful speach. I have no clue whether they are wheat or tare. I do know, however, the hate they spew is not of Christ. Call that judging if you want. Very sad!<br /><br /><br />"First of all, Caner does not have 'dark secrets'. His lies are all over the place and very public over a 9 year period."<br /><br />Uh, yes he does, and so do you. How would you feel if all of your lies were in public? I don't know whether he has told lies or not. Do you believe anyone has come to a relationship with Christ through Caner's ministry? I am inclined to believe there have been. I pray there will be in the future, for I pray for him, for whatever restoration needs to take place, and for his ministry. I pray for you, too. You sure do seem to hate me. Just sayin'. You might like me if you knew me. Probably not.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-8629784188554735272010-09-30T12:17:06.801-04:002010-09-30T12:17:06.801-04:00Amazing the venom spewed out from you folks.
&qu...Amazing the venom spewed out from you folks. <br /><br />"Oh puleeeese. Pastor, if you think you face demons everyday, go out and work in the REAL world every day."<br /><br />Unfortunately, I and fellow pastors face the real world everyday in people like you. You actually desire and enjoy declaring the failures of others. If you folks would spend as much effort in the call to evangelize, you would have less time to criticize others. But then again, you must have an evangelical experience first.<br /><br />"I get so sick of the typical pastor whine. they have no clue how insulated they are."<br /><br />Why didn't you just say you are sick and tired of pastor's. That is what you really mean. Believe me, we are used to it. You are walking on dangerous ground by speaking so disrespectfully to God's men. But let me guess, you don't consider me God's man. I get it.<br /><br />"You are too ignorant to be a pastor."<br /><br />Pure Hate!!!! May God forgive you.<br /><br />"You are actually saying that Jesus taught we should promote the tares and follow them as leaders. That is what YOUR scriptural analogy turns out to be concerning Caner! That is what you, in effect, are teaching!"<br /><br />This is a non-sensical argument. That is actually not what I am saying. Jesus was teaching us to not waste our time attempting to determine what are tares and what are wheat because the only evidence is determined inside the produce, an area reserved for His examination. Of course, you seem to already have that figured out. I think I'll wait on God, thanks.<br /><br />"You would have people following and learning from tares???"<br /><br />Not a proper assessment of what I said, but then again, it doesn't fit in with your agenda.<br /><br />"We are not to judge tares! I guess that means Ted Haggard and Matt Baker should get their pastor jobs back."<br /><br />Are you saying these men aren't Christians? You do know that is what wheat and tares represent, don't you? These men failed, no doubt. I still pray for them, though. I pray I remain in a position where God can use me. We all have the propensity to fail. Including you.<br /><br />"Sure, Romans is teaching we should ignore evil and lies in the Body. Sure, pastor. For too long, you have not been challenged for what you teach. And that is NOT good for you. Stick around, you might be convicted of the truth of the Word. I am praying for YOUR pew sitters!"<br /><br />You are sadly misguided. I am challenged daily by the author. I am not perfect in my exegeis of scripture. Neither are you. I pray that God will guide me and teach me. I am not concerened with your "challenge", I am concerened with His!<br /><br />I do not declare innocence or guilt, and you have no basis for that either. Do you pray for your pastor? Do you pray for Dr. Caner. Do you pray for Dr. Brunson? Have any of these men ever led anyone to Christ? Do you believe them to be false prophets? What, exactly, are your motives? I care not what you think of me. I do care, however, about your personal relationship with Christ. You sound angry! Your words are unholy banter. I don't know Caner, Brunson, or you, but through Christ, I love all and pray for all. God bless!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-28331603667778385602010-09-30T12:16:57.838-04:002010-09-30T12:16:57.838-04:00Amazing the venom spewed out from you folks.
