It's official: Mac is the Jeremiah Wright of the Southern Baptist Convention. We can now call him Jeremiah Brunson. Maybe Jerry Brunson for short.
I'm trying my best not to think Mac is a false teacher. I'm trying hard to view
him as just a preacher who has an anger problem who likes really nice things and who tries to manipulate his congregation by stretching the truth and scripture every now and then. But then he goes and says something like what he said Sunday night and I then have to wonder how this guy is even in the Southern Baptist Convention, how this guy ever landed a preaching gig paying him hundreds of thousands of dollars per year...and I wonder did he really did get a doctorate degree from SWBTS. Have we checked this guys credentials?
Mac was preaching Sunday night October 12, 2008, that God's goodness to us is God's way to get our attention, but if God's goodness doesn't do the trick, then God resorts to purposely seeking ways to hurt us.
According to Mac, all that America has suffered of late: 9/11, Hurricane Katrina, an oil crisis with $4 a gallon gasoline, and an economic crash - its all caused directly by God in an attempt to punish us for not responding to him during times of blessing:
"You think God hadn't been actively doing something? God says 'I've been active all this time. I've been active putting into place all these things [referring to 9/11, Katrina, oil crisis, economic crash], I've been actively seeing how high I can get gasoline for you Americans, I've been actively seeing how I can cause the economy to crash because if you will not turn to me in my blessings on you I will take them away as Hosea took away the blessings of Gomer."
Mac isn't saying that God can teach us some things through these difficulties. Mac isn't saying that God might allow these things to be used to draw people to him...no, Mac is saying God is actively, purposely, CAUSING, God is the AUTHOR, God is bringing into existence all these things as punishment for us not turning to him when he gives us blessings. Even worse, MAC IS SPEAKING ON BEHALF OF GOD...Mac is presuming to know what God says about these events, Mac presumes to speak the mind and heart and will and intent of God.
This is heretical. This is abusive. This is cultish. This is dangerous. For a man to speak as though he speaks on behalf of God and tells his followers that God is ACTIVELY PUTTING INTO PLACE terrible events in our lives is to lead his followers astray, trying to implant an irrational fear of God, seeking to distort their view of God's role in the affairs of man - this is dangerous stuff.
But this is Mac's view of God. Its not the first time Mac has given us his dark vision of who God is and how He deals with us. Mac believes that God is waiting to "Zap" us. I blogged about Mac's distorted view before. Click here to listen to Mac explain that God is waiting to "zap" Christians. This is consistent with Mac's preaching on giving. He doesn't preach giving out of love, but out of fear of God and duty to Old Testament scripture.So let's deliver the message to all of Jacksonville - we have the answer for all of that ails our economy and world - straight from God's lips to Mac's ears - the rotten economy is not the result of Barney Frank and Chris Dodd and people taking mortgages out that didn't pay them. Its God! God is doing it to us! Hear that Jacksonville! Hear that recalcitrants?
Our new chorus:
Humility, I'm convinced is the key to christian virtue. Less quick to blame others for problems or take credit for success. At the same time it is not a trait that vacates vision or leadership.
ReplyDeleteJesus did not demand respect or perks or any of the the trappings of authority and used it in submission to the Father. Repeat, All.vlkx
Humility is a mark of great leaders and great Christians of all vocations. It also is the often-cited character of Christ, whom we should and desire to follow.
These paraphrased words of Gary Ledbetter should serve as gentle guidance for all.
Perhaps a sequel to the book "Spending God's Money: Extravagance and Misuse in the Name of Ministry" is in order, as it would disclose the culture of privilege.
ReplyDeleteThe author could address megachurches and their abuses of tithes, offering, and gifts given in good faith, but not used to the Glory of God's Kingdom.
Two megachurches come immediately to mind; FBC Jax is one.
I think we wade into dangerous territory when we say that something was God's judgement.
ReplyDelete"His ways are not our ways, nor his thoughts our thoughts." We cannot totally comprehend the mind of God and it is foolish to try to speak as if we know his intentions. What we do know is that He seeks to work all things "to the good of those who love Him and are called to His purpose."
The world is not falling away. The world is the same as it always was. IN SIN. It is the churches that are falling away led by its ministers.
