Given that Ergun Caner is now aggressively trying to wipe the Internet of damaging video of his decade of deceit, let's do a compare and contrast of Paula Deen to Ergun Caner:
Paula Deen, TV personality - verus Ergun Caner, Baptist personality.
Who would you hold to a higher standard? A TV chef, or a Baptist Preacher
You would think we would hold Caner to a higher standard, especially since he is so popular as a youth retreat preacher.
But sadly, our culture apparently holds Paula Deen to a much higher standard than we do a Baptist preacher who spends his summers preaching to young skulls of mush at youth retreats.
Below are examples of Ergun Caner's racial and ethnic stereotypes he perpetuated from the pulpit over the last decade for which he was never held accountable for, or made to apologize for. Why did he get a pass on these? Probably because he spoke them AFTER he was able to convince audiences after 9/11 that he himself was some sort of minority - an immigrant "Turk", and "olive skinned" person - and thus he made these comments in that false context of being a minority himself.
I will say this: there WAS one person I know of who has called on Caner to apologize for his remarks, and that was Pastor Dwight McKissic. Dwight correctly called Caner to apologize to FBC Jax after he made remarks back in 2009 perpetuating stereotypes of blacks and Hispanics.
Examples of Caner's ethnic slurs, from the pulpit, including the ones at Jacksonville:
1. Racial stereotypes of African American and Hispanic worshippers - 2009 - Jacksonville, Florida
You can watch the video here.
"Anybody that's ever been to a black church....they took up 12 offerings. Apparently they go back in the back and count it and if it isn't enough they gonna take it up again....Boy, you go to a black church, gentlemen, you ain't just gonna have on a blue suit, your shoes are gonna match your suit, and your handkerchief is going to match your tie, and the whole outfit is going to match your car....And ladies: when we talk about black church, we're talkin' about hats. And I'm not just talkin' Easter hats as some of you may wear, I'm talkin' 'bout satellite dish hats. Big enough to receive a signal, with a curtain rod goin' down the front that you can just pull the curtain across. "
"How many of you ever been to a Hispanic church? Some kind of worship
there. That's whole man worship - body, soul, and spirit. In the middle
of the song, you may recognize the hymn, you don't know what they're
sayin', but in the middle of a song they'll bust out with a
BLEEEEEEYAHHHHHHHH."
2. Racial Stereotypes of Mexicans - Seattle, Washington - 2007 or 2008 (listen to audio here)
"The Mexican students and I get along real well. They're my boys. I always joke with 'em, I say 'Man, if I ever adopt, I want to adopt a Mexican because I need work done on my roof and, and uh, I got a big lawn."
3. Racial Stereotypes of Mexicans - Ohio Free Will Baptist Men's Retreat - 2007
"And now my people come here - the olive-skinned
come here - four times faster than any other people group except for the
Mexicans and we're not in the back of Chevys."
4. Racial Stereotypes of Muslims - Ohio Free Will Baptist Men's Retreat - 2007
"His whole family was thrilled when the 'towel head' showed up at the door [to date his daughter]."
"I wasn't in any rush [to get married]. Turkish women have better mustaches than Turkish men."
5. Demeaning Women - Ohio Free Will Baptist Men's Retreat - 2007
"Do you believe in women behind the pulpit? Why of course, how else are they going to vacuum back there unless they get behind it?"
4. Female Self-Esteem, making fun of "ugly" girls - Gainesville, Westside Baptist Church - June 2013
"A single preacher in churches is like blood to sharks, because in those country churches they would drag out mutant granddaughters out of closets for me...this ain't much to look at [himself] but I didn't want to marry a female of this [point to his face]....finally they would say 'I know the perfect one for him' and then she'd pull her out [of the closet], 'come here Bullah' [then he makes barking noises]."
So that is another aspect of the Ergun Caner legend and mystique...he can get away with the above nonsense, even as recently as last week at Westside Baptist Church in Gainesville.
And Paula Deen, you obviously picked the wrong field - you could have freely used racial and ethnic and even sexist stereotypes if you had become a Baptist preacher/seminary professor/youth camp leader.
Oh, but wait, you're a woman, so that might exclude you in the SBC ranks....
One word to describe Caner: Shameful.
ReplyDeleteNice job tying the hot news to your current infatuation. Should be worth another 72 cents of ad revenue.
