tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post7268819930995793786..comments2024-03-23T22:54:58.661-04:00Comments on FBC Jax Watchdogs: A Look at the Doctrine of Storehouse TithingFBC Jax Watchdoghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comBlogger98125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-12716009487284319672015-11-20T11:03:24.336-05:002015-11-20T11:03:24.336-05:00Tithing was under and is under the law with a curs...Tithing was under and is under the law with a curse for Christians seeking salvation under the law, Galatians 3:3-13, Malachi 3:1-18. When pastors and priests lie by quoting Malachi 3:1-18,under the law IN OLD COVENANT, how many Christians line up to be served with food when tithes and offering under the law are given? Is the storehouse pastors' and priests' house or the Church being the body of Christ? Saved Christians by grace IN NEW COVENANT who are lead and taught by the Holy Spirit are not under law or in curse in the law. Those who simply imply Christians are under curse for not tithing put into question about unfinished work of redemption (SALVATION) by Christ Jesus on cross of Calvary which is bought and maintained continuously in tithes paid to them. Yet Christ is not ashamed to call us brethren whom He has sanctified. Hebrew 2:9-13.We have been redeemed from the curse of the law, Christ being made a curse for us : for it is written, cursed is everyone that hangs on a tree. Galatians 3:8-13. Christians saved by grace are ministers of the new testament born of love with exceeding glory which surpassed the glory that was in law with Moses. We have been redeemed from the curse of the law to adoptions of sons in Royal Priesthood. Pastors ,Priest and Bishops who are servants of God cannot subject sons of God in Royal Priesthood to tithe taxes which absolutely illegal for we are not under the curse of the law, Galatians 5:1, Galatians4:4-5,2 Corinthians 3:1-18. Sins sacrifices ,offerings under the law, curses, and generation curses under law in the old covenant remained up to death of Jesus Christ on Calvary when He fulfilled the requirements of the law. Salvation under the law one attains it at last breath on earth having done all that pertains to the law which is hard for one to accomplish. Even the tithe which was given by Abraham was under the law of sin and death from the fallen state of Adam and Eve at the garden of Aden. Those who lie would like to deceive Christians that tithe was before the law but before which law. When Christ our High Priest was born He was given gifts and not tithes Mathew 2:11-12. Salvation under spiritual law of love by grace is freely given and attained with free miracles from God our Father, Ephesians 2:4 -9, Ephesians 2:13 -20. Under Leviticus priesthood which belonged to the tribe of Levi, tithes were given to Levites priests for use by the whole tribe of Levi and tithe of tithe to the high Priest for they shared no land apart from the walled towns they were allocated to stay in for their continuous sacrifice to God, Numbers 18:20 -29. Widows, strangers ,fatherless and orphans benefited from tithes and offerings given to Levites, Deuteronomy 14:22-29. In Christianity widows were asked to be catered by close brethren to ease burden to the Church. There were also tithes of different kinds in Israel. There was also a tithe where a family had to eat all before the Lord, Deutreronomy12:6-7. In Christ Jesus we are saved by grace to adoptions of sons in Royal Priesthood of Christ (for Christians)and not by works of law ,Galatians 3:8-13,Acts13: 38-39, Galatians 4: 4-5, Galatians2:16-21, Galatians 5:18. Sons have direct access to the Father and free common inheritance not bought or worked for from the Father. For servants ( Pastors and Priests) are servants of God worthy all respects and due help. Much preaching is done in grace and love to Christians at early stages who are later sleeking entangled and enslaved in fear under bondage of the law emphatically taught by many in seeking dwindling fortune of falsehood in tithes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-14409830001577536392009-12-02T18:52:16.934-05:002009-12-02T18:52:16.934-05:00A clear definition of "The Kingdom of GOD&quo...A clear definition of "The Kingdom of GOD" may help some understand the tithe issue. Helping the pastor get a new car or purchase a plane or rehab the church building because the carpets are frayed are not kingdom issues. I am a pastor and I don't teach the tithe as a mandate for NT believers. Our church does fine and we are a small church. We could do better financially but not by pushing tithes, curses and OT law keeping. Generosity and grace giving is a better way. HOw does the pastor ask a person receiving public assistance. or diability to pay 10% plus offerings when the gov't is supplementing their income or providing it. You are taxing the people and the government. Those who have more have a greater responsibility to do more "not by compulsion or constraint" for the LORD loves a cheerful giver.