Over the years I have sarcastically referred to the televangelists networks as "the hair channels" - since so many of the Christian preachers/performers seem to be infatuated with their hair styles and hair-dos just as much as they are padding their pocketbooks with donations from gullible Christians who send them their hard-earned money.I get a kick out of watching these channels from time to time as I channel surf, and this week I saw two things that were humorous, yet disturbing at the same time. One of them involves Mac Brunson on the INSP network.
The first was a clip of Jesse Duplantis. Jesse is the cajun, folksy preacher from Louisiana that preaches unashamedly a health and wealth gospel - that is HIS own health and wealth. He is so far out in his views on money and wealth accumulation for himself and his followers that I was shocked earlier this year when I learned that one of Maurilio's clients actually had Duplantis into their church to preach.
In a wonderful display of just how brazen these health/wealth preachers have become, I saw Jesse say the following (I'm paraphrasing), bragging about his wealth: "I had a man come up to me one time and say to me 'Jesse, let me shake your hand, because I've always wanted to shake the hand of a millionaire.' And you know what I told the man as I shook his hand?
'Multiiiiii' " . If you've ever heard Jesse, you can imagine him saying "multiiiii" followed with his cajun giggle. To which the other hair channel phony balonies on the stage with him started hooting and hollering along with the studio audience. Yep, 'ole Jesse is not just a millioinaire, but a MULTI-millionaire, and proud of it. Nothing wrong with being a millionaire - but from donations of Christians who think they are giving money to God by giving it to Jesse and then BRAGGING about it? Praise Jeeeesus! God will get it through Jesse if he can get it to Jesse - ain't God good!!??At Jesse's website he encourages people to become his "Partners" who will regularly donate money to his ministry. Benefits of being a "partner" include preferred seating at events, more personal prayer (Jesse will pray for YOU!), more heavenly rewards. Can you say "indulgences"?
But the next thing I saw on the INSP network was quite disturbing also.
I saw Mac Brunson delivering a sermon on INSP - pretty good sermon; but here is the disturbing part: it was obvious to me the sermon audio had been altered to include an applause track....at a point in the original sermon where Mac had only scant applause, there was edited in more rigorous, spontaneous applause. And it was so poorly edited that while the raucus applause was heard, at the same time a balcony camera shot showed that hardly anyone was clapping! There was also a portion where I believe they edited the tape to include more intense laughter at one of Mac's witty quips.
If indeed FBC Jax or the INSP folks are editing the audio tracks, how sad is that? I would think that FBC Jax would be above that sort of shameless image manipulation.
That has me wondering: who would do this editing? Do the FBC Jax media folks edit the sermons prior to sending them to INSP for airing to beef up the congregational responses? Why would they do that? Why would they alter the applause on the INSP version, but not the version posted to the 316 web site? What does this say about the congregation at FBC Jax? Are they just an audience who is expected to fork over their money to pay for INSP TV time, and to offer up their laughter and applause for Mac, and if they don't do that well enough the media bunch will "correct" that through clever audio track editing?
If indeed FBC Jax is altering the audience reaction to Mac's sermons aired on INSP, its another example of the disrespect and disdain shown for the sheep at FBC Jax by the leadership. From the accusations of them being a "hotbed of legalism", to the accusations made by Paige Patterson that Brunson never got a honeymoon at FBC Jax, to the disrespectful manner that Mac tells people they must tithe and give to his special offerings - even the praise given to Jesus that they didn't get a raise because they can't handle their finances....all of that, and now the stupid sheep don't even have the sense to know how to clap right and laugh loudly enough.
Used to be that there was a wide chasm, at least in my mind, between the hair channel televangelist ministries and our SBC mega churches.
But I'm not so sure there is much of a difference anymore.
Its all about the money and the image.
If you are dumb enough to fall for their lines then you don't get my sympathy.
ReplyDelete"I was shocked earlier this year when I learned that one of Maurilio's clients actually had Duplantis into their church to preach."
ReplyDeleteThe Watchdog.
Dr.Dog it surely does'nt surprise me that there is a relationship between Maurilio and the Pastor that allowed that charlatan Duplantis(Surplantis)to preach to anybody or anything!!!
Jesus said "you will know men by their fruit".
The Bible also says "How can two men walk together unless they agree".
Maurilio as I've blogged before is nothing more and nothing less than a fraud and an opportunist capitalizing on/with men too get rich.
Dr.Dog just analyze his blogs and notice all of the materialistic and monetary thoughts.
Again "YOU will know them by their fruits!!!
Then the next question is why is a supposed learned scholar such as Brunson associating with a deceiver like Maurilio?
Good Question Dr.Dog!!!
Anwser:::"SHOW ME THE MONEY"!!!
It's all about the money,money,and more money with these people...
In 2Pet.chapter 2,Peter clearly reveals to all who will read and heed is that the motivating factor for many of these Pastors "IS THAT THEY ARE COVETOUS"!!!
As I have blogged previously what better place to run a racket where there is money to be had with absolutely no or virtually no accountability???
Ahhhhhhhhhhh I know..."THE CHURCH"
Dr.Dog people need to stop being in awe of men on sake of celebrity and pay close attention to not only what their saying;but also to pay close attention to what they are doing!!!
Be a produce inspector and watch their "FRUIT"!!!
Be a Bearen Christian as we are commanded to be!!!
Not to split hairs (pun intended): I have always heard: A sucker is born every minute. Guess so. And another glimpse of wisdom is: Them that has gets. Dr. Lindsay a truly legitimate pastor of Gods word. Said many times; "You don't have to take the lid of the garbage can to know when it stinks".