ReplyDeleteLooks like Peter Lumpkins has much to say about this posting
ReplyDeletehttp://peterlumpkins.typepad.com/peter_lumpkins/2013/06/fbcjax-watchdogs-jason-smathers-and-financially-supporting-a-convicted-felon.html
Not much gospel being preached lately. However lots of deeply held bias and opinions coming forth at a much quicker rate lately from the "Big Speakers for Jesus".
ReplyDeleteThere is always So Much truth in the "throw away phrases" people say if you listen...But didnt anyones mama ever teach them "not everyone needs to hear everthing in your head?" Good or Bad / Right or Wrong.
I am puzzled why so many are becoming so bold with this stuff.
Touching on an earlier blog of what to say/think/eat/drink. Ive just been informed that our old church's Preschool has banned The watching of Veggie Tales due to it "not being doctrinally/ theologically sound"!!? Not making it up! Not that I think ministry teachers should simply pop in videos rather than teach and love kids but that was NOT the reason given. Its about Bob and Larrys doctrine. HaHaHaHaHa...ooops I just wet myself!!!!
Lumpkins is so one sided - I commented on his post with the following -
ReplyDelete"While I do not agree with Watchdogs stance on tithing to your church, I do understand his frustration with preachers that do nothing but ask for money and I do also understand his frustration with the holier than everyone pastors. I think as a follower of Christ, it is my duty to provide support, even financially, to further cause of Christ and to help spread the word of God.
I do not have an issue with a pastor taking care of his family and being able to retire and have a nest egg, but does a man of God need to live in a gated community or fly on a private jet?
I do not see what is wrong with supporting a cause you believe. If Rich believes in Smathers, then by all means he should have the right on his blog to ask others for help. You believe in Caner and you offer your support on your blog.
Do I believe Smathers testimony is amazing? No, but I do believe it is more genuine than the testimony of Caner. I do not believe it was made up and yes he probably should have mentioned he server 15 months, but one thing is for sure, I have never read or heard different versions of the Smathers testimony. That can not be said about Caner.
I attended the church Caner pastored in Aurora Colorado for a few years while he was there. Never, did he mention coming to America at 15! Never did he mention growing up to do what was done on 9/11! Never did he mention his father having many wives. He always said his father and mother were divorced and his father remarried and disowned him when he became a Christian. He was not the persona he is now. He was in fact a jerk and was always stand-offish until he wanted something. Cross him and he would do what ever he could to get rid of you. Do not believe me, ask Tom Zornes, his former youth pastor!
If the Caner testimony is in fact genuine, why was it hidden until 9/11? If the Caner testimony is true, then why has it changed or been misrepresented so many times.
If the Caner testimony is so true and genuine, why is he trying to get rid of all evidence. Why sue Smathers? Smathers (and others) only posted what is readily available online to show what Caner has said in his own words and to show the discrepancies of his own words. Oh, since when does Caner own the copyright of something owned by the feds? This video is readily available to anyone using the freedom of information act.
At the end of the day, it is not up to me to judge and I do not think I have. I have simply presented the facts as I know them and asked simple questions. I feel duped by Caner, but I forgive him and I hope that others will do the same. "
I listed my name and email address as required and here is his response -
"
All
While I'm don't mind someone mentioning Ergun Caner in this thread since I obviously raised his name in my OP, I will not post extended rants about Dr. Caner on this thread for the simple reason this post is not about Caner. That's the mistake Bennett made above. Rather this post questions Rich and Smathers' painting over Smathers' criminal record and the discrepancies in his conversion experience. Comments that do not address these prominent themes stand a good chance of not being posted. And I'm certainly not going to post all the vindictive rants composed by the posse of emotional anons that hang around the FBCJax blog. If people want to spew or log ignorance and illogic, then by golly, theyre going to put their name to it..."
I put my name to it (name and email in the form) and it still did not get posted
I guess Peter Lumpkins can not be fair and objective !!
Ergun Caner and Peter Lumpkins... birds of a feather. Both liars.
ReplyDeleteLumpkins goes after Tom Rich but doesn't want anyone to mention Ergun Caner. Then he proceeds to criticize anyone who supported Jason Smathers, the 'convicted felon'. All the while trying to say that Jason didn't tell the truth about his past.
Nothing can surprise me about Lumpkins. He is not capable of even a tiny bit of fairness.
Since we all know that Lumpkins has purposely used videos of James White and outrageously misrepresented what White said, he is really in no position to be judging anyone. Jason Smathers did not alter the videos of Caner.
Caner and Lumpkins are two examples of why unbelievers flee Christians. Who could blame them?