<br />Not all people tithed under the old covenant.<br />Far too many churches are focusing on building an earthly monument to their church name or the pastor's ego than they are building GOD's kingdom.saint jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02592990540784692887noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-40849025338784927422009-12-01T08:11:46.859-05:002009-12-01T08:11:46.859-05:00Question: "Can anyone tell me where the store...Question: "Can anyone tell me where the storehouse and silos are that hold all the seeds and grains?"<br /><br />Answer: Behind the gates in the elite "gated" communities.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-71500490558299350932009-11-30T20:23:14.191-05:002009-11-30T20:23:14.191-05:00Can anyone tell me where the storehouse and silos ...Can anyone tell me where the storehouse and silos are that hold all the seeds and grains?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-71741036021808909472009-11-24T12:03:28.352-05:002009-11-24T12:03:28.352-05:00Unfortunately, not many will read the book, or the...Unfortunately, not many will read the book, or their own bible. They will simply be entertained by Mac's history lessons and his yelling at them "Its in 'da book." "Take it up with 'da book."<br /><br />He wouldn't dare suggest that if he thought some members actually would do so. But he and others are being exposed and will have to explain themselves when they are caught in their lies and false teaching about tithing.<br /><br />The mills of the gods do indeed grind slow, but they grind exceedingly fine. And only God can help them then. Maybe Mac was talking about himself when he said that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-87902846841516200172009-11-23T15:22:24.562-05:002009-11-23T15:22:24.562-05:00John MacArthur has an excellent series on giving o...John MacArthur has an excellent series on giving on his website titled, "God's Plan for Giving". It clearly lays out the OT teachings on tithing, what it was for and how it was used to support the Levites, which was the government for the children of Israel. I wish all the SBC pastors could read this teaching and have their eyes opened. Better yet, would all Christians read and understand what the Bible teaches about giving. Here is the link:http://www.gty.org/Resources/Sermons/1302FBC/Dal membernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-54758435340008490482009-11-23T09:12:40.902-05:002009-11-23T09:12:40.902-05:00Here is another point of thought: If church member...Here is another point of thought: If church members only gave to those in need and only to sharing of the gospel...then how would you sit in your air conditioned worship centers? How would the preschool minister get paid? How would the parking lot get repaired? How would students get curriculum, sound systems and choir books?<br />__________________________________<br /><br />I had all of the above things you listed in every church I have ever been in. Some had budgets under $250,000. And we still had ALL of the above. So why does a church with a $500.000 budget, and another with $1,300,000 budget, and another with a $18 million dollar budget, ALL tell their congregation that if they just had more money from their respective congregations, they could do some real ministry? <br /><br />I like all those things you mention, and do no object to some of the offerings going to them, but the more we give "to God" it seems all "God" gets in return is more family members on staff, higher salaries, fancy titles to the assistants to the pastor, bigger buildings, better TV screens, and more whining about needing more money. <br /><br />Mac Brunson opened my eyes to what is going on. Before him, I never questioned church budgets or expenditures. His arrogance and brazenness and hypocrisy with his own book, nepotism, land gifts, preaching gigs, and Danube River cruises, and Holy Land tour guide gigs, caused me to have some questions for the first time in my life. His response to my questions, or arrogant lack of response, and the aggressive nature in which my concerns were addressed, caused me to pray for and support the WD, who was the only one willing to pursue answers to his concern.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-68846141155524310002009-11-23T07:30:52.041-05:002009-11-23T07:30:52.041-05:00I give up on trying to explain some things to some...I give up on trying to explain some things to some people, because they are either part of the "rip off" or they want to be known as "super spiritual". Usually they are young and dumb or they have an "agenda". Either way it is useless and frustrating trying to get "through" to these pseudo intellectual/false doctrine pushers. I don't waste my time anymore. I always say "buyer beware", when you enter a church of Laodicea today. You can get your mind messed with and your pocket picked-(doctrinally speaking not literally)) at the same time.