tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post7923411377910613734..comments2024-03-23T22:54:58.661-04:00Comments on FBC Jax Watchdogs: Three Cheers for William Thornton of Baptist LifeFBC Jax Watchdoghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comBlogger68125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-78482276578264348592009-08-17T16:16:01.551-04:002009-08-17T16:16:01.551-04:00Anon 12:23
You are so right-on. They're like...Anon 12:23<br /> <br />You are so right-on. They're like dope-addicts when it comes to money.<br /><br />Just gimme a little more (sucker), just a little more.<br /><br />And all the gravy-trainers (family, consultants, etc.) are just as disgusting. Go get yer own jobs, ya sychophants!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-55199970357465914192009-08-17T12:48:15.864-04:002009-08-17T12:48:15.864-04:00Can anyone show me 2 cents worth of difference bet...Can anyone show me 2 cents worth of difference between national secular politics and church politics? Or church politicians!!! The backroom deals and compromises prevail in both arenas. I know God must be very sad to see His church desert Him.<br /><br />If you are "up" today, doesn't mean a thing. You can be "down" tomorrow. Depends on who has the most power in the struggle. And who makes the best "deals". But you members keep giving and pay for it all.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-74993949132835251682009-08-17T12:31:38.091-04:002009-08-17T12:31:38.091-04:00Anonymous said...
And how much money do you whini...Anonymous said... <br />And how much money do you whining malcontents give to the poor? As usual, you just gripe about the pastor's salary and in reality you are worse.<br /><br />August 17, 2009 11:26 AM<br />===============================<br />My gripe is not about salary if it's earned but the "search committee" hired a preacher & wife to be gone more than present viewing "Historical Sights" in other countries on the pretense of mission work . . .one thing spoken from from the pulpit is saying that we at FBCJ is not a "Micky Mouse Club, as it's not, it's a Country Club!<br /><br />For your information, we give an abundance to the POOR - especially to the POOR MISSIONARIES in the field who have to shoulder two jobs - one to do their work and the other to raise their funds to stay in the ministry.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-85608765047847377182009-08-17T12:27:25.822-04:002009-08-17T12:27:25.822-04:00Man would I love to have that mailing list of over...Man would I love to have that mailing list of over 26,000 gullible people who think by giving to me and my budget they are giving to the Creator of the Universe. Imagine how much I could con out of them. hee hee hee I bet that is one closely guarded list. tee hee heeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-54651181816910975252009-08-17T12:25:48.369-04:002009-08-17T12:25:48.369-04:00The comments I copied and pasted are from this pos...The comments I copied and pasted are from this post of Pastor Wade Burleson:<br /><br /><a href="http://kerussocharis.blogspot.com/2009/08/grace-and-peace-to-you-geoff-hammond.html" rel="nofollow">Grace and Peace to You Geoff Hammond</a>.<br /><br />I do not know who JM is.<br /><br />Also one of the comments pulled material from this post of Les Puryear:<br /><br /><a href="http://lesliepuryear.blogspot.com/2009/08/namb-coup-detat.html" rel="nofollow">The NAMB Coup d'état</a>.Rameshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09728392311602332613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-72741021593118774292009-08-17T12:23:45.194-04:002009-08-17T12:23:45.194-04:00Hmmm...let's see...give more money to a $15 mi...Hmmm...let's see...give more money to a $15 million dollar budget to pay Maurilio for his Vegas shows and 7-head shower...and the pastor's son, and the pastor's wife, and to promote Danube River cruises, and to pay for more advertising on TV and radio to steal sheep OR...give to the ministries that are actually ministering the gospel in word AND in deed? Let me pray about that one for awhile!<br /><br />I wonder what "da book" says I am to do?<br /><br />And I think I will tell my boss that I am 5% under my budget and ask him to give me more money this year. It is so much easier to ask others for it. Just look at GM, Obama, City of Jacksonville, and others. "hey I have an idea, no matter how much we take from these poor folks, let's overspend, live large, than we'll go back to them and tell them we just have to take a little more. We'll call them fees, or taxes, or tithes. Man this is great. Ask and ye shall receive...but very addictive and insatiable appetites are formed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-55761957389674236592009-08-17T12:17:01.180-04:002009-08-17T12:17:01.180-04:00And how much money do you whining malcontents give...And how much money do you whining malcontents give to the poor? As usual, you just gripe about the pastor's salary and in reality you are worse.<br /><br />August 17, 2009 11:26 AM<br /><br />__________________________________<br /><br />anon 11:26 a.m. - thanks for all your recent posts. It just shows you have no true reply to the concerns here. All you can do is try to change the subject to how much money some anon blogger gives to the poor. Sorry, go start a blog about bloggers that are soliciting funds from church members but are not giving to the poor. This blog is about a millionairre preacher with an insatiable appetite for MORE MONEY!<br /><br />And thanks for keeping the pot stirred up here. We love responding to kool-aid drinkers like you. It gives us a chance to keep re-focusing the issues on Millionairre Mac.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-44617692627662093542009-08-17T12:00:00.639-04:002009-08-17T12:00:00.639-04:00TP,
Where can we read JM?