Oops, I forgot. I defended Caner's right to engage in free speech by spending 20 plus years in the military.
ReplyDeleteYet, if I had said anything even close to being as racist and sexist as Caner has done while standing at the pulpit, I would have been discharged from the service. Yet Christians such as Lumpkins defend Caner.
Come Lord Jesus.
Katie, you are right on target regarding Lumpkins and Ergun Caner. Lumpkins is very biased and will not allow any one to question Caner's past. Lumpkins misrepresented Smathers and his continued coverup of Ergun Caner is a disgraced to the cause of Christ.
ReplyDeleteI now have confirmation that Lumpkins has no intention of being fair and objective. He has a blind side when it comes to recorded and documented abuse of children among SBC churches and as I learned today on twitter, he views people (women) like me as "reactionary" after I responded to him by providing links to criminal court documents, emails and news stories. Apparently doing this is "yelling" according to Peter. He doesn't seem to be able to handle questions regarding the practicality of his own resolution. While I appreciate the gravity of the SGM lawsuit that recently and rapidly captured his attention, where has Peter been in the last few years of documented cases of child sex abuse and coverup like happened at Prestonwood Baptist with Langworthy? When I asked him about the specific case of Langworthy, he said he wasn't going to "prematurely condemn." He doesn't seem to have had any hesitation speaking out on behalf of the SGM survivors and the lawsuit, so why not for survivors of abuse within his own SBC churches?
ReplyDeleteMike Williams, It seems pretty clear that the present Ergun Caner (who has become relatively famous--or infamous) emerged from the tragedy of 9/11. This is one of the slimey things that are clearly attached to EC. I suppose that it is also clear that his self-generated persona is all that he feels he how has going for himself and at this point, he may be right.
ReplyDeleteI hate to comment on Peter's site. I always feel that I have fallen into a green lake and that I come up with leaches and moss all over me. But sometimes he is so full of it that I just can't help myself.
Self control. Self control. :)
Sometimes I like to think about what must have gone through Ergun Caner's mind as he recognized that his story had the soft bones of something that might grow up to be really interesting--especially if it was "improved" a bit. I don't understand how he expected to not get caught, but it took several years. I suppose that it might not have happened if things had been just a little different.
ReplyDeleteSomething that I would like to have heard was the discussion that must have gone on between Ergun and Emir about "their" background. Remember that much of their "history" was common to both of the brothers. Funny that we don't hear much about it from Emir. He seems to have gotten off free--but surely it bothers him.
I don't find it strange that EC did not discuss his testimony to any degree in Aurora. Without embellishment it is just a Christian's testimony. But with some dramatic improvements, it is a business plan.
So then ... uh .. it's alright for ... uh .. a Christian to ... uh ... sue another Christian. And this same Christian claims to read the New Testament and live by it?!!!!
ReplyDeleteCan anyone spell a-p-o-s-t-a-s-y?
And does this word apply to the suing Christian or his Christian audiences?
Just thinking out loud.
Does Ergun's wife read these blogs? What about his kids when they get older? Dad, did you train in Jihad when you were a teenager? When did you come to America? In many of the videos you said you were a teenager in 1978 but then there is the documentation that you were but a toddler? Which is true?
ReplyDeleteMany of us wondered how long it would take for Lumpkins to show himself: he only got involved in that issue because it was a chance to embarrass Mohler. Now, Mohler is quite capable and is quite well embarrassing himself, but that's all Lumpkins wanted.
ReplyDeleteTry and pin him down about Patterson's actions, Vines' actions, or anyone not on his enemies list, and you'll see his true colors. Likewise with that other guy who backed him up at the SBC.
Their goal is not elimination of child abuse. It's elimination of the ones they disagree with.
At anonymous 5:57,
ReplyDeleteThat's exactly what I had suspected was the case...just go read Peter's twitter timeline to see his true colors, attacking me.
Peter Lumpkins? Really? Anybody take this guy serious? I mean, I have met children with more wisdom, discernment, and insight that pumpkin Lumpkin.
ReplyDeleteTo understand the why Ergun Caner gets promoted in spite of his actions and Lumpkins, et al ...
ReplyDelete1. Dunning–Kruger effect
2. Madoff's Affinity fraud.
It's all tribal folks. If Ergun Caner is part of one's tribe, then anything goes.
Amy:
ReplyDeleteI'm sad to say that I thought Mr. Lumpkins was sincere about his resolution, but I am not sure now. He most definitely was attacking you.
Amy he most definitely was attacking you verbally and that is also a type of abusive behavior. Does he have no shame for attacking you like that in a public forum?
