tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post8609917286732096409..comments2024-03-07T00:24:23.674-05:00Comments on FBC Jax Watchdogs: Nothing Like the Pious to Tell You They Are Praying for You, the Lowly Tax Collectors and Critical BloggersFBC Jax Watchdoghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comBlogger48125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-9607622031128164832013-11-22T10:40:36.930-05:002013-11-22T10:40:36.930-05:00Wow, talk about blatant commonplace general accusa...Wow, talk about blatant commonplace general accusations and conclusions. How about this gem: "That's the point - we are ALL evil."<br /><br />Ouch. That's bad, bad news. WE are ALL E-V-I-L!<br /><br />I can't help but wonder if we discard that one single notion, do we need religion at all?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-40642969257510566002013-11-21T09:17:39.074-05:002013-11-21T09:17:39.074-05:00COOL that there is a lot of discussion however I p...COOL that there is a lot of discussion however I personally am "lost in the weeds" trying to follow it.<br />May I attempt to bring it back around to the original points?<br /><br />I THINK the problems are...<br />1) It was written w an unclear intent. Those who havent experienced mega church drama probably read humbleness/love simply cause they cant imagine it could be otherwise while those who have are perceptive as to it and read more carefully.<br /><br />2) It really is generic dribble like soooo much of the stuff written/spoken today that passes for educated speech/thought. AND that adds to the unclear intent. Could have been said... We are all sinners. We all have people we dont like. Get over it and pray for them cause some people dont like you either!<br /><br />3) FBC picked it up and ran with it even though those of us who have sat under Mac Believe he is WAY more educated than to think highly of this piece...at least w/o some clarification of his own. So why run it...intent?<br /><br />Ill finish w this. I Think we as christians should live to be as crystal clear as possible which sometimes makes for a difficult life IE Guarding and Clarifying our speech, doing without stuff/vacations/toys, doing the ministry stuff no one else wants to, etc. But "lay up your treasures in heaven...".<br />The writer has been called upon to Clarify the intent... And as long as he does not (which should have been done in the piece) he... I Think...is wrong and I Think...in sin.<br /><br />Thoughts??<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-77397898622102294442013-11-20T14:21:19.355-05:002013-11-20T14:21:19.355-05:00"To the blogger and most of the commenters, t..."To the blogger and most of the commenters, these people are not just sinners. No, they are Satan in disguise. They must be crushed."<br /><br />How did you come to that conclusion? Where is that stated specifically or are you judging motivations again?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-86075881756267580052013-11-20T14:19:50.462-05:002013-11-20T14:19:50.462-05:00"Dare I say that I see a lot of hate?"
..."Dare I say that I see a lot of hate?"<br /><br />Didn't you condemn judging motivations earlier in your comments? <br /><br />So how were you able to come to the conclusion that these unidentified comments were inspired by hate without judging the motivation?<br /><br />That type of charge is generally issued as an intimidation tactic to try to censor dissent.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-72263331891154493592013-11-20T14:12:51.844-05:002013-11-20T14:12:51.844-05:00"Absolutely what Adam and Eve did was evil. T..."Absolutely what Adam and Eve did was evil. That's the point - we are ALL evil."<br /><br />This seems to contradict your earlier comment. Please explain.<br /><br />"It seems to me that in your estimation, these people are not just misguided, they are EVIL."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-5229221262393005322013-11-20T14:10:52.106-05:002013-11-20T14:10:52.106-05:00"Reasoning and reading comprehension deficien..."Reasoning and reading comprehension deficiency detected."<br /><br />"If you need further clarification, don't hesitate to ask."<br /><br />Arrogance and a massive ego detected. <br /><br />Yes, being defensive and not wanting to admit a mistake is commonplace, isn't it?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-33149657809010130442013-11-20T12:17:56.147-05:002013-11-20T12:17:56.147-05:00"I don't see the spirit of love and gentl..."I don't see the spirit of love and gentleness on this blog" So then what you are saying is that Jesus was wrong in the way he dealt with the Pharisees and false prophets?<br /><br />"Dare I say that I see a lot of hate?" This is just one of the areas that you lack discernment and don't have a clear understanding of things.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-19119093465074979542013-11-20T10:47:12.689-05:002013-11-20T10:47:12.689-05:00Absolutely what Adam and Eve did was evil. That&#...Absolutely what Adam and Eve did was evil. That's the point - we are ALL evil. We have to constantly remind ourselves of that lest we start thinking we occupy some moral high ground. Jesus is the only legitimate moral high ground, for anyone. <br /><br />It is right to call out sinful behavior, but I don't see a spirit of love and gentleness on this blog. Dare I say that I see a lot of hate? To the blogger and most of the commenters, these people are not just sinners. No, they are Satan in disguise. They must be crushed. