tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post8398913664134713961..comments2024-03-23T22:54:58.661-04:00Comments on FBC Jax Watchdogs: "The Crystal Campus" - How Does One Know If It's God's Will?FBC Jax Watchdoghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comBlogger161125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-23041904093976699872010-05-26T21:04:23.827-04:002010-05-26T21:04:23.827-04:00So FBC Dallas must do all it can to "attrack ...So FBC Dallas must do all it can to "attrack the younger generation -- that statement makes me just sick! I always thought that the purpose of a Bible-believing pastor and church was to attrack the lost to faith in Jesus Christ.<br /><br />W.A.Criswell once said that the pastor is to preach the Word and the people would come back and back. He said -- what if I were up here preaching chemistry, history a liberal sermon, etc., in no time at all the place would be dead, empty, and sterile. (I can't remember his exact words, but along those lines.)<br /><br />I just got mail from the church FBD in which Jeffress said "We have far surpassed what any Protestant mega-church has ever given to any project in the history of Christianity." Also, he said "This is a tremendous thing God has done. This will be more than one acre of environmentally-friendly green space, a fountain, multi-level parking, an educational building and a new worship center equipped with a sky bridge." Then the new mayor, Tom Leppert, added what he felt. "When you think about the Arts Center, you think about this investment and what we're trying to do to make downtown Dallas more livable." Well,I personally feel nothing but disgust about all this.<br /><br />I joined FBCD back in the 70s and loved the preaching of dear Dr. W.A.Criswell, and the wonderful old church (not a monstrocity), the warmth of the people -- and the church was packed in balcony and the lower floor. The people were there because Criswell was preaching the gospel. He even preached out of the King James Version and refused to have "Rock music" in the church. I hate to say this, but Dr. Jeffress is nothing more than a charlatan, and try as he might -- he will never begin to be a soul-winning pastor like W.A. Criswell.<br /> <br />Should anyone be interested, please listen to Dr. Criswell's sermon, entitled "The Curse of Liberalism." It is featured in the Criswell Sermon Library. The Sermon Library contains about 3000 sermons. Well, he was for sure one of the very last Old-Time Religion Pastors. Oh yes, why is the word "church" being replaced with the word "campus"? Campus sounds so New Age. We are surely living in the Laodecia church age.<br /><br />MarciaMarciahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18343294425297817940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-91060279405532293762010-03-29T21:30:13.271-04:002010-03-29T21:30:13.271-04:00"There is a way to approach him that will tur..."There is a way to approach him that will turn him off."<br />March 29 8:12 PM<br /><br />I'm sorry but that statement describing your pastor does not sound like a servant-shepherd. If he is not willing to hear out all his people, he is making a huge mistake. Who knows if the Lord is trying to warn him through some of those negative people he doesn't want to listen to.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-37434731315001588452010-03-29T20:52:49.369-04:002010-03-29T20:52:49.369-04:00My perception is that Robert is more focused on th...My perception is that Robert is more focused on the Young Marrieds than the middle age to older adults. But he's not alone is that. Every pastor we've had in the past few have done the same thing. I am now in the age group that would not be considered the "future" of the church, although I once was in the Young Adult group and raised children in the church. Believe me no one in authority cares what we think. Among my friends there is a lot of opposition. <br /><br />I've been in the church long enough to have known Robert when he was in high school. And no, I have not approached him about this. I don't consider him approachable. I was in the elevator with him in CEB one Sunday morning. He had his "body guard" with him and spoke to only those in the elevator he knew, with not even a nod toward anyone else. Someone here who is in favor of the building said that Robert is not a "people person". Beats me why someone who is not a people person would want to pastor.<br /><br />Again, I am not opposed to the building per se. I think has appeal (except for the auditorium, don't like it even a little and I agree that something has to be done about our current facilities. I disagree with collecting pledges and going into debt and with the fact that this whole thing was conceived in secrete. I am opposed to any man being the CEO pastor of the mega church corporation. That's not who Baptists are.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-21841693701797363622010-03-29T20:12:22.511-04:002010-03-29T20:12:22.511-04:00I am not big money or staff, just a young family.
