Read Smyrl's November 14th article on our church blogsite. Catholic priests are "cult leaders" according to Jim Smyrl. And those voting for Barack Obama need to repent in order to be worthy to partake of the Lord's supper. That's the world according to Jim Smryl.What happened to the Jim Smyrl we knew?
When he began preaching here in the 90's, he was a young preacher with so much promise. He seemed to pattern his expository style after Jerry Vines.
He left our church, got his PhD, pastored for a few years, then came here to earn the big bucks as Mac's education man. Unfortunately now that he is under the tutelage of Mac Brunson, he is not the same preacher. He has taken a decidedly darker, legalistic tone in his ministry. What a shame.
And now he has gone overboard in his latest blog entry on our church's official blog site.
In Smyrl's November 14th blog entitled "Voting Yourself Out of Fellowship", Smyrl calls Catholic priests "cult leaders", and then has the audacity to voice agreement with the a South Carolina Catholic priest's decision to recommend that congregants who voted for Obama refrain from taking communion to keep their souls from being dammed. He also equates voting for Obama as "sin" of which the Christian needs to repent. Need to read his blog entry carefully, because as I have pointed out before he writes in "spiritualistic" code, where the meaning of his words is not always clear on the first reading.
How on earth does Smyrl defend using our church website to call our Catholic friends "cultish", and Catholic priests "cult leaders"? How does that help us minister to the city of Jacksonville? How does that further our church goal of reaching this city for Jesus Christ? No doubt that Baptists and Catholics have many doctrinal disagreements - but in the classical definition we don't universally consider them to be a "cult" as there are some points of doctrinal agreement, such as the critical view of the Trinity. And no doubt we have points of moral agreement such as the topic of abortion and the sanctity of life.
But I guess if our own pastor sees no problem in berating his own congregation week after week, and declaring that we are a hotbed of legalism where we have no real relationship with Jesus Christ...if our own pastor has such a low spiritual view of his own congregants....then certainly Brunson sees no problem in his #2 man in offending all of our Catholic friends in Jacksonville on our church's blog site. And just for the record: Brunson himself invited a singer in 2007 to perform at our church who is an ordained minister of the Seventh Day Adventist (SDA) church - which is in many circles considered to meet the definition of a "cult". Several of our church members were very hurt that our pastor invited an SDA minister, as they have family members who have been greatly harmed by the SDA.
Look at this sentence in his closing paragraph:
"...Who alone can cleanse us of all sin. Whether it is the sin of voting in a manner that misrepresents God’s character or the sin of maliciously dividing fellowship with other believers, Christ is the answer for reconciliation. "
So those of you who voted for Obama, don't let Smyrl find out. He will perhaps bring you to the discipline committee and ask you to repent else you'll be considered by Smyrl and Mac to be unworthy of fellowship . And of course if you're like me and "maliciously dividing fellowship with other believers", you too will eventually be expelled from the fellowship.
Read again the title of his blog: "Voting Yourself Out of Fellowship"...this to me is scary stuff. Jim Smyrl and his Theology Driven Ministry concept should be expelled from our church. If you ever doubted what TDM is about, its about teaching a legalistic view of scripture, throwing the Holy Spirit out and replacing Him with Mac's unannointed preaching, and a set of questions to be asked in small groups. And if you don't join in and believe exactly as Smyrl and Brunson, and if you don't bow to their demands in the practice of your faith, if you dare to ask questions or express worry, you're unworthy of fellowship.
Jim and Mac. What a pair we have. When will the men of our church rise up and say NO MORE!
P.S. Please, do not try to compare Smyrl's words here to Vines' words about Muhammad in 2001. Completely different, no comparison. Smyrl's words are not TRUE. Catholic priests are not "cult leaders".
47 comments:
Smyrl deserves a "pinhead" award.
My gosh, do you have to scare me with that close up of his mug?
Wow! Smyrl's picture hurts my eyes. Too much glare.
I too was disturbed when I read and re-read, re-re-read his blog posts.
It looks like, they are into dividing.
I know lot of times, Pastor Mac preached about separation.
But this does not feel right. I am not a theologian, but to diss the catholics is not smart. Well, unless Smyrl is looking for a fight from the catholics.
We will have to wait for the follow-up post he promised about catholics being a cult.
I have seen some articles online about this subject. But they are splitting hairs theologically.
