Says FBC Jax Associate Pastor Rush Whitt, on his blog last week:"While everyone is responsible for his own thoughts and beliefs, the word of God does not teach us to think for ourselves or independently develop our own ideas....Instead, the biblical approach to thinking is to inherit godly ideas and beliefs from the godly ones who have gone before. Likewise, these godly men inherited the same from those who went before them, and so on."
He says "the biblical approach to thinking"...he is telling people who are Christians how they should "think"...and you must "inherit" your ideas from others more godly than you.
He continues:
"Wisdom belongs to the Lord and cannot be devised through any independent exercise in human thinking. Therefore, every person must receive wisdom from others, who have ultimately received it from God."So according to Rush, the bible is to be interpreted to mean there is no wisdom to be gained except those who have received it from someone else, who received it from God. Dangerous thinking, especially when considering Al Mohler's statement that pastors are "God-appointed agents to save His people from ignorance", and considering Mac Brunson's statement on 5/1/11 that "not having a pastor is dangerous". These men truly want us to think we cannot survive without full-time, professional religious seminarians in our lives telling us what to think, how to interpret the Bible, and how we are to live, who we are to listen to and not listen to....almost forgot...and we must also give 10% of our gross income to the institutions they work for, else we can't receive the full blessings of God for following their teachings. Can you spell r-a-c-k-e-t?
We've gone all the way from "On Christ the Solid Rock I Stand" to "Without My Pastor I Cannot Stand".
The reformation started over professional religious men telling the plebe they can't think for themselves. Really, this is the stuff that cults are made of. A cult must condition people that they are stupid, way too stupid to think for themselves, and that they can't possibly exist without their spiritual gurus telling them what God says.
"Instead, the biblical approach to thinking is to inherit godly ideas and beliefs from the godly ones who have gone before. Likewise, these godly men inherited the same from those who went before them, and so on."
ReplyDeleteThis is Rome, pure and simple. This is about as Catholic in your thinking as you can get. Apostalic succession type thinking. The Pope hears from God and tells us.
One wonders what the Holy Spirit is for if they truly believe in this "inheritance" of godly thinking.
You are right. It is cultish. And sadly, people believe them.
ReplyDeleteRush modified his blog entry by adding the words "namely Christ" in this sentence:
ReplyDelete"...the biblical approach to thinking is to inherit godly ideas and beliefs from the godly ones who have gone before."
It now reads:
"...the biblical approach to thinking is to inherit godly ideas and beliefs from the godly ones who have gone before, namely Christ"
"Wisdom belongs to the Lord and cannot be devised through any independent exercise in human thinking. Therefore, every person must receive wisdom from others, who have ultimately received it from God."
ReplyDeletePerhaps he needs to study more:
26 Brothers and sisters, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. 27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28 God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, 29 so that no one may boast before him. 30 It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. 31 Therefore, as it is written: “Let the one who boasts boast in the Lord.” 1 Corin 1
This begs the question: How do you know another person's wisdom is from God unless you know God?
ReplyDeleteIsn't that the primary reason for going to church? To be told how to think and what to believe? When you have a bible study with friends in a small group, you discuss ideas and individual understanding of biblical text and try to come to a consensus. When you go to church, you are told what the bible says. You are not asked your opinion or whether you agree or not. In fact, if you don't agree, then you are most likely back slidden and out of the will of God, and quite possibly not a Christian at all. Please forgive my early morning sarcasm.
ReplyDelete"...the biblical approach to thinking is to inherit godly ideas and beliefs from the godly ones who have gone before, namely Christ"
ReplyDeleteMay 17, 2011 8:06 AM
Good thing he changed it. Many who have gone before, who are listed as saved by faith, did not show a lot of "godly wisdom" such as David, Abraham, etc.
Would you follow David as an example for marriage? Or even Abraham who handed his wife over to be the king's concubine?
I don't like to think.
ReplyDeleteIt is nice to know that God placed men there to think for me.
I am excited to know that these men are thinking like Jesus.
I am confident that these men will never lead me astray.
It is fun being a sheep.
Isn't that the primary reason for going to church? To be told how to think and what to believe? When you have a bible study with friends in a small group, you discuss ideas and individual understanding of biblical text and try to come to a consensus. When you go to church, you are told what the bible says. You are not asked your opinion or whether you agree or not. In fact, if you don't agree, then you are most likely back slidden and out of the will of God, and quite possibly not a Christian at all. Please forgive my early morning sarcasm.
ReplyDeleteMay 17, 2011 8:14 AM
You make an excellent point. What you see in the building called a "church" is not really the Body of Christ functioning. It is extremely dangerous to listen to one man week after week tell you what scripture says and means.
And if you study on your own deeply, then you want more meat than what is offered by the paid pastor. You long for those who want to go deeper with you.
The fact that we think "church" is one guy teaching week after week should tell us how far we are from what was intended. The eye is saying to the hand: I have no need of YOU, I only need the guy speaking.
