Brett Shipp of WFAA news in Dallas/Ft. Worth, came out with another news report asking valid questions about Ed Young's use of his private jet. Above is the news report, I encourage all clear-thinking Southern Baptists to watch it.
How sad that it takes a news reporter to hold guys like Ed Young accountable? Instead of Ed's friends and peers telling him to cool his heels with the jet, they fly in to defend his use of a jet at the cost of tens of thousands of dollars per trip.
Will the president of the Florida Baptist Convention, John Cross, fly out to defend Ed's use of the plane for trips to Tyler, Texas, and to exotic resort locations? Maybe the jet can fly to Florida and pick John up so he can again tell Fellowship Church how awesome Ed is. Remember, Florida Baptists: John Cross, your president, endorses these trips. He endorses 100-mile trips from Dallas to Tyler, Texas - he said so when he came to defend Ed in February after Shipp's first report. He endorses 50 trips from Dallas to Miami at the cost of millions of dollars.
But God is so good to Ed. Not only did God open the door for Ed to buy a church in Miami and slap his "Fellowship Church" brand on it, but what a coincidence that the Lord led Ed to buy a $1.1 million condo in Miami as well! Praise Jesus!
And what a coincidence - the most oft traveled to location of Ed's jet is Miami, where he has BOTH his condo and his new church...so he can mix "business" and pleasure on his jaunts to South Florida!
Perhaps the most disgusting display of excess in this report are the 10 trips taken from Dallas out to the church's retreat center in Tyler, Texas. Only 100 miles, a short hour and a half trip that would cost maybe $30 in gas, instead costs THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS in the use of a leased jet.
But one thing is for sure: the people of Fellowship Church, and certainly Brett Shipp - will never, ever, EVER get their hands on detailed financial information. That is what we have learned about mega church pastors over the past 5 years. They will go down in flames, they will leave the church, before anyone will release financial information. Members at Fellowship Church either need to keep giving the money to fund this extravagance, or they need to stop funding it. If they keep funding it, they will just have to trust Ed that he is paying for ALL of his personal use of the jet at a fair reimbursement rate. It's all about trusting Ed.
And I don't trust these wealthy mega church celebrity pastors any further than I could pick them up and throw them.
But they know - people are gullible, they love to worship celebrities, and some of them are proud to fund such luxury for their "man of God". I have heard from several members who tell me that the heat is being turned up on givers to fork over more money as finances get tighter as more members leave.
Thank you, Brett Shipp. You are standing in the gap right now until the people of God get their head screwed on right and start holding their leaders accountable.
It's all interstate with a 70 mph speed limit most of the way. Do they provide a car in Tyler for him too?
ReplyDeleteThis is disrespectful to God's creation. The fuel difference is huge and results in pollution of the air that is unnecessary. Wastes energy, pollutes, etc.
Dawg:
ReplyDeleteThe period during which the reporter says he obtained the flight records included the time during which the church was obtaining the land, as well as planning and constructing the Allaso Ranch facility.
In hindsight, the staffers - Ed included - could have driven more and flown less, but -- as a volunteer -- I can tell you that there was a sense of urgency to complete the facility on time so that it would no longer be necessary to bus thousands of kids & volunteers to out of state conferences and facilities.
These summer programs likely result in more decisions to accept Christ than anything else the church does so a huge amount of resources are devoted to them.
I am sorry for the way others have treated you and thank you for the opportunity to comment on your blog.
-Grace.
I have nothing against you, and the camp facilities look amazing, but have you seen the prices. I have 3 children who desperately needed to feel the love of God, and experience healing, but at $700, or more each, there was no way I could possibly send them. The only urgency for building those facilities, was to further line Ed's pockets. Where is the ministry there, or are only the wealthy souls worth saving? There was no need to fly a jet to Tyler.
DeleteDr.Dog "WORSE AND WORSE","WORSE AND WORSE"[2Tim.3:13]!!!
ReplyDeleteThe Bible is without error!!!
Jesus at the beginning of his 3 years of ministry in conluding His Sermon on the Mount warned us too "Beware of wolves in sheep clothing"[Matt.7:15}.Christ further stated that you will know these wolves by "their fruit"(vv-16-20).Not what they look like,but what they says and do!!!
Jesus again at the end of His Ministry again warned to be alert "For false christ and false prophets "WILL" arise and deceive "the many"[Matt.24:5,11,24]!!!
Dr.Dog it should surprise "NO" one who diligently studies the Scriptures and believe that frauds like Ed Young among others are here and are so sucessful in fleecing people and leading the people astray.
Many of the people are at fault because their ears are itching,and they want them scratched,and don't want to know the truth!!!
I havn't blogged lately Dr.Dog,but believe me I check multiple times everyday to keep up with what's going on.
Stay at it my brother,you're openning a lot of eyes too the abuses of these charlatans posing as Ministers of Christ!!!
Anybody who follows this man is a FOOL, he's nothing but a glorified motivational speaker.
ReplyDeletePeople who attend Fellowship NEED to open up their eyes and realize what this guy is all about.
and it def. is not about Jesus.
I've listened to EY online and he makes NO SENSE whatsoever.
there is no way I'd be able to trust someone who is going to continue to deceive me and lie to me and make excuses about his extravagant lifestyle.
That is not a Pastor, But a Wolf hiding behind the Bible as a sheep.
