So Perry gave everyone $1.10 in a plastic bag.
Then after he told them that if they truly love God they will tithe - Perry invited them all to demonstrate their committment to tithe by tithing on the $1.10 given to them, and dropping the dime in a bucket and keeping the dollar bill.
But there is one problem: that dime did not represent a tithe.
You see, if I give you $1.10, and you only return ten cents back to me, you are short of the 10% tithe. You would have to return to me 11 cents to give me a tithe of the $1.10.
Giving $0.10 on a $1.10 gift is only a 9.1% return - thus you have robbed God, and have brought cursings upon yourself. So says Perry, right?
So Perry, the church members who dropped the dime in the bucket were actually demonstrating their willingness to rob God and be cursed. And they didn't even know it - you misled them into disobeying God, and have subjected them to the cursings of God.
You think I'm being silly?
No more silly than Perry claiming that non-tithers are robbing God and inviting God's cursings. After all if what Perry preaches on the tithe is actually true - then indeed these people who only returned 9.1% on a $1 gift all robbed God when they thought they were obeying.
In other words, once again, Perry misled his people about the tithe.
The silliness that these "pastors" engage in in "their" churches is beyond sad because each one of these "pastors" has a following and many church members will do what they are told to do by their "pastor".
ReplyDeleteHe misleads people about a lot of things...
ReplyDeleteSadly, these people are already cursed...by having Perry Noble as their "pastor".
ReplyDeleteThese mega-church pastors all use the same formula.
ReplyDeleteI would just ask Perry Noble, how can you trust God to forgive all of your sins but not trust him that he will provide for the church without extracting money from people using a doctrine that is not part of the new covenant?
I think these tithing sermons speak more to the lack of faith on the part of these preachers than anything else.
You know Jax, I read this stuff and just become incensed. This is abuse. It's not even spiritual abuse as much as it is plain ole abuse. Yet these churches seem to be growing and thriving. Why are people attracted to churches that beat the heck out of them? I don't get it.
ReplyDeleteThese are tactics that cults use if you read about James Jones or David Kiresh or any other cult leader. People need to simply get up and walk out of these churches who teach curses or any other form of God's wrath that Christ paid for on the cross.
This teaching goes against the passages of the widow who willingly gave her last money as well as God loves a cheerful giver.
"Why are people attracted to churches that beat the heck out of them? I don't get it."
DeleteExcellent point Debbie, I don't get it either! But neither did the Apostle Paul, concerning the Corinthian church, and their willingness to allow false teachers (aka "Super Apostles") to take financial advantage of them as well:
2 Corinthians 12:13 (NLT)
The only thing I didn't do, which I do in the other churches, was to become a burden to you. Please forgive me for this wrong!
I guess it's a case of: "mad believer disease," the greater the advantage taken, the greater the willingness to support!
Grace & Peace
Amen
ReplyDeleteSo technically you're wrong about Perry having bad math skills and leading his church to "rob God". If you were actually there the dime and the dollar were used for an example. He wasn't saying 10% of 1.10 is 10 cents. As a guide he was teaching us that for every dollar we bring back one dime to God. It's all Gods in the beginning anyways.
DeleteHow typically tasteless of Perry Noble, to use the lingo of drug dealers in his teaching point. Really? A a "dime bag" refers to a $10 bag of marijuana. So, to follow on to his analogy, is Perry the dealer who supplies his sheep with an addicting substance from which they prove their wisdom by tithing from it to God? Perry is addicted-- to money and power.
ReplyDeleteI've just about come to the conclusion that people enjoy being deceived. There is something about these celebrity, spiky-haired preachers that makes people want to open their wallets and check their brains at the door.
ReplyDeleteWell, I'll tell you what it is. It's a seducing spirit. These preachers are as good at seducing the congregation as Hugh Hefner is with tempting men to look at the latest centerfold.
What is the bogus need in a person's life that requires such foolishness? Are people so empty that they are willing to follow any new doctrine or any new trend that walks through the door?
The fact that these "preachers" can attract hundreds and even thousands of people is a testament to the lost condition of this culture. It's the same reason that vulgarity reigns in Hollywood and why Grammy Award performances rooted in witchcraft are praised by the elite.
