Above is James White's video discussion with a man raised in Syria and whose native language is Arabic. Sorry, Caner defenders, the man is not Muslim, but is Christian, so you can't attack him on that basis. Or shall you say all Syrians are liars?
After they watch and listen to numerous clips of Ergun Caner's supposed Arabic recitations in his sermons, James White asks the man near the end of the video:
"Just from what you've seen here...do you have any reason to believe from what you've seen that Ergun Caner is a native Arabic speaker?"
To which the man replies, in a thick Arabic accent:
"Actually, from what I heard so far, I don't think he knows Arabic. I never heard him pronouncing any Arabic word."
The man did not hear one Arabic word. Translation: Caner is either speaking "jibberish", or he is impersonating someone on TBN speaking in tongues - or both.
We Christians are so gullible. How could this have taken 10 years to expose?
What else are the likes of Caner selling to us and preaching to us that is fake? What other nonsense has been coming forth from conservative Baptist pulpits from our rock star preachers that is false and fake, but hasn't been exposed yet because we worship preachers' great oratory skills and story-telling abilities, and believe everything they say?
Thank you James White for taking the time to provide evidence of Caner's fakery, with nothing to be gained for yourself but getting more ridicule and scorn heaped on you by the likes of Peter "I AM" Lumpkins.
With THAT, Peter,
I am embarrassed for gullible Christians
Years ago, I watched an episode of "Little House on the Prairie" in which a new preacher came to town. This new preacher was dynamic. He was even able to heal people. The more people he healed, the more people came to hear his message.
ReplyDeleteAs the story went, it turned out that Charles (Ingalls) was able to expose this preacher's deception when he recognized the same people being healed of the same afflictions, though this time in a different town.
It seemed this preacher knew how to manipulate the emotions of his listeners with a fake story. He built a large crowd of followers by using actors to pretend to be something they were not.
It would appear that Ergun Caner also knew how to manipulate people, especially in the sensitive period after 9/11. To those who would defend Caner's deceit, I ask: How is what Ergun Caner did any different from the fictional preacher from Little House?
"What else are the likes of Caner selling to us and preaching to us that is fake? "
ReplyDeleteExcellent question. We need to start asking this of all the cult of personality Christian celebrities. From Caner to Patterson to Brunson to Gaines to Mohler.
I find it incredible that anyone can believe Liberty leadership had no idea he was changing his bio for 9 years.
I'm not any longer interested in the fact that Ergun Caner was faking. I think its been proven. Its sad, but thats what it is. What I want to know now is who else knew? Mac Brunson? Jonathan Falwell? Jerry Falwell? Paige Patterson? Who else knew? I want to know.
ReplyDelete"
ReplyDeleteI'm not any longer interested in the fact that Ergun Caner was faking. I think its been proven. Its sad, but thats what it is. What I want to know now is who else knew? Mac Brunson? Jonathan Falwell? Jerry Falwell? Paige Patterson? Who else knew? I want to know"
Good luck. Those guys always end up walking away unscathed. Patterson has been one step ahead of the ax for years.
He would have been stopped way back at Criswell College except that Adrian Rogers, Charles STanley, Ed Young Sr and few other biggies saved his bacon.
The men you mention above will always have blind followers.
The truly scary part of Ergun Caner fiasco is his supporters. Mainly their refusing to see the facts. As in Peter Lumpkins, Tim Rogers, Tim Guthrie, Bart Barber, CB Scott, Hussein Wario, DianaRuth, et al. Of course please also include all the high fashion players/rulers/leaders/marketers of SBC and evangelicals.
ReplyDeleteAlpha & Omega Ministries Apologetics Blog [James White] > Peter Lumpkins: Alexander the Coppersmith Strikes Again.
ReplyDeleteWell, let's look at one claim made by the worst of the practitioners of the politics of personal destruction, Peter Lumpkins:
And, the official word is, James White will not be offered any future contract as adjunct instructor to teach any subject for Golden Gate Baptist Theological Seminary including Islam.