&qu...Amazing the venom spewed out from you folks. <br /><br />"Oh puleeeese. Pastor, if you think you face demons everyday, go out and work in the REAL world every day."<br /><br />Unfortunately, I and fellow pastors face the real world everyday in people like you. You actually desire and enjoy declaring the failures of others. If you folks would spend as much effort in the call to evangelize, you would have less time to criticize others. But then again, you must have an evangelical experience first.<br /><br />"I get so sick of the typical pastor whine. they have no clue how insulated they are."<br /><br />Why didn't you just say you are sick and tired of pastor's. That is what you really mean. Believe me, we are used to it. You are walking on dangerous ground by speaking so disrespectfully to God's men. But let me guess, you don't consider me God's man. I get it.<br /><br />"You are too ignorant to be a pastor."<br /><br />Pure Hate!!!! May God forgive you.<br /><br />"You are actually saying that Jesus taught we should promote the tares and follow them as leaders. That is what YOUR scriptural analogy turns out to be concerning Caner! That is what you, in effect, are teaching!"<br /><br />This is a non-sensical argument. That is actually not what I am saying. Jesus was teaching us to not waste our time attempting to determine what are tares and what are wheat because the only evidence is determined inside the produce, an area reserved for His examination. Of course, you seem to already have that figured out. I think I'll wait on God, thanks.<br /><br />"You would have people following and learning from tares???"<br /><br />Not a proper assessment of what I said, but then again, it doesn't fit in with your agenda.<br /><br />"We are not to judge tares! I guess that means Ted Haggard and Matt Baker should get their pastor jobs back."<br /><br />Are you saying these men aren't Christians? You do know that is what wheat and tares represent, don't you? These men failed, no doubt. I still pray for them, though. I pray I remain in a position where God can use me. We all have the propensity to fail. Including you.<br /><br />"Sure, Romans is teaching we should ignore evil and lies in the Body. Sure, pastor. For too long, you have not been challenged for what you teach. And that is NOT good for you. Stick around, you might be convicted of the truth of the Word. I am praying for YOUR pew sitters!"<br /><br />You are sadly misguided. I am challenged daily by the author. I am not perfect in my exegeis of scripture. Neither are you. I pray that God will guide me and teach me. I am not concerened with your "challenge", I am concerened with His!<br /><br />I do not declare innocence or guilt, and you have no basis for that either. Do you pray for your pastor? Do you pray for Dr. Caner. Do you pray for Dr. Brunson? Have any of these men ever led anyone to Christ? Do you believe them to be false prophets? What, exactly, are your motives? I care not what you think of me. I do care, however, about your personal relationship with Christ. You sound angry! Your words are unholy banter. I don't know Caner, Brunson, or you, but through Christ, I love all and pray for all. God bless!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-11380670131983467082010-09-30T12:16:37.090-04:002010-09-30T12:16:37.090-04:00Amazing the venom spewed out from you folks.
&qu...Amazing the venom spewed out from you folks. <br /><br />"Oh puleeeese. Pastor, if you think you face demons everyday, go out and work in the REAL world every day."<br /><br />Unfortunately, I and fellow pastors face the real world everyday in people like you. You actually desire and enjoy declaring the failures of others. If you folks would spend as much effort in the call to evangelize, you would have less time to criticize others. But then again, you must have an evangelical experience first.<br /><br />"I get so sick of the typical pastor whine. they have no clue how insulated they are."<br /><br />Why didn't you just say you are sick and tired of pastor's. That is what you really mean. Believe me, we are used to it. You are walking on dangerous ground by speaking so disrespectfully to God's men. But let me guess, you don't consider me God's man. I get it.<br /><br />"You are too ignorant to be a pastor."<br /><br />Pure Hate!!!! May God forgive you.<br /><br />"You are actually saying that Jesus taught we should promote the tares and follow them as leaders. That is what YOUR scriptural analogy turns out to be concerning Caner! That is what you, in effect, are teaching!"<br /><br />This is a non-sensical argument. That is actually not what I am saying. Jesus was teaching us to not waste our time attempting to determine what are tares and what are wheat because the only evidence is determined inside the produce, an area reserved for His examination. Of course, you seem to already have that figured out. I think I'll wait on God, thanks.<br /><br />"You would have people following and learning from tares???"<br /><br />Not a proper assessment of what I said, but then again, it doesn't fit in with your agenda.<br /><br />"We are not to judge tares! I guess that means Ted Haggard and Matt Baker should get their pastor jobs back."<br /><br />Are you saying these men aren't Christians? You do know that is what wheat and tares represent, don't you? These men failed, no doubt. I still pray for them, though. I pray I remain in a position where God can use me. We all have the propensity to fail. Including you.<br /><br />"Sure, Romans is teaching we should ignore evil and lies in the Body. Sure, pastor. For too long, you have not been challenged for what you teach. And that is NOT good for you. Stick around, you might be convicted of the truth of the Word. I am praying for YOUR pew sitters!"