People are really looking for Jesus, but they try to fill the void in their soul with everything else that shines like new money. My Southern grandmother always told me:
"Every that shines is not gold.......and everything that blooms does not smell good!"
Perry Noble is either
ReplyDelete- not even clever enough to calculate the percentages or
- cynical enough to think his sheeple ere too stupid to notice.
Classy as ever, Perry.
I watched this whole sermon and I get so tired of the ridiculous twisting of Scripture that he and others do. There are many things that I could address but here are two that really stick in my craw. First, the whole thing with tying Judas' betrayal of Jesus for money with non tithing..what??? Second, we don't give to make God love us because He already does, but if you don't give God will curse you. Hmmm..it sounds like we give to keep God loving us because if we don't give He curses us. Not such a loving action. As a father it would not communicate love to my children for me to say,"there is nothing you can ever do that would change my love for you, except that if you did this one thing I will have to curse you." #NUTCASE, #STOPPREACHING, #manipulation
ReplyDeleteThe ironic thing is as I was watching it this week I thought to myself, "This is something you'd see on fbc jax blog." (yes I watch it weekly, because I believe he is a sincere guy trying to reach people)
ReplyDeleteI took issue with him calling it a dime bag more than the illustration. I believe, however, that we are slightly misunderstanding his illustration. He was saying for every $1 you get you give a dime and i'll even give you the dollar and the tithe today. We can split hairs all day over the question was the $1 the increase or the $1.10, but I understand what he meant and i'm sure God knows the intent of their hearts in giving.
I do, however, take issue with his application of the scriptures. He did imply that if you don't tithe you are cursed financially, etc, etc, etc. I don't believe this is for the church, yet pastors in churches all of the world are teaching this today. Yes, I personally need to give more, but not to escape the curse of God but because I wanna support the work of God and keep the lights on at my church.
Debbie: I believe the reason these types of churches are growing is because of two reasons that come to my mind.
ReplyDeletePeople like to be told items are black and white and no gray.
These people do not wish to use the brain that God gave them.
I disagree Tom Parker on number two.
ReplyDeletePeople are so brain washed now from day one as a youth especially in churches like the SBC that they must tithe.
I wonder if that is being taught now in the seminaries. The tithe. How to increase your money, how to get it....these guys are more concerned with money than saving souls.
It is like these guys are all in MBA school instead of seminary...
It's not just about the fact that they don't want to think. It's also about the fact that, when you have 14,000 members, you know that no one is going to notice if you don't attend, don't give, don't actively participate in missions and ministry. It's much easier to be a small part of a mass movement and do nothing but wear your "I Heart My Church" tshirt all over town.
ReplyDeletePeople love to point to all the "growth" as evidence of God's work. Let's keep in mind that many movements have growing followers that have nothing to do with God. And also that Jesus went from 5000 down to 11 during the course of His ministry.
Josh B says: "We can split hairs all day over the question was the $1 the increase or the $1.10, but I understand what he meant and i'm sure God knows the intent of their hearts in giving."
ReplyDelete----------------------
No sir, we mustn't let Perry off the hook so easily. He is the one that says a person must tithe off of the "increase", and that 10% is the standard, and to not give 10% of your increase is to set yourself up to be cursed by God.
If that is true, then Perry was very careless to give church members $1.10 and tell them to give only a dime back as a tithe.
But of course - we know that this is all just hocus pocus, and there are no curses or blessings based on a 10% cut give to a 501(c)3 organization.
This just serves to prove that Perry himself doesn't believe his tithing nonsense, else he would have done the quick calculation himself.
There will always be those who come along and attempt to sell us what we can have for free.
ReplyDeleteLA
It seems you are debating whether Thor wants 10% or not. And if Thor does require 10% or he will zap us with his heavenly hammer, you must give said 10% to the leader of the Thor fan club that you happen to attend, so they can hire staff, build large campuses, and recruit more Thor fans. Just sayin...
ReplyDelete"We can split hairs all day over the question was the $1 the increase or the $1.10, but I understand what he meant and i'm sure God knows the intent of their hearts in giving."
