In today's Florida Times Union (1/30/10) is a story by Deirdre Conner describing how this week in downtown Jacksonville the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office has ramped up the efforts to clear people sleeping on the sidewalk near the City Rescue Mission's New Life Inn.This is all within a stone's throw of the First Baptist Church of Jacksonville.
In fact in the picture above you can see one of FBC Jax's parking garages and the crosswalk leading to another of their garages.
Says the article:
"Since Tuesday, people sleeping on the sidewalk near the mission's New Life Inn have been chased away and, in a few cases, arrested."
And this:
"Mission leaders say they were blind-sided by the actions, because the few dozen people who sleep outside the mission's New Life Inn - which has been full for months and has seen a 33% increase in demand - have been doing so for more than a year."
Is it just a coincidence that these efforts are occuring just days before the FBC Jax Pastor's Conference begins, when thousands of pastors and high-profile Christian speakers are flying into town?
The article goes on:
"Jacksonville Sheriff's Lt. Steve Gallaher said the department had received a complaint on Tuesday about the area of Julia Street near State Street getting worse, which led to enforcement actions."
I wonder who made the complaint.
More from the article:
"On Friday afternoon, two police cars pulled up on Julia Street and ordered people waiting for intake to get their feet and any property off the street and onto the sidewalk."
Friday afternoon. The day the Pastor's Conference starts just yards from the homeless shelter, two police cars pull up.
More from the article:
"Duguid [CRM COO] said that some of the 'trash' on the sidewalk was actually the personal belongings of homeless people. He said many of the people who slept near the shelter said they did so because they saw it as a 'safe zone' where they would not fear violence...Duguid said no one at the mission could remember it previously having received notices of code violations by the city for a similar infraction."
It all may be just a coincidence that this is occuring just hours before the start of the FBC Jax Pastor's Conference. Even if it is just a coincidence, what a sad state of affairs when in the shadows of the city's largest and wealthiest church holding a conference full of pastors - there is a homeless shelter yards away that is at such over capacity that the men and women needing help are being arrested and moved off the sidewalks. A conference where money is flowing, promotions sold by the church to vendors for thousands of dollars, and speakers who will get paid thousands for their speeches - even wealthy church marketing consultants in town Twittering about their lavish meals and desserts at fancy restaurants - yet for over a year the homeless shelter next door can't house and feed all the needy people. The pastors at the conference are busy Twittering about all they are learning from these very wealthy speakers; I wonder if any will be emphasizing the need to care more for the poor.
How ironic also, that the first night of the conference, FBC Jax pastor Mac Brunson announces to the attendees that they should take pictures of the auditorium, because just after the conference concludes they will be starting a renovation of the auditorium. Millions available for renovations of an auditorium that is at a fraction of its capacity, but hardly any money for the poor.
This should cause ALL of us Christians to hang our head is disgust that we and our churches are not doing more to help the poor.
Most of these pastors who come in town are likely telling their congregations that the bible says to fork over 10% minimum of their income to the church...which the Bible does not say...yet these same pastors and their churches ignore the clear direct command of Jesus Christ to care for the widows and orphans and the downtrodden.
God help us all.
Jesus wept.
ReplyDeleteHere's an idea... FBC Jax logo'd Snuggies to distribute to the homeless. Look how much we care!
ReplyDeleteHow ironic...just moments after this article posts, comes a Tweet from the FBCJaxPC Twitter account:
ReplyDelete"John Bisagno cliff note: If an American teen was starving to death & had $15, they'd spend it on Itunes 1st b/f buying food."
WD - I know you are not accusing the church of anything, but I can't help but wonder what Mayor John Peyton would think if in fact it was the First Baptist Church, who keeps millions and millions of tax dollars from the city budget via their religious tax exemption, who complained and called the JSO to send two police cars to clear the sidewalk just hours before the pastor's conference. And what Peyton would think about the church spending millions of dollars to renovate the inside of the auditorium, while outside the walls, the homeless are ignored. Let me correct that, they are not just ignored, which is bad enough, but they are "aggressively confronted" by the JSO. Hours before the PC starts up. Days before renovations begin. Months before the Danube River cruise. And it has been really cold lately. Why no snuggies for the homeless from Maurilio? He just doesn't get it. Much better PR would result from him giving snuggies to these cold homeless people than to millionaires like Mac who lays comfortably inside a climate controlled home and office where plantation shutters can help keep out the sun or cold.