ReplyDeleteThank the Lord, we had in the past preachers like the Lindsays who had Godly character and who LED MANY TO THE SAVING GRACE OF JESUS. Many so called preachers today don't come close. They are actors in the business.
word verification: binge
ReplyDeleteHA! Kinda like the money binges the so-called pastors go on.
It also gives us a glimpse of just where mac and maurilio are leading us. They see the multiple millions being raked in by Duplantis and others and realize, "we have just scratched the surface" of the wealth we can build off these gullible folks. They think a $300K land gift was bad, and several hundred thousand dollars of salaries for the family, that is peanuts next to what we could, and should be pulling in with a talent like mac."
ReplyDeleteThe goal is a simple one, the vision is clear = Mac cannot yet say "multi" when you shake his millionairre hand. But Soud and Davis and maurilio can, and must, help him get there. That would really show those pesky bloggers how much we adore our mac.
Well, everyone has to make a living someway and they have found their's. And quite successfully might I add.
ReplyDeleteDog, probably not what you wanna hear, but this sort of thing is just another reason not to believe. I wish I had something eloquent and timely to add to this post, but that really is the first thing that comes to mind. Sure, it's probably a bit unfair, but it is, what it is. Big golden thrones they sit on while on TV, big hair, big houses, big cars, big money...
ReplyDeleteHelp me understand, cuz I sure don't get it.
I remember some of these fellows telling the tv viewers just send me $25.00 and I will mail you a prayer hanky which has been prayer over for you. The hanky probably cost 14 cents and 44 cents postage, a nice $24.46 profit. What a deal. And there were others wanting you to mail them a check for $100.00 and they would put a brick in their building in your honor.
ReplyDeleteI do not recall Jesus ever selling hankys or bricks. He even raised the dead for free and forgave sin. These fellows need to get into another career since the Lord is not endorsed their enterprise. Also, they never preach the gospel, they just share don't you know. What a sad commentary on the church and why it is declining. The lost world does not see any good coming out of the CHURCH in our day. So sad.
THE FLORIDA TIMES UNION
ReplyDeleteASSOCIATED PRESS
9-9-09
Excert:
"Henry Lyons, currently pastor of New Salem Missionary BAPTIST Church in Tampa, couldn't be reached for comment for his request to resume leading the NATIONAL BAPTIST CONVENTION USA after serving a prison term for almost five years - claims he's a changed man who deserves a second chance as President"
Anon 12:23 . . .you words on taget when you penned "many so called preachers today don't come close to past preachers They are actors in the business."
Wolves in sheeps clothing comes to mind.
ReplyDeleteThe love of money IS Definitely the ROOT TO ALL EVIL.
ReplyDeleteJohnny D - I understand what you're saying. However, when I see these phony balonies on TV, and I compare them to the humble servant-leader pastors that I know and have known, who serve out of love for the Lord and the people in their church and for nothing else, it leads me a conclusion opposite of yours. There are many more servant leader pastors that we don't ever hear from than there are money-grubbing opportunist preachers. And the contrast is so striking that it tells me there IS a real faith in Christ to be had, and it ain't the faith that these charletons are preaching.
ReplyDeleteBelieving in Jesus has NOTHING to do with these "money minded preachers". This is what is so sad about these guys. They take peoples eyes off the Cross. Jesus died to save us from the payment for sin. This includes ALL sin. These money hungry preachers will answer one day for hurting the cause of Christ and for the number of souls that may go to hell because of their greed. They become a stumbling block to the lost. My past preacher used to say "Don't put your faith in man. Man will disappoint you every time. Jesus is the Savior not these men. Keep your eyes on Jesus! And, as WD stated there are many good and Christ centered preachers out there doing what God called them to do, leading others to the Savior. God bless them.
ReplyDeleteRomans 3:vs.22-25 "Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no diference;
vs.23: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
vs.24: Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus;
vs.25: Whom God hath set forth to be a propititaion, through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forebearance of God;".
John 3:16: "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
To Johnny D: Don't look at these charleton actors. They are not examples of Godly preachers. Believe me!!!! I am so sad to think that there are people not coming to Jesus because they see what these guys are about. Please put them aside and trust in what Jesus says in His Word. Get a Bible and read the book of John. Read it over and over, always asking God to make Himself known to you. I promise if you will do that sincerely. If you will TRUST HIM. Jesus will save your soul if you sincerely ask Him. This is far to important to let ANYTHING or ANYONE come between you and JESUS. Thank you for taking these comments to heart. I will be praying for you.
ReplyDeleteJohn chp.14: vs.6: "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."
JohnnyD,
ReplyDeleteIf there is one thing I am convinced of, it is that these televangelists and similar type pastors, who are promoters and products of the church growth movement, ARE most definitely a judgement from God.
I know many will have a fit that I said that but I am convinced it is true.
That is why I am so strong in warning folks to get out of these false churches and study the Word alone asking God to rid their hearts of all the presuppositions they have been taught that are not true.
Matt
Johnny D. (additionally) I and others that are saved, see these preachers and there actions. But, I can tell you they have no affect on my salvation. I am saved by the Blood of Jesus on the Cross. And man can do nothing to take that away or in any way change it.
ReplyDeleteJohn chp.14: vs.26-27: (Jesus said): "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your rememberance, whatsoever I have said unto you. vs. 27: Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you; not as the world giveth, give I unto you, Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid."
Acts chp 2: vs. 21: "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved".
Eph. chp.2 vs. 8: "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God:".
Thank you for your time in reading this.
The belief that people "dumb enough" to fall for the tricks these fakes play is skewed. We are all dumb enough to fall for something. Ever had a contractor cheat you? A salesman? Fall for a telemarketer gimmick? Give to a charity you later wished you hadn't? Lent a friend money who didn't pay you back? We see these guys as obvious fakes, but not everyone can. I wouldn't blame the victims. Sometimes the manipulations are subtle and sometimes blatant. The ones who are more subtle about their deception are no less guilty. I'm convinced God weeps over it all.