IT IS NOT GOD'S FAULT!!! In most cases it is consequences of our own sin and disobedience as a result of walking outside the parameters of God's word and God's protection. Don't blame God for man's choices! God gives us freedom to choose. I am tired of people blaming God; I don't like people lying about my Heavenly Father and blaming Him for the horrible things we see in the world today.
As Oliver B. Green once said, "Just as surely as God has God-called preachers, the Devil has Devil-called preachers.
Mr Brunson should remember the words he spoke Sunday Evening, Oct. 12. "Justice is getting what you deserve; Mercy is not getting all you deserve; and, Grace is getting what you do not deserve".
Allen
You should have been in Dallas last night...
ReplyDeleteJoel Osteen was here at the American Airlines Center. They charged $15/per person to get in and then took up an offering. People were walking out when they started with the offering. (Of course he only got 11,000 x $15 for the tickets...)
Maybe that would work in Jax...
If you would invest as much energy in reaching the lost as you do in spouting your self-important opinions, you would do the Kingdom of God a great service. Your constant whining is great fodder for every non-believer out there looking for an excuse to stay away from church.
ReplyDeleteDoesn't this explain why the man wanted on nationwide TV so badly? These guys have such large egos. Mac believes he knows what God says about why these things are happening to us. If you honestly believe you know what God says on these important matters, would it not stand to reason that you need to be on TV? Mac is the next Pat Robertson and Rod Parsley all rolled into one!
ReplyDeleteGod WILL bring remedial judgment in order to cause people to hear His message; and, He will bring final judgment when those people fail to heed Him. Whether or not American's current economic circumstances are either of those kinds of judgment, who can say with certainty? By itself, the present difficult situation should nudge people toward the Lord (His economy, dropped down right in the middle of the U.S. and world economy, always does fine). A believer of any vocation--preacher or otherwise--ought to be careful about speaking for God about specific conditions being His judgment. If he does speak accurately on the Lord's behalf, God probably will confirm that message somehow.
ReplyDeleteAll of these comments, still bring me back to what made FBCJAX the light of Jacksonville; which was the true purpose of the church; to evangelize the city in which is resides, love the hurting, and help those in need. It doesn't appear that we are doing that any longer. When was the last time our visitation program was mentioned? Do we still have one? I can remember when Tuesday visitation was as important as coming on Wednesdays and Sundays. I can't tell you the last time I heard Mac mention anything about getting out and attending visitation. Dr. Linsday had a simple plan, evangelize the local area. Please, please can we get back to doing that and stop worrying about the middle east and all the "secret" mission trips?
ReplyDeleteI would be suspect of anyone claiming that they hear from God. Israel did hear from God through visions and dreams but they had to have an interpreter...Daniel, Samuel, and Joseph. Today when someone claims this they are usually in a CULT!!! 7th Day Adventist, Jehovah's Witness, Christian Scientist, and the Mormons. Just look at their bibles which are all man made by the authors or founders of their religion. When the apostle John finished the book of the Revelation it was finished. There is no record of God speaking to anyone other than John directly. Those days were over. Jesus now speaks to us through the Holy Spirit and his Word.
ReplyDeleteGod has left us His WORD to guide us and no one can claim that God has given them some special PHROPHECY in this dispensation.
Heb 1:1: God, who at sundry times and in divers manner spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, vs 2: hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;.
Anon - as I have blogged before, Mac doesn't believe visitation works anymore. He said that no one is home anymore, so visitation doesn't work. That is why, he said, that a school was an absolute necessity.
ReplyDeleteReaders, I just was reading something that made me so very sad. I am was looking at the Pastor's Conference 2008 promo materials, and apparently there is an extensive advertising plan where we are trying to entice organizations to advertise at various "levels"...the highest level is an advertising fee of $12,000 and gets the "Platinum Level" of sponsorship and gets a premium booth, premium ad in the conference program, PowerPoint slide shown on the Imags in the auditorium, brochure put in attendee gift bag, hyperlink on event website, MC recognition on the main platform, 60 second video shown on the Imags, and more.
There are multiple levels of sponsorship, and if they sold them all it would near $100,000 of advertising revenue.