ReplyDeleteYes, the church and its members can neglect the poor and take luxury vacations and pay their pastors all they want. But must we taxpayers subsidize it and then have them call the JSO to clean up the sidewalks before their conventions?
I just hope it is not true. I hope the church had nothing to do with what was done and the timing of it. But you can't help but wonder.
How self centered have we Christians become anyway?
"John Bisagno cliff note: If an American teen was starving to death & had $15, they'd spend it on Itunes 1st b/f buying food."
ReplyDeleteJanuary 30, 2010 12:19 PM
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If a millionaire pastor had an $18 million budget, what would he spend it on? We already know the answer to that. A picture is worth a thousand words. Maurilio in his snuggie is picture 1, the homeless being confronted in front of the church is picture 2.
Where is Jesus? Where is God? Where are the churchmen? Where are the families at FBC Jax who will say ENOUGH! Give to the homeless mission and not to FBC Jax and you can bet they will find a place for those people somewhere other than the sidewalk. But then who would pay for those renovations? God's priority must be to renovate the auditorium since God's man is leading us to do so right?
"John Bisagno cliff note: If an American teen was starving to death & had $15, they'd spend it on Itunes 1st b/f buying food."
ReplyDeleteJanuary 30, 2010 12:19 PM
What is the difference between the teen buying itunes and a Christian adult paying to renovate an auditorium?
The professing Christian is in sin because they should know better about such decisions concerning image if they have the indwelling Holy Spirit.
Matt
Actually, the teenager with $15 is much more likely to care about the homeless, and actually help them, then those pastors walking right by the homeless into the auditorium so they can twitter quotes from the millionaire speaker.
ReplyDeleteTo those pastors reading this who have lined up (or plan to) to get an autograph from another man, I would just say "Really?"
ReplyDeleteYou ought to be ashamed of yourself. Please don't call yourself a pastor. Think about it.
"John Bisagno cliff note: If an American teen was starving to death & had $15, they'd spend it on Itunes 1st b/f buying food".
ReplyDeleteJohn Bisgano is a Moron.
If a person is starving to death, he or she would buy cheap food to sustain themselves.
Only the rich would spend their last $15- while starving to spend it on iTunes.
If he was not a techorati Moron, he might download Bit Torrent, and get ALL the music and videos for free. Yes it would be akin to stealing. But it is more righteous than what these pastors are doing at Fbc Jax Pastor Conference and what is being done to the poor to be removed from the sidewalks close to Fbc Jax. Shame on you Fbc Jax.
Be assured of one thing....Jesus sees it all and there will be an accounting one day.
ReplyDeleteCoincidence? No way!
ReplyDeleteEver heard of OPEN RECORDS.If a complaint was filed to the Sheriff's office or any governmental agency, find out WHO was the complainant.
It is a requirement and LAW that once a request has been made, It must be disclosed.
Now get busy and file for open records to this "action" - this could be very interesting on WHO was behind this RICHMAN POORMAN scenario!
Dr Who
Perhaps Mike Hogan, Jim Fuller, Jerry Holland, Don Redmond, just to name a few, all had a say in having this done - after all, they are community leaders and prominent members of FBCJ.
ReplyDeleteI'm sure they were instrumental in having a voice in the timing of this move to rid the undesirables.
Mac Brunson has had a huge "Mission Field" in his own back yard here in Jacksonville but has ignored the indigent.
Instead of focusing on the need for downtown this preacher instead felt the calling to set up a campus in PVB/Nocatee's richest communities where there are already rich Bible churches up and running. Stunning!
Mac Brunson announced that he is going to do his best to try and make a trip to Haiti.
ReplyDeleteWe have hundreds of people who are homeless and hungry sleeping right outside his "luxery" office. We have missionaries in Haiti that are already there doing the work.
Right, God help us!
This is nothing new for the new village of Nottingham. Prince John bows to the demands of the Bishop, and the good Sheriff's men follow the bidding of their master.