ReplyDeleteJesus is the example. Who washed whose feet? Jesus washed the disciples feet to teach them a lesson about servanthood. They were not to be Lords over the household of faith but servants. Isn't ironic that some pastors go all around this example. My guess is that they don't want to draw attention to their ministry and the way they treat the sheep.
ReplyDeleteThe belief that people "dumb enough" to fall for the tricks these fakes play is skewed. We are all dumb enough to fall for something. Ever had a contractor cheat you? A salesman? Fall for a telemarketer gimmick? Give to a charity you later wished you hadn't? Lent a friend money who didn't pay you back? We see these guys as obvious fakes, but not everyone can. I wouldn't blame the victims. Sometimes the manipulations are subtle and sometimes blatant. The ones who are more subtle about their deception are no less guilty. I'm convinced God weeps over it all.
ReplyDeleteSeptember 10, 2009 9:41 AM
Very true, my friend.
Satan does not show up with a pitchfork and a cup of poison for us to drink. He is described as an angel of light in the Word.
2 Corin 11
13For such men are false apostles [spurious, counterfeits], deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles (special messengers) of Christ (the Messiah).
14And it is no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light;
15So it is not surprising if his servants also masquerade as ministers of righteousness. [But] their end will correspond with their deeds.
(The whole chapter 11 is worth reading to see the difference between Paul and these imposters he was warning them about)
Matt
Johnny D.
ReplyDeleteThe Bible is not the problem!!!
The problem is always unscrupulous men/people who pervert the Bible for their own gain!!!
This should suprise no one.
The Bible from Genesis to Revelation reveal that God's people have always been plagued by false christ,false prophets,false teachers and false brethren.
Christ at the beginning of His three years of ministry in His sermon on the mount warned of wolves in sheep clothing(Pastors)who would ravage(swindle)the sheep[Matt.7:14-20]!!!
At the end of His ministry Christ again warns three times as recorded in the Gospel of Matthew chap.24:4-5,11,24 that these decievers would proliferate in the last days and successfully lead the majority of people astray!!!
The Apostle Paul warned that in the last days men(pastors especially)would become lovers of self,possessing a form of godliness but devoid of the Holy Spirit,and he commands Timothy to get away from such men[2Tim.3:1-5]!!!
Paul also warned that theses false brethren would infiltrate the true believers looking for a way to enslave them to themselves!!!
Paul again warns that we are to learn the word of God from faithful people so that we are not lead astray by false teachers with corrupt demon inspired doctrines[Eph.4:11-14]!!!
The Apostle Peter warned in 2Pet.2:1-22 that false teachers(pastors)would merchandise and enrich themselves off the people with feigned(plastic)words meant to decieve and enslave people to them!!!
The half-brother of Jesus warned that these charlatans who are lead by fleshly desires would slip in by the side door to corrupt the Word and the Church for sordid gain[Jude 1-25]!!!
Brother Johnny it's not the Bible it's these perverted men/people.
Johnny Christ will never let you down put your eyes on Him alone for salvation!!!
Do not turned from seeking salvation thru Jesus Christ "ALONE"!!!
Do what the Apostle James wrote in his Epistle "If anyone lacks wisom,let him ask God.Who gives with liberality and does not get angry when one ask[James 1:5-6]!!!
This is what I did and believe me Johnny if you genuinely ask and really want to know what the Bible really is saying God will most definetly give you wisdom!!!
I'll blog it again and I'll stand by it.
If A person or anyone who is living a life of luxury off of the people of Gods offerings/givings;
You are dealing with a deciever not 99.9999999999 of the time.
But 100% of the time without fail!!!
Please be Berean Christians!!!
To Provender, who said "We see these guys as obvious fakes, but not everyone can."
ReplyDeleteYou are right about that! Look at how many people Mac has snowed.
Since when did a minister ever need a six digit salary. The red scare strawman did its job well I gather.
ReplyDeleteSome may be legit.... I think that they only focused on the evils of Russia communism. Russia was a part of the Eastern Orthodox faith at one time. It fell into liberalism. Go look at some of Nicholas Gee paintings...they had a golden age as well. American ministers need to wake up...they are asssleeep in the light.
ReplyDelete"To Provender, who said "We see these guys as obvious fakes, but not everyone can."
ReplyDeleteYou are right about that! Look at how many people Mac has snowed.
September 10, 2009 11:07 AM
You are right Anon...
What people seem to not or don't want to understand is that a wolf is not going to come to you as a wolf.
He will come dressed as a sheep...
WHY,WHY,WHY,WHY,WHY???
To disarm.so that people will put their guards down.So that they the charaltan can gain their trust.So the better to fleece the unwary victims!!!
As Matt blogged earlier,Satan does'nt come and Identify himself as the Master of darkness and evil..
He comes as a/the light to lead people too enlightenment and a true and better way!!!
Practically every Book of The Bible deals in some way ,with false teaching,false teachers,false prohpets,and false brothers!!!
Deuteronomy chap.13:1-3 tells Israel and us that God is testing us;To see if we will blindly follow charlatans who claim to represent God,but are in fact wolves attemping to lead us away from the truth and into spiritual and financial bondage!!!
These Jesse Duplantis types and others decievers are nothing than a test from God.
Do we love the Lord our God with all our hearts,souls,mind,and strenght???
The Apostle Paul wrote;"To test all things and to whole onto that which is true"..