...I am not big money or staff, just a young family.<br /><br />I have seen Robert deal with those that disagree and he listens to every word and has made changes because of some of the comments. He does not respond well to complaining, which is different than construction critism. There is a way to approach him that will turn him off. Have you even approached him?<br /><br />Sorry, should have been more clear on the we, in that comment I was referring to my wife and I. However I am not aware of but a few that are not on board. I am younger and have young children with more coming which does define who I talk to and we are excited because the youth and childrens facilities now are depressing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-54330883980102808082010-03-29T19:56:27.461-04:002010-03-29T19:56:27.461-04:00"I am there and have been involved in a few o..."I am there and have been involved in a few of the conversations and decisions." <br /><br />I am there too and no one has involved me in any conversations or decisions. I can't imagine how you got in on the conversations and decisions unless you are one of the big money people or you are staff who has Robert's ear. By and large, he doesn't care what any of the rest of us think. No one has asked, and no one is listening. I'm grateful to be able to blog here just to be heard even if it doesn't count.<br /><br />"He believes this is God's will for our church and so do we."<br /><br />Not sure who "we" in in this last comment. There is plenty of opposition but since no one is listening you are pretending it's not there.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-36599123033929251622010-03-29T19:44:26.973-04:002010-03-29T19:44:26.973-04:00Anon from the first post 3/23 8:12
Been reading s...Anon from the first post 3/23 8:12<br /><br />Been reading since I posted the first one and while I have seen alot of good points made most of it has just been critism.<br /><br />I would say to those that are unhappy enough to post some of the things here that you really should search out another church. This is not meant as a my way or the highway but while there are groups of disenters for sure the vast majority is all for this.<br /><br />I have yet to see a option provided, we are dying on the vine and mush of it is facilties. As pointed out here we have other issues just like any church of size but the building is a huge part of it.<br /><br />Are we suppose to leave well enough alone and just let this entity die? I mean this, it is a real option. There are plenty of good churches in the area and maybe FBCD has lived out its life.<br /><br />I do not believe all debt for a church is bad, we have a very healty balance sheet and to leverage a very small portion of it is being a good steward with the assets.<br /><br />The building is nice as it should be, are we suppose to skimp on every dollar when building God's house. I realize many of you feel this is Robert's house for his own ego, you are welcome to your opinion and can even see how you would come to this however I am there and have been involved in a few of the conversations and decisions. He believes this is God's will for our church and so do we.<br /><br />I have no issue with outsiders commenting on our program and I wish you all the blessings He can provide you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-1093096020421239642010-03-29T17:21:28.674-04:002010-03-29T17:21:28.674-04:00"He's all knowing, all loving, all seeing..."He's all knowing, all loving, all seeing! But somehow, he needs money! He just can't handle money!"Johnny D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17141127764617679586noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-40381176282364399852010-03-29T09:58:01.436-04:002010-03-29T09:58:01.436-04:00Anon 11:52 - I agree. What a Passion Play. We watc...Anon 11:52 - I agree. What a Passion Play. We watched it Friday night (on the Internet of course!). Way to go Whitmire and all of the choir and orchestra. Everything blew me away...one thing that always impresses me about Luke Whitmire playing Jesus is how they throw him around and he doesn't actually get injured. They violently throw Jesus down the stairs, and backwards to the ground. Amazing.<br /><br />As I was watching it, I couldn't help but think of Bellevue where Whitmire came from, and they cancelled theirs this year for some lame excuse of "retooling" it. <br /><br />Wasn't this year's Jax Passion Play a new one? Weren't new scenes and new music put in to it? And they didn't have to take a year off. Wow.<br /><br />Again, my hat is off to Whitmire and all media and musicians and actors involved.FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-25621682991176246262010-03-29T09:13:20.951-04:002010-03-29T09:13:20.951-04:00It reminded me that it's not the paid CEOs tha...It reminded me that it's not the paid CEOs that make up a church. It's the faithful, hard-working members who give countless volunteer hours in service to our Lord !! They are the ones who will hear "Well done, good and faithful servant."