<br /><br />You are sadly misguided. I am challenged daily by the author. I am not perfect in my exegeis of scripture. Neither are you. I pray that God will guide me and teach me. I am not concerened with your "challenge", I am concerened with His!<br /><br />I do not declare innocence or guilt, and you have no basis for that either. Do you pray for your pastor? Do you pray for Dr. Caner. Do you pray for Dr. Brunson? Have any of these men ever led anyone to Christ? Do you believe them to be false prophets? What, exactly, are your motives? I care not what you think of me. I do care, however, about your personal relationship with Christ. You sound angry! Your words are unholy banter. I don't know Caner, Brunson, or you, but through Christ, I love all and pray for all. God bless!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-33418763169788961262010-09-30T08:42:16.897-04:002010-09-30T08:42:16.897-04:00" I understand what it is like to face demons..." I understand what it is like to face demons on a daily basis."<br /><br />Oh puleeeese. Pastor, if you think you face demons everyday, go out and work in the REAL world every day.<br /><br />I get so sick of the typical pastor whine. they have no clue how insulated they are.<br /><br />You are too ignorant to be a pastor. You are actually saying that Jesus taught we should promote the tares and follow them as leaders. That is what YOUR scriptural analogy turns out to be concerning Caner! That is what you, in effect, are teaching!<br /><br />(Nevermind what James says about teachers)<br /><br />Do you not see what a perversion of the Word that is? You are sick for even suggesting such a thing. You would have people following and learning from tares???<br /><br />"I am certain He would be warning us about being judgmental "lest we too be judged"."<br /><br />As YOU are "judging" Tom and Debbie in YOUR comment! How rich!!! <br />What a hypocrite!<br /><br />But of course, it is OK for you to judge them because you are "paid" to do so. Right? You get a free pass on judging because of your title.<br /><br /><br />" So, Tom and Debbie, tell us all of your dark secrets. Tell us of all of your failures."<br /><br />First of all, Caner does not have 'dark secrets'. His lies are all over the place and very public over a 9 year period.<br /><br />Secondly, Tom and Debbie are not paid professional Christians who teach and live off followers money. If they were, then we should scrutinize every word they say...as Bereans. <br /><br />Because as we are seeing on blogs, most pastors interpret the Word to their benefit as we have seen you do in your comment. No wonder there is a famine in the land of knowing the Word! The pastors are either ignorant or twisting the Word to their own benefit. <br /><br />We are not to judge tares! I guess that means Ted Haggard and Matt Baker should get their pastor jobs back.<br /><br />Sure, Romans is teaching we should ignore evil and lies in the Body. Sure, pastor. For too long, you have not been challenged for what you teach. And that is NOT good for you. Stick around, you might be convicted of the truth of the Word. I am praying for YOUR pew sitters!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-72315809661925323932010-09-29T17:40:30.782-04:002010-09-29T17:40:30.782-04:00I am not a "defender" of EC, Mac, Long, ...I am not a "defender" of EC, Mac, Long, or any other person in ministry. I am also a pastor. I understand what it is like to face demons on a daily basis. I do not pretend to have the wisdom to declare guilt or innocence to anyone but myself. Debbie Kaufman said that I took Romans 14-15 out of context. That is not true. I know exactly what Paul was teaching. Paul was teaching us to stop over analyzing each other and find common ground on matters of an eternal nature. Instead of ripping EC apart, why not pray for him? And don't use the "he brought this fight on himself" argument, either. As Christians, we should rise above that type of childish reasoning. The only reason Tom or Kaufman or most of the other bloggers on this site spend their time here is for the purpose of hurt. Why did you not respond to the "wheat and tares" analogy, Mrs. Kaufman? I will answer that for you. You, like so many others, have developed a sense of "super-spirituality". You have dwelt in perfection for so long, it is hard for you to understand how someone could fail. Your flaws are masked in your self absorbtion. You are not "exposing" lies of a man. If EC has lied, God will bring that to the surface and will punish accordingly. What ever happened to the Lord's command of "vengence is mine". The attitudes of Tom, Debbie, and their minions is disgusting. If Jesus were typing, I am certain He would be warning us about being judgmental "lest we too be judged". So, Tom and Debbie, tell us all of your dark secrets. Tell us of all of your failures. Tell us of all the times that you have not been truthful and failed to reveal to those you were untruthful to. And yes, you have been untruthful. If you are going to call someone else out, be willing to face the same scrutiny. You folks are like those on an interstate staring out your window at a wreck just hoping you can see the carnage. Sickening!