So don't fool yourselves FBC Jax members - Mac could not care less about feeding the poor in our city as he says on his little Salvation Army video...he and his son, the Director of Special Projects, are interested in fleecing the attendees using our Pastor's conference.
This is UNBELIEVABLE.
The money changers are in the church.
10:53. Regarding your comment about visitation. As was mentioned before in this blog a great deal of Calvinism has seeped into FBC. Calvinism believes that God will save WHOM he chooses. Therefore, there is no importance put upon mans efforts to evangelize. Thats why basically, there is not much emphasis on visitation anymore at FBC. Mac's says that no one is at home!! I would suggest the former is most likely the reason. My opinion.
ReplyDeleteThe selling of the gospel has become big business. Is this another golden nugget of the A-GROUP. Sounds like a sponsorship at the Prime Osborn Center. Home and Patio Show. This really IS SAD.
ReplyDeleteI would like to know more about these organizations and what products they were selling, so I can boycott them. It certainly does look like MONEY CHANGING.
Does anyone truly believe that FBC leadership is interested in getting people saved in the gospel of Jesus Christ being the first priority?
Is this more of the "Cutting Edge Ministry"? God help us....
from sun am- Whew ! Thank goodness our pastor is smarter than John MacArthur. That was truly humorous listening to MB correcting JM. Wonder what JM did to Mac. (besides preaching circles around him) Must be serious to mention in a sun am service. More likely he was preaching for his preacher buddies who most likely don't care for JM. Truth is one could gain more understanding of the scriptures from one JM sermon than six months at FBC.
ReplyDeleteI've said it before, that ever since Mac came here, he has viewed us as a "market" to be cultivated and developed and fleeced.
ReplyDeleteIt started with his Holy Land Trips.
He puts his family on staff.
He accepts a huge land gift from a rich member.
He takes our money to start a school.
He cuts off reward trips for middle schoolers and high schoolers as he needed the cash for other things.
He now has taken a pastors conference that was established by Dr. Vines....did you hear me...established by Dr. Vines....and he has transformed it into a money making enterprise.
Wonder where the $100,000 that Trey Brunson raised for the Pastor's Conference came last year? Likely this is Trey's brain child, getting help from the A-Group...find a way to sell advertising space!! I can't believe it. I'm not naive enough to think this doesn't happen with other Christian organizations like Promise Keepers and Women of Faith conferences...but for Christ's sake we're a church...what business do we have trying to fleece the exhibitors AND the attendees?
When will some Godly lay leaders say enough is enough?
Or are they all in favor of this?
I'll go further. We had more bible truth and exposition in two David Allen sermons last week than one year of Mac Brunson.
ReplyDeleteAdvertising in the church!!! Every time I hear of the latest money making scheme to come along down there, I cringe. It is unbelieveable how far this church has fallen in 2 l/2 years. I am dreading to see what will be next!
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone doubt that the church is being used as a money making organization and business opportunity. The brazeness of these attempts, leave no doubt as to what the real function of the church is now.
Watchdog here is a riddle: you say:"When will the Godly lay leaders say enough is enough." Your answer is in your question. Think about it.
ReplyDeleteCheck this link of Trey's site:
ReplyDeleteSurfmayday -> Sponsorship Levels
and Click on Sponsorship Levels Tab.
Compare this with the Pastors Conference.
I am not saying it's bad, for a business. But for a Church? I understand, they need to raise funds to run the conference ... Where is Faith in all this?
If only the leadership, went back to basics or their first love of Jesus Christ. Scale down the projects. Live a simple life. Love your brothers. You do not have to impress anyone, for the sake of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Our deeds, lives, words are to be lived for Jesus Christ. I am not attacking the fbcjax administration by saying these things. I am asking them to return to their roots in Jesus, born of Simplicity, Love and preaching of the Word always, and nothing else.
God bless you all.
I would encourage the fbcjax leadership to click on the link and print this entire comment and paste it on their mirrors.
ReplyDeleteWhat to Do After Asking for $1 Million Cash -> Anonymous said ...
" ... Mac should be embarrassed but he honestly doesn't know that his lifestyle is beyond what most people could ever imagine."