ReplyDeleteAgain ... totally irresponsible post. Sometimes you really just go a bit too far.
ReplyDeleteI haven't been able to bring myself to watch any of the Pastors' Conference. Just reading the "tweets" coming from inside was enough for me. They've all got "man crushes"!
ReplyDeleteSomewhat off topic:
ReplyDeleteDr. Emir Caner (brother of Dr. Ergun Caner) preached a powerful, compelling sermon Sat. night for the FBC Jax Youth Pastors Conference!!
He urged transparency and sacrifice as duties of the ministry. He said one sign of a cult is that things are done in secret.
I wish Dr. Caner could preach to all of the Pastors, in one of the general sessions. This was definitely the best sermon I've heard at FBC Jax in a very long time !
Dr. Dog- perhaps you could get a copy of the sermon. It was a breath of fresh air, and so compelling! Great to know that there is still a remnant left!!
Anon 2:19
ReplyDeleteBe careful what you expose on here, they (those within the Baptist Mafia) will blacklist this pastor for preaching such a real and truthful message.
How dare anyone question the real meaning of being a Baptist pastor -
Remember what they did to the pastor from Oklahoma for speaking the truths concerning the S B C?
I have never watched a conference on line. I am not going to start now. But I do appreciate those of you who are following it. Keep posting about who is speaking and on what topics.
ReplyDeleteI think that the stalker complained about the trash on the streets.
"John Bisagno is a moron."
Did I read that correctly?
Wow.
Louis
Anon 2:19
ReplyDeleteDr Caner, when speaking of a cult, says that one of its characteristics is that they do things in SECRETE. Since Mac Brunson came to FBCJ HE has done nothing but keep things in SECRETE. Does that make him a cult leader? Is he not following the Purpose Driven format? Did he not say that he would not? Did FBCJ become Purpose Driven? Yep!
FBCJ, DO YOU KNOW WHERE YOUR MONEY IS GOING? S E C R E T E
Mat 21:12 And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,
ReplyDeleteMat 21:13 And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.
Secret does not have an E on the end otherwise great points made.
ReplyDeleteDr. Who: 10:07: What happened to the Oklahoma preacher?
Regarding what preachers preach....watch what they do not what they say!!!!
I don't think Mac needs to go to Haiti, obviously there are homeless,right outside his office. Great mission field. Arn't they IMB mission oriented? You don't have to "take a trip", to minister in Jax to the homeless.
Your life is the only Bible some people read. What would jesus do? I'm sure not what FBC Jax Has. Ignore them and they might go away.
ReplyDeleteAgain ... totally irresponsible post. Sometimes you really just go a bit too far.
ReplyDeleteJanuary 30, 2010 9:50 PM
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So you would say the thinking is that the Florida Times Union likewise writes articles that are a bit far out as well. Mmmmmm!
Interesting of the various backgrounds that the photographer had to choose to post on the front page of the newspaper, that they chose the one with the FBCJ parking garage. They could have easily used a picture of the library, the courthouse, the park and a whole lot of other building's where these people congregate on a regular basis.
Sorry, I don't call this post irresponsbile - someone made a call as this just wasn't a hapinstance timing event. No Way!
Thus far, the one post that has "Entertained" me the most was seeing the Senior Pastor snuggled up supposably sleeping on his couch. This is what I call someone taking a picture like that and then posting it for the world to see is what I call irresponsible.
Church: "If we had more money we could really do some helpful ministry."
ReplyDeleteMe: "If I just had more money, I could really give a lot more to the church."
They tell me to sacrifice and trust God and give anyway, or cut my expenses so I can afford to give more. I say for them to do the same. Cut some of that staff and those friends and family and the overhead. Or, minister with the budget you have and trust God to provide.
I don't ask the church for more $, why do they keep asking me for more?
I am feeding two families currently, that have no jobs and are not eligible for public assistance. Getting help is not as easy as some think. So I won't be giving to redecorating the church or even to Haiti. We have homeless and hungery all around us that need help. I hope some think of this when they are dining out and sleeping warm. One does not need to go to a "mission field" or to Haiti, one only need go outside the church. I wonder if God might not bless helping those less fortunate more than he would new carpet. Please pray for those that need our help.