DenTP,<br /><br />Where can we read JM?<br /><br />DenAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-23371186841938031162009-08-17T11:50:07.356-04:002009-08-17T11:50:07.356-04:00Thy Peace blog....Reiteration of church political ...Thy Peace blog....Reiteration of church political goings on... WOW, Can they get any more spiritual?<br /><br />Now you have a larger example of what so many members have experienced at the hands of "so called pastors". And many of you enablers and staff members that support these pastors can see (and fear) what happens if you get on the wrong side of a pastor. It makes no difference how long you have served. Once you "cross" the big guy or the big guns, you are history. And in this political arena it has been magnified. How can this stuff be from God. It isn't!!!! It's all about money and power!!!!! Us lowly little church members are just flys to be swatted out of the way while the ingratiating, smiling pirate continues to rule. Some really have to compromise to be big guys today. Do these callous leaders of churches today think they are fooling God? Do they really think they will be able to explain their actions that hurt so many church members, to God? Is it no wonder that God says He will spue this Laodicean church out of His mouth. Just sign me "sick of churches and preachers".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-16956094259720220182009-08-17T11:46:15.035-04:002009-08-17T11:46:15.035-04:00And how much money do you whining malcontents give...And how much money do you whining malcontents give to the poor? As usual, you just gripe about the pastor's salary and in reality you are worse.<br /><br />August 17, 2009 11:26 AM<br /><br /><br />Luke 12<br /><br />47 And that servant who knew his master’s will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few. For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-9638532574863280282009-08-17T11:26:00.895-04:002009-08-17T11:26:00.895-04:00And how much money do you whining malcontents give...And how much money do you whining malcontents give to the poor? As usual, you just gripe about the pastor's salary and in reality you are worse.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-89082466757207510042009-08-17T11:10:30.442-04:002009-08-17T11:10:30.442-04:00FBC Members - don't listen to Tom. Please giv...FBC Members - don't listen to Tom. Please give that 5% shortfall. I am hungry, naked and poor and that $750,000 shortfall will go a long way to ministering to me and my friends who Jesus loves. Mac has a heart for those homeless, hurting people outside his door. He suffers for the hungry in our city, the poor and sick... Oh please give so Mac can get some of that money out of the church members wallets and to us. Thank you, Mac, for your leadership in getting God's people to give more to help us. I will be watching the front page of the Times-Union for the news article about how much you are helping our city with these funds.Poor, widow, orphannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-24166450077943711002009-08-17T11:07:11.708-04:002009-08-17T11:07:11.708-04:00IF Mac took a pay cut to come from Dallas, would y...IF Mac took a pay cut to come from Dallas, would you be impressed if you later found out he was given a $307,000 land gift within three weeks of his arrival. No pay cut in reality, just greed and misleading the people, no matter how great or small his actual "salary" is.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-46388011754273639872009-08-17T09:51:30.916-04:002009-08-17T09:51:30.916-04:00"Retirement plans in most churches do not exi..."Retirement plans in most churches do not exist for the pastor like the ordinary worker." <br /><br />I do not think you read my comment. This is not the case for SBC pastors.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-62087405872740917552009-08-17T09:49:37.129-04:002009-08-17T09:49:37.129-04:00"Someone please ask how a man who gave $0 dol..."Someone please ask how a man who gave $0 dollars to Annie Armstrong last year can actually lead the charge in the firing the man hired to lead NAMB. Why would he be allowed to speak in the meeting? Why is he SBC president? The reason is as plain as the nose on your face."<br /><br />Our association newspaper listed each person on the GCR task force and listed next to their church the percentage given to the CP. <br /><br />Most were 1% or under. <br /><br />And these are the folks making recommendations for the future of missions in the SBC?