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-54497017414984872092013-11-20T10:39:16.634-05:002013-11-20T10:39:16.634-05:00Reasoning and reading comprehension deficiency det...Reasoning and reading comprehension deficiency detected. I said that his specific actions, i.e.,lying about being a former jihadist and creating a false testimony for personal gain, are not common, but that being defensive about sin is universally commonplace. <br /><br />If you need further clarification, don't hesitate to ask. My point is, yes indeed, what he's doing that people have condemned him for is "commonplace."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-83890415859143808022013-11-20T09:07:15.726-05:002013-11-20T09:07:15.726-05:00"I don't think I said anything which coul..."I don't think I said anything which could reasonably be interpreted as an assertion that Caner's specific conduct is "commonplace." However, what is indeed very commonplace, indeed universal, is the tendency of sinful man to refuse to admit sin, even to himself/herself, and to often be very aggressive in doing anything and everything possible to avoid being found out. So in this regard, yes, what Caner has done and is doing is universally "commonplace." (see generally the story of Adam and Eve)."<br /><br />In the span of 3 sentences you go from denying that you stated his actions are commonplace to stating that his actions are indeed commonplace. Which is it?<br /><br />"often be very aggressive in doing anything and everything possible to avoid being found out."<br /><br />It's too late for that my friend.<br /><br />"see generally the story of Adam and Eve"<br /><br />Didn't God call their actions evil in that case?<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-87900043019281436782013-11-19T22:31:52.136-05:002013-11-19T22:31:52.136-05:00Paul asked for prayers in being bold in his chains...Paul asked for prayers in being bold in his chains and good at communicating the Gospel. Don't forget Tom, its not always about admonishing. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-51489912778614560772013-11-19T21:40:06.824-05:002013-11-19T21:40:06.824-05:00"well I believe that is exactly the type of j..."well I believe that is exactly the type of judgement that Jesus warned against." Well, that's your choice to believe that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-53417330269116976232013-11-19T19:38:52.558-05:002013-11-19T19:38:52.558-05:00Well I believe that is exactly the type of judgeme...Well I believe that is exactly the type of judgement Jesus warned against. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-48028745024070361712013-11-19T19:18:47.842-05:002013-11-19T19:18:47.842-05:00Anon Nov 19 1:04 PM Yes, I have the God given ab...Anon Nov 19 1:04 PM Yes, I have the God given ability to "judge" others by their actions and what comes out of their mouths. People who believe like you try to silence the truth for whatever your agenda is. <br /><br />"These are conclusive statements that communicate a certainty about those in question" Yep, and I'm certain I'm seeing things correctly.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-76212535101889414332013-11-19T17:15:26.795-05:002013-11-19T17:15:26.795-05:00Statements like "anybody in ministry is far f...Statements like "anybody in ministry is far from humble" and "personal agenda hidden in plain sight" go well beyond perception. These are conclusive statements that communicate a certainty about the intention of those in question. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-9506077303983285262013-11-19T17:00:31.905-05:002013-11-19T17:00:31.905-05:00"You seem to say here that fabricating a fict..."You seem to say here that fabricating a fictitious background and expounding it from the pulpit for a decade is common place.<br /><br />And that the usual response to being found out is anger, denial, and attacking those who dare to tell the truth about you.<br /><br />The definition of "misguided" according to the dictionary is:<br />Based or acting on error; misled"<br /><br />I don't think I said anything which could reasonably be interpreted as an assertion that Caner's specific conduct is "commonplace." However, what is indeed very commonplace, indeed universal, is the tendency of sinful man to refuse to admit sin, even to himself/herself, and to often be very aggressive in doing anything and everything possible to avoid being found out. So in this regard, yes, what Caner has done and is doing is universally "commonplace." (see generally the story of Adam and Eve).<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-38146058569536735752013-11-19T16:48:38.135-05:002013-11-19T16:48:38.135-05:00"I was not judging motivation, I was sharing ..."I was not judging motivation, I was sharing my perception. I think there's a difference."<br /><br />I believe that's what WD was doing as well.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-15066442006996950942013-11-19T16:00:40.656-05:002013-11-19T16:00:40.656-05:00Anon 2:53 PM
