Mac Brunson has just completed a grueling 5-month long series on the book of Job, which focused on how to handle criticism and tough times, especially if you're a mega church pastor. One of the primary lessons God taught Mac through his study of Job? Be careful what you say to people.
"God has spoken to my heart out of the book of Job: I should be very careful what I say to people. I should be very careful how I talk to people...many of you are struggling and going through difficulty and hardship right now....from my heart I want to say that to you: I deeply regret if I've ever offended you...if you speak as speak as much as I speak you're going to say some goofy things from time to time."
Yes, we should watch what we say. Too bad it took Mac to read through the book of Job to figure THAT one out.
Why is he saying sorry? There must have been some sort of offense that would cause him to do this. Could it be the week before when he said he never really wanted to come to FBC Jax and be the pastor, and that the people of FBC Jax didn't call him to preach and "only Jesus can take me outta here"? Did the trustees tell him to get out there and apologize to the good people of FBC Jax that DID call him to preach at Jax, and that do give sacrificially to support his comfortable lifestyle, and that CAN remove him as pastor?
Maybe he was apologizing because he told the good people of FBC Jax that he has things he could be doing other than be their pastor. Well, no offense there really because they already knew that, as Mac has been busy doing those other things ever since he became pastor.
But thanks, Mac. We out here in Internet land and TV land tell you too, Mac...if we've ever blogged anything that has offended you, or written anything that offended you, we're truly sorry. We know you're going through difficulty and hardship as a mega church pastor. But if you blog as much as we do, we're bound to blog some goofy things from time to time. So we know you will forgive us, right?
:)
Why is he saying sorry? There must have been some sort of offense that would cause him to do this. Could it be the week before when he said he never really wanted to come to FBC Jax and be the pastor, and that the people of FBC Jax didn't call him to preach and "only Jesus can take me outta here"? Did the trustees tell him to get out there and apologize to the good people of FBC Jax that DID call him to preach at Jax, and that do give sacrificially to support his comfortable lifestyle, and that CAN remove him as pastor?
Maybe he was apologizing because he told the good people of FBC Jax that he has things he could be doing other than be their pastor. Well, no offense there really because they already knew that, as Mac has been busy doing those other things ever since he became pastor.
But thanks, Mac. We out here in Internet land and TV land tell you too, Mac...if we've ever blogged anything that has offended you, or written anything that offended you, we're truly sorry. We know you're going through difficulty and hardship as a mega church pastor. But if you blog as much as we do, we're bound to blog some goofy things from time to time. So we know you will forgive us, right?
:)
It amazing that you can take his apology and make light of it with your fake apology. You never know--he might actually have meant what he said.
ReplyDeleteBut then, maybe you actually meant what you said and that would be a good thing.
Indeed it's a fake apology - yes, he offended me when he put a ban against Mrs. Rich for coming on church property. When he makes a personal apology to the Rich family for slander & what he said in the newspaper, maybe then will I accept his apology.
ReplyDeleteHe came here as a bully preacher and is still one. His apology was nothing but trying to recover the negative attitue that the city of Jacksonville has against him and the church leaders.
May I add I do not know the Rich family, but sincerely appreciate the WD blog -truth has been spoken!
I for one will never go back there as long as he remains in the pulpit.
FBC Jax Watchdog (in his blog post) said: “Did the trustees tell him to get out there and apologize to the good people of FBC Jax that DID call him to preach at Jax, and that do give sacrificially to support his comfortable lifestyle, and that CAN remove him as pastor?”
ReplyDeleteThis brings up an interesting point: If the trustees of a church can discipline the said church’s Senior Pastor, then should the trustees of all churches which use the One Pastor Model of church government not make themselves publicly available as a “court of appeals” against the Pastor?
I think that, if congregations insist upon using the One Pastor Model of church government, establishing this new balance of power within the One Pastor Model of church government can help restrain Pastors from becoming authoritarian and manipulative.
Anon 10:43 - yes I make light of hi apology because it is absurd. We know when we say offensive things. If he is sincere why not mention specifically what he is talking about? It sounds like other public figures who put their foot in their mouth when making public statements and then issue a shallow "if what I said offended someone I'm sorry" . That is not an apology it is a CYA move. Sorry but I don't buy it and he shouldn't expect people to buy it because it sounds as shallow as my apology in this post.
ReplyDeleteShallowness does seem to be the overriding quality on this blog.
ReplyDeleteThis is not an apology. I have heard this one before. You issue a generic apology and if someone brings up anything to you, you can say "I apologized."
ReplyDeleteApologies need to be specific and personal directed to the person offended. Then, there must be an attempt at restitution, if appropriate.