And read it daily.
Sister, your comment moved me so much. It's helping me to go back to basics.
Thank you, Sister in Christ.
Doggone that pesky God. He was happy with us today as the stock market was up, and now one of you recalcitrants did something to tick him off, and now the stock market is in negative territory.
ReplyDeleteCome on people! Start livin' right so we can get those gas prices down and the stock market up!!!
Brunson detests britches worn below the waist? Really? That's what he "detests"
ReplyDeleteWho the hell cares what he detests?
Is that his job to tell us what HE detests?
I detest millionaire, obese, bald pastors strutting around arrogantly telling me what they detest, accepting land gifts living in million dollar homes and using the church's resources to paint themselves as caring for the poor while they live high on the hog off of the backs of God's people. That is what the WATCHDOG detests.
But of course that's just what I detest. You might detest something else.
I also detest asparagous. I also detest liver and onions. But who cares?
My point: we don't care Mac what YOU detest. Now if you want to impart spiritual wisdom to explain WHY we might want to take care in what we wear to help us and our youth, that would be great. Lovingly explain what standards are, and suggest what some standards might be.
But popping off and yelling what you detest.
We don't care what you detest. We want to hear from God and from a Godly man giving loving, wise counsel.
Which we can't seem to get from you.
Anybody care to tell us what YOU detest?
What do I detest. Old guys that try to lead their team way past their prime. They just can't hack it anymore. Loose a step ot two here and there. The money keeps them way too long. NFL player ??? No, Jim Whitmire. The guy is horrible at leading music... I can't take it anymore... Please Cloud Move...
ReplyDeleteI detest fake Christians blogging anonymously trying to bring about change and cause trouble.
ReplyDeleteI detest those "Barack Hussein Obamas" that like to sit behind a computer, trying to bring about change, blogging like a left wing journalist with the drive-by media.
I detest Watchdogs of all sorts. Especially, the ones who think they are financial experts, tenured theologians and just all around know it alls.
I detest dissenters, gripers, complainers, and recalcitrants.
I detests those legalists in the church who think the church is operated by an underlying sense of the law, sort of like those hypocritical Pharisees.
That is just a taste of what I detest.
I detest someone who claims not be bitter, angry, or bad--one thing Mac has never done is curse in his sermons like you just you did in your post. Funny to me you can edit your post yet you decided to openly curse in it. I am sure you will make light of it or what have you but remember brother you don't compare yourself to mac---you compare yourself to the Bible and you are letting rage and hate begin to harbor in your heart. If a non christian were to come on here and see that they would view that as acceptable for a Christian and it simply is not. You need to repent and get right---how can I know you aren't right? Because my Bible says that if you have ought against anyone---just or not---then you are unable to worship God in Spirit and Truth. You have become so obessed being a WatchDog that you have let this consume your daily walk. Do you spend as much time praying FOR Mac as you do bloggin about him---God can do a lot more than your blog---not to say he couldnt use your blog---but PRAYER is the answer.
ReplyDeleteWD:
ReplyDeleteDid you just mention obese?
Check out Mac's Guide For Pastors, page 206. "Pastor, no matter how successful you are, keep your weight under control."
What I really DETEST.... is what's happened to this church age. How the church is continuing to be used to build personal wealth and elevate a "brand". I detest how God and His word are manipulated to back up whatever Purpose Driven idea is coming forth from these pulpits.
ReplyDeleteGod has not waited 2000+ years to present the churches with a "new concept" about Himself and the gospel of Jesus Christ. So much for the new concept of "Theology Driven Ministry". This is part of the "marketing strategy" now seeping into Gods churches. I detest how the Holiness of God is marketed. How it is relegated to a secondary position, behind the profit potential of a "program oriented" agenda. I detest that the church is looked at as a commodity to be tapped into for profit. We now have Purpose Driven, Theology Driven, and PROFIT DRIVEN ministries.