ReplyDeleteBand of brothers:
ReplyDeleteThat series is coming on again. Every time that I watch I can't help but think of the heroes that fought in that war.
Well men we are in a war with the Devil. He is busy on all fronts. We may be against the weaknesses that confront us here. But, let's not forget we are brothers and sisters. Always desiring to help, even though there are heretics and apostates amongst us and forever seeking the guidance and direction of the Holy Ghost.
Be strong in the Lord.
I have been wondering if the complaint was from FBC since i read the story. I PRAY NOT.
ReplyDeleteHas anyone been successful in finding out where the complaint came from? Please don't make me have to go out there and figure it out.
ReplyDeleteI have actually been crying ever since I read this. Watchdog, if the church isn't responsible for the complaint, this is utterly irresponsible of you.
If the church IS responsible...I have no words.
Somebody needs to find out the truth about this story.
Anon 3:55 2-1
ReplyDelete/I will repeat what I said earlier:
Dr Who said...
Coincidence? No way!
Ever heard of OPEN RECORDS.If a complaint was filed to the Sheriff's office or any governmental agency, find out WHO was the complainant.
It is a requirement and LAW that once a request has been made, It must be disclosed.
Now get busy and file for open records to this "action" - this could be very interesting on WHO was behind this RICHMAN POORMAN scenario!
Dr Who
I haven't checked this probably in a year, but I heard you had an entry on tithing, and was just curious.
ReplyDeleteI'm still amazed, and quite frankly sickened that there are this many gossips and mumblers and speakers of ill-will against God's bride.
It is deeply upsettting and hurtful.
Yes, the day of discipline will come against any not caring for the poor. But Christ said the poor we will always have with us.
But the day of discipline will also come against those berate the church of Christ.
I'm sorry to say I once knew a man in a church who lead a movement to split people, and almost from the very day he finally "got his way," he began to get ill, and is now living with this illness. I don't know if that's the judgement of God or not. I don't presume to know his methods, but it's hard to think that perhaps this fatal illness is linked to his blatant disobedience.
There are youths and young adults I do know who read this blog, who have been turned away from the church. The taste of fighting will stay with them forever. I can name several individuals who now claim to be agnostic, citing that there can't possibly be a loving God with this strife going on among those that call themselves Christians. They are young, and impressionable, and turning away, because a forum as this exists.
It is better to have millstone tied around your neck than to turn a little one away.
I no longer see the point in this type of forum. If you do have a moral objection to a church, it might be uncomfortable, it might be inconvenient, but please, please leave. It would be wrong of you to stay for yourselves and participate in something you believe is doing wrong. At this point, I do not believe your motives are simply to warn others of wrongdoing. I believe it has become spiteful and vindictive. Even when I agree with the topic, it comes across as so demeaning and desperate.
Please, please stop. For the world watching, for the health of your spirit and body, and for Christ's church. If He wishes, he can bring far worse vengence than you can with your little words. Allow him to work instead.
Proverbs 14:20,21 I ask again...does anybody know the truth about this story? I don't know how to do that thing that guy said to do.
ReplyDeleteWhat this Pastor is saying in the below past post is... and I interpret...
ReplyDeletePlease leave us alone so we can do as we please without anyone finding out and if you don't your gonna get a curse like the gentleman I spoke about. We hate it that we have been caught in some many scandals and so many issues brought to light because of the Internet....
Clean up your house Pastor, then get back to us...
as my friend wrote once....
The Internet, the Great Equalizer..
Now What the anonymous Pastor wrote:
___________________________________
Anonymous said...
I haven't checked this probably in a year, but I heard you had an entry on tithing, and was just curious.
I'm still amazed, and quite frankly sickened that there are this many gossips and mumblers and speakers of ill-will against God's bride.
It is deeply upsettting and hurtful.
Yes, the day of discipline will come against any not caring for the poor. But Christ said the poor we will always have with us.
But the day of discipline will also come against those berate the church of Christ.