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-79255123432724026662009-08-17T08:47:22.016-04:002009-08-17T08:47:22.016-04:00Anon 11:51....There is NO RISK involved...the reti...Anon 11:51....There is NO RISK involved...the retirement pay comes out of the general funds given by the members. This is sometimes, another "monetary figure" the members know nothing about. Most members are unaware that a "previous pastor" is still on the payroll in the form of "retirement compensation", or whatever other term is used. When a church runs behind on expenses and maintenance of buildings and revenues are insufficient then special donations are called for in order to catch up. If that doesn't work then employees are retired early, let go and not replaced, otherwise then the borrowing of funds occurs. But, what bank would allow a loan when the church is running deficit after deficit year after year?<br /><br />Retirement plans in most churches do not exist for the pastor like the ordinary worker. The ordinary worker puts something aside monthly into a plan....the pastor normially does not as it is a "perk" or an "incentive" to bring him to the church. It would be better for every worker to put part of their salary into a plan including the pastor whereby they would share equally. Unfortunately, that will not happen as the pastor is put on a higher plain. Its similar to icing on the cake, it makes it more appealing and so much harder to resist!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-22307000351317542522009-08-17T06:58:38.106-04:002009-08-17T06:58:38.106-04:00-----------------------------------
PastorJohnFr s...-----------------------------------<br /><i>PastorJohnFr said...<br />direct quote from another blog on the subject....not saying who has the better blog but i thought some would like to see it. This isn't from me.<br /><br />"NAMB Trustee Meeting, August 11 2009<br /><br />Called into Executive Session by Tim Patterson<br />Fellow trustee called for President Hammond to remain in the room since he is the president of NAMB<br />Barry McCarty, SBC Parliamentarian, called that motion out of order<br />Several other trustees pressed for Hammond to stay<br />McCarty ruled against all requests/motions<br />Hammond supporters were kept at bay<br />Hammond and others left the Day Auditorium<br />They were never invited to return<br />David Doverspike, attorney for NAMB remained in the meeting<br />Johnny Hunt, SBC President; 3 NAMB Senior Strategists; 2 NAMB Team Leaders spoke to the Trustees<br />Towards the later part of the afternoon, it was clear that Hammond supporters did not know what they could do any more<br />Hammond would need to resign, and that was clear for Culbreth since he was senior assistant to Hammond<br />When asked about Reid and Pickett, a trustee said “let me go check”<br />That trustee came back and said “I’m sorry to tell you this, but they want you all to go”<br />Not one of the 4 had a chance to hear or answer any charges/accusations against them<br />Hammond asked to speak to the trustees, to share something from his heart. Said he would not be negative or throw anyone under the bus. He was denied that opportunity.<br /><br />Ted Traylor was quoted last week as saying, “the trustee system works”. Guess it does when you can figure out the parliamentarian loophole that keeps those being questioned from being present. Even if it is the president of the entity.<br /><br />Tim Patterson, in his address to NAMB staff Wednesday morning said, “God is leading these four men elsewhere”.<br />To my knowledge, these 4 men have no idea where they go next. They would say that God called them to NAMB. Tim, don’t speak for God on their behalf. You did not even let them speak on their own behalf."<br /><a href="http://kerussocharis.blogspot.com/2009/08/grace-and-peace-to-you-geoff-hammond.html?showComment=1250470153722#c5050648063358747263" rel="nofollow">Sun Aug 16, 09:49:00 PM 2009</a>.<br />-----------------------------------<br />JM said...<br />They also took Geoff Hammonds keys for his company car as they led him out of the building. He had no ride home! He had to call someone to take him home! What is this? Who does this kind of stuff? Apparently Hunt has never heard of WWJD. I am however certain that no other president of an institution within the SBC has EVER been treated as poorly and ungodly as Hammond. I think it would be helpful to Hunt and the others involved in this Kangaroo Court to be reminded of the Golden Rule. It's not enough to just know about it but LIVE it. The power that they used to slash the heart and passion of this man and his dream to lead this mission sending agency is breath-taking and shows a tremendous lack of discretion, grace, and willingness to wait on God. They bullied, controlled, usurped, and plotted. I've seen these kinds of behaviors in political parties, ruthless backroom board meetings, and churches that have a small controlling group who desire to kick the pastor out because he doesn't do what they say. Be careful, it will come back to you.