I detest how God is blamed for the failures of man. It seems if the "program" does not succeed, then it's all Gods fault. God is not going to bless a "program" that is man made for profit. Many ministries have "left their first love", if they were ever called in the first place. I detest that many preachers "blame" their failuers on God first and the people second. It would behoove them to look closer to home, perhaps into themselves to see where the problems exist I detest that one position is preached from the pulpit and another is lived. As an example: concern for the poor or suffering, while living a country club lifestyle, and taking European vacations and shopping sprees then bragging about it openly. Another problem: taking large amounts of money in the form of salaries that everyone knows the church can't afford any longer, then asking for MORE money for the repairs to facilities that are long overdue. Also, asking for money for "unproven" schemes without a full discussion with ALL of the church. I detest it that there are "yes" men that have no backbone, that are so eager to be the buddy, that the church suffers for it. No one will recognize any of the above until the church is totally driven to its knees. I detest it that God is not FIRST anymore in the churches. Jesus Christ is no longer the cornerstone, He is on the outside knocking to get in to His own church. Sin is not preached against, unless it is twisted to be part of an agenda. Salvation is not preached as Calvanism has replaced this doctrine. And above all there is no sign of REPENTANCE from anything preached. I guess this will do for starters.
i detest the way every southern baptist church i've ever been in seems so adept at making fun of those who are "different" from their norm. I detest the people who say barack "hussein" obama, without realizing that its the republicans who keep using "christians" to get elected. I detest that a pastor leads the charge of making fun of kids who wear their pants down, but probably doesn't lead the charge to try to get those same kids saved. I detest that God won't allow me to say what I'd really like to say about the southern baptist church. But I've left, so it doesn't matter to me anymore. And some days, I detest myself. And when Im in the southern baptist church, those days are FREQUENT. I find I detest myself and everyone else. Its really sad.
ReplyDeleteLets Talk about this REAL quik.
ReplyDelete1st off i want to announce that i have no idea who this mac guy is, nor do i know the full context of his message.
But i will say this much, Ity isnt God's FAULT!!
BUT U BETTER BELIEVE THAT ITS HIS TOTAL HANDIWORK.
God is SOVEREIGN people. Some of you might agrre to that, but still live in contradiction. "O my God loves", "He's a good God, He wouldnt cause katrina, or 9/11 to happen"
RIIIIIIGHT! Who's in control of all the elements of the earth? Who causes the tides to crash, and every event in the world to take place?
God Almighty does. He is in total control of what had happened. But guess what??? That doesnt make him bad, NOR One we can accuse of a FAULT, He's Awesome!! He's formed everyday we are to walk in even before we were born! And the only way we can look at it in a good way is by having a deep understanding of how sovereign God really is. And when our human mind cant fathom that, thats when we go to Isaiah,"His ways are not our ways, nor his thoughts our thoughts."
Look, just a sparrow falling to the ground (a tiny bird), is God's doing, how much more the BIGGER events.
WOuld you people agree that Sodom and Gommorah are the works of God?? Or was it just the homosexuals in the city that made the place burn down??? Hmmmm!
Thats right! Just as much as the sins of the people of Sodom n Gommorah brought destruction, so the sins of the American people will be the US's downfall!
We are a fallen nation people. We're not a Christian Nation! Sure we claim that, but ....cmon! This is a whole nother blog here!
AS FOR THE CALVINIST STOMPER UP ABOVE. NO WHERE DOES THE BIBLE TELL US TO SIT ON OUR BACKS AND WATCH HOW GOD SAVES PEOPLE!!
Thats called HYPER-CALVINSM, U SHOULD READ INTO IT SOMETIME!!
Please dont get us mixed up.
God WILL bring to redemption those who He has chosen. But our ALL WISE GOD uses men like us to do the job, through the power of His Holy Spirit.
Any true Christian CANNOT deny the command of the great commission. SO i would like to ask u to please do your homework on what REAL Calvinsm is. You'll better improve your knowledge, and not seem so foolish.
PEACE ALL, AND GRACE!!!
in HIS grip- tommytenz
This is fascinating. I have never seen so large a collection of moronic, pompous, backward, uneducated mouth breathers in my life. Hilarious to read all of this. The Calvinists take the cake though. To so gladly claim god is responsible for all the horrible things in the world (literally CAUSED them) and in the same sentence claim that he is good and awesome is beyond delusion. It's more like mental retardation or out and out insanity. Good day.
ReplyDelete