I'm sorry to say I once knew a man in a church who lead a movement to split people, and almost from the very day he finally "got his way," he began to get ill, and is now living with this illness. I don't know if that's the judgement of God or not. I don't presume to know his methods, but it's hard to think that perhaps this fatal illness is linked to his blatant disobedience.
There are youths and young adults I do know who read this blog, who have been turned away from the church. The taste of fighting will stay with them forever. I can name several individuals who now claim to be agnostic, citing that there can't possibly be a loving God with this strife going on among those that call themselves Christians. They are young, and impressionable, and turning away, because a forum as this exists.
It is better to have millstone tied around your neck than to turn a little one away.
I no longer see the point in this type of forum. If you do have a moral objection to a church, it might be uncomfortable, it might be inconvenient, but please, please leave. It would be wrong of you to stay for yourselves and participate in something you believe is doing wrong. At this point, I do not believe your motives are simply to warn others of wrongdoing. I believe it has become spiteful and vindictive. Even when I agree with the topic, it comes across as so demeaning and desperate.
Please, please stop. For the world watching, for the health of your spirit and body, and for Christ's church. If He wishes, he can bring far worse vengence than you can with your little words. Allow him to work instead.
February 2, 2010 6:15 AM
Watchdog, you ought to check your facts. Ok, so does anybody KNOW who complained?
ReplyDeleteAnd one more thing, when you put a story like this up...do you make ANY attempt to check if it's factual? I admit, the first thing I thought when I read that story in the paper was that FBC Jax had something to do with removing these people to "cleanup" the area for their Pastors Conference. Ok, it made me nauseous. But me thinking that and it being factual are two different things. BUT YOU...you go write it up like its a fact. So, what I'm sayin is this...if you don't KNOW that it's a fact that the homeless were chased away by FBC Jax BECAUSE of the FBC Jax Pastors Conference...would you print this little blurb? Cause you printed this up like you KNOW the truth...but until somebody has a NAME associated with the complaint, don't you think it would have been kinder and more Christian to shut the whatever up? How many homeless people you think need to hear that they aren't wanted even in the AREA of a church, much less IN the church? That the local church next door thinks they are not worthy to even sleep outside a homeless shelter? That would just make my day if I were homeless. This ain't very nice. I think its cruel. Barf. You all make me sick.
ReplyDeleteThis ain't very nice. I think its cruel. Barf. You all make me sick.
ReplyDeleteFebruary 2, 2010 2:32 PM
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No one has said the church called in the complaints on Tuesday and again on Friday just hours before the conference was to begin. The "facts" are in the article. Never had the city given the homeless shelter an official citation. And the JSO had not interfered for the past year when the occupancy was 1/3 over capacity. It just so happened on the day of the PC and you can clearly see the JSO cruiser in the background with the church parking lots and crosswalk behind that. The picture is real. Those are the facts. And...that very night, the pastor told his guests that renovations inside the auditorium were about to begin after the conference. Those are the facts. Whoever called in the complaint doesn't really matter. The reality is the church is more concerned with renovations then the homeless right outside their door. I agree. It is sick and makes me want to barf. And I don't care who called in the complaints. But if it was the church, then I will be even sicker. Won't YOU?
There are youths and young adults I do know who read this blog, who have been turned away from the church. The taste of fighting will stay with them forever. I can name several individuals who now claim to be agnostic, citing that there can't possibly be a loving God with this strife going on among those that call themselves Christians. They are young, and impressionable, and turning away, because a forum as this exists.
ReplyDelete___________________________________
Do you think it is this blog that turns them away, or maybe it is the acts of the leadership that turn them away. Or put another way...did the child molesting of Bob Gray turn people away, or was it the news stories on TV and in the paper that hurt "the bride of Christ?" Did the reports (blogs and others) on Darrel Gilyard's sexual exploits with female members turn people away, or was it the actions of Gilyard?
Your anger seems to be misdirected towards the messengers and not toward the perpetrators. A church with millions of dollars of "God's money" that spends it as FBC Jax and Bellevue do SHOULD turn many away from this false "church."
Are you claiming that by "attacking" Gilyard, Gray, Brunson and Gaines we are attacking "the bride of Christ?'