<br /><br />March 28, 2010 11:52 PM <br /><br />It's also the talents of Jim Whitmire who was unceromoniously<br />booted out of our former mega shortly after the new pastor arrived. Jim was part of the old and the old had to go, don't you know? This year our former mega is not having a Passion Play after several years of low attendance. They say they are regrouping, seeking creative ideas for something even better for future performances. I will say that now I am in a small church, the Broadway type productions no longer appeal to me. However, I do know someone whose blinded spiritual eyes were opened at one of those Passion Play performances and they were gloriously saved and that's what it's all about.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-44459360446687191942010-03-29T09:11:40.273-04:002010-03-29T09:11:40.273-04:00As I looked around the auditorium, I couldn't ...As I looked around the auditorium, I couldn't help but notice that it was 90-95% full, as in the years right after it was constructed in the 1990's.<br />___________________________________<br /><br />It's called a "reunion" - former members bring their children to witness a wonderful educational experience. FBCJ is known for giving great performances. The shameful part is that attendance is only up when a costly production is exhibited - this is not a regular attendance count. <br /><br />Sure the high costly CEO's are feeling their oats and hoping they will be able to keep it 90 to 90% full. Will they show up again? <br /><br />Time will tell - but for sure the former members who came was for a courtesy visit only. The good old days are gone - to many great churches popping up throughout the city who have duplicated the talents of the downtown church - it's no longer the 90's.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-63295302109032864832010-03-28T23:52:30.299-04:002010-03-28T23:52:30.299-04:00Dr. Dog -
Somewhat off topic: I attended this...Dr. Dog -<br /><br /> Somewhat off topic: I attended this year's Passion Play at FBCJ tonight, and it was the very best, most moving production the church has ever done! <br /><br /> As I looked around the auditorium, I couldn't help but notice that it was 90-95% full, as in the years right after it was constructed in the 1990's.<br /><br /> I was very, very encouraged to see so many longtime members taking part in the production, and how many visitors were present.<br /><br /> It reminded me that it's not the paid CEOs that make up a church. It's the faithful, hard-working members who give countless volunteer hours in service to our Lord !! They are the ones who will hear "Well done, good and faithful servant."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-84965095017167316442010-03-28T21:17:27.676-04:002010-03-28T21:17:27.676-04:00The lost in Dallas.
March 28, 2010 6:25 PM
It ta...The lost in Dallas.<br /><br />March 28, 2010 6:25 PM<br /><br />It takes an expensive fancy building to do that? How shallow.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-56957741217694682122010-03-28T18:40:56.171-04:002010-03-28T18:40:56.171-04:00"Your question is valid and should be asked o..."Your question is valid and should be asked of many. For us leaving (voting with our feet somebody said) is the only option for us. <br /><br />March 27 8:22 PM:<br />As a word of encouragement - we had to make a decision to leave our mega after many, many years and it took courage and conviction to walk away from the church we loved, leave close friends who chose to stay, and leave the familiar. It took 2 years but we are now members of a small but growing church with a pastor who is humble, has integrity, loves his people and feeds us the Word of God with power and grace. We are finding we are enjoying the simplicity of a small church fellowsip without all the bells and whistles we had grown so accustomed to over the years. The majority of our congregation is made up of those who have left megas where they could no longer go along to get along. Spiritual conviction must take priority over the comfort of the familiar and even sometimes friendships. When God leads us out, He has a divine purpose and we just have to trust Him. Obedience always precedes blessing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-73214309379107416662010-03-28T18:25:18.316-04:002010-03-28T18:25:18.316-04:00Who are you all trying to impress?
March 28, 2010...Who are you all trying to impress?<br /><br />March 28, 2010 6:22 PM<br /><br /><br />The lost in Dallas.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-53842596558000903732010-03-28T18:22:06.937-04:002010-03-28T18:22:06.937-04:00Thank you for stating a clear truth.