Paul wrote that the people of Berea were more "noble" in that they listened attentively and search the Scriptures every day to make sure that what Paul was preaching and teaching to them was in fact the "Truth"!!!
The Apostle John wrote; "Do-not believe every spirit(small "s");But to test the spirits to see if they are from God.For many anti-christ have gone out into the world"..
If we are not willing to diligently look for and spot these charlatans.
Then they will either lead people astray from the truth of Christ.
Or cause people to run away and abandon even the seeking of "CHRIST"!!!
Therefore spotting these people is extremely essential!!!
Because they are extremely dangerous!!!
Far more than dangerous I beleve than we totally understand!!!
The portrait by him on Temptation of Christ blew me away when I saw it. I kept thinking of Isaiah 51.
ReplyDeleteThe majority of people only open the Bible on Sunday. The rest of the week their Bibles just gather dust. This is the reason false preachers get away with so much error as only a few really check them out. But some are now checking them out and are finding them idle shepherds. They last for a while and then go on to other greener pastures leaving behind those that aided them in their "high calling" to face the music. Unfortunately, for these so called pastors they will be found out as their fruit is rotten. The word Laodicean comes to mind and we are in it up to our eyelids, not only from the government, but the church as well. Apostasy reigns. We hear very little on this subject anymore except for real Bible believers!!! If you know what your Bible says then you can't be fooled by the "manipulators".
ReplyDelete2 Timothy chp.2 vs.15: "Study to show theyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth".
The majority of people only open the Bible on Sunday. The rest of the week their Bibles just gather dust.
ReplyDelete- Is there any way to confirm such a statement?
This is the reason false preachers get away with so much error as only a few really check them out. But some are now checking them out and are finding them idle shepherds.
- If A is true then B must be the result. There is no hard data on your suggestions so can we assume you are willing to state they are our opinion and may not be true?
They last for a while and then go on to other greener pastures leaving behind those that aided them in their "high calling" to face the music.
- It could be possible that many pastors view church members the way you view pastors. Until there is a different love towards the enemy (for you, the pastor), it will remain (mentally) the way you describe.
Unfortunately, for these so called pastors they will be found out as their fruit is rotten. The word Laodicean comes to mind and we are in it up to our eyelids, not only from the government, but the church as well. Apostasy reigns. We hear very little on this subject anymore except for real Bible believers!!!
- So many evil preachers. Thank you for your enlightenment.
If you know what your Bible says then you can't be fooled by the "manipulators".
Translated: If you believed like I do then you would be spiritual, otherwise you are a bunch of kool-aid drinkers who are clueless and probably lost.
But being the spiritual giant you are the best way to convey the truth as you see it is to put down others.
Sheeesh, you deserve your pastor.
Bro./Pastor Rod H. said,
ReplyDelete"Do what the Apostle James wrote in his Epistle..."
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the Epistle of James writen by Jesus' half-brother James? He was not an Apostle.
Jac: I believe James and John were brothers and cousins of Jesus. This is the same James who was martyred in Jerusalem.
ReplyDelete"Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the Epistle of James writen by Jesus' half-brother James? He was not an Apostle."
ReplyDeleteSeptember 10, 2009 12:24 PM
Jac you are absolutely correct.In my haste I mis-typed.
Way to be a Bearen Christian!!!
JAC -- To respond to your comment and question and to what Pastor Rod wrote.... yes and no. You are correct in that the Book was not written by the James mentioned as "one of the twelve". This same James, brother of John, was one of the "Sons of Thunder". Most believe that this Book was indeed written by James, the brother of Christ, who was the Leader of the Church in Jerusalem. By most accounts though, he could be considered an Apostle becuase he did witness Jesus personally, he just didn't believe until after the Resurrection. Much like Paul is considered an Apostle becuause he witnessed Christ on the Damascus road. They were both men considered to be part of the Apostolic age. Hope this helps.
ReplyDeleteTo continue back on the topic of this blog post -- As one who has no vested interst in FBC Jax, my only concern and what still continues to be my only concern is that you continue to tear down at the Kingdom and not build it up. This blog along with the other one you link to the Wartburg Watch are nothing more than places where people comment, post, and tear down those they belive are not righteous enough to be Pastors in their eyes. The Bible speaks against this type of behavior.
ReplyDeleteDo I belive that fault is there on the part of Brunson and FBC Jax as well -- certainly. Both parties are at fault and you should have ended this a long time ago.
To now belive that this is your crusade against all Pastors who lead extravagant lives is just silly quite frankly.
Churches set budgets and decide what to pay their Staff. Preachers don't decide that on their own.
Give that part of your effort up. Do you have a 1st Amendment case -- probably, but quit all the food throwing at FBC Jax and Brunson.
Honor Christ -- even if you have been wronged, you are continuing to be in the wrong by your continued actions.
You are no longer a member of that Church. You are a member of the Body elsewhere. Look at how you can minister in your new Church.
Off Topic:
ReplyDeleteThe Wartburg Watch > The Two Rivers Debacle > Two Rivers Smacked With A Lawsuit.
The Wartburg Watch > Shenanigans At Lost River - The Same Old, Same Old > Good Riddance … You’re Outta Here!.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the Epistle of James writen by Jesus' half-brother James? He was not an Apostle.
ReplyDeleteSeptember 10, 2009 12:24 PM
That is not authenticated though widely believed it was James, an elder of the Jerusalem church and half brother to Jesus John Calvin and others suggested that the author was the Apostle James, son of Alphaeus.
Luther wanted to delete James from the Canon. He called it 'An Epistle of straw'
But then we would not have this beautiful passage:
13Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show it by his good life, by deeds done in the humility that comes from wisdom. 14But if you harbor bitter envy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast about it or deny the truth. 15Such "wisdom" does not come down from heaven but is earthly, unspiritual, of the devil. 16For where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you find disorder and every evil practice.