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-70329410182149372272009-11-23T07:08:41.240-05:002009-11-23T07:08:41.240-05:00Jon: You won't find the word Tithe and Tithing...Jon: You won't find the word Tithe and Tithing in all of Paul's Epistles. Paul understood first hand that is was under the OT.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-56999319829206532032009-11-23T00:01:27.505-05:002009-11-23T00:01:27.505-05:00Jon, You came here guns blazing rebuking and teach...Jon, You came here guns blazing rebuking and teaching false doctrine. And false teaching makes me angry as it should. <br /><br />You want me to show you are NT verse that says not to tithe as in the OT teaching on tithe?<br /><br />Ok, then show me the NT verse that tells us that there is no cooking meat in goats milk. The NT did not repeal that one, either.<br /><br />So where am I to take my cumin and dill? Where do I put the showbread? So, who are your Levite priests who take in the tithe. I would like to meet them.<br /><br />And you are cheating. It is more like 37% since it is about 'tithes' and not giving.<br /><br />Jon, I would really appreciate it, since you are so concerned with anonymous comments, if you would tell us your name and church so we can avoid it.<br /><br />PubliusAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-30012740934937148982009-11-22T17:46:35.614-05:002009-11-22T17:46:35.614-05:00Anon 2:02 and 1:59,
Anger has never accomplis...Anon 2:02 and 1:59,<br /><br /> Anger has never accomplished the righteousness life God calls us to...(James 1:20). You are an angry man brother. <br /> I also haven't changed my tune at all - perhaps (like your Barnabus type) I haven't conveyed my thoughts from my heart to the keyboard very well.<br /> And yes, check your history. Many synagogues were used by Christians in the new church age. I am not talking about the Temple destroyed in 70-72AD, I am talking about the synagogues of Antioch, Colossi, etc... Perhaps the following would help you with this:<br /><br />Synagogue to Church: Public services and offices in the earliest Christian communities (Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1992).<br /><br />My point is that the first Christians did not have to give to the church building because they already had them, or met in homes as you wrote...Acts 2 speaks to that of course as the earliest church.<br /><br />The tithe is never reversed in the NT, please show me when you find that. An offering, a Spirit-leading giving, is added...yes! But to the destruction of the tithe? I personally believe not. I tithe my 10% as a first fruit, and then I gladly offer my addtional 15% as the Spirit has laid on my heart. Gideons, Campus Crusade, and Samaritans Purse is on top of that.<br /><br />As my teenage son says, "Chill!"<br /><br />JonJon Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03534018464482294481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-67053835166610311742009-11-22T14:02:20.869-05:002009-11-22T14:02:20.869-05:00BTW Jon, I get angry when the Word is twisted.
Y...BTW Jon, I get angry when the Word is twisted. <br /><br />You came on here telling us that Jesus rebuking the Pharisees about HOW they tithe and what they teach was proof that Jesus was teaching tithing to the early Christians AFTER the Cross. That is what you were teaching even if you did not understand it. <br /><br />That makes my blood boil. You misrepresent my Savior so you can beat the sheep over giving to buildings and salaries. <br /><br /> It is sinful and I hope you repent of making giving and offerings a work.<br /><br />As an elder, ignorance of the Word is no excuse.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-21719861342886932722009-11-22T13:59:05.806-05:002009-11-22T13:59:05.806-05:00Jon, Glad to see you are changing your tune as we ...Jon, Glad to see you are changing your tune as we interact. That happens often enough with folks who come in guns blazing that when we say there is no 'tithe' in the NC are talking about not giving at all. I hope you realize that Jesus Christ raised the bar. It is not a percentage. It is from the heart where the Holy Spirit dwells. It is much more radical than a commanded 'tithe'.<br /><br /> You guys always whip out every OT passage they can find to try and prove their doctrinal stance. Teaching the Old Covenant of a Theocracy as binding on today. What is repeated in the New Covenant is binding. First and foremost Love God with all your heart and love others. When this happens we want to help others and share with them supplying their needs.<br /><br />But this was quite confusing:<br /><br />"Since most new churches were actually old synagogues isn't wasn't necessary to spent huge amounts on church buildings "<br /><br />Seriously? Did you learn this in seminary?