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-87817033919809969952010-09-28T19:36:53.114-04:002010-09-28T19:36:53.114-04:00Craig is just a Philly street punk who thinks he c...Craig is just a Philly street punk who thinks he can be something by acting the part of an Internet Tough Guy. Unfortunately, one day somebody is going to take his mindless threats seriously, and the results will not be pretty.The Other Tomnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-30222765609892808062010-09-28T18:13:44.055-04:002010-09-28T18:13:44.055-04:00Excellent points, Lydia. I never bought into the ...Excellent points, Lydia. I never bought into the "Caner was never a Muslim" idea either. That was a red herring. I think he was a Muslim in much the same way a person whose family went to mass only on Easter and Christmas Eve and who perhaps took the classes and received first communion was a Catholic. I would define that as a "casual" Catholic. Similarly, I'd define Caner as a former "casual" Muslim, but a Muslim nevertheless.New BBC Open Forumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18300115421477555376noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-21529113257811264292010-09-28T17:36:47.291-04:002010-09-28T17:36:47.291-04:00" Motives matter, and I don't 100% trust ..." Motives matter, and I don't 100% trust Khan's motives. It doesn't mean I don't find him credible though."<br /><br />I agree. I think the bigger problem is that Khan insists that Caner was NEVER a Muslim at all. I understand his motivation for that even if I disagree with it.<br /><br />And that was the big defense from Debbie that Khan gets to define what is a Muslim. And if Khan said he was never a Muslim, then it must be true.<br /><br />Some of us disagreed for many reasons...one, that I have been around all kinds of Muslims since pre teens and many were non- practicing Muslims but described themselves as Muslims. And this definition can hold true for non practicing Muslims because Islam is an ideology that comes complete with it's own civil laws.... so many miss that part. <br /><br /> Two, I think we must define Islam by their own holy writings. <br /><br />Caner lied about where he was born, when he came here and his upbringing being trained as a terrorist in a Madrassa. Those obvious lies that Smathers 'smashed' were quite enough for a indictment of lying over a 9 year period. <br /><br />I was uncomfortable with Islam being presented as a religion of peace when it isn't. Even though there are peaceful Muslims.<br /><br />According to their own holy writings, it is not a religion of peace. It is an ideology that means to propagate itself and it's civil laws using violence if necessary.<br /><br />BTW: The History of how their holy writings were put together is very interesting.<br /><br />I was a bit put off with Khan's videos because of the special effect and over editing. I thought they would have come across much better without the slow motion and rapid repeating. But their main point was to prove that Caner cannot claim he was ever a Muslim. And that is something I disagree with even if he was a nominal non practicing Muslim. Khan does not define that for me as Mac does not define what a Christian is for me.Lydiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17367390474045060624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-72749286356475767382010-09-28T16:10:39.537-04:002010-09-28T16:10:39.537-04:00Jason Smathers research was the piece de resistanc...Jason Smathers research was the piece de resistance of the entire scandal. It put official documents up against Caner's constant but inconsistent lies. <br /><br />Turretin Fan delved deep into the inconsistencies.<br /> <br />Sounds like a team effort to me.<br /><br />BTW: If most of us had read the exchange between White and Caner from a few years ago concerning the "debate", we would have known Caner had a serious maturity problem. And that he never really debated Muslims. White could find no proof of any debates that Caner had bragged about publicly. And that was what? 2006?Lydiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17367390474045060624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-24994214625385178402010-09-28T14:51:26.391-04:002010-09-28T14:51:26.391-04:00I stated I thought Mo Khan's videos were stupi...I stated I thought Mo Khan's videos were stupid and that he had an agenda. I stand by that. I did not say he wasn't credible. I actually believe him when he says Caner is ignorant of what are apparently some of the fundamentals of Islam and that some of the words and phrases he spoke were gibberish. I find him to be very credible because I think if he hadn't been we would have heard someone refute his claims by now, and we haven't.<br /><br />But while he pointed out many of the discrepancies in Caner's statements, he heavily edited those videos to the point of being ridiculous. He didn't change Caner's words, but looping clips, slowing down the video, the poor spelling and grammar, etc. just detracted from his message. He made fun of Caner's weight which under some circumstances might be fair game (such as if it were a parody video or if Caner were railing against gluttony), but when you're trying to make a serious point why not just show the straight video, insert commentary, and make your points? The point wasn't that Caner is a glutton. He's a serial liar.<br /><br />Besides, we've got the unedited sermons and speeches, the legal documents, and the word of Christian missionaries familiar with the languages who have stated that what Caner is speaking is gibberish. We don't need to rely solely on the word of a Muslim whose greater agenda, I believe, is to discredit Christianity and make Christians a laughingstock, to prove what we can gather from other, less biased sources. Khan's videos are but a tiny piece of the puzzle. I'm just saying the ends don't always justify the means. Motives matter, and I don't 100% trust Khan's motives. It doesn't mean I don't find him credible though.New BBC Open Forumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18300115421477555376noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-22284336496720572482010-09-28T14:42:35.843-04:002010-09-28T14:42:35.843-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.New BBC Open Forumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18300115421477555376noreply@blogger.com