I don't like to think.
ReplyDeleteIt is nice to know that God placed men there to think for me.
I am excited to know that these men are thinking like Jesus.
I am confident that these men will never lead me astray.
It is fun being a sheep.
May 17, 2011 8:17 AM
Perfect description of 90% of what passes for Christian in the West.
I can see that they guy has a decent point to make. He just makes it inelegantly. Sometimes pastors want to be provocative and instead are just silly.
ReplyDeleteWilliam
Wade Burleson > Oh! Why Should the Spirit of Mortal Be Proud?
ReplyDeleteWade Burleson > The Duty of Harsh Criticism: It Humbles the Proud and Sharpens the Culture
I'm waiting for Mac to break out and dress his holy men with capes and crowns so the crowd knows who the wise men are.
ReplyDeleteAs one said it is cultish to think this way, and more sad that people actually believe them.
What is truth? Everyone likes to think they know truth, especially a preacher. But no one actually knows "the truth" about everything. Preachers have to pretend that they believe what they say and then they have to convince, persuade, and otherwise brow beat "the flock" into going along. And the sweet spot for any preacher is when they get a congregation that believes their preacher is uniquely called of God, that what he says is straight from God, and that their church is unique, i.e., the best, and every other church comes up short. If you are a pastor and you are going to build a church that will grow, you have to be arrogant, cocky, and self-righteous. The very last thing you can be is humble. As long as you agree with the pastor/preacher man, he can then pretend to be a humble servant. When you question him, watch out.
ReplyDeleteA Shephard protects...
ReplyDeleteA Shephard provides...
A Shephard discerns...
A Shephard is in charge.
If you don't want to be a Sheep..
No Problem....
That means YOU are a GOAT!!!!!
That's not good, that's Badddddddd
Ravi Zacharias might disagree seeing he has a radio program called "Let My People Think".
ReplyDeleteMethinks some take biblical metaphors too far. Perhaps they really believe the Kingdom is a woman who lost a coin.
ReplyDeleteThe bigger problem is that their hero's are sheep, too, according to the Word. They are also "Brides". :0) (They hate that one and never speak of it)
"A Shephard is in charge."
ReplyDeleteBe careful. Rebecca was a shepherdess. So were Moses' daughters.
Also, the significance of "shepherd" is lost on many who do not understand how the 1st Century believer would understand it.
they were the low of the low. Uneducated and not the strong ones who could do hard labor. Usually young boys and even girls.
"I need no other argument,
ReplyDeleteI need no other plea.
It is enough that Jesus died,
And that he died for me."
Florence in KY
WD,
ReplyDeleteI'm encouraged by your blog. I have the same background as many on here, and I think more and more people are starting to question things. Like, "Hmm, why do we have a pastor? Why do we listen to a sermon? What is our money used for? Why is thinking for yourself discouraged?"
I think these are great things. People who think for themselves are very hard to control. The preachers should be paying attention and thinking also. Maybe they have something to learn FROM THE SHEEP.
Don't think for yourselves??? That is EXACTLY what the Watchtower teaches the JW's - to 'avoid independant thinking' (see Watchtower 1/15/83) In contrast to this, the Bible tells us "come now, let us reason together" (Isaiah 1:18). And of course we all know about the Bereans searching for themselves to check Paul's words (Acts 17:11) Now why would these "pastors" tell people NOT to do what the Bible itself says to do?? THIS is exactly why thinking is so crucial to the true Christian; so you'll know the false teachers when you come across them. If I heard a 'pastor' tell me that I would be gone. Absolutely shameful! Truly we are in the last days.
ReplyDeleteD
Fundamentalism and neuthetic counseling models such as that which Rush follows can be very harmful. We are allowed to "think" and it is OK to question. After all, isnt that exactly what brough about the reformation? But then again, maybe a new reformation of the Western Institutionalized Church is taking place and these men are desperate to halt it.
ReplyDeleteWD:
ReplyDeleteIf I am to allow Pastor Brunson to teach me how to think....I will become a great history teacher and story teller just like him.
This past Sunday morning service, we heard Brunson talk about his knowledge and wisdom on many subjects EXCEPT the WORD of God!
He spoke for over 20 minutes without ever referring to the Scriptures and even stated that he doesn't think most Christians get the true meaning of whatever it was he was talking about...I never did figure out what he was referring to.
But I do know this...The reason many do not understand the Scriptures is because of preachers like him...too many stories and no Scripture lesson.
I also noticed several couples and families leaving long before the service was over! We were one of the couples. Why stick around for gibberish when we can read the Word of God at home and get a lot more than Brunson gives FBC?
"May 17 - 3:28 P.M."
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with everything you said. That was no sermon. It seemed to be a show of Brunson's knowledge of psychology. People left all around us and finally a member of our family could stand it no longer and they left too.
Brunson embarrasses himself Sunday after Sunday, by coming in late and not knowing what has gone on before he arrived. Jim Whitmire did a masterful job of introducing the polititians and the thing with Mike Hogan was an embarrassment.