I hope you are not that gullible. Wake up, please, so those "little ones" can find the true gospel of Jesus. Thank you.
But the day of discipline will also come against those berate the church of Christ.
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry to say I once knew a man in a church who lead a movement to split people, and almost from the very day he finally "got his way," he began to get ill, and is now living with this illness. I don't know if that's the judgement of God or not. I don't presume to know his methods, but it's hard to think that perhaps this fatal illness is linked to his blatant disobedience.
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So are you saying that Adrian Rogers' cancer, Homer Lindsay III sudden death of a heart attack, Homer Jr's cancer and sudden death, Shirley Lindsay falling at home and dying suddenly, are all the judgment of God? Or is it just people that disagree with you? That is very scary thinking. Did you get that from Jesus or from a preacher?
A few months ago I read Joel Gregory's book, Too Great a Temptation. Gregory was the guy FBC Dallas called to be their pastor in 1991, but W.A. Criswell refused to step down. Gregory stuck it out 21 months before resigning. What's interesting about this book is what you read between the lines about the SBC and megachurches in general.
ReplyDeleteThis was Gregory's account of their infamous little airport meeting/marathon (which included Jerry Vines, Adrian Rogers, and a handful of other mega pastors) to try to keep the board of trustees of Criswell College from firing then-college-president, Paige Patterson.
After opening the meeting I [Gregory] let the visiting dignitaries have their say. And have it they did. These pastors were not in the habit of interference from laymen in their churches. They ruled like kings. They proceeded to lecture the trustees at length concerning the person and value of Paige Patterson. Jerry Vines and Charles Stanley were clearly hot. Stanley recounted his own battles at First Baptist, Atlanta. On his accession to the pastorate, an oligarchy of laypersons opposed him. He then spelled out to Bo Sexton [trustee chairman] and the trustees the horrible things that had happened to the families of those who opposed him: disease, death, divorce, etc. The implication was clear: if you touch Paige Patterson, God will get you. I was sitting next to Bo and thought he would explode.
It made me sick to my stomach to read this. Whether it's the "judgment of God" or the result of living in a fallen world, it rains on the just and the unjust, and assigning "reasons" for it, other than the obvious (exposure to radiation or toxic chemicals causing some cancers, heredity and lifestyle leading to some heart problems, crossing the street without looking both ways, etc.) is a waste of time and at the very least, cruel.
NEW BBC OPEN FORUM: Thanks for bring this to the blog., of Feb.3 1:27AM: It makes my own experience of being "dealt with" by a Preacher/Pharisee (my opinion) more understandable to me. It looks as if when one disagrees with a Preacher/Pharisee you are doomed and can "freeze to death" within the walls of your own church. The Preacher/Pharisee rules and the "lemming leadership" (also my opinion) does his bidding and follows Preacher/Pharisee off the cliff. One fact is, they will be JUDGED by the Perfect Judge, and I will get to watch it. There will be an accounting at the Judgement Seat and then many of us will be justified for our suffering at the hands of Preacher/Pharisees. Until then I stay out of church and away from hurtful people. I love the Lord and His Word. Like some others have stated, I got much closer to Jesus when I GOT OUT!!! And additionally, speaking of the tithe, and/or giving money to churchs, lets, put it this way; They couldn't PAY ME enough to come back!!!
ReplyDeleteI have made three attempts from three different places to find the source of the complaint about the homeless. I have one stating that the church made no attempt to remove the homeless, and two no responses.
ReplyDeleteSo if the church wasn't responsible, don't you still want to know who was? I do. To me the total implication of this thread by watchdog was that "probably" the church was responsible. And "probably" the people in the church only care about church renovations and not about the homeless right outside their door.
Is that true? Some of you who read this go to FBC Jax, "probably". You probably know if the church makes any efforts to help the homeless. I was always under the impression that they did make efforts.
It always is a good thing to try to find out facts about things that are important to you and this subject was very important to me. I couldn't believe, couldn't BELIEVE, that a church would try to remove homeless people sleeping outside a shelter, so I tried to find out the truth. Because the whole subject is UNBELIEVABLE...when shelters are full where are homeless people supposed to go? To JAIL? Is this a POLICE STATE NOW?