This apology could cover anything from taking an overgenerous gift to insulting the wife of a deacon. Who know? And I think that may be the way he wants it.
I bet he is gotten some feedback that he has been a bit harsh or even weird. He was forced into this and now it can be dismissed. I don't buy it.
I agree with what the first anon said Tom. It's pretty disgusting that you would take Pastor Brunson's apology, make light of it, and sarcastically apologize in return. Are we back in preschool again?
ReplyDeleteFor all the times you blog on here calling for pastor's to do the right thing in their ministry, you should at least applaud Dr. Brunson for making a personal appeal of apology, not degrade the man and assasinate his character and integrity, even if you can't tell if his apology is sincere or not.
By the way you can't. Only God can look into man's heart. You and I can only take things at face value.
And when I take your response to his apology at face value, I see nothing but bad things Tom.
Anon spoketh:
ReplyDeleteShallowness does seem to be the overriding quality on this blog.
Can you cite an example to support your claim? Or is it just a case of your being upset against this expose' of issues? WD has used solid supporting documentation on this forum and pointed out some really stupid things from very well compensated leaders. Persons who should know better and yet display such shallow depths in their character.
OK, so which is it? Where is the example of shallowness on the WD side of the equation?
NEXT!
Shallowness is having a blog where you find something that some pastor somewhere has done that you don't like and blog about it.
ReplyDeleteShallowness is acting like you a spiritual expert on everything under the sun and in the church and degrading and ridiculing anyone who might disagree with you.
Shallowness is getting offended when a church chooses to exclude someone from their membership when you aren't a member of that church. That is called "taking up another's offense" and needs to be dealt with spiritually.
Shallowness on this blog is the constant attacking and ridiculing of Mac Brunson. Even if you don't agree with him, he's still a Christian brother and you are prohibited in Scripture from doing what is done on here far too often.
Hi Robert, hope you're well. I won't address your offensive and nutty accusation regarding character assignation. But perhaps as a Brunson defender on this issue you could shed some light as to what on earth he is apologizing for. Once we know, we certainly could know what apololgy he is seeking.
ReplyDeleteToo bad you actually place any amount of value on such a general apology that doesn't specify a person or an offense. You should expect much more from your pastor. We normally see these from celebrities who seek to cover their rear ends.
Sorry that would be "assassination"
ReplyDeleteDOG:
ReplyDeleteNotice the big "IF" that precedes his apology. "IF" I have offended anyone....
A genuine apology is given in person. Most people know when they have offended someone and they know precisely how and why they offended in the first place.
Pretty lame apology....difficult to believe it is sincere.
Dee said: This is not an apology. I have heard this one before.
ReplyDeleteProbably here ... Caner's "Apology": "I Have Never Intentionally Misled Anyone"
Definition:
ReplyDeleteShallow - Lacking depth of intellect, emotion, or knowledge
Sorry but your examples do not fit the definition of the word.
Your examples are just subjects that you are in disagreement on, and a few ad hominem attacks.
Try again.
I've been watching this blog since Mac Brunson pulled his "mail is missing" pretext to obtain a warrant.
ReplyDeleteMegalomaniac bullies like Brunson don't offer apology (even a weasel apology like that one) unless they're feeling some real heat.
Keep at it, WD. Redouble your efforts to smoke him out. I'll bet there's more going on than you can guess.
Make him beg for his job. Maybe the rest of the arrogant, wealthy preachers will start to change their ways and the church can be returned to to some semblence of honor.
I hope you're doing well too Tom. I saw you at the first Monday night Jags game. It was a good one! Let's hope the next one will produce the same results.
ReplyDeleteTo answer your question-Perhaps he's apologizing to you, Tom, for anything he's said that you've taken offense to over the years.
If that's the case, I would say he has no choice but to apologize in the pulpit. After all, how could he have apologized to you face to face when you refused to meet with him in person in a reconciliation meeting? Or when you fled the church in a cowardly fashion prior to being removed from the membership? And lastly, considering the fact that you watch him on the internet every Sunday to find things to blog about, I would say a public apology suited the occasion just fine.
But I could be wrong. Maybe the apology wasn't to you. If that is the case, then I would ask why you felt the need to write a blog about the apology? Or, why are you so offended by it? If he doesn't owe you an apology, then why care?
And lastly, considering the fact that you watch him on the internet every Sunday to find things to blog about, I would say a public apology suited the occasion just fine
ReplyDeleteOh, Mac clearly knows another (one of several) way to reach WD, via his computer monitor!.
"After all, how could he have apologized to you face to face when you refused to meet with him in person in a reconciliation meeting? Or when you fled the church in a cowardly fashion prior to being removed from the membership?"