17But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere. 18Peacemakers who sow in peace raise a harvest of righteousness.
Matt
Yep. These slick, mega-church pastors are as fake as Astro-turf.
ReplyDeleteSorry about the typo. "Writen" should be "written". Sometimes when I hit the keys on my laptop, they do not register.
ReplyDeleteAnon 12:20. I challenge you on point No.1: to visit in homes and attempt to find the people that live there displaying or finding a Bible. You will have a hard time locating one. Many find it embarassing to have a Bible around or to discuss "religion". These, many times are supposed to be saved people. I find that most who don't discuss spiritual matters or the Bible don't do it because they DON"T KNOW MUCH ABOUT THE SUBJECT!!!!
ReplyDeleteNo 2. Most church sheep are gullible. They refuse to believe a negative about their pastor until they themselves are done in, or someone they know is, then they see for themselves what is happening in their church or read about it in the newspaper or see it on the nightly news.
No 3. Many are called but few are chosen. Especially in the ministry. This, as has been stated in the past, not all preachers, but enough to be a real problem. Remember the verse where some claimed they cast out demons in the name of the Lord and He said depart from me I never knew you. You must not realize it, but we are in the last days described in the book of the Revelation..... The Laodicean church age.
No 4. There are a lot of kool aid drinkers. Thats why the Lord said to be wise as a serpent but harmless as a dove. Doves have no beaks, but they can outfly hawks and eagles in any direction. Snakes cannot hear but they have excellent eyes and do not miss anything to which they are exposed. Paul addresses the last days in Thess., and so does John and Peter. Just because you don't see something that others do,does not mean that a "problem" does not exist. We have learned a lot about transparency in the arena of life, lately. Openess was to be more abundant, but guess what, it isn't. Change definitely has taken place, but I ask you is it good or bad change? Sorry that you believe the whole world is so perfect in your opinion. Possibly you are young and still impressionable. Take your blinders off and look around you. Do it objectively and you might learn that the Bible is true, especially that part where it says "all men are liars". Think, think, and think some more about what you are being told. I don't have to put down anyone, they simply put themselves out as something which they are not, and then put their feet in the tar bucket. They do it to themselves almost on a daily basis.
A couple of examples: The Word of God is not to be blasphemed. This is a command that Paul gave to Titus (Titus 2:5). Anyone who preaches what he does not practice is blasphing the Word of God.
I Tim 6:1-4 Where a servant does not obey his master with the right spirit also blashphemes the Word of God.
Lastly, Paul writes in Galatians 1:4 "who gave himself for our sins: that he might deliver us from this present evil world according to the will of God and our Father". Notice we live in an evil world not a good one. And in this world you (as a Christian) will suffer persecution. Hopefully, you will not have too much in the days ahead until the Lord's coming. Been persecuted enough thank you. Much of it at the hands of so called preachers and kool aid drinking Christians. But, my God is able!!!! And my faith is in Jesus...not any man.
Dear Scott from Texas,
ReplyDeleteSo how do you view Martin Luther? If the corruption is so bad in regards to twisting doctrine to condemn non-tithers and in flegging the consciences of the laity that if they disagree that they are diabolical then who is destoying the kingdom of God?
Dear Scott form Texas,
ReplyDelete"Churches set up their own budgets" But so often only a select few decide those salaries. I do agree the ox should not be muzzled but it should wane into luxury either.
Very touching (and unexpected) to find more than a couple comments directed my way. Thank you for your care and concern.
ReplyDeletePart of me wishes to tell you why I will never again believe, but a bigger part of me cares more for the fact that it will probably lead to many of you not liking me - not to mention this is not my blog and it would be rude, crude and socially unacceptable for such a thing here on dog's blog. Besides, I never say never. I learned that the hard way, as I can very clearly remember praying and praising Jesus with words similar to, "I love you, Jesus. I love you more than words can convey. Thank you so much for taking my place on the cross. I know too much now to ever turn away."
Yet, here I am.
As for reading the John's good news, I have - many times. Believe it or not, I have even studied that book in-depth. So, with that, thank you. Pray all you want - but do not be surprised if it does not work.
While I was running the channels on the radio the other day, I heard a song that made me stop and listen. This is a secular song but still relates to this post. Even a non-Christian band portrays the fleecing that is going on in the church today as wicked. The lyrics said,
ReplyDelete"Now a couple hours past,
And I was sitting in my house,
The day was winding down and coming to an end,
So I turned on the TV,
And flipped it over to the news,
And what I saw I almost couldn't comprehend,
I saw a preacher man in cuffs
Taking money from the church,
He stuffed his bank account with righteous dollar bills."
Wow how relevant is that?
" Besides, I never say never. I learned that the hard way."
ReplyDeleteJohnny D. an Angel name Gabriel once told a young woman name Mary who would bear the Son of God these comforting words::
"For with God nothing will be impossible"[Luke 1:37]!!!
Peace my friend!!!
Johnny D - Are you Voyager? (If you're not, you probably don't know what I'm talking about.)
ReplyDeleteScott from Texas is correct in stating that either the Personnel Committee or Budget Committee in most Southern Baptist churches set the pastor's salary. The problem on this blog is a bunch of people who are never selected to serve on a committee and are jealous.
ReplyDeleteFake preachers have been around since the beginning of time. I can well remember when the same things were being said of Jerry Vines as he paraded around the country with his oppulence and arrogance.
Methinks that Scott is on target with his evaluation of this blog and the Wartburgs.
Jealous?
ReplyDeleteOnly an arrogant conceited person who is "above others" would think that.