Wow! Looks like James White has already been targeted for punishment by the rulers/leaders of SBC and Evangelicals.
And you are wondering how the investigation of LU will be honest and thorough ...
I knew it would not take long for the BI guys to target White's teaching classes at GGBTS.
ReplyDeleteIn the pre internet days, this would not be made public. it would just happen and some reputation killing excuse would be made in a low whisper to anyone who dared ask.
Now, with the internet, let's see if it still works.
We worship preachers' great oratory skills and story-telling abilities, and believe everything they say
ReplyDeleteThat is the problem, all right. Gullible Christians are wowed by all these other-Jesuses. Christian bookstores are crammed with works by "leading" pastors. If we would read the scripture half as much as these top selling masterpieces, or even a tenth as much, we would be less gullible and less prone to the idolatry so rampant in evangelical circles.
That Caner has exaggerated, embellished, and out-right lied has been firmly established. Whether or not the leadership at Liberty possesses even a modest level of integrity is the issue at hand. Who all knew about this man's true biography will is really not important. Patterson, Hunt, Brunson and that crowd will promote a singing toad and pronounce it "anointed by God", if it furthers their agenda; we know that already. Let's keep the focus on Caner and the depths of depravity to which a Christian leader sinks, when he seeks to exploit a national tragedy to promote himself and feather his own nest. We would never heard of Ergun Caner if he had not exploited the tragedy of 9-11. In my opinion, he is the lowest of the low.
ReplyDeleteAlpha & Omega Ministries Apologetics Blog [James White] > Can Unbelievers Speak Truth?.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5i96cPQE_WX5ctKCpHLWQyXPSnDaQD9G5T4VO0
ReplyDeleteYou know it is bad when Richard Land will not talk to the media. The guy loves to be quoted in the media. But then, he wrote the forward in one of Caner's books. Now, he won't comment on the scandal.
I'm having a hard time finding a way to measure how much this Caner situation matters.
ReplyDeleteI get the impression that not many people in the Muslim community care. I suspect that Richard Land isn't commenting not because he believes the evidence is overwhelming, but because he doesn't think the Caner situation is significant. And finally, the fact that James White has to keep flogging this issue himself, as opposed to being able to depend on independent third parties to do it for him, suggests to me that not many people outside his sphere of influence care.
Most of the Liberty people I've spoken to don't care; this seems to be too diffuse an issue, and they know Caner mostly as an engaging chapel speaker, etc. rather than as a former jihadi. One of the Liberty alumni I've spoken to sees this entirely in terms of White's emotional state. I have no idea how representative his attitude is.
Seriously: how many people care about this issue? Dozens? Hundreds? Thousands?
When Laurie Goodstein of NYT, write a lengthy piece on Ergun Caner ... then all the bigwigs will notice and care.
ReplyDeleteTP --
ReplyDeleteI guess I'd have to say that's part of the problem Goodstein is going to have to solve. This isn't one of those situations where the typical reader will follow the connection from the Republican Party to Jerry Falwell to Liberty to Caner and still care.
I'm having a hard time finding a way to measure how much this Caner situation matters.
ReplyDeleteI get the impression that not many people in the Muslim community care. I suspect that Richard Land isn't commenting not because he believes the evidence is overwhelming, but because he doesn't think the Caner situation is significant. And finally, the fact that James White has to keep flogging this issue himself, as opposed to being able to depend on independent third parties to do it for him, suggests to me that not many people outside his sphere of influence care.
Most of the Liberty people I've spoken to don't care; this seems to be too diffuse an issue, and they know Caner mostly as an engaging chapel speaker, etc. rather than as a former jihadi. One of the Liberty alumni I've spoken to sees this entirely in terms of White's emotional state. I have no idea how representative his attitude is.
Seriously: how many people care about this issue? Dozens? Hundreds? Thousands?