Isn't it ironic that Jesus walked everywhere he traveled. He did not even require an old outdated rusty chariot and a mule to pull it. Strange are the ways of man!!! Maybe they don't interpret the Bible correctly.
ReplyDeleteAlso please note that even in Caesar's day, the people came to him. He did not go to them. The attitude of these preachers is they are so gifted, important etc., that no one is qualified or exceptional enough to pastor a church but them. So they must be all things to all people. I am sure it is not necessary that these guys pastor satellite (multiple) churches. I think it really boils down to how many venues can they draw money from!!
Well, young Ed Young learned well from his father, the elder Ed Young, pastor of Second Baptist Church in Houston (aka the Monstrosity on Woodway). So Not Surprised!
ReplyDeleteHeads-up everybody: DO NOT go to the post about this on A Little Leaven. I did and opened the video and got a virus. My guess is Ed Young's people planted it.
ReplyDeleteIt amuses me that some like to label this blog as gossip and slander when we read the actual accounts of journalist in their respective newspapers.
ReplyDeleteGood to have Pastor/Bro Rod reporting back in - a man with a lot of biblical insight.
As he says, worse & worse!
Matt is right...GET OUT! Most of these guys are just trying to get the lifestyle and the money as fast as they can, as much as they can. Before the money gives out and most of these churches go out of business or go broke trying to keep the preachers in "style". Is it any wonder that so many are getting wise and leaving these "money pits". I was in a Baptist church for 40+ years and I saw the "trend" after most of the truly God called preachers died...I left. It is "business", but, it isn't Gods business.
ReplyDeleteIn reading and following this blog it's easy to think all churches / pastors are greedy, excessive liars. I know (hope) no one feels this way. But even if you don't say it, I have seen my actions / attitudes can be tainted by that thought.
ReplyDeleteI wanted to bring your attention to a blog I read. Don't know much about this Pastor other then listening to his podcast. Lets pray for Gods protection on his life.
http://theviolenttakeitbyforce.blogspot.com/2010/04/david-platt-crisis-of-belief.html
There are few people who harm the name of Jesus more then Pastors who live like Pharisees and the evil one knows that far better then we do.
Lets also remember to ask what have we done to help the widows, orphans and those we see in need every day. And if we don't see them...we need to open our eyes.
God Bless.
Good comments here. You would think, from listening to these mega pastors, that true religion and undefiled is this: to listen to little maxims on leadership and purpose.
ReplyDeleteThe message of Christ keeps being watered down while celebrity is worshiped among Christians.
EXPOSURE! It's painful but necessary. Thanks, Dawg.
Why don't some of the EXPERTS on being a pastor on here start your own church, seems more productive than tearing other pastors down. Can't believe all the criticizing and judging on here will get a well done before the King of Kings one day! Seems like I read somewhere (the Bible maybe) that vengeance and judgment belong to God. Seems like God is capable and doesn't need our help in taking care of those who abuse the ministry. Did I miss the verse that says it's okay to tear others down regardless of what they've done? Maybe it's in the First Book of Opinions!
ReplyDeleteComments like that of Anon.
ReplyDeleteApril 28,2010 2:49 PM show just how and why the church is in such terrible condition.!!!
Please Anon read just Acts 20:27-31 and explain what was the Apostle Paul warning the Ephesians Elders to watch out for?
Secondly was that Pauls responsiblity,or should he just have remained silent and let God warn them personally?
The lost are not saved by:
ReplyDeletePrivate Jets
Elaborate facilities
Extravagant productions
The way we dress up or dress down
Praise songs
Hymns
Festivals
Hunting & fishing Expos
Etc
The lost come to Jesus by the word of our testimony and the power of the word.
I am weary of people justifying the bad behavior of certain religious leader because “people are making decisions for Jesus.” You can no more prove that is true than I can prove that it is not true.
But what cannot be disputed is for a Minister/Ministry to have a private plane is an extraordinary extravagance and a misuse of the money given for the work of Christ.
Likewise, to jump in a private plane to go 100 miles is and extraordinary extravagance that is totally unjustifiable. There is no way flying saved any time. It took much more time, money and effort to fly the plane 100 miles than it would to drive.
Here are questions for those who say we should not be disputing the bad behavior of these certain religious leaders, how do you think Southern Baptists came into existence? Why do we have a First Baptist Church and then a Second Baptist Church in almost every town? How are we to remain silent in the face of so much abuse of power? Why do we witness, is God so powerless that He cannot save people himself?
Job was wealthy. Abraham was rich. Jesus was buried in a rich man's tomb. So what's the problem? Jealousy? You wish that you had the type of influence for Christ that Ed Young has? You want him riding a donkey to Tyler? Do you ride a donkey? Maybe the flight was a little over the top...are you paying for it? Is it really your business? Or is this just another excuse to sling mud, defame pastors, and tear down God's man? This "gotcha" game is getting old....if you guys would have been around when Peter cursed and denied Jesus, he wouldn't have had a chance!
ReplyDelete....if you guys would have been around when Peter cursed and denied Jesus, he wouldn't have had a chance!
ReplyDeleteApril 28, 2010 4:16 PM
Peter cried tears of sorrow and repented of his sin and was forgiven. That's the difference.
I have been reminded that in many large/mega churches today we have a generation of pastors who are gifted speakers and they are, for the most part, of the same generation - 40's to early 50's.