You know, the rich man James speaks of who gets special treatment in the church. I guess James was jealous and why would God let that jealous man have a book in the Bible? The Holy Spirit must have had a day off to allow such a thing!
BB
Scott from Texas said...
ReplyDeleteTo continue back on the topic of this blog post -- As one who has no vested interst in FBC Jax . .
NEWS FLASH!
BUT SOME OF (you) TEXAN'S FOLKS DO HAVE $$$$$ INTEREST IN FBC - PER EXAMPLE, TRAVEL AGENTS!
"Scott from Texas is correct in stating that either the Personnel Committee or Budget Committee in most Southern Baptist churches set the pastor's salary. The problem on this blog is a bunch of people who are never selected to serve on a committee and are jealous."
RIGHT! THE SEARCH COMMITTEE GAVE THE STAMP FOR FINANCIAL APPROVAL.
THE LATTER PART ON THE ABOVE STATEMENT IS THAT IF SOME OF US WOULD ACTUALLY SIGN OUR REAL NAMES YOU WOULD FIND WE ARE "not a bunch of people who have never been selected to serve on a committee and are jealous" . . .our names would be quite recognizable and the very people who have been and presently are on the "inside" and we are people who professional, respected and liked in the community.
And to you Johnny D . . .we who come on this "Open Forum" really like you. . .Keep on visiting us!
Scott from Texas, thank you, but we are doing fine here in Jacksonville and very capable of taking care of our own business as like you folks from Texas we too wear big boots and we kick back!
You wear boots and kick back? You don't even have the integrity and courage to say who you are. I doubt seriously if you are on any committee or in any position of authority. If what you say about yourself is true, then you have a church full of gutless wonders.
ReplyDeleteFake preachers have been around since the beginning of time.
ReplyDelete___________________________________
True, but none of them had, or have, blogs about them. No one blogging about Duplantis? No one blogging about Bennie Hinn? Hmmm. What is so unique about Mac and Steve Gaines that they brought on these blogs? Arrogance, brazenness, and lack of humility. No wisdom...and dare I say it...no one around (in the family home or friends or members of the church) to give them any godly counsel. They continue to dig in, proud and angry and attacking from the pulpit, rather than following Matthew 18, or saying "a kind word" or "why not rather be wronged", etc.
These megas are also so inefficient with God's money, just as the government is with ours. Think about what FBC Jax actually does as a corporate body in this city to feed the poor, shelter the homeless, help the orphan and widow. Now think about where the vast majority of that $15 million dollar annual budget ends up. (Not just Mac, but the entire staff, many who live in luxury homes and drive luxury cars and live like kings compared to most congregants.)
ReplyDeleteNow, imagine if that $15 million was divided up among area local churches who are doing real ministry but who lack funds to help those in need. 30 churches could have another $500,000 per year to do this work. 60 churches could have another $250,000 per year. Or 120 local churches could have another $10,000 per month to do real ministry!
No, these mega's are not biblical church models and Satan is very pleased. God's people are still loving and faithful and continue to give the millions, it is just that like in Malachi, we have corrupt "priests" who are robbing God.
But there I go again, bringing up the orphan and widow and hungry and poor instead of talking about parking garages and satellite campuses and TV commercials and schools.
"The problem on this blog is a bunch of people who are never selected to serve on a committee and are jealous."
ReplyDelete"Methinks that Scott is on target with his evaluation of this blog and the Wartburgs."
September 11, 2009 6:23 AM
This Anon person is either a minister;a family member of a minister;or a sheeple to a minister.
His statement reaps of partiality to minsters no matter what they are doing or what they have done.
He comes on this blog with no intelligible discourse to prove that W.D.is correct or incorrect,or the Wartsburg people are in error,or if Mac is out of order.
He apparently has no sense of discerning with Scripture as too the validity of WD's evidences or Mac's.Anon just make a vague,blank,clueless statement.
No wonder these corrupt men in the pulpits of America's church are fleecing the people.
Thank God for the honest pastors who toil in obscurity for little or nothing,but love the Lord and His people and put them first.
The people are ignorant just like this anon blogger!
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteYou wear boots and kick back? You don't even have the integrity and courage to say who you are. I doubt seriously if you are on any committee or in any position of authority. If what you say about yourself is true, then you have a church full of gutless wonders.
September 11, 2009 8:54 AM
________________________________
That's right, you would love to know who I am, but like you I prefer to be "anon" for the time being . . .as far as other "anonymous" comments coming on here defending the "Watchdog" they very well are the people who serve on the committee's and board of deacons at FBCJ. You need to understand the watchdog has a lot of friends still at FBCJ including those who serve in leadership.
Have a good day ANONYMOUS!
The mark of this blog and the Wartburgs is that they denigrate and call someone ignorant if they happen to disagree with them. Typical.
ReplyDeleteIf you are in leadership at FBC, Jax and call yourself a friend of Tom Rich and then refuse to stand and be counted--you aren't much of a friend. Or perhaps you think Tom is wrong with this blog.
Question, Anon:
ReplyDeleteIf you are not a friend of Tom Rich, and are a defender of FBC Jax and Mac, where is YOUR name? Why not stand and be counted as a friend of Mac? That is something I never can figure out - why supporters of Mac post here anonymously themselves while criticzing others who don't put their name. What on earth would be wrong with publicly taking a stand on this blog, if you must come here and post, and put your name on it? Critics of Mac have cold hard facts to back up why THEY want to be anonymous - why must YOU?
And anyways, why can't you be like the vast, vast majority of people at FBC Jax and in the SBC and completely ignore this blog? There are thousands and thousands of FBC Jax members, and millions of SBC members, and most of them never feel the need to read this blog. They love Mac and their church, and they are doing their thing.