I said "seem" and I though...Anon 2:53 PM<br /><br />I said "seem" and I thought this was clear enough to imply my own fallibility. Please note, I was not judging motivation, I was sharing my perception. I think there's a difference. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-33802569074744549992013-11-19T15:57:20.820-05:002013-11-19T15:57:20.820-05:00Glad to hear there is no root of bitterness Tom. Y...Glad to hear there is no root of bitterness Tom. You and I have corresponded offline a few times and I have experienced similar issues with a SBC megachurch but not to the same extent as you. For example my own Pastor has me blocked on Twitter and no one from the church has ever reached out to me as to why. If I am out of line and need correction you'd think they would shepherd me. But no. Of course I can't get close enough to him to ask. I have sent emails and received no response. I am left to assume that they don't won't talk to me because I will ask questions they cannot answer. I know I struggle with bitterness towards the MOG and I may have assumed you do too but I don't think I was acting as a Pharisee. I am trying to forgive for my own sake. We are still at that church because it's complicated but we are pulling away slowly. So, I am not without experience in this area but I don't react to that experience by making blanket statements about all clergy or SBC as some of your posters have. I still think we are called to rise up and absorb it when people sin against us where we can. Our tolerance levels differ based on our experiences and our spiritual condition but our ultimate goal should always be to represent Christ well as much as it depends on us.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-6700482546937612962013-11-19T15:02:57.916-05:002013-11-19T15:02:57.916-05:00"It seems to me that in your estimation, thes..."It seems to me that in your estimation, these people are not just misguided, they are EVIL. Yes, it troubles me deeply that Ergun Caner lied about his background, seemingly for his own self-promotion, and has not, at least publically, repented of it."<br /><br />You seem to say here that fabricating a fictitious background and expounding it from the pulpit for a decade is common place.<br /><br />And that the usual response to being found out is anger, denial, and attacking those who dare to tell the truth about you.<br /><br />The definition of "misguided" according to the dictionary is:<br />Based or acting on error; misled<br /><br />Is that really what happened here?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-47345667606023048122013-11-19T14:53:13.790-05:002013-11-19T14:53:13.790-05:00"I'm sorry but I really don't follow ..."I'm sorry but I really don't follow your train of thought but I am amazed at your apparent ability to perceive the motivation and know the hearts of others."<br /><br />Followed by this statement:<br /><br />"The tone and spirit of the site does not seem to be intended to build up the body of Christ."<br /><br />Sounds like you are judging WD's motivations here, but that would be hypocritical considering your first statement. Please explain.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-61201477786967477912013-11-19T13:29:59.341-05:002013-11-19T13:29:59.341-05:00I can assure you, no root of bitterness to be remo...I can assure you, no root of bitterness to be removed...but perhaps you need to get that plank removed out of your eye.<br /><br />:)FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-45905281278853884152013-11-19T13:27:57.853-05:002013-11-19T13:27:57.853-05:00And I'll add that unless you've seen what ...And I'll add that unless you've seen what I have seen and what others have experienced that dare publicly question and criticize religious men and their institutions, and have seen first hand what pious religious men and women - both lay and professional - are capable of doing to you and lying about you - you won't understand my view on Dan's article. To publicly and sometimes harshly criticize a "man of God" is about the worst thing that a Christian can do these days.FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-40638014254613263202013-11-19T13:27:07.047-05:002013-11-19T13:27:07.047-05:00I think we are dealing with 2 different questions ...I think we are dealing with 2 different questions here and we need to do a bit of "exegesis" as it were.<br /><br />1. What did the author intend when he wrote it?<br /><br />2. What did FBC Jax intend when they posted it?<br /><br />Considering the history with Tom and FBC Jax I can understand the concern. I just think you should leave the author out of it. FBC Jax may have simply "picked up" his story for their own reasons. The comments about bloggers are actually minor when considering the scope of the article but very well may have been the main reason they decided to share it. Only God knows for sure. <br /><br />Either way, it's a minor offense. You could have absorbed this one Tom. You really need to do something about that root of bitterness, for your own sake. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8384632623933772727.post-48539863342531562692013-11-19T13:14:51.651-05:002013-11-19T13:14:51.651-05:00Anon - thanks for sharing your view.
I did send ...Anon - thanks for sharing your view. <br /><br />I did send a short email to Dan Darling asking for clarification, but to date have not received a response.<br />FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.com