ReplyDeleteThat is just priceless. Robert, you have your timeframes all confused.
How could he apologize to me prior to calling me a sociopath and mentally unstable, Robert? I left the church (not "fled") after we got our trespass papers, and then when the story broke about the JSO investigation, THEN he called me a sociopath. Would have been hard to apologize prior to the offense. Or maybe in your mind since I didn’t go to the discipline committee it was my fault he called me a sociopath to the news reporter.
Also, the "reconciliation meeting" that my wife and I were summoned to was with a discipline committee made up of men most of whom we did not know, it was not with Brunson. Mac himself testified to that. Again, that was all before he called me a sociopath. Mac is good, but he ain’t good enough to be able to ask for forgiveness before offending someone.
Also, Robert, you've believed the lie that A.C. Soud told about me in his infamous "Deacons Resolution 2009-1". He has led you and other lemmings at FBC Jax to believe that I fled after I was told they were taking me before the discipline committee to remove me from membership. That couldn't have been further from the truth. When my wife and I were handed trespass papers by Blount and King, we immediately began visiting churches. We had to. We had three kids and we wanted to worship just like you do, as we are all Christians. We landed at Westside Baptist Church, and after visiting for several weeks we joined in late January, early February. It was not until AFTER we joined, that John Blount contacted me to tell me that they were hauling my "case" to the deacons and then to the church to remove me from membership. We could do nothing else BUT find another church when we had trespass papers handed to us by our church that was our home for 15+ years. Nothing cowardly at all about my leaving, pal.
What was cowardly was how A.C. Soud and his minions handled me and my wife after they got my name from Hinson. What was cowardly was how they refused to tell me how they got my name. What was cowardly was them telling me that I would not be able to freely speak at the deacons meeting that I DID agree to attend. What was cowardly was Hinson not revealing that he was on the discipline committee at the time of the JSO "investigation". We only got that gem from Blount under deposition.
But that's ok, Robert, I know you and some others like you at FBC Jax believe what you are told, and that makes things easier for you to swallow when you see your church leadership embarrass the church.
WD I enjoy reading some of your articles and I don't like SBC Megachurches, but it seems unfair and vindictive to seize on these statements and ridicule them to this extent.
ReplyDeleteBy all means, continue to expose charlatans everywhere but I can't see the point in taking somebody's apology and deconstructing it with so much venom.
Exactly, that is why I issued my own blanket apology.
ReplyDelete:)
"Shallowness does seem to be the overriding quality on this blog.
ReplyDeleteANON:December 2, 2011 12:41 PM"
Yes, indeed.....ah, you are referring to the anonymous comments, right?
And, an "Amen!" to the person who pointed out the telling "IF...."
"If I offended you...."
Yeah, right. "If you are so thin-skinned, obtuse and generally devoid of humanity that your widdle feewings was hurt by my brilliant analysis of your shortcomings, I am SO SORRY..."
"IF" always precedes the pseudo-pology.
I hate to disagree with you but I've been reading your blog for a long time and I don't remember you saying any goofy things.
ReplyDeleteExactly....key word is "if"
ReplyDeleteMac Brunsons legacy will from now on be about the "blogger incident". Thats all people talk about when the Times Union writes an artical about him or First Baptist and it appears on their "Jacksonville.com" website and people comment after the story. All you have to do is go to wikipedia and type in "Mac Brunson" and see for yourself what they have said about the blogging incident. Kinda sad how Dr. Lindsay grew this church using only the guidance from the Holy Spirit instead of using a consulting firm to tell you how to run a church.
ReplyDeleteRobert, I believe Tiffany Thigpen wrote on her blog that she tried to arrange a meeting with Brunson and WD and it was Brunson who refused to meet, not Tom . Someone else ttoes to do the same thing but again, it was Brunson who refused to meet.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous 10:43, didn't take you long to chime in, did it?
ReplyDeleteAs far as the apology, there is no ownership in it. I know it may not be appropriate to list out every single moment, but at least mention one that would affect most of the people he is talking to.
An apology followed up with an excuse is still not an apology. You speak too much? How about cutting back on those speaking engagements to spend more time shepherding your flock, then maybe you will not say "goofy" things.
"I'm sorry if".
Translation =
I don't know if I have offended anyone, but just in case, here is an apology. He is either so shielded from his flock, or doesn't care enough (due to being busy) that he may not really know what he has done, but he knows he messed up somewhere.
Advice for Mac:
ReplyDelete"He that troubles his own house shall inherit the wind, and a fool shall be a servant to the wise of heart."