Why can't you do that?
Why do you have to come over here to stir the pot? Don't get me wrong, you're free to come here and post anonymously all you want and criticize those who post anonymously, but its just a real head-scratcher why you do it - and why you do it anonymously.
Mac supporters - STAND AND BE COUNTED!! Stand with Bob Tebow - at least he had the guts to stand in the pulpit and openly declare Brunson to be "America's best preacher and America's best pastor". We know where Tebow stands...why don't you have the guts to do the same?
Well, well, well. Another article to go on the list of Tom's infatuations with Mac Brunson. I am beginning to think "Sociopath" wasn't a strong enough word to describe this love affair Tom has with Mac Brunson. Will it ever end?
ReplyDeleteHis house, his car, his salary, his office, his dogs, his suits, and now his sermon audio tracks?
I wonder if Tom gives his wife this much attention at home....
Cute, anon.
ReplyDeleteShows how sick YOU are.
And you call ME a sociopath?
You are the one infatuated with criticizing a blogger who points out the truth about Brunson.
But keep talking...but definitely stay anonymous, you wouldn't want anybody knowing you're questioning the "attention" I'm giving my wife.
Johnny D: Remember this that when prayer is made by two or more who gather in the name of Jesus miracles do occur. My wife and I will continue to pray for you and others we know that are not saved. It may not happen today or tomorrow or even this year or the next, it's up to you and the others if they choose Heaven or Hell. Jesus has done His part. There is nothing that can happen to a person on this earth that should separate him from the love of Jesus. We don't need to know the details that afflict your decision. Keep in mind JESUS is God He knows it all. Give your problem and heartbreak to Him. Why hold on to it by yourself.
ReplyDeleteI had a friend who accepted the Lord as his Savior when he was 62. I grew up with this young man from the 1st grade. After going into the Army and moving away myself, I had very little contact with him. Years later I learned he was dying (two weeks later he died). I spoke with him, we discussed the fact that he was still not a believer. I then, explained the love of Jesus and His death and resurrection. My friend wanted to obtain salvation and eternal life and took that leap of faith. Today that man is in Heaven. He probably would be in Hell if I had not reached out to him, and given him what ended up being his last
opportunity to make that change that can only come from within. I am not claiming any credit for this man's decision, I was merely an instrument, Jesus paid the price for it all on the Cross. And to Him goes ALL of the Honor and Glory. I will continue praying for you and I know that others will as well. One last thing, I discussed salvation with one of the most brillant (academically) men I ever knew who was not a believer. I asked him this question: what if I am right about salvation and Heaven and he was wrong (he believed death was it and did not believe in eternal life). He thought about it for awhile but still hung on to his disbelief. I have talked to him twice in the last 50 years and he is still lost. I fear for his eternity. God will not be mocked. He is God wheteher we believe it or not, whether we accept it or not. Jesus offers salvation, man accepts it or rejects it. But Jesus is STILL WHO HE IS regardles of you or I. I tell others, like I'm telling you I will continue to pray believing God will answer my prayer. To any reading this, DON'T TAKE THE CHANCE OF ETERNITY IN HELL. ACCEPT THE SHED BLOOD OF JESUS AS PAYMENT FOR YOUR SINS. IT's a free gift from a Savior that loved YOU enough to die in your place.
"The mark of this blog and the Wartburgs is that they denigrate and call someone ignorant if they happen to disagree with them. Typical"
ReplyDeleteThe mark of the Mac supporters is that they call people sociopaths and malcontents (etc) when their lies and hypocracies are brought to light. Typical.
So, if Tom just lets this matter go, then it appears he is just some malcontent who had a few questions that were ignored and ultimately, he had no conviction and gave up fairly quickly and easily. (To the delight of those who want to operate in the dark and solicit funds from the masses.) This is what pretty much every former and current staff member did, as well as many former and current members who had concerns.
ReplyDeleteYet this ONE man, if he shows conviction and persistence and an ongoing willingness to never give up in his simple efforts to have some accountability and transparency implemented (not by him or this blog, but by those who have been selected as leaders in the church), then he is called a coward and a sociopath?
Why isn't he being called a man of courage, a man of conviction, a man with a backbone for his patient persistent efforts to get the most simple responses to his concerns, even after he was identified publicly? Why didn't this coward run and hide, shut down his blog and beg for forgiveness once he was outted?
The man obviously has conviction and is not going away until some answers and transparency are forthcoming. If the church leaders (out of loyalty to Team Brunson) won't do this without a court order, so be it. The legal proceedings are already under way. But let's stop calling Tom a sociopath simply because he is extraordinarily determined to shine light on these clear financial abuses of Mac Brunson and his yes men enablers.
And no, it is not about Mac's house, car, dogs, office, etc. It is about a charlatan coming into town, and with the help of a few yes men, abusing the sheep and the millions of tithes and offerings at a previously great church so that he can enrich himself, his family and his friends.
The only ones I see that are more stubborn and more determined than the WD (and therefore more "sociopathic" per Mac) is A.C. Soud and Mac Brunson, who would rather see the church crumble to the ground than to ever answer even one concern of Tom Rich. Now even I have to admire their conviction not to respond no matter what happens to the church. But I see them more as arrogant and proud than humble and determined. Let's see how it all plays out...to the glory of God or to the glory of men.
Welcome to the junior high girls class. What a farce of a blog.
ReplyDeleteI come here because it shows me the degradation in the church today.
The biggest hypocrisy of all is for Tom Rich to say something to someone about blogging anonymously. We all know the only reason he ever came out into the public was that he got CAUGHT.
Absolutely 11:40 - Caught red-handed. Caught blogging on a blog. Nailed, busted. The gig is up.