Their mode of operation is the same: they are CEO's rather than shepherds to their flocks. Like
CEO's of corporations they demand the utmost loyalty from those under their command - from staff, to lay leadership, to the person sitting in the pew. They want team players and anyone who questions anything for any reason is no longer a team player in their eyes. Any questioning is considered negative thinking and they refuse to have any negtivity in their midst. The goal is usually greater numbers and more profit. These men are usually driven to succeed and (my opinion) they deceive themselves into thinking they are doing it all for
Jesus - to harvest more souls for His kingdom. And thus the ends, in their thinking, justifies the means. They do not mind trampling on the hearts and lives of others in order to reach the goal. If one questions, he/she is told they are getting in the way of what God is doing. It's a no win situation and if your onvictions will not allow you to go along to get along, the only recourse is to exit as gracefully as possible and find a new church home.
Job was not a preacher and neither was Abraham, they were business men and earned their wealth. They gave a tithe and did not demand one from others for their own benefit.
ReplyDeleteIs Ed Young truly a great influence for Christ? Or is he a great influence for himself?
I may not have paid for the flight but having a private jet is a tremendous abuse of power and people need to be informed of such abuses.
No mudslinging, just stating facts.
Peter acknowledged his wrong, repented and received forgiveness.
I notice you do not answer the questions. Why?
If you do not like what people post I suggest you permeate this place with your absence.
Anonymous April 28, 2010 4:45 PM
ReplyDelete“They do not mind trampling on the hearts and lives of others in order to reach the goal.”
Is such sentiment not indicative of an unsaved person? Would a person who can inflict this kind of heartache and pain on our fellow brothers and sisters be disqualified from the ministry?
The "jealousy" charge again. Defenders of waste and abuse perhaps project onto others their own motivations. Somehow, I don't think meek servants who see wrong in extravagance are motivated by jealousy. Something is seriously haywire in the thinking of groupies who - rather than deal with extreme behavior in their Christian celebrity gods - impute greedy motives to those who shine light on the excesses.
ReplyDeleteBitterness is an ugly thing! Hate and meaness is not a Biblical virtue! "If you can't answer the question, why don't you permeate this place with your absence" said Anon 5:12 to me...would you say that to my face? Is that Christlike? It's easy to talk about Ed Young like he is the Devil himself...have you met him, do you know him, do you believe everything that someone writes on the Web...are you really that naive?
ReplyDeleteAno. 9:16 said Ed is a "wolf". That is saying he is Satan...is Ed Young really the Devil? Think about your language Brothers and Sisters!
Ano 5:16 said in effect..."Ed is not saved"
I ask you to look at that finger...there are 3 more aimed right at you!
"would you say that to my face? Is that Christlike?"
ReplyDeleteYes, I would and define Christlike. If it means arriving at the truth then yes it's Christlike. You are the one who is frustrated and unable to explain your views.
The only one who sounds bitter is you. I have not acused you of anything I have only asked questions, which you have ignored.
If you can't answer the question, why don't you permeate this place with your absence"
ReplyDeleteAlso that is not what I said, is it?
"Is Ed Young truly a great influence for Christ? Or is he a great influence for himself?"
ReplyDeleteThis is phrased in the form of a question not a statement. This provides opportunity for you to give a word of testimony and state Yes, Ed Young is a great influence for Christ because.......
My ignorance requires education. Why don't you try teaching me.
So let's see, criticism and judgmental attitudes win people to Jesus, just wanted to make sure I read that properly, guess that's in the Second Book of Opinions. So it's all right to criticize, murmur (biblical word, look it up, Israelites got busted over it) and complain but don't be like Ed, Steve, Mac, or others. Maybe that's the Third Book of Opinions.
ReplyDeleteI have been following your blog for some time and have found, early on, my agreement with you concerning the behavior of pastors in the SBC. I found myself wanting to know more about what these men did wrong even to the point I looked forward to seeing what was new in the distorted lives of pastors.
ReplyDeleteHere is my problem.
I found out that for over a year now I wanted to see these men fail and fall. I wanted to hear about their sin and even hoped they would continue to sin and you would report it so that my personal delight would be fed.
I found myself hating these me more than the sin they committed. I told my friends and others who would listen the stories you told with great passion for the hearer to hear the ugliness of these pastors. I found some along the way who would ask daily; "What's the scoop today?"
I came to myself (Luke 15:7) and realized I was wrong in what I was doing. I was making my feelings toward these men to dominate my life and witness. It was dragging me into a bitter person towards my fellow brothers in Christ and creating a disdain for His church, at large.
God has forgiven me and I have been set free.
I just wanted to share this as a personal note to how God is working in me.
But by the grace of God, there go I.
In Christ's love to you Dog...
Anon 2:49pm. Obviously you don't believe in personal accountability otherwise you would never make such a statement. God sits on His throne. He leaves Christians to do the judging and ruling on things that should be corrected down on earth until He returns. How about crime. Should the citizenry just sit back and wait on God to take care of the criminals too? You are either very very young or naive in your thinking process. One day you will look back and see how you have been so wrong. Wake up and quit sitting on the fence.
ReplyDeleteAnon @ 5:58 pm, you seem to hold this so called messenger in higher esteem than the integrity of the Word and the reputation of the Saviour, for whom is representing.