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't believe Lumpy if he told me that there are seven days in a week.
ReplyDeleteAmy,
ReplyDeleteNobody takes Peter Lumpkins seriously. The only reason Lumpkins got on the band wagon against child abuse is because he saw it as a way to strike back at an enemy - Al Mohler. Do a quick search of YouTube and watch 2011 when Al Mohler verbally rips Lumpkins apart from the platform for a ridiculous charge Peter made about homosexuality and Mohler's alleged support of Jonathan Merritt. Anyway, that little fiasco embarrassed the fire out of Peter (he said as much to his friends) and he chose "child abuse" as his next trumpet concert in order to get back at Al Mohler for his association with CJ Mahaney. You have experienced Peter's true colors. Just wait. Once he's identified you as the enemy, anything you say will be denigrated, deleted (in Peter's bizarre world the word is 'non-published') or diminished. Keep it up, Amy, you are on to something. You will find Peter Lumpkins cares little about child abuse and much about getting even.
I'm hoping Caner fades into the oblivion that is Arlington Baptist College. If the media coverage will stop, perhaps that will happen.
ReplyDeleteI don't have any idea who Lumpkins is, nor do I care to know. It sounds like he has as little credibility as Caner.
What either of these two also-rans says does not create even a speed bump in my daily living.
Amy, Peter Lumpkins is a despicable mean-spirited man. He doesn't give two bean sprouts about child abuse. His goal is always personal. He detests Calvinism and it seems that wherever you find Lumpkins publicly trying to hurt people, you will find reformed theology. What do Al Mohler, James White, C.J. Mahaney all have in common?
ReplyDeleteEver wonder why he doesn't go after Paige Patterson for his involvement in the whole Daryl Gilyard affair?
I have never read anything that Lumpkins puts out that shows a scintilla of Christian love. Nothing whatsoever. But, the most detestable thing he has done , to my way of thinking, is to use abused children as a way to spread his venom against those he places in his target sights.
I try very hard not to judge another person’s relationship with Christ. It’s all I can do to manage my own. But the scriptures teach us that there is little in the Christian’s domain that should countenance liars. Ergun Caner is a liar. That’s a fact and all the lawsuits in the world won’t change that. Still, Caner should be extended forgiveness if he repents. He hasn’t. In fact, he is stirring up more strife. All of this Caner nonsense had pretty much settled down. Jason Smathers and James White didn’t re-bring up Caner’s lies. Caner did.
1 Corinthians 5:11 says “But I actually, wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler - not to even eat with such a one.” Christian churches who continue to use Caner in their programs are in opposition to the scriptures.
If Peter Lumpkins is against you, count it all joy. You know right from wrong and are on the right side of the Christian teachings.
Amy,
ReplyDeleteJoin the club. I asked Peter a sincere question via Twitter (He was caricaturing Calvinism in an unfair light). One can believe what they want about theological systems, but at least be honest in your disagreements. When I asked him, he EXPLODED. He then blocked me from his Twitter account. When I posted on his comments section the other day, he said I would no longer be able to post there. I haven't slept in a few days (sarcasm).
Lumpkins has an agenda. His logic is skewed. He can't dialogue with anyone without resorting to insults and talking down to others.
Justin
Lumpkins seems to want to focus only on SGM ties, like is this directed just at Mohler? Weeks ago when I first heard about his resolution, I tried several times to submit a comment on his blog encouraging that the light of truth also shine on documented abuse and cover up WITHIN the SBC, like at Prestonwood, but he never would publish any of those comments. He calls pointing to CRIMINAL court documents detailing child sex abuse of children within MS and TX Baptist churches (one Prestonwood victim came forward to MS prosecutors) "emotional jump-to conclusions" yet he drafted a resolution after reading the SGM civil lawsuit? http://www.scribd.com/doc/117329773/Langworthy-State-s-Response
ReplyDeleteLangworthy pleaded guilty in Jan. 2013 and received a 50 year suspended sentence. He's not in jail. It's critical that Prestonwood still call police in Dallas to report the known abuse that occurred there and support the already 2 survivors from Prestonwood who have contacted police in Dallas and Plano in the last few months. Why won't anyone among the SBC who supported this resolution speak out for them?
Amy:
ReplyDeleteYou said:"Why won't anyone among the SBC who supported this resolution speak out for them?"
I've been SBC for 39 years and sadly I have learned many of the SBC resolutions where just that and nothing takes place afterwards.