<br /><br />You are familiar with history of AD 70, right?<br /><br />Actual church buildings for early believers were not in vogue until Constantine who turned the pagan temples into churches. Which is where we get many of our traditions of an 'orator' on a stage, an altar, pulpit, pews, etc. <br /><br />The early Christians, after being scattered following Pentecost, met in homes, by the river, etc. They did not spend their money on building buildings.<br /><br />We should learn a lesson from the huge Cathedrals in Europe which are now tourist traps. Which I predict one day will be the fate of many mega churches.<br /><br />Sorry about my typo on Barnabas. I thought you would have recognized him because I mentioned that he sold his estate and gave it to the Body of Christ. I thought you would recognize Acts 4<br /><br />"5) And sure offerings were used for buildings and land in the NT. Since most new churches were actually old synagogues isn't wasn't necessary to spent huge amounts on church buildings - but it is now...and I would imagine you are the product of sitting in a church that others paid for at some point in your life. Generations of grandparents that tithed on everything that came in to them as a gift from the Lord."<br /><br />Funny you write this today. After the Body meeting, I had lunch with a 90 year old man and we talked about his church experience growing up. He spoke about his dad giving when they had so very little. And the preacher was even poorer so they always made sure to give the preacher part of their harvest for food for the winter. Not a tithe. Just an offering to a brother in Christ in need.<br /><br />Times have changed. Now many pastors make more than the folks they are asking to "Tithe". <br /><br />I think we could glorify our Savior if we passed on the new carpet and sound system and helped our brothers and sisters around us and around the world who are in need. What a witness for the Lord, that would be instead of being so proud of our buildings. God does not dwell there so it is hard to understand why we idolize them so much.<br /><br />I simply have too much experience as a past church leader in many churches not to know the truth. The church is HORRIBLE when it comes to benevolence. <br /><br />PubliusAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-42732228507246587742009-11-22T06:09:11.146-05:002009-11-22T06:09:11.146-05:00Publius,
Again, put away your anger - it do...Publius,<br /> <br /> Again, put away your anger - it does not wear on you well as a Believer.<br /> <br /> 1) I asked about Barnabus because he is an extra-biblical character that the 8th Day Adventist follow. I assume now that you misspelled his name and were actually referring to Barnabas, the traveling partner of Paul who sold his land to give to the church planters.<br /><br /> 2) When I give to the church, I give to people, I give to discipleship programs, I give to missions, I give to food pantries, I give to women job corps, I give to children's camp, I give to orphanages - - all of which my church supports with great percentages. But I also give to the air conditioning, the re-painting, the pews, the fan belts for the van.<br /><br /> 3) I don't encourage tithing to be saved (that is law!) and I don't encourage tithing to be in favor with God (that is law!), I encourage to begin with a tithe to express obedience to our giving Father (that is a responsiveness to His grace).<br /><br /> 4) To not give, to not serve, to not share, to be out of fellowship, to be angry in a public forum of blogging - that is cheap grace...we take the grace and live however we want to - that my friend is spitting on the cross.<br /><br /> 5) And sure offerings were used for buildings and land in the NT. Since most new churches were actually old synagogues isn't wasn't necessary to spent huge amounts on church buildings - but it is now...and I would imagine you are the product of sitting in a church that others paid for at some point in your life. Generations of grandparents that tithed on everything that came in to them as a gift from the Lord.<br /><br /> When you preach/teach - there is no tithe to be given, the vast majority of church goers rejoice (in their immaturity) and say "yes! more tools for the garage!"<br /><br />JonJon Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03534018464482294481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-76416775827884947742009-11-21T22:19:01.667-05:002009-11-21T22:19:01.667-05:00"Who the heck is Barnabus? Are you an 8th Day..."Who the heck is Barnabus? Are you an 8th Day Assembly member? That might explain a lot of your biblical misinterpretations."<br /><br />Again, your ignorance is astounding. Elders are to be the 'spiritually mature'? It would help to know scripture.