ReplyDeleteTake your worshipful eyes off these celebrity types, who subltly sanctify their excesses.
http://www.crosstalkblog.com/2010/04/from-behind-the-keyboard/
ReplyDelete"As these celebrity pastors get more and more off the rails biblically, it is God’s own statement on their ministries that men and women from all walks of life have to take time out from their primary callings to warn about these leaders and expose what they’re doing. The churches aren’t holding their pastors accountable, so others have to. God is also using the unsaved to do that. When the church will not judge its own, the world often does it.
As a case in point, I give you this news clip from News 8, a Texas television station that is exposing the extravagant lifestyle of Pastor Ed Young. He’s the pastor of Fellowship Church, best known for putting a bed on his “stage”, doing a sex challenge, and appropriately showing up on Comedy Central. Note the irony of the reporter referring to the “church jet.” Only in America.
This is how evangelical Christians make headlines. Not for changed lives and holy living, but for outrageous conduct in Christ’s name. Mark Driscoll of Mars Hill first became well-known as the “cussing pastor.” That’s quite a claim to fame, but it got him plenty of attention. That’s how bad things have gotten.
We’ll continue to report and warn, because sunlight is still the best disinfectant. Most of what goes on in the name of evangelical Christianity today is a fleshly fraud. Christ referred to his “little flock.” Narrow is the way and few find it, Scripture tells us. May the Lord help all of us reject the horror show of the American “church” and follow on that narrow way."
As a youth some years ago, I knew a young man who spoke with great authority of the things of God. His testimony was unequalled and unquestionable. He drew large, for then, crowds of people to hear him preach and teach the word of God. Souls were saved. People were baptized. People repented. All of the deacons and Christian leaders swore that he was a great man of God and one day would do great things for the kingdom of heaven.
ReplyDeleteA few years later after college, he and I worked for the same company. One day as he sat in the desk next to me smoking one cigarette after the other, I turned to him and asked, “What happened to you?”
“What do you mean?” He replied.
“You used to go to church, read your Bible and preach but now you do not do any of those things, what happened?”
“Oh, that. I never believed any of that **** it was just a great way to meet ‘good’ girls so I could make them not so ‘good’ girls.” He told me and he laughed about it. He was actually proud of what he had done. “You don’t believe any of that **** do you?”
The funny thing is people knew but they did not want to say anything for fear of being accused of being a gossip or of spreading a bad report or of being malicious.
His victims were vilified and told not to say anything. They were victimized a second time by the very people who should have been protecting them and us!
This how predators of all kinds are allowed to infiltrate our churches and our church leadership, we demand everyone not speak up and make everyone afraid to speak out.
Who was right the ones who refused to expose the charlatan from the fraud he is and let him continue to prey on the unsuspecting or would it have been better to expose him for what he really is?
Grace and Truth to You [Wade Burleson] > The Sword and the Trowel, The Scalpel and the Suture--The Right Use Law and Grace.
ReplyDeleteI have written about Ergun Caner three times and his brother Emir once. I've asked questions that I believe Southern Baptists need to ask. It is very important, in my opinion, that Southern Baptists take the lead in asking the tough questions of the Caners. Were those outside the Southern Baptist Convention to begin asking questions and go on to discover actual deception has taken place by Ergun Caner, then it could not be said that Southern Baptists sat by in silence, either duped by our dumbness or silenced by our sychophancy. In other words, judgment must begin within our Convention, or most certainly condemnation will come from outside our Convention.
Gossip is defined in Websters Dictionary as "A person who habitually spreads intimate or private rumors or facts."
ReplyDeleteDefamation is defined as "the injuring of a person's good name or reputation."
What is our goal? Is it.."gotcha'"
Is it restoration?
Look for yourself...do you see any of these "Christian" bloggers say they are praying for Ergun or Ed? Just casual reading seems that we are EXCITED that we have caught another mega-pastor in some sort of a "sin". Are we praying for their hearts and souls Or are we praying for their demise? Judge for yourself after reading some of these sweet entries.. Just asking....
Imagine what it would be like if we all just gave up researching and exposing these deceivers and let these Pharisees do as they please.
ReplyDeleteI know many of you within the Baptist Mafia would be thrilled, but then would we be doing GODS will for our lives.
Someone has to hold them accountable since the church can not, will not and does not.......
Manipulation and Authoritarian Churches: Turning the Tables
ReplyDeletehttp://oldrestministriesinfo.blogspot.com/2009/12/turning-tables.html
When truth hurts, blame the light source. These are old tricks.
Slow To Speak . . .if you are a member of First Baptist Jax then you need to sit down and mentor Councilman Don Redmond with how he should kindly communicate to other people. (my understanding that ushers hold deacon seats)
ReplyDeleteI say this because here again today we have another well known member of First Baptist taking jabs at people which make the headlines on the front page of the Florida Times Union. Another great testimony to represent the members of FBCJ - very embarassing!
"I say this because here again today we have another well known member of First Baptist taking jabs at people which make the headlines on the front page of the Florida Times Union. Another great testimony to represent the members of FBCJ - very embarassing!"
ReplyDeleteApril 29, 2010 9:08 AM
Anon while you are taking jabs at Redmon's behavior(which I won't defend as totally appropriate).Please tell me what is "your" veiw of Jesus and His place among the "gods" of other relgions?
I don't know who is worse...Ed Young, and the other mega-club stars/CEOs...maybe white-washed tombs would be appropriate? OR, maybe these folks who write in and defend the good ol' boys mafia that hold leadership positions in these mega-clubs?!?!? Really, has the Body of Christ reached such a pathetic state as reflected by the morons who comment. The articles are interesting and informative. It's the comments that REALLY scare me. Who ARE you people who continue to defend the liars, spenders, and manipulators. You use such offensive, mean and SPIRIT-less words!!