June 7, 2010 2:59 PM
Mike, the only thing you are convincing me of is what passes for Christianity in the West is spiritually dead.
Do we measure the seriousness of this based upon how much traction it gets in response.
All it does for me is make me realize how important it is for us to get into the Word for ourselves and stop listening to and followingthe celebrity wolves. They simply are not trustworthy. How many examples do we need? If it helps a handful of people do that, it has traction in my book.
There are a lot of people waiting to see what Liberty says. Why?
Caner is a fraud and a deceiver. No way around that. The only question remaining is, "does Liberty care." Sadly, I'm afraid I have to agree with Mike. Liberty is not a bastion of integrity. It has, from it's inception, been driven by goals set forth by Jerry Falwell. Remember him? Ole, the end justifies the means, Jerry. Whether it was busing children to church in the '60's while railing against busing them to school, or browbeating old people out of their savings to support the "Old Time Gospel Hour," and later, his crowning achievement, Liberty University, one ethic has been in play: the end justifies the means. Don't worry about what you do, what you say, or who you hurt...just as long as you "do it for Jesus." The Caner saga is just more of the same in Lynchburg, VA.
ReplyDeleteLydia --
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure I follow your point. Even if you thought this was the most serious thing in the world what exactly would you do about it?
Even if you thought this was the most serious thing in the world what exactly would you do about it?.
ReplyDeleteJust by blogging and the newspapers disseminating the information about what Ergun Caner did is enough.
This record on the internet can not be erased or changed or white washed. LU might do minimal discipline to Ergun Caner, but now the rest of the world knows about Ergun Caner and his deeds.
That is enough by itself.
I sincerely pray and hope Ergun Caner will confess and repent of his sins.
If he does not, then we now know.
Thoughts of Francis Turretin > Dr. James White on Iron Sharpens Iron.
ReplyDeleteThe topic was the Caner scandal. The show actually starts about 2 minutes into the mp3. Among the folks calling in was Wade Burleson, who has also become something of a lightning rod for criticism by some Caner's worst enemies: those who are not calling him to public repentance but instead are attacking his critics.
Alpha & Omega Ministries Apologetics Blog [James White] > Where is the Church in the Ergun Caner Scandal? And Ten Minutes on the Atonement.
ReplyDeleteOn the DL today I raised a simple question: where is the church in the Ergun Caner Scandal? Why is it that Liberty University is being seen as the final authority in determining "the truth"? We then took a few calls on the same topic.
TP --
ReplyDeleteThanks for the links.
As an aside, I'd encourage anyone interested in this topic to subscribe to the Google Alert for "ergun caner." It arrives around 8:30 each morning, and while it isn't complete (due to sources not indexed by Google, I guess) it's helpful to see how this story is progressing.
I'd also encourage folks to listen to White's podcast from yesterday. I'd consider it Exhibit A in my argument for why I wish this little drama had a better hero than James White. I just wish he'd hunker down and let other people look at the facts, since he runs the risk of making this a battle royale between himself and his friends vs. Caner and his friends.
To my ears White's questions about church discipline sound a bit pale when there are exactly two elders at his own church: himself and his pastor. I'm not saying he isn't accountable; I'm just saying this might not be White's best strategy.
His claim (as I understand it) that he would be tougher on Caner if Caner were a Calvinist sounds a bit pale too. I haven't heard him devoting much time to examining Mark Driscoll in recent years, for example.
Probably his strongest moment during this episode is when he contrasts comments Caner made in 2002 to audiences vs. what he supposedly told an AP reporter regarding when he moved to the States. I haven't heard the public reference to which White is referring; I've checked with Tom Breen of the AP regarding the 2002 AP quote; the "1969" quote doesn't appear in the 2002 AP article on the Caner brothers, but Breen says Allen Breed, who wrote the 2002 article, has the quote in his notebook. The quote more or less became part of the public record when Breen quoted it this year.