<br /><br />Here is Barnabas:<br /><br />36 And Joses, who was also named Barnabas by the apostles (which is translated Son of Encouragement), a Levite of the country of Cyprus, 37 having land, sold it, and brought the money and laid it at the apostles’ feet. Acts 4<br /><br /><br /><br />PubliusAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-84931233346278731432009-11-21T22:15:44.449-05:002009-11-21T22:15:44.449-05:00"My point is to remind you that the fulness o..."My point is to remind you that the fulness of the Word is important and significant and still the Word of the Lord (Col 1:25)<br />My point is that so many NT people have cheapened grace so much (like Bonhoeffer said) to say that there is no cost in discipleship or followship. I see your ilk constantly - that they are now free to do what they want. And freedom has nothing to do with that."<br /><br />That is absurd for you to make that suggestion. In reality your insistence upon the law (command to tithe) works to limit giving and turns it into a work of salvation or sanctification. <br /><br />Just remember that what you are teaching is really tithing to an organization that has a building and staff to upkeep. It has NOTHING to do with the Body of Christ and what giving was for in the NT church.<br /><br />It is Pharisetical what you teach. As a matter of fact, I will go one step further and say that pouring money into buildings and the trappings therein instead of helping our brothers and sisters in Christ at home and around the world who are being persecuted is a sin and we will answer for it.<br /><br />You can read about us in Revelation.<br /><br />All one has to do is to look at the percentages many of churches give to missions and know that their teaching on 'tithing' is to benefit themselves with nice buildings, nice salaries and silly events.<br /><br />So you tithe to what? For what?<br /><br />You are the one teaching cheap grace through works.<br /><br />NOT ONE PERSON HAS SAID WE DO NOT HAVE TO GIVE ANY LONGER. THAT IS A LIE YOU HAVE TO BELIEVE TO KEEP ON TEACHING THE LAW. you have to insist we are saying NOT to give. And that is a bald faced lie.<br /><br />In fact, The Cross raised the bar from tithing. <br /><br />Here is the bottomline:<br /><br /> IF we are filled with the Holy Spirit, we are giving MORE. It is NOT required. It is an outcome of the indwelling Holy Spirit.<br /><br />Jesus raised the BAR from tithing to radical giving to help one another and spread the gospel. Not to build buildings and elevate mere men.<br /><br />But some of us have pure wisdom from above and KNOW it is totally unwise to hand money over to the hirlings and wolves. It is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys.<br /><br />There are much better ways to further the true Gospel and it is spelled out in the NT. We help one another and we send out brothers and sisters to spread the word. There are mission organizations that do not pay their execs huge 6 figures. One I would recommend is Heartcry. Most of the money goes directly to the need. then look around you and help a brother or sister in need in the Name of our Lord and keep on doing it! Pray, the Holy Spirit will guide you to those in need. Give to them anonymously only in the Name of Jesus. HE GETS THE GLORY. NOT MAN!<br /><br />You only prove your ignorance by saying Genesis 14 is about tithing and it makes me ill. <br /> This is taught in seminary and why our seminaries are HUGE wastelands of ignorance of young minds thinking they are OWED.<br /><br /> I saw an article by Ken Hemphill teaching the same nonsense. (He makes his nice living off 'tithes' so it is easy to see why he teaches such drivel)<br /><br />"Abram's" 10% given to Melchizedek were the spoils of war. <br /><br />It is utter insanity what is taught out there. Please step down as an elder. You are not qualified.<br /><br />PubliusAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-6013437611426093972009-11-21T19:49:01.394-05:002009-11-21T19:49:01.394-05:00And Keith Green had a valid point! I agree with h...And Keith Green had a valid point! I agree with him.<br /><br />Here is another point of thought: If church members only gave to those in need and only to sharing of the gospel...then how would you sit in your air conditioned worship centers? How would the preschool minister get paid? How would the parking lot get repaired? How would students get curriculum, sound systems and choir books?<br /><br />JonJon Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03534018464482294481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-8968243868642624672009-11-21T17:06:55.181-05:002009-11-21T17:06:55.181-05:00Anon 11:29,