ReplyDeleteI live in a part of the world where MILLIONS have yet to hear the name of the Father ONCE...and here some of y'all are defending private jets, cruises down the Danube, and glass cathedrals!!! How 'bout spending more in the areas of misns, both home and Internationally??? The IMB is cutting back on employees, field folks, medical and dental. Workers abroad are having to spend more time doing administration, leaving less time to really be focusing on the MAIN THING.
It's past time for all this fussin' and fighting. A change has GOT to be made at the next convention, or we're not only gonna loose our dear SBC, but worse, we're gonna continue to fall behind in reaching the lost...souls that will step into eternity without Jsus, and all y'all will be carin' about is planes, and name calling.
Dear Dawg, keep up the good work. You goof balls who haven't the sense Gd gave a cat, need to get saved, or find a new sense of focus and zeal for the lost that you seem to have for defending the current mega-club stars!!
It's SICK folks!!!
Young has a pastoral staff that breaks bruised reeds, and quenches smoldering wicks (Matt. 12:20)…
ReplyDeleteEd Young tried to defend himself on 04.26.2010 at the Ed Young blog: "Dealing with criticism: Not If, but When" (Part of a 3 part series of videos designed to show Pastors how to handle situations like this). Here is part of what was said…
Pastor Preston Mitchell of Fellowship Church: “It’s like the wheat and the tares. When you have controversy and something negative you see who’s really got your back, who trusts you.”
Ed Young: “That’s great.”
Mitchell: “It’s OK if those people want to leave. They need too. It’s brings the light onto people who probably shouldn’t be a part of your church. And if they leave, that’s fine. Don’t freak out.”
Young: “Preston, you’ve done such a great job over the years of telling people. You were the first person I’ve ever seen, EVER, to say, “hey you know what, our church is not for everybody. Maybe it’s not for you. Why don’t you go to another church.” And I think that’s a freeing thing. Because you were even doing that before you were a “hired gun” here. I think it’s a freeing thing to tell people, “hey, if this is not for you, go somewhere else.””
The aforementioned quotes are at the very end of the video.
This is a strange church discipline they are recommending. They just encourage a departure (break fellowship with believers) in response to their “criticism” : most likely a request to see the accounting of the plane’s costs and uses. There's no sin mentioned here, they just want them to leave and go to some other church. That reminds me of Diotrephes in 3 John who put people out of the church.
Paul says at Acts 20:29: “I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. And men from among yourselves will rise up with deviant doctrines to lure the disciples into following them. Therefore, be on alert..”
On April 28,2010 9:55 AM
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said, "Heads-up everybody: DO NOT go to the post about this on A Little Leaven. I did and opened the video and got a virus. My guess is Ed Young's people planted it."
Since I had recently played the video there, I went straight back, started my virus scan, hit the play button, and ... No virus. But there are some truthful posts there, and here is one from me...
My wife and I went to Fellowship church starting in 2006. We withdrew our membership in 2009. Pastor Young would not answer my questions regarding how he allows Bishop Jakes, who denies the Trinity, and denies that Jesus Christ is the 2nd Person of the Trinity, to preach to the congregation at Fellowship, while keeping them in the dark about Jakes heretical views. How deeply does a pastor love Jesus Christ, when far from telling Mr. Jakes to stop believing a monad termed Jesus because Jesus says he'll go to hell for that (Matt. 7:21-23), he instead lets him preach to his congregation year in and year out, and doesn’t tell his congregation that Jakes' worships a different Jesus than we do? And where is the record of Ed Young’s giving to his church from all his defenders who say he gives sacrificially? Or any record of the church’s finances? Or any record of Ed’s full reimbursements for the planes' hangar fees, lease payments, fuel costs, pilot costs, and insurance costs? Why did he hide a plane in plain sight for three years? How come he has to use it to fly 100 miles to the retreat center by Tyler? And what is this nonsense from the public relations firm about Ed frequently leading sermons at the Miami campus (when he did 2 at the most between 2007 and 2009), as a way to try to explain 150 trips to Miami out of 416 total plane trips, in less than three years? Can you imagine what the membership of Miami is thinking right now about that? Just look at Ed Young, and all the secrets he keeps. He says he makes well under a million per year, but still pays back “every penny” of the planes costs, but he does not open the books. Think deeply about that. This is an insult to any and every member of the body of Jesus Christ. Take a real good, objective, calm and cool look at Ed Young. Use your mind. Jesus said, “Beware of false prophets…you will know them by their fruits. They come to you as inwardly ravenous wolves in sheeps clothing” Mat. 7:15. Do not be fooled. God is causing him to be exposed. Ed Young deliberately set things up so his church could not hold him accountable. That is by design. But he cannot stop his audience of One. Think. Ask God to help you understand what his fruit is. And say, "There, but for the grace of God, go I."
Robert Tilton and the Bakkers didn't get away with this fraud. Now why in the heck is Ed Young getting away with it??????!!!!
ReplyDeleteAnybody who follows this man is a FOOL, he's nothing but a glorified motivational speaker.
ReplyDeletePeople who attend Fellowship NEED to open up their eyes and realize what this guy is all about.
and it def. is not about Jesus.