I know Dr. J...Thank you for stating a clear truth.<br /><br />I know Dr. Jeffress and he would agree completely.<br /><br />March 28, 2010 4:38 PM<br /><br /> If that were the case, he would not be proposing such a monstrosity and you would not be supporting it. Quite frankly, you would most likely not be there at all if you were immersed in the Word with the Holy Spirit teaching you the truths. You would not be able to stand it there with the shallowness. <br /><br />Who are you all trying to impress?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-74342400958908015152010-03-28T16:38:36.716-04:002010-03-28T16:38:36.716-04:00"It is much safer for you to also study deepl..."It is much safer for you to also study deeply on your own."<br /><br />anon 3:22<br />Thank you for stating a clear truth.<br /><br />I know Dr. Jeffress and he would agree completely.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-32044630415637890012010-03-28T15:22:09.550-04:002010-03-28T15:22:09.550-04:00If anyone focuses on a human...maybe it is because...If anyone focuses on a human...maybe it is because that particular human is focused on the LORD and HIS WORD!!!!!!<br /><br />March 28, 2010 11:05 AM<br /><br />Jesus Christ sent us the Holy Spirit, not just 'pastors'. If you are not a new believer, you probably do not need the third party mediator approach to understanding the Word. WE are all to study and share with one another. We are to check one another's teachings as in being Bereans. That includes the "pastor". Especially the pastor. He churns out sermons for a living and that can start to be a 'job' instead of on his knees each time asking for wisdom and truth. It could also be he is downloading them from the internet. And some are even selling their sermons to other pastors. <br /><br />It is much safer for you to also study deeply on your own.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-12229964430267024452010-03-28T11:05:45.547-04:002010-03-28T11:05:45.547-04:00Anon 9:42. You are right in the sense that a forme...Anon 9:42. You are right in the sense that a former pastor who was humble and called of God to perform a work may be difficult for the pastor who replaces him. We don't live in the Kingdom of Heaven yet, therefore, we within the last two hundred years have selected a leader driven church establishment. Sorry to admit but many arn't doing a very good job.<br /><br />If anyone focuses on a human...maybe it is because that particular human is focused on the LORD and HIS WORD!!!!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-40693811366212916282010-03-28T10:01:02.660-04:002010-03-28T10:01:02.660-04:00I don't think Dallas 2:48 was saying that Jeff...I don't think Dallas 2:48 was saying that Jeffress (or other current mega pastors) <i>have</i> to live up to the legacy of former pastors like Criswell, Lindsay, etc. 2:48 said "I am sick of seeing vain leaders rip and tear at great institutions <i>in the name of</i> running from the ghost of a past leader."<br /><br />In other words, this current brand of mega pastor uses building projects as a way to distance himself and establish his own legacy; to remake the church under his regime so that it might become known as "Jeffress' church" rather than "Criswell's church." It's not a pressure put on the current pastor by the membership, as Jeffress or Brunson might want you to think. The majority of the membership is willing and ready to embrace some changes. Instead, it is a pressure <i>claimed</i> by the current pastor as a justification for the changes he wishes to enact -- as 2:48 aptly said, guys like Jeffress and Brunson enacting their agendas "in the name of running from the ghost of a past leader."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-63015196150784424502010-03-28T09:42:01.971-04:002010-03-28T09:42:01.971-04:00"The problem comes for them, as you say, when..."The problem comes for them, as you say, when they must live up to the ghost of the pastor that has passed.:<br /><br />Does anyone see the problem with this thinking? Why is this? Because we focused too much on the human who proceeded this human?<br /><br />Why is the Body about the personality and actions of one human? <br /><br />We focus on the human instead of Christ.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-70131523581147472842010-03-28T09:03:51.029-04:002010-03-28T09:03:51.029-04:00Dallas: I think most mega members have experienced...Dallas: I think most mega members have experienced the cold calculating, career driven pastors, at one time or another. Some are better "actors" than others and can get by with a pretense of smiling and caring while plotting how to "get rid of someone they don't like, behind their back. They must survive against everthing. Their "ministry" is tantamount. And as you say they are surrounded by an elite circle of admirers and yes men. The problem comes for them, as you say, when they must live up to the ghost of the pastor that has passed. Most of todays mega men can't do it. The are plagued with the ministry that God ordained and blessed in the past pastor. We were blessed with the Lindsays. Dr. L., Jr., was a very shy person one on one. But his kindness to everyone was sincere. Even with this shyness while taklking to people, when he started preaching Gods Word he became a lion in the pulpit. He preached as the saying goes with Holy Boldness. Truly a God Called preacher. Most people knew that his decisions were based on much prayer and time spent with Jesus. If he did not have an answer immediately he waited for the Lord to move, then he moved. We all loved him, trusted him and MISS him. Yes, it is very hard for the others to live up to the ghost of pastor past.