Who the heck is Barnabus? Are you...Anon 11:29,<br /><br /> Who the heck is Barnabus? Are you an 8th Day Assembly member? That might explain a lot of your biblical misinterpretations.<br /><br />JonJon Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03534018464482294481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-19650879175693660202009-11-21T16:00:48.210-05:002009-11-21T16:00:48.210-05:00Who said "If the church would do its job ther...Who said "If the church would do its job there would be no need for welfare in the country" A lib? <br /><br />No....Keith GreenAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-32425142833142374052009-11-21T13:37:41.377-05:002009-11-21T13:37:41.377-05:00To Publius, and not Publius,
I simply encour...To Publius, and not Publius,<br /><br /> I simply encourage you to write down your first name so that it is not confusing - I am not looking to unmask you or make you step out into the light - only to make it easier to respond and to help in the psychological ease of lessening your vitriol. But your choice.<br /><br /> My point is to remind you that the fulness of the Word is important and significant and still the Word of the Lord (Col 1:25)<br /> My point is that so many NT people have cheapened grace so much (like Bonhoeffer said) to say that there is no cost in discipleship or followship. I see your ilk constantly - that they are now free to do what they want. And freedom has nothing to do with that.<br /> The law and grace principles is the reason for the cross, the necessity of the cross, and now our life through the cross.<br /> Jesus came as a fulfillment to the law - the "overturned" law is accurate, but again only 1.5% of the Old Testmaent was overturned by the light of the new, better way.<br /> So many today, and seemingly on this blog today, want to say "we no longer have to give!" which is now seen in the emerging churches "we no longer have to go and serve in churches, that is so old law" which is close in the next generation to "homosexuality is fine" - it is only an abomination in the OT.<br /> Many of you are on a slippery slope to say that tithing is not relevant any more. I believe that Prov 3:9-10, Prov 22:9, II Chron 31:5, Mal 3:8-10, which speaks of offerings as well, are all still valid truths in the New Testament Age of Grace! NONE OF WHICH ARE OVERTURNED BY JESUS, PAUL, JOHN, OR PETER. <br /> Before the law was written, Abraham and Jacob tithed (Gen 14 and Gen 28).<br /> <br /> I only offer th 25% leading by the Holy Spirit to let you know that I don't hold the 10% as a dime for every dollar in the NT, but that the Lord puts those amounts on my heart. I did not violate Matt 6 as one person has said - you still don't me. And believe it or not, the Lord already knew I was doing it!<br /><br />JonJon Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03534018464482294481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-43573231710561600632009-11-21T11:34:22.127-05:002009-11-21T11:34:22.127-05:00As more and more people understand that there is n...As more and more people understand that there is no tithing in the NT, only cheerful generous giving to other believers in need and spreading the gospel, more and more church leaders are becoming scared to death. You can hear it in their comments and rebukes. <br /><br />Their gravy train might be cut off.<br /><br />We might just decide to help a single mom believer instead of giving it to a building and those who want to live off the offerings of others.<br /><br />They do not like that because they want to control your giving.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-56551590654260682522009-11-21T11:29:22.107-05:002009-11-21T11:29:22.107-05:00"The Lord has led me to give 25% of my gross ..."The Lord has led me to give 25% of my gross to the Lord through His church every week. Since you don't know my last name, I can express that to you.""<br /><br />You are not anonymous to the Lord. He knows you are bragging here.<br /><br />I have visions of you sitting at a desk calculating your 25% down to the penny. And feeling very righteous about it.<br /><br />So every week you are led to give 25% on the gross. That never changes? What are you giving it to? To maintain a building? Pay staffers to lead you in worship? Buy new carpet for the Sanctuary? A better sound system? And, of course, a bit left over for missions and maybe some benevolence. Most of us know how it works.<br /><br />But it only proves that the Law is a poor substitute for the Holy Spirit who cannot lead you in giving when you are calculating your 25% on the gross week after week.<br /><br />That might be low for what the Holy Spirit has in mind. Who knows? He might want you to sell your estate like Barnabus.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-58772208250963353592009-11-21T10:24:59.804-05:002009-11-21T10:24:59.804-05:00"It is 100% the Lords and we are simply stewa..."It is 100% the Lords and we are simply stewards of what He provides. Hence the problem. You are a pride problem."<br /><br />Since we are to be good stewards, the last person we should give it to is Mac.