Watchdog,
I read Jim Smyrl's blog a few days ago when it came out and remember thinking, 'why does he have to call Catholics cultish'?
I have several Catholic friends at work and I thought to myself as I read Jim's blog, if they saw that blog they would be furious and all the witnessing and relationship building I have been doing would be compromised because of mindless comments like Smyrl makes...
Thanks Watchdog for helping folks like me clarify my thoughts...I believe that what you are doing is a good service to our church.
I couldn't agree with you more about Smyrl's change in preaching between Vines and Brunson.
Yes, sorry for the whitewash...I didn't mean to blind you.
Its the only picture of Smyrl anywhere on the Internet I could find.
So my apologies Jim. I would have used a better picture, but I couldn't even find one on your 501(c)3 website.
I found some picture of Smyrl here, but they are too small.
Loyal Heart Ministries: Our Mission
Both the pope and Allah are cult leaders. Therefore, Smyrl's remarks are no different than Vines. You can present that argument Watchdog and it is a legitimate one.
Can you explain how they are not?
Sorry, good try. We're not talking about the pope. We're not talking about Islam. Vines' comments were concerning a completely different religion.
We're talking about Christianity.
So focus now. Can you tell me how a priest is a "cult leader"?
And when you get done, I'll explain how Smyrl and Brunson are more "cult leaders" than a Catholic priest.
Thanks.
While the Baptist ministers are becoming more educated in the seminaries....they are actually going backwards....to the 50's or 60's. I was taught back then at home and in SS that Catholics couldn't be Christians, Blacks weren't equal to whites just like women weren't.
How unlike a Christian, unbiblical, and unintelligent for this man....and many Baptist leaders to think and express these ignorant views.
Yet with the lack of good Bible study and teaching and all the authority these big guys demand.....the baptist are becoming more like the Catholics (of old)than the Catholics today!!!!
I've learned enough from watching these mega churches become shells that when a minister begins to put themselves above others like that....they are as far away from the example Jesus taught us as any cult is.
I suggest google the words catholic cult or catholicism cult.
http://www.johnankerberg.com has some references as well.
Yall need to brush up. They are a cult.
Brother Steve Wilcox says the following about the Watchdog website:
"I stopped reading it for a few weeks, then checked it out a couple of times in the last couple of weeks.
Now they are posting other peoples names of the staff and laypeople with the hopes of embarrassing them to do their dirty work.
It has progress as I suspected it would and they have accomplished nothing but drag a fine church through the internet mud.
I will NEVER respect anything they write due to the way they are handling their disagreements and criticisms."
Thanks Steve!
QUESTIONS:
What is the Catholic doctrine on how to get saved?
Can babies be saved?
How do Catholics get to heaven.
What is Catholic Indulgence?
What is Herecy?
What is a Cult?
How many Christians have Catholics killed?
You can join hands with the Catholic churchmember, but not the Catholic religeon.
And please don't overlook the other part of the post...
Smyrl believes that a person voting for Obama needs to repent.
I voted for McCain. I would vote for him a million times before Obama. And, one of the primary voting criteria for me is the sanctity of life issue, as well as the sanctity of marriage and the family. But far be it from me to tell an Obama voter that he needs to "repent". Because I don't have all the answers, I don't know everything, I don't know God's purposes, and I have to trust that the Holy Spirit moves in the heart of a believer, and if, IF voting for Obama is a sin as Smyrl says it is, well, I'll just have to trust the Holy Spirit to bring that conviction on the person.
On the Catholic is a cult issue:
Just want everyone to be very clear of the stand of the #2 man at FBC Jacksonville:
1. All of you Catholic priests are "cult leaders" - you know, like "Jim Jones", the most famous of "cult leaders" (yesterday was the 30 year anniversary of the "Kool Aid" drinking). And therefore, if we assume this to be true, all of you stupid people going to a Catholic church are following a "cult leader". Yep, like Jim Jones was a "cult leader", you too are following a "cult leader". If that's true, It is Written, does it further the gospel for Smyrl to declare it on our church website?
2. And any of you Christians that voted for Obama, need to repent of the sin of voting for a candidate that is pro abortion...and you need to repent to be in fellowship with the church.
That is scary stuff...and my point is: SMYRL'S VIEWS THEMSELVES ARE WHAT CULTS ARE BORN FROM!! A guy that will tell you HOW to vote (not letting the Holy Spirit), and that if you don't vote how HE believes you should vote