I've listened to EY online and he makes NO SENSE whatsoever.
there is no way I'd be able to trust someone who is going to continue to deceive me and lie to me and make excuses about his extravagant lifestyle.
That is not a Pastor, But a Wolf hiding behind the Bible as a sheep.
April 28, 2010 9:16 AM
They are fooled because they really do not know the Word. It is that simple. They think they do but they do not.
"But by the grace of God, there go I."
ReplyDeleteThat is not in the Word.
If pointing out error and sin is a sin then Paul was the worst.
Your goal should be to get people to wake up and come out of these cult of personality entertainment temples. It is about snatching them from the flames of hell. (Jude)
"Look for yourself...do you see any of these "Christian" bloggers say they are praying for Ergun or Ed? "
ReplyDeleteAre you saying we should pray they become saved and bear good fruit?
Spend your time praying for those who blindly follow and support them. Ed and Caner know the truth yet do the opposite and lie.
Bottom Line- Without Ed Young- Fellowship Church does not exist. It is he who made it-it is he who people come to hear each week preach the word of God- because of his gift of communication. You know what- I don't care if he owns an entire airline company and has a 20 million dollar mansion. I am completely satisfied that my tithe is going to help missions, and deliver Gods word. Period. He deserves everything he has worked hard to achieve. Why is it that everyone else can earn triple digit incomes and it is perfectly fine- but the wolves come out when a Man of God is successful enough to earn a nice salary and enjoy the finer things in life. To the Watchdog: Get a Life! Find a bigger story that someone cares about!
ReplyDeleteDear Watchdog,
ReplyDeleteI'm a pastor of a church in Minnesota and have followed some of Ed's teaching on leadership for several years, and up to this moment, have truly enjoyed them. Sometime ago, Ed spoke on the importance of transparency with your flock. He spoke richly on credibility and how leaders must pave the way in the area of transparency if true life change is going to happen among those you lead. So, yes... I'm truly baffled by Ed's response, or lack thereof, to these important questions. As pastors, our ultimate purpose is not to conceal, but to reveal. Hence, when Ed is asked a simple question about the Jet, vacation home, etc., he should be honest and transparent. When a pastor suggests that "he or she doesn't have to give an answer to a question regarding ministry," this truly alarms me - and produces some huge red flags on credibility. You can't have it both ways. You can't tell people that transparency is extremely important as a leader, and yet fail to answer important financial questions. For me, the issues isn't so much about the amount of money Ed makes (his salary), but more so "why" Ed had chosen to keep so many things secret.
I will be praying for my friend, Ed.
Bottom Line- Without Ed Young- Fellowship Church does not exist. It is he who made it-it is he who people come to hear each week preach the word of God- because of his gift of communication. You know what- I don't care if he owns an entire airline company and has a 20 million dollar mansion. I am completely satisfied that my tithe is going to help missions, and deliver Gods word. Period. He deserves everything he has worked hard to achieve. Why is it that everyone else can earn triple digit incomes and it is perfectly fine- but the wolves come out when a Man of God is successful enough to earn a nice salary and enjoy the finer things in life. To the Watchdog: Get a Life! Find a bigger story that someone cares about!
ReplyDeleteApril 29, 2010 9:15 PM
Can you show us an example of an Ed Young type in the NT? Paul's villa in Corinth? John's gold chariot for missions travel? After all, with all they did they surely deserved the finer things in life. Perhaps God did not like them as much as Ed.
(Just using your biblical logic)
Bottom Line- Without Ed Young- Fellowship Church does not exist. It is he who made it-it is he who people come to hear each week preach the word of God- because of his gift of communication. You know what- I don't care if he owns an entire airline company and has a 20 million dollar mansion. I am completely satisfied that my tithe is going to help missions, and deliver Gods word. Period. He deserves everything he has worked hard to achieve. Why is it that everyone else can earn triple digit incomes and it is perfectly fine- but the wolves come out when a Man of God is successful enough to earn a nice salary and enjoy the finer things in life. To the Watchdog: Get a Life! Find a bigger story that someone cares about!
ReplyDeleteApril 29, 2010 9:15 PM
Ed is a wolf. A wolf in red pants with blow dried hair. He peddles the gospel for personal gain.
Penny said "without Ed Young - Fellowship Church does not exist". I think that is the heart of the problem. There is no doubt that his talent for speaking draws people, which has helped to fuel growth over the years. But if the church would truly cease to exist without him, there is a real problem. The church should be reliant on Christ, and built by the work of many of His people, not just one man. If a pastor sees too much adulation coming his way, it is his responsibility to redirect it to Christ, not feed that adulation by branding everything in sight with his own name. We attended Fellowship Church for several months, and while we enjoyed the unique presentation of biblical concepts, we became more and more convicted that it was way too much about Ed, and on shaky ground as a result. I think it's very probable that he started out with only the best of intentions, and He and the church were blessed and grown because of it. But mountaintop experiences like that can lead to pride and a painful fall. So I pray that Ed will come clean before God and His people, repent, and give God the credit He so richly deserves. And that Fellowship Church will be rebuilt on firm ground so that it can continue on with or without Ed Young.