<br /><a href="http://kerussocharis.blogspot.com/2009/08/grace-and-peace-to-you-geoff-hammond.html?showComment=1250478539837#c4868998915110325962" rel="nofollow">Mon Aug 17, 12:08:00 AM 2009</a></i>.<br />-----------------------------------Rameshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09728392311602332613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-36574183658116908592009-08-17T06:57:14.355-04:002009-08-17T06:57:14.355-04:00Why am I not surprised? This is SBC, business as u...Why am I not surprised? This is SBC, business as usual ...<br />-----------------------------------<br /><i>JM said...<br />Wade,<br />The truth is often hard to swallow. Unfortunately for members of the SBC we are finding ourselves hijacked by a political elite "good old boys". <br /><br />These are facts, not gathered from bloggers but first hand from multiple sources:<br />1. Geoff had no opportunity to refute or give rebuttal to the accusations made about him. Was there not a single member of the trustee board that recognizes the Matthew 18 principle?<br />2. Three of the five execs that spoke against him came from Johnny Hunts church. They had been in discussion on these matters with Johnny for months. This was a planned strategy to take Hammond down because of his SUCCESS. His success got in the way of the plan by Johnny Hunt, Ted Traylor, Danny Aiken.<br />3. Tim Patterson, chairman of these trustees is a pawn who has been courted by Johnny and others to do what they want. He has been on the NAMB board for 11 years during which he has been in a thorn in the flesh of any success at NAMB. The meeting of the trustees was called to handle the issue of Tim Patterson spreading rumors and negative accusations then running to the press with them. He was garnering support and talking to them about firing Hammond. How does a trustee board that gave Hammond a 100% vote of confidence just TWO MONTHS earlier request his resignation based on conversations with a few disgruntled execs? None of it makes sense. <br />4. Someone please ask how a man who gave $0 dollars to Annie Armstrong last year can actually lead the charge in the firing the man hired to lead NAMB. Why would he be allowed to speak in the meeting? Why is he SBC president? The reason is as plain as the nose on your face. There is much to be gained by getting rid of NAMB and joining it with the IMB then DISPURSING the money to other SBC Institutions such as SEMINARIES. The amount of money involved in this transaction is astronomical. <br />5. Please ask Johnny Hunt and the rest of these men who led the charge against Hammond how many friends they have hired for their church staffs and why this hiring of people you have worked with previously is now considered negative? The reason for the roll-over of long time execs against Hammond is because they wanted the top spots. I believe that Harry Lewis had his own hat in the ring for President before Hammond was hired. <br />6. Watch out Morris Chapman! You are next! They don't like you because you are standing in the way of their plan. Watch out Jerry Rankin! You better work out that retirement because they want to fill your position. In fact, it's already been promised to a certain mega church pastor. <br />7. Little churches across SBC America, stand up, speak up, and push them to be accountable! Don't let them have their power and money. Don't give it to them!<br /><a href="http://kerussocharis.blogspot.com/2009/08/grace-and-peace-to-you-geoff-hammond.html?showComment=1250286883174#c2702372882159342864" rel="nofollow">Fri Aug 14, 06:54:00 PM 2009</a></i>.<br />-----------------------------------Rameshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09728392311602332613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-18484957265302727892009-08-16T23:51:46.122-04:002009-08-16T23:51:46.122-04:00"Some churches also continue some type of com..."Some churches also continue some type of compensation of a former pastor, as part of a generous but draining package, that over a period of time can become a real burden on a church"<br /><br />That does not need to be the case in the SBC at all. Guidestone. They can take the retirement investment risk like the rest of usAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-54622686536118797342009-08-16T23:39:17.625-04:002009-08-16T23:39:17.625-04:00Well, we know how much pastors at FBCDallas were p...Well, we know how much pastors at FBCDallas were paid in the 1980's. Thanks to Joel Gregory's book.<br /><br /><br />Project that out to when Mac was there. If he makes 300,000, he took a cut in pay to come to FBCJax.