I hope I'm wrong but I'm inclined to believe the 2013 Resolution was a PR item for the SBC.
Stop Baptist Predators [Christa Brown] > SNAP responds to Southern Baptist abuse resolution
ReplyDelete"The Southern Baptist Convention has passed a resolution urging people to report child sex crimes to law enforcement. Big deal.
This is a virtually worthless 'feel good' public relations move that basically protects no one. Brave action, not vague resolutions, stops crimes against kids."
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteLooks like Peter Lumpkins has much to say about this posting
QUESTION: Who the heck is Peter Lumpkins?
Peter Lumpkins' puckered lips are firmly attached to the hindquarters of the Very Reverend Jerry Vines.
ReplyDeleteLumpy's "publishing company" just published a book in Vines' honor.
Vines is a friend and supporter of Prestonwood.
Ergo, Lumpkins is not going to say anything negative about Prestonwood.
Ergo.
ReplyDeleteA bit of an update on Ergun Caner. Caner reported a DMCA against a video that James White produced which clearly demonstrates Caner's serial lying. As could be protected, YouTube took the video down. James White provided the appropriate evidence against Caner's complaint.
ReplyDeleteYouTube restored the video. Here it is:
http://aomin.org/aoblog/index.php?itemid=5478
"Innocent before the Consistory. Bullies/Trolls: I Fight Back"
ReplyDeleteErgun Mehmet Caner @erguncaner
I don't know why no one asks Emir where he was born and when. This question would be followed by, "Did your entire family live in Ohio at that time?"
ReplyDeleteWhat would Emir say????
I guess interviewers are just too polite.
"I Fight Back"
ReplyDeleteMust be his Muslim background/training kicking in?
But Ergun Caner preaches Christianity?
"Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!"
Ho Ho Ho
Take a look at this new ebook: "The New Protestant Reformation"
ReplyDeletehttp://lglpministries.com/eBooks/The%20NEW%20Protestant%20Reformation.pdf
The church is going to have to change if it is to survive in the future.
Judge, Rebuke and Shun:
ReplyDeletehttp://lglpconnect.com/2013/06/21/judge-rebuke-and-shun-2/
English is not his first on second lanuage I have heard him speak and to me it's his only language! LOL
ReplyDeleteUPDATE ALREADY!!!
ReplyDeleteUnrelated, but possibly of interest - New Reality Show About Rich Pastors
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDh-hE2OLvM
Greetings All,
ReplyDeleteObviously one is not in possession of all the private facts but the evidence would appear to indicate that this has all the elements of a pair of weak-willed and insecure individuals unable to prevent themselves succumbing to the temptation of Mammon and then lacking the strength of purpose to use the only viable exit door available to them – the one marked redemption.
The transition from E. Michael Caner before 2001 to Ergun Mehmet Caner, after 9/11, would appear to indicate a path traveled from self-consciousness and embarrassment about true identity to an over-amplified and over-blown, very public and somewhat disingenuous rejection of that self-same identity, fueled at least in part by the temptation of Mammon.
The saddest thing of all, in my view, is that, without the lies, there is, in all likelihood, an eminently believable, simple, genuine tale of a failed marriage, a broken home, an unhappy atmosphere, burdened souls, a confused identities and an unfulfilled hunger to belong, which all combined to trigger a search for meaning that ultimately led Ergun and Emir to the Church. The problem is that, for the independent observer, the impenetrably thick fog of lies render the discernment, identification and isolation of any indisputable truths whatsoever in this unhappy narrative, a less than straight forward task.
Interesting side debate about Emir Caner. Even more interesting side debate - there are, in fact, three Caner brothers. Has anyone ever given any thought as to why so little mention is ever made of Erdem Caner? Would it be beyond the bounds of possibility that there's actually an honest Caner brother?
Erdem Caner is a financial adviser (or something like that in Ohio). How honest could he be if he is going along with the lies and not calling his brothers to be honest and live with some sort of integrity. It is my understanding that some of this has caused issues between some of the family on his wife's side and Ergun over the lies and the way he acts. However, I can not say for certain, but could see this as being truthful.
ReplyDeleteBrothers cannot force brothers to be honest, upright, and principled ...sisters cannot do that for sisters either. The best the Erdem Caner can do is to live a life of honest and principled actions and stay out of his brothers' misdeeds. If asked, he should be truthful about their family in the early years; otherwise, he is best left out of this discussion. Emir, and certainly Ergun, appear to be frauds.
ReplyDelete