ReplyDeleteWhen Ed Young teaches that Jesus is the 2cnd. Person of the Trinity (as he did in 2006), that is his sheep’s clothing. When he lets Bishop Jakes, who denies and defies the Trinity, preach annually in his church, that is the inwardly ravenous wolf’s fruit. When Young says leaders should be open and transparent, that is his sheep’s clothing. When he hides a plane for 3 years, that’s his inwardly ravenous wolf’s fruit. When Young says he “often returns to the Miami campus to lead sermons” because he’s “personally very active there” (through his public relations firm), that is his sheep’s clothing. When the truth is he only led 2 sermons there from 2007-2009, that is his inwardly ravenous wolf’s fruit. When Young says he pays back every penny of the planes costs to Fellowship, that is his sheep’s clothing. When he refuses to let anyone see the accounting of that, that is his inwardly ravenous wolf’s fruit. When Young says, “(the plane) is something that um, you know, I’ve never been shy about telling people that ask us that all around the country. I tell people that” (04.26.2010 EdYoungblog: “There’s Always a Story Behind the Story at the 3 minute mark), that is his sheep’s clothing. When his staff and church learn of the plane first from the worldly media, that is his inwardly ravenous wolf’s fruit. When Young suggests he serves Christ, that is his sheep’s clothing. But when he waves his bible in front of a gold plated grill (U.B.U. video at the 0:32 mark; hit the pause button at 0:32), he’s showing the world his inwardly ravenous covetous idolatrous wolf’s fruit.
ReplyDelete" I think it's very probable that he started out with only the best of intentions, and He and the church were blessed and grown because of it."
ReplyDeleteThe absolute biggest mistake in Christendom these days is thinking that big numbers mean God's blessing. It is typical mega church thinking.
By that logic then George Soros is being blessed by God. And so are ballgames.
Any church can grow huge with cult of personality and appealing to 'felt needs'. Ask Rick Warren.
PennyH, That's REALLY sad if the pastor is the main reason people come to church.
ReplyDeleteThe main reason people should go to church is because of Jesus and because they want to learn more about the Bible.
Ed Young is not going to come out and say " Hey, I'm a Wolf, I'm here to take your money and whatever else I can get my hands on so I can live in a 7,000 Sq. foot house and own a condo" etc.
He's going to "Baa Baa" like a Sheep and hope that none of the people at his church realize what he is really up to.
He is going to say ALL the right things so that people will think he's the real deal.
Even the Devil knows scripture.
Sooooo according to all the theologians and enviro wacko's here, Ed should walk or take a donkey like Jeeesus?
ReplyDeleteI say Ed should hire a limo and then the booze would be included. Almost as fast and a heck of a lot cheaper. To me, Ed is guilty of poor judgement and poor allocation of resources. You don't have to be wealthy to be guilty of these sins.
Just wondering....do you Biblical scholars/experts prefer mousse, dippity doo or Brylcream? Blow dry or natural? Barna needs to do a poll.
From verumserum. Posted in response to the first news 8 investigation..
ReplyDelete"As a former FC employee, I can shed some light..on some of the inner-workings of the corporation so many like to refer to as “Fellowship Church”.
When you are let go from FC, you are basically forced to sign a clause stating that you cannot publicly ridicule, bash or talk badly about Fellowship Church or its leaders, WHETHER THE INFORMATION IS TRUE OR NOT, or the church can and will sue you for slander. If you refuse to sign the document, they withhold any and all severance pay being offered.
There has been a recent mass exodus of mature, long-time church members causing a severe budget crisis that has resulted in major cut-backs in staff and services leaving many ministries with a skeleton crew. The regular staff is required to work 6 days on and 1off and often asked/required to work the 7th day which makes their work week 70-80 hours, many times going 2-3 weeks and sometimes months without a day off. It is not an uncommon occurrence to work a 15-hour day and be asked to stay into the night because Ed has decided to “change things up” for the weekend.
The messages, materials and videos generated with church-paid staff, church VOLUNTEERS, church facilities and church equipment has been deemed Ed’s “intellectual property” and sold to a private entity owned by Ed to be used for his personal gain, rather than using those proceeds to fund the church or help with the current budget issues.
If you’re keeping up with the math, his salary doesn’t just end with what he is paid at Fellowship. He spends the better part of each week traveling to speaking engagements on the church’s dime to earn countless dollars for himself, and let’s not forget his many books he has published and copies of his paintings he has for sale. When you walk into Lifeway Bookstore, for example, and see small group Bible study books with Fellowship Church’s name printed on them, the money is NOT being generated back to FC but are instead being sold through a private entity owned by Ed.
Another money-maker that has flown under the radar is the church’s bookstore and cafe, “The Source” located at the Grapevine campus. Members are lead to believe that any and all products sold there are church property and their dollars are being generated back into the church. Wrong. The bookstore is owned by a private company that is owned by Ed.
I have a problem that the “Proper People” in most cases are handpicked friends, longtime and well paid employees of the pastor and are employed at the PASTOR’S discretion. Recently, 3 long-time “Proper People” were let go for “not being loyal enough” because they had been trying to get Ed to do the Right Thing instead of The Crazy Thing for quite some time.
Employees are not allowed to say “no” or question ANY decision made by Ed OR by senior staff. The minute you question them, you are deemed “not loyal” and you’re out the door without them even batting an eye.
He has said from the stage countless times that if you don’t agree with something that’s being said or done, then “there’s the door”. If you mention that you would like to hear something with more depth than watching Hollywood movie clips with Bible verses thrown in for show (i.e. the “At the Movies” series), then you’re deemed a whiner and “it’s your own job to feed yourself”.