Proverbs 11:29
"Anon 10:43 - yes I make light of hi apology because it is absurd. We know when we say offensive things. If he is sincere why not mention specifically what he is talking about? It sounds like other public figures who put their foot in their mouth when making public statements and then issue a shallow "if what I said offended someone I'm sorry" . That is not an apology it is a CYA move. Sorry but I don't buy it and he shouldn't expect people to buy it because it sounds as shallow as my apology in this post."
ReplyDeleteOf course you don't take his apology at its worth because you have nothing but hate in your heart for the guy and are content with that hate. This blog is nothing but hate and that's all it has ever been or will be.
If I heard my pastor do a blanket apology, I'd simply wonder what the secrets were. I'd figure some people here know the issue he's talking about, and the rest of us are in the dark. I've never liked this idea of "secrets" in church, because it seems to go against what church is supposed to be about-open honesty, being straightforward, truly not wanting to hurt others, kindness.
ReplyDeleteI am very suspicious of a man who issues an apology while the whole time he is pointing and wagging his index finger. That makes it look like a forced apology that he didn't want to give.
ReplyDeleteWD, my friend. I apperciate all you have done to make light the deeds of the corporate church that are not congruent with Abba's heart. Control, power, egos, etc. This has been a part of the Church since its early beginnings. It will remain with us. With all the brokenness in the Church, it is no wonder the church (note little "c") uses western marketing and business models to reach people. Doesn't work. But, it is all they know.
ReplyDeleteNow to the apology. Anyone who teaches in the area of relationships and specifically, the area of forgiveness would agree that true forgiveness names its sin and seeks to make things right with the offended. The Scriptures DO NOT teach make an apology but to seek forgivness. These are not the same. ("Sorry is as sorry does." (Sally fields in Forrest Gump).
I believe Mac to be a good man with good intentions. I also believe he, like Joel Gregory wrote in his book, Too great A Temptation, that these men (Joel included himself) seek power and prestige rather than ministry at their level).
Was Mac's "apology" genuine? Who knows? He and Abba does. However, an "apooogy" is to name the offense to the Offended, and seek restitution. This is and always will be the biblical model for seeking forgiveness (1 Cor. 7:10) Godly sorrow leads to repentance. Where there is no godly sorry, there is no true repentance.
Anon,
ReplyDeleteWhy would Pastor Brunson say yes to a meeting with Tom set up by Ms. Thigpen?
Ms. Thigpen had nothing to do with the situation. It was Tom who should have went to Pastor Brunson himself in the first place to air out his grievances.
For once there is some truth being said by the posters.
ReplyDeleteI would like to apologize IF I offend anyone by saying that R.P. and certain other commenters on this blog can't think past their nose.
ReplyDeleteListen you bunch of kool-aid guzzling Brunsonites...this blog is not about hate, contains no hate and is only in existance to inform you mindless people of what is really going on at FBC Jax. Ok...defend your "Pastor" and defend your church...I get it. Hey, how about standing up for the truth?? What a novel idea...the truth coming from your church! NEWS FLASH...the truth hasn't been coming out of FBC Jax for about, hmmmm...almost 5 years now...
ReplyDeleteDefend someone worth defending!!! It sickens me what has happened downtown...Dr. Lindsay is rolling over in his grave! The 'Dog is just being vigilant in saying what most of the clueless people at FBC can't see or won't say...in fear of the circumstances that will arise if they do!! He's paid his price...holy crap...we're just talking about a CHURCH right?? You'd think someone betrayed America the way these downtown thugs act!!
Go 'Dog...report, report, report...
some of us have eyes that are wide open!
Robert, I think the real question is why would the pastor refuse attempts to reconcile a bad situation? He had the opportunity to do so twice in a Biblical manner at the request of other Christians who were trying to see things handled according to Matt 18. Prior to those requests the pastor could have claimed he didn't know who it was that he needed to attempt reconciliation with. So we know that he flat out refused to try and reconcile with a brother. That refusal flies in the face of scripture. Don't get all immature and say it wasn't his responsibility . To him that knoweth to do good and doeth it not, it is sin.
ReplyDeleteTobie Tyler:
ReplyDeleteGreat Post! As you stated we agree:
"Go 'Dog...report, report, report...
some of us have eyes that are wide open!
What is wrong with that apology Watchdog..he actually sounds like he means it,...gosh watchdog, YOU need to be careful when you make fun of someone apologizing and I think that IS in the Bible.
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, the Holy Spirit convicts us of specifics so we can not only learn and repent but go to those offended with specifics .
ReplyDeleteSo Mac issues a blanket apology....for saying what, exactly?
at least your apology made me giggle :) ...
ReplyDelete