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-58031660633470858362009-08-16T23:36:19.279-04:002009-08-16T23:36:19.279-04:00People will NEVER get straight info from the power...People will NEVER get straight info from the powers at some churches. Just won't happen! Whether it concerns money, direction of the church, etc. Many leadership decisions are made up as a situation evolves. Usually at the guidance and discretion of the pastor. Previous guidelines and by-laws aside. Professionals in business usually have a five year plan. Some churches plan depends on the whim of leadership, power, and how the money filters in.<br /><br />In some churches the true finances, such as the pastors salary and other expenditures, perks, etc., are not disclosed to members. If these facts were known, there is the possibility of a "financial giving revolt" which of course would upset things tremendously.<br /><br />Some churches also continue some type of compensation of a former pastor, as part of a generous but draining package, that over a period of time can become a real burden on a church. Especially, if another pastor comes and goes, then another. Soon much money goes into paying pastors that are no longer part of the existing church. This could be why some in a churches leadership "put up" with a current pastor more than necessary, because they can't afford to "buy him out", so to speak. This works for many a current pastor. He gets what he wants either way. This is why "lucrative packages" and contracts should not be promised to a preacher, to get him to come to a church. After all, isn't he supposed to be led of God to serve as God calls him? Not as the money, benefits, perks and compensation contracts call him? My opinion, as I see these situations.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-12256992646840084972009-08-16T23:13:36.481-04:002009-08-16T23:13:36.481-04:00So why don't you quit playing word games and e...So why don't you quit playing word games and either go yourself or have one of your friends (assuming you still have some at FBC, Jax) meet with one or more of the trustees and find out the truth. <br /><br />You obviously do care about Mac's salary because you bring it up all the time. And I'm sure the explanation that its not near $300,000 won't suffice for you.<br /><br />After your personal description of your duties and activities at FBC, Jax I can understand why you really don't anything as fact. But then conjecture is probably your premier spiritual gift.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-7490512927500322042009-08-16T22:09:24.364-04:002009-08-16T22:09:24.364-04:00That mean ol Mac! I have just got my little feelin...That mean ol Mac! I have just got my little feelings hurt and that name calling is going to cost the Church Fifteen Thousand Dollars. But I am right and I am bitter and I hate that ol preacher at FBC. You know how sensitive I am.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-88170855213903609272009-08-16T21:43:59.764-04:002009-08-16T21:43:59.764-04:00How do I know this Anon isn't from Jax, or kno...How do I know this Anon isn't from Jax, or knows very little of FBC Jax?<br /><br />Because he refers to people on the "personnel" and "budget" committees. <br /><br />None such committees exist within the bylaw structure of FBC Jax.<br /><br />And neither is there a "finance" committee. <br /><br />There once was a "finance committee", but that function now is within the trustee body, and the pastor appoints the trustees. That change occured in the December 2007 bylaw changes.<br /><br />About me claiming I was "such an active and contributing part of FBC." I don't recall making that claim here on the blog. But I was a very average member of no particular significance. My family attended very regularly, I taught 6th grade Sunday School for about 6 years, my kids were very active in all of the youth programs. My wife was more active than I, serving in various middle school roles. So yes, I was "active" and I tried to "contribute" to my church. Not sure what your point is there.<br /><br />And I really don't care what Brunson earns. Besides, that issue was settled last year. He told Brumley that his salary is not "anywhere near $300,000". So I guess that answered the question on "salary" once and for all.FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-2923772271738867322009-08-16T19:37:42.540-04:002009-08-16T19:37:42.540-04:00If I give to the NAMB with the funds directed at t...If I give to the NAMB with the funds directed at these folks, how much of it will they actually see???<br /><br />August 16, 2009 3:32 PM<br /><br />That is the question Mary Kinney addresses in her book, Spending God's Money. She worked at NAMBAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com