What’s sad is everyone is demanded to display this undying loyalty to the church and to Ed, but that “loyalty” will never be reciprocated if it meant having to be held accountable for anything.
No one has access to the church’s financial records, even when tithing members ask for them.
February 18, 2010 @ 5:33 pm
In my May 1, 2010 10:16 AM post I was not clear enough.
ReplyDeleteIt should be stated clearly that I am not the "Former FC employee." I have copied this posters comments, and edited his post to make it fit within the 4096 character limit. Also, this poster's comments have to be taken cautiously, since he has not revealed his identity.
I wonder if everyones pointing the finger and worrying about someone elses church takes away from the ultimate point of Christianity...heart for Christ and Glorifying God. If you don't agree with things, go about your business and build your relationship with Christ in your own way within a different church. I really don't think arguing over this type of thing is really what we are called to do. WHo are we to judge or slander this individual (s)? Im just saying. Are any of you God? Im just wondering...because I do not worship a God filled with vengeance and anger. "Get rid of all bitterness, rage and ange, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as Christ God forgave you" Ephesians 4:31,32
ReplyDeleteAnd we as Christians wonder why the lost or the ones on the fence of giving God a chance...turn away. Bickering and vengeance against one another who are Christians. This isnt about you or me or Ed or whoever. THis is about the Allmighty God. If you think Ed is doing something wrong you can have your opinion, but some of the judgmnetal statements are out of line with Christian belief. WHo is THE ONE who has the judgement? My belief is that of God..not people on this earth living in the flesh. It happened, buck up move on and worry about how you can go and help the Kigndom and spread the good news of Christ. People are out there hurting on their death beds with no sign of knowing the Lord. Why don't Christians focus on that and stop the bickering? Im just saying."Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead" 1 Peter 1:3
Cant we focus on something like the above? SHouldnt this be the news we are talking about? How we can be good stewars of the word and help change lives for the glory of God?
Why do we contend with impropriety in the church? The only thing I can tell you is get out, witness, and try to share the gospel. You will quickly learn the damage this abuse is having. The lost are looking at this kind of abuse and saying, “If this is the kind of thing the church condones, you can have it.”
ReplyDeleteWhose to say i or anyone else is not getting out to spread the good news. Are we suggesting others on here are not? Im just saying...This affects others accepting Christ just as much as the bickering they hear between Christians and religions. You can try and pin point one thing over the other all day long but what good does that do? It all boils down to "it is what it is" and we have have to overcome these objections to be able to do what we are called to do. If one rejects the gospel for one reason another will reject it for another. It all boils down to the individual and their "acceptance" and the God given ability to make the choice. Anyways, this is my last post because I just find these blogs curious on not focusing the positives(hence the opposite of media...lol) and spreading THE TRUTH no matter what wordly things get in the way...I leave with this cause I love this verse..."For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in ALL creation, WILL BE ABLE TO SEPERATE US FROM THE LOVE OF GOD THAT IS IN CHRIST JESUS OUR LORD" Romans 8:38, 39
ReplyDeleteGod bless all and lets go out and rock the heavens with our love for the Lord. Stop the bickering and spread the love!!!
If you and the others like you were truly sharing the faith then you would surely have seen the tremendous harm that this style of worship is doing. The lost I witness to are not the least bit concerned with any of the so called “bickering,” than they are with the acceptance of what is clearly unholy and unchristian. If you truly believed in “spreading the love,” as you contend; then there is no way you could allow so much needless pain to be inflicted on your brothers and sisters. Spend some time among the unsaved and you will quickly learn what I am talking about.
ReplyDeleteBickering!!!! I am astounded how you can attack someones faith ( as I contend...lol) Mr or Mrs WishIHadknown. I came from the depths of the unsaved 4 years ago. THe depths on rock bottom of the unsaved. I share my story and my testimony ALL the time..along with THE WORD as I continue to learn it. Its people like you who that go around attacking peoples faith because you think "yours" is supreme. You probably think you have all the knowledge and that you sit above the rest huh? WHo are you on this earth? I didnt know Jesus had returned, but as you speak it seems you must be the High Priest that we worship huh? When you idolize yourself like you do, you are committing sin. Lol. Dude or dudette whoever you are....you need to get over yourself and continue to spread the love and not bicker and attack others faith. But it seems you are the judge according to your mind. Use your heart brother or sister...cause I might not have the most knowledge of THE BOOK OF LIFE yet, but I know folks like you are the reason people turn away from what can be the most life changing event imaginable. I will lift you up in prayer...good day and God bless.
ReplyDeleteCheck out some rules for church's to use to govern finances:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.charlotteobserver.com/2010/05/07/1422584/a-teachable-moment-for-pastors.html
Based on a pastor in Charlotte who is heading to jail for not paying taxes.
I have said that from 2007-2009, Young led 2 sermons from Miami. My wife remembered 2, I remembered 1. But the Miami campus opened, and we both remember seeing Ed on the screen in Grapevine of him preaching at the Miami campus. And we only remember 2 of those. We stopped going to Fellowship in 05/2009.
ReplyDeleteMy statement was very imprecise. I should have explained clearly what I meant. I did not. I completely failed to consider any teaching Mr. Young may have done there during the week, or simply while someone else preached at Grapevine. I mishandled the evidence. And that is sin. I deeply regret that. I publicly apologize to Ed Young, to all members of Fellowship Church, and to the readers of this board. And I will be careful to not make this mistake in the future.