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-29598672023425565152009-11-21T10:23:13.066-05:002009-11-21T10:23:13.066-05:00First of all, Corinthians is a response to many qu...First of all, Corinthians is a response to many questions and Paul is explaining here a request for a special offering for the Saints in Jerusalem who are being persecuted. He mentions the church in Galatia giving, too.<br /><br />The translators chose the word 'order' as in command but the Greek is diatasso which means to arrange thoroughly, i.e. (specially) institute, prescribe. It can mean command as in commanding the process.<br /><br />But Paul did persuade the Body's of Christ to help other believers. This particular offering/collection is mentioned several times in the NT.<br /><br />So, what is the first day of the week? You are proscribing Holiness to a day. He was prescribing this day because since it was Sabbath most would not be working and could take up the collection.<br /><br />He is also saying this so that there would be no "collections' when he comes to them. It would be done.<br /><br />Read this in an interlinear to help you understand the context. This is not a command to tithe. This is a response to questions and how to arrange the contributions.<br /><br /><br />") You finally support my point...10% in the OT (and yes farmers and animal herders paid a different amount) is but a wise starting point in the NT. The Lord has led me to give 25% of my gross to the Lord through His church every week. Since you don't know my last name, I can express that to you."<br /><br />You have just violated Matthew 6<br /><br />") You incorrectly state though that the tithe is tossed in the NT. In law we call it, "A priori" (ahead of experience), couldn’t we assume a law is in force until specifically abolished? Why do you think Mr Anon that tithing is no longer God's directive for us as His followers?"<br /><br />First of all, the Cross tore the temple veil in two and the Law was fulfilled. A few other reasons:<br /><br />1. The Christians had no priest to present the tithe to.<br /><br />2. They had no temple storehouse to keep it in.<br /><br />3. The 'temple' is now our hearts thanks to the Cross.<br /><br />We are to give cheerfully. And we are to give to help one another and to help those who are spreading the Gospel.<br /><br />Giving in the NC has nothing to do with fancy buildings and large staffs. It has nothing to do with giving to maintain a church building.<br /><br />PubliusAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-43530715618772083422009-11-21T10:22:55.392-05:002009-11-21T10:22:55.392-05:00"once again, I encourage you to come out of h..."once again, I encourage you to come out of hiding and at least give us a first name. I did."<br /><br />What difference does it make who I am? Will that change the process of debate for you here? Or, would it be easier to attack the messenger? Just call me Publius.<br /><br />"Let me help you understand some my points with scripture - there are certainly some that you do not understand."<br /><br />If you are teaching tithing in the New Covenant, it is only proof you do not understand the Word.<br /><br />"1) There is not a context problem with Jesus's words to the Pharisees. People who cry "context!" really are crying "I don't like that verse!""<br /><br />That is ad hominem. Not liking the verses Jesus speaks to the Pharisees has nothing to do with the fact that he was pointing out their sin to them not teaching us to tithe as was required in the Old Covenant Law. Jesus did not teach his followers to ignore the Law during His ministry. But I cannot use the shaming of the Pharisees as contextual proof we should tithe as in the Old Covenant.<br /><br />" Of course many of the words that Jesus spoke to the Pharisees are relevant and applicable to NT believers...I already gave you examples of that."<br /><br />You are teaching like a Pharisee by teaching tithing in the New Covenant.<br /><br />"2) You are really uninformed on Paul's instruction for giving. Let me quote it for you since it is an unfamiliar passage to you. I Corinthians 16:2, "On the first day of every week (Sun) each one of you is to put aside in keeping with his income (an amount or percentage) and save, as he may prosper (so that God might bless) so that no collection will be needed for me." Does that help Mr. Anon?"<br /><br />Here is the passage and this is instructive for all readers to see why context is so very important:<br /><br />1 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given orders to the churches of Galatia, so you must do also: 2 On the first day of the week let each one of you lay something aside, storing up as he may prosper, that there be no collections when I come. 3 And when I come, whomever you approve by your letters I will send to bear your gift to Jerusalem. 4 But if it is fitting that I go also, they will go with me.<br /><br />Publius<br /><br />Cont...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com