How long before we get a full time pastor?
We're not supposed to be Berans any longer? Who knew?
ReplyDeleteI'm going to continue to search the scriptures because THAT is where the real wisdom is.
In talking about learning from those holy men and women who have gone before, does that include all Christians.
ReplyDeleteCatherine of Sienna, who told a Pope to get back to Rome, or people like Jerome, the Bible translator, might be good examples.
"I also noticed several couples and families leaving long before the service was over! We were one of the couples."
ReplyDelete"People left all around us and finally a member of our family could stand it no longer and they left too."
That's funny. You must have not been at the same service as me. I was up in the choir loft and did not see the "mass exodus" of which you speak.
All I saw was the same folks that have always left early since Lindsay so they could get their seat at the local food joints.
I hear that Brother Keith is accepting disgruntled fbcjax members.
Ah the always popular “if you don’t like it leave” response. What a great attitude. What a witness. Just skip over that whole one lost sheep thing and concentrate on the 99, 98, 97, 96……
ReplyDeleteInteresting that Mac was speaking of his psychology knowledge. That might explain the methods he's used to try to control and manipulate the FBC Jax flock. Interesting indeed....
ReplyDeleteWhen I read this post, I can't help but think back to Jonestown. The people were manipulated and brainwashed into thinking that Jim Jones was "God's man" and that they had to believe and follow everything he said, which formed a cult. Encouraging one's congregation to not think for themselves promotes an extreme amount of ignorance and closed-mindedness. Most Baptists, like the ones at FBC Jax, are so deep rooted in dogmatic traditions and false doctrines that they do not see the truth of the Gospel. Critical thinking is essential to any church goer these days considering the amount of corruption in today's church. In the end, God and His Word should be the only things we look to for guidance and wisdom.
ReplyDeleteThere is only one good word for this "hogwash". Those that have gone on to Heaven would tell us today, to "try the spirits". Study Gods word for ourselves. We are not to hand over our spiritual discernment to another to tell us what "he" thinks we should know about the word. If this were true we would all be at the same spiritual level. We would only know what the preacher told us. God has provided His Holy Word for all of us to study, that we might know Him. As far as learning from pastors today, its a total blank. They are so in awe of themselves that they believe everything they say is of God. Ninety percent of what comes from preachers today is a total waste of time. I do not discount people walking out of the services. If you are observant, a lot of people are not present at the evening or mid-week services. What inspires people of faith is a sermon from the Bible not history, not psychology, or humanism, nor the self-professed wisdom of the so called preacher. We get that everyday at work and it is boring to say the least. Many times we have the case of the amateur student trying to be the authority, over the seasoned believer who knows Gods Word. This is sad, embarassing and quite prevalent today. Thus churches are losing members because they do not meet any needs of the people.
ReplyDeleteStudy Gods word for ourselves. We are not to hand over our spiritual discernment to another to tell us what "he" thinks we should know about the word.
ReplyDeleteThis is difficult for people to understand? They are receiving their elaborate stories from the seminary pastor. No change can come from hearing these soft messages.
I know this is off topic, but check out the news from Caner -
ReplyDeletehttp://www.erguncaner.com/2011/05/17/arlingtonbiblecollege/
Taking the lies and decption from Virginia to Texas
The "Brother Keith" the FBC Jax Choir Member is referring to is a tongue in cheek reference to the pastor at Westside Baptist Church. Several people like to post here to make references to Keith or to "WBC Jax" because they know we are members there. Being FBC Jax members they haven't talked to me or our friends (their pastor tells them to have nothing to do with the factious troublemakers), otherwise they would know we haven't worshipped there in almost a year. It is just their lame attempt to try to hurt me or embarrass me or to harm that church by referring to me as a member. The fact is WBC Jax is an awesome church, Brother Keith is a wonderful preacher and a very nice man. He extended much love and grace to me and to my wife when we first joined back in 2009. The members were so very friendly and accepting of us. We don't worship there for some other personal reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with the fellowship or the pastors or staff.
ReplyDeleteSo go ahead, FBC Jax Choir Member and the phony "Former WBC Jax Member" and make your references to WBC Jax and Brother Keith, etc. You aren't hurting me or them one bit. You are just showing your vindictiveness in making references to them in your posts.
:)
"The fact is WBC Jax is an awesome church, Brother Keith is a wonderful preacher and a very nice man."
ReplyDeleteI do not disagree. We left (Long before you got there) to join a small non-denominational bible church and was tired of the whole mega church scene and all of the encumbrances associated with it.
And like you we find everyone there very supportive.
What do you expect from Calvinist?
ReplyDeleteThey follow and idolize a man, John Calvin, who studied and based his doctrine on someone who was a Catholic and who was "boinked" a Catholic Saint.
That Saint? Augustine.
You can read it for yourselves here at :
www.thecultbuster.blogspot.com
Very interesting article and series