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-51460231198069341392010-03-28T08:35:54.017-04:002010-03-28T08:35:54.017-04:00Dallas 2:48 AM: How accurate your conception and a...Dallas 2:48 AM: How accurate your conception and analysis. Strange are the personalities of these celebrities. The question of whether or not it is Gods will to build more edifices to man, should be enlarged to question whether these "ego-ridden prima donnas" were ever God CALLED to the ministry in the first place. Answer that and you answer most questions and problems plaguing our churches today!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-12190749206535767352010-03-28T02:48:24.886-04:002010-03-28T02:48:24.886-04:00Another sad FBCD member here. I have been reading...Another sad FBCD member here. I have been reading the WD for years now, and your attention is very appropriately focused on FBCD. Most of the member comments above are dead-on. Jeffress is a heavy handed CEO who only pays attention to the top few percentile of givers. I know for a fact he meets routinely, one-on-one with big givers. We give more than most but not in the 6 figure range so neither he nor the staff have time to acknowledge us little peeps. The little peeps however are awake, and quickly losing interest. OK by me, I have never been into sucking up to the preacher.<br /><br />Brunson started off well at FBCD but his anger got out of control and the brow-beating grew to be overwhelming. Somehow we all knew he would leave and we could go on to more peaceful times. Jeffress is different in that he is cold and calculated. Not a people person. Only interested in the church as it is a good brand and platform for his media broadcast and ego. He is only interested in growing the church in that it will protect his media perch. Thus he will try every gimmick aside from the one thing that works. Building relationships! There, he will struggle. Not comfortable enough around people. Strange but true.<br /><br />It is true that most organizations are a reflection of their leadership. The membership has steadily declined and Jeffress writes off the people who have moved their membership as people who left years before he arrived. It couldn't at all be because of him? We were told that the children's department would "explode" starting in October - of last year. Last Sunday evening the preschoolers sang and it seems to get smaller every time I see them. Pitiful actually. The children's dept seems to grow smaller and smaller too despite plenty of polished six figure staff who are loyal - to Jeffress.<br /><br />FBCD is not withering because of old buildings. It is withering because the leadership is negative. People are sick to death of showbiz, and media hype, and consultants, and 'campaigns' and celebrity, and spin. The last place they will tolerate it is in the churches. And I, for another, am one of them. I am sick of seeing vain leaders rip and tear at great institutions in the name of running from the ghost of a past leader. The pastors at most megas today are not pastors. They are well coached religious executives surrounded by an elite circle of admirers and handsomely paid yes men. Oh, and the 'snow storm' last week that cratered the budget was three inches of wet snow on the eastern side of the attendance zone that fell while the temparatures hovered around 32. For those of you in Florida, this means the roads never even freeze. And by noon the temps were in the forties and most traces were gone. Walter's boss should be ashamed for the directive on that e-mail.<br /><br />My family has not yet voted, but the exit stratgey is in place. We are starved and I just don't know how much longer I can participate with a straight face.<br /><br />Dear God, please send a revival of grace, humility and servanthood to our church leaders. Bring us all closer to you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-83726642058576451812010-03-27T23:36:26.733-04:002010-03-27T23:36:26.733-04:00"And we cannot forget that our First Baptist ..."And we cannot forget that our First Baptist Academy that cannot even make ends meet with reduced enrollment will enjoy a new facility and gym."<br /><br />It's my understanding that FBA will be housed in the refurbished Spurgeon Harris Building. If you go to their web site at fbacademy.com you can see the artist's conception. Looks like the 505 building will finally be gone and the area will become the playground and drop off area. If the teachers have to take their kids to the new building for PE, that means a long walk and lots of time. And you have to think about how difficult this will be in bad weather and will children as young as 5 years old.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-66037028895699225722010-03-27T20:57:11.596-04:002010-03-27T20:57:11.596-04:00Anon 1:53 pm. Well said.
Only whats done for Chr...Anon 1:53 pm. Well said. <br /><br />Only whats done for Christ will last and it certainly is not big buildings or budgets!!! Jesus said a glass of water is far better and you would be rewarded for providing that. There is no rewards given out for buildings of any kind whatsoever in the scriptures. All buildings will be destroyed when Jesus returns.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com