Again, this subject is very important to me. It was, from the minute I read about it in the paper. YES it matters if FBC Jax is in any way responsible and they ignore the homeless outside their door. BUT DO THEY, OR IS THIS A COMPLETELY CONCOCTED FIGMENT OF WATCHDOGS IMAGINATION????? And do you people who read this care about the truth, or just slapping down FBC Jax again?
Its a nauseating world we live in, cause while we debate this, those people are sitting outside with no where to go. You ever been a person with no where to go?
You guys are pathetic and blind. You worship yourselves. You want a perfect church? None on earth. What are "you" doing besides griping and complaining? You worship your hatred. Repent.
ReplyDelete"I have made three attempts from three different places to find the source of the complaint about the homeless. I have one stating that the church made no attempt to remove the homeless, and two no responses."
ReplyDeleteWho stated it wasn't the church, and who isn't responding? I'd like to hear the answer to this, too. I would think there should be a written report somewhere. Can anyone there locate it?
To me the total implication of this thread by watchdog was that "probably" the church was responsible.
ReplyDelete___________________________________
No one has said it was probably the church. All that was said was that two police cruisers showed up just hours before the PC was to begin. And the director of the homeless shelter was quoted in the article saying they had never been given a city code violation before and that no police involvment had occured in the prior 12 months despite overflow need. All are free to decide what "probably" happened. No one knows for sure. But it sure was an opportunistic, fortuitous result for the church either way. They had the sidewalk across the street cleaned up just hours before all their dignitaries would be coming in to hear about the planned renovations. :)
You guys are pathetic and blind. You worship yourselves. You want a perfect church? None on earth. What are "you" doing besides griping and complaining? You worship your hatred. Repent.
ReplyDelete__________________________________
Wow, that is not a very nice thing to say. Are you a follower of Christ? You seem very mad at us. Imagine if we were the ones doing what church leadership is doing. Maybe you can see why we are so concerned.:) We are not griping and complaining. We are just discussing some of the abuses we see, some of the needs we see going neglected despite millions in donations, and some of the renovations and Danube River cruises we see by our leadership who use the tithes and offerings to fund it all. If this is indeed "God's money" they are wasting, don't you think we should be upset and concerned. Even more so than you are about some bloggers? I would think you should be more concerned about the homeless and the actions of your leadership in church than you are about whether some folks are blogging or not.
I pray that God will open your mind and heart.
I would think there should be a written report somewhere. Can anyone there locate it?
ReplyDeleteFebruary 3, 2010 1:30 PM
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Unless a written report was made, there will be no way of finding out out who called in the complaints and why 2 cruisers were dispatched Friday just hours before the PC started. The incident reports for January are not in the computer yet, according to the JSO. Once they are, we will know if a report was made and will get it to the WD so he can post it.
But either the JSO acted on their own, or the mayor asked for them to crack down (both unlikely), or someone else chose the Friday before the PC to call in complaints when none had been made in over a year. We may never know the truth, but like was said here earlier, who cares who called to complain? The point is the homeless are harassed by the JSO outside the church's walls while SBC dignitaries twitter inside and plan renovations. Barf!
Barf indeed, but they arn't much better to members they don't like. Either way if they did this, it stinks.
ReplyDeleteWhy did I feel closer to God when I was out of church also? Its kinda scary. As for right now, I'm ready for a lengthy break from "church". I don't know if my relationship to God will survive much more "church", or "church people".
ReplyDelete(I really don't get it, it scares me.) I just know I don't want to be in church, for fear of being permanantly turned away from my faith.
A young skull full of mush (as Rush would say) posted this "tweet" to FBC Jax PC's Twitter during the PC:
ReplyDeletei told this homeless man JESUS LOVES HIM!! Man did he have one of the biggest smile on his face!! :)
Wow, I bet that made his day.
Two things.
ReplyDelete1) I almost ran over one homeless guy's feet when he was slipping on the road. It's painful to see them there, but:
2) all who left negative comments about FBC here, tell me how much $ have you spent on homeless in Downtown and how have you helped them?
If your answer is none or close to it, all your comments are pathetic self-justifications.