ReplyDeleteSame with Mac and Blount and Soud and Hinson.
Caught red-handed. Caught calling the JSO with obviously unrelated "crimes" of taking pictures and stealing mail, issuing subpoenas to nail the identity of a blogger, and then handing it over to the church so they could issue trespass papers and make me pay for my blog. Caught red-handed and exposed, for issuing trespass papers against a woman in the church for no offense at all except being married to a blogger. Ouch, that hurts.
They got busted.
Then their spiritual leader got caught telling a reporter that I'm a sociopath.
Busted.
Then the respected, retired circuit judge, who everyone thought was an even-keeled loving Christian, got caught calling me a coward to a reporter.
Busted.
And they don't like it.
Then they got busted and exposed as frauds when they piously pronounced in their Deacons Resolution how they were above using the legal system to stop "unjust criticism", when just a few short weeks later they were exposed in the newspaper as having started the legal process by calling the JSO to find out who the blogger was.
Busted. Caught red handed.
Blount was caught - he took the name of a blogger that was given to him by the JSO for the purpose only of keeping an eye on the blogger...and he proceeded to give it out to 50 to 100 deacons, one of whom immediately gave it to a relative who then called my new church.
Ouch, busted.
Only difference is: I am still blogging. I was caught red handed, and the blog still goes on. And the detractors' only defense is: SOCIOPATH. UNSTABLE. JEALOUS.
On the other hand: are they still issuing subpoenas on church critics, or did they learn their lesson? Where's the deacons resolutions? Trespass papers still being issued to wives of church critics? Think we'll see Brunson popping off calling his former church members unstable sociopaths? Will Soud be calling more church critics cowards to Brumley?
I don't think so.
Because they got busted.
"I come here because it shows me the degradation in the church today."
ReplyDeleteYou are looking in the WRONG place, fool. If you want to see degredation in all its filth and mire, let me direct to you 2 Rivers, BBC and others. Or maybe just stick around FBCJ and see it live an in person from the pulpit.
If people would do a historical study on how church ledership when straying from Paul's model ont taking a money from others that he lays down as tradition in Thessaloniansm they would see how far off these fundamentalists are.
ReplyDeleteHow can we as Christians go about continually bashing each other. Read 1 Joh 3-4, heck why not the whole book.
ReplyDeleteI doubt anything I say here will change anyone's mind, but for the sake of the gospel and the character of Christians (at least what is left) why all the fighting, sinning, legal crap, ect.ect.ect! One Bride, ONE BODY, ONE SAVIOR! dont lose sight of who saved u! Who are we to curse another or bicker, we ourselves are nothing, but by God's choice we have been adopted into his family!
You sure do have your pat answers figured out don't you Tom? You're the one that got caught and you know it. It will be good if this thing ever goes to trial so you will be silenced for good. You ain't got a foot to stand on.
ReplyDeleteTo the other anon--I would be careful who you call a fool. Perhaps you are looking in a mirror at your own image.
Elisabeth, I am not this "Voyager" you speak of. I'm just me. I have a profile, and you can compare it to this Voyager person.
ReplyDeleteTo those of you that have welcomed me, and expressed your Christian love for me - thank you. Please, if you wish to converse with me, I have a profile. Let us let Dog's blog be Dog's blog.
anon September 11, 2009 1:01 PM - I agree. Why won't the trustees if Mac won't do it himself, go to this brother and his wife (Tom and Yvette) and humble themselves, and see if they can't address some of his concerns regarding accountability and transparency. Isn't it worth it to THEM? Isn't the witness of FBC Jax for Christ worth it to THEM? Don't THEY see how their stubborn refusal to treat the Rich's biblically hurts the church and all of us who are in the body? Why, oh why, haven't they tried to do ANY thing, SOMETHING, to try and resolve this with Mr. Rich without resorting to trespass warnings, JSO involvment, SAO subpoenas, smear campaign in the local newspaper (sociopath and coward) and involving Mrs. Rich?
ReplyDeleteWhy? Why indeed?
It is hard to explain how these men/leaders just can't seem to get it right when it comes to dealing with Tom's concerns.
If you people complaining about WD actions go back and read Johnny D's comment on Sept. 9 you will see why this blog (and others like it) are needed. Hypocrisy is the main reason people don't believe or will not get close to a church building. My take is that until the church admits it is run by humans who make mistakes (sometimes very bad mistakes), but their goal is be Christ like and the church takes action to clean up its own mess then the hypocrisy complaints are valid. When you have liars like the televangelists and nobody calls them what they are, what are non-believers supposed to think?
ReplyDeleteCould this be the problem?
ReplyDeleteSenior Pastor Syndrome
Johnny D - you're always welcome here, anytime!
ReplyDeleteAnon 2:37 - you and your ilk are dangerous people. Yep, gotta "silence" that Watchdog, whatever that means.
ReplyDeleteMaybe you could send over a couple of "ministers" from the FBC Jax goon squad and knock me off or break my knee caps, that would sure silence me. Or try impracatory prayers, I hear those work quite well.
Or FBC Jax and Mac Brunson could file a defamation lawsuit against me to remove posts they don't like, like the ex-SBC pastor threatened me with a few months ago.
Their strategy has worked so well thus far, they have given themselves SO many options.
The SBC is waiting to see the next move from their master playbook.
to anon September 11, 2009 11:40 AM
ReplyDeleteWould you say a pastor who writes a Pastor's Guidebook and tells other pastors NOT to accept expensive gifts, live in executive homes, or drive fancy cars is a farce if he does those things while telling others not to do them?
Would you say a pastor who writes a Pastors Guidebook and tells other pastors to meet personally with unhappy church members but does not do that himself is a farce?