ReplyDeleteSo it's about the intent of the heart and not the letter of the law?
I agree, but I don't think that Perry would agree with you.
You can easily prove me wrong by providing a sermon clip of him promoting your philosophy.
People are out there lost. And we continue to wander in the weeds of the tithing debate.
ReplyDeleteWe're repelling, not winning.
These hirelings are greedy deceivers who love money and want to be wealthy. The people who follow them are the same, greedy and covetuous. This is why these organizations are flourishing They are businesses hiding under a cloak of not for profit decency, and a mask of religion; to avoid paying taxes.
ReplyDelete"We're repelling, not winning."
ReplyDeleteBy teaching false doctrine?
I agree!
"We're repelling, not winning."
ReplyDeleteBy teaching false doctrine?
I agree!
Actually the tithe of the OT was about 23 1/3%, so even a $.11 "tithe" would be "robbing God". Then, since he is telling his goats, er uh congregation, to follow laws to every jot and tittle he would need to have them follow all 613 laws of the OT.
ReplyDeleteThese hucksters like Noble have buildings full of false converts who must be kept in check by constantly hounding them with "you better not" and "you need to be" because the Holy Spirit is not present to convict them. These poor deceived souls are on their way to hell because Noble and his ilk are teaching a form of godliness, but denying the true and living God.
Actually the tithe of the OT was about 23 1/3%, so even a $.11 "tithe" would be "robbing God". Then, since he is telling his goats, er uh congregation, to follow laws to every jot and tittle he would need to have them follow all 613 laws of the OT.
ReplyDeleteThese hucksters like Noble have buildings full of false converts who must be kept in check by constantly hounding them with "you better not" and "you need to be" because the Holy Spirit is not present to convict them. These poor deceived souls are on their way to hell because Noble and his ilk are teaching a form of godliness, but denying the true and living God.
Anon:11:26....you've hit the nail on the head....all we care about is whether the church's coffee shoppe now serves Sumatran or Kenyan coffee, and if I can schedule the racquetball court at 4pm in the family life building..
ReplyDeleteMy understanding is that legally, if a charitable donor "earmarks" a charitable donation, i.e., specifies what particular purpose he/she wants the donation to go to, then the donee has to honor that earmark. So, for example, if you give money to your church but on the check you write, "to be used only for the youth ministry", the church has to abide by that earmark.
ReplyDeleteThis got me to thinking. I just wonder what would happen if all the members of these megachurches started earmarking their contributions for the ministries the church maintains to keep up appearances - you know, silly stuff like taking care of the needy and foreign missions (as an aside, I used to belong to a megachurch that had a "ministry" to the needy of the community. What it amounted to, every Thanksgiving IF the needy could somehow manage to get themselves to the church, they passed out these grocery sacks - 1 per family containing a whopping 25 bucks worth of canned food items and other cheap groceries). So, I wonder what would happen if Perry Noble's and Ronnie Floyd's congregation immediately began earmarking their tithes and offerings for the church's token needy relief ministry, foreign missions, international hunger relief, etc.? Now in all fairness, a church does need funds for basic things like a building, and clergymen do have families to support. So maybe earmark 10% of that tithe to "building and salaries"?
Of course the sheep aren't going to do this because if they did, they would probably get a curse put on them the next Sunday. But I'd just love to be a fly on the wall at that rebuke sermon, to hear how Perry and Floyd and their ilk would ab(use) the Bible to explain the sheeps' disobedience in earmarking their tithes.
"But I'd just love to be a fly on the wall at that rebuke sermon"
ReplyDeleteHere it is buddy:
http://fbcjaxwatchdog.blogspot.com/2010/01/10undesignatedno-exceptions.html
Now that's just funny right there! Why didn't he give them 10 dimes? Ouch! I guess that he figures he's going to get the whole $1.10 back most of the time.
ReplyDeleteBut here's the thing. Those folks didn't earn that $1.10. Sure, if someone gave me $1,000,000 I'd give my church $100,000.00. No problem. Maybe even $200,00.00. Actually a pretty easy decision if you think about it. But the money that you earn to support your wife and children? I'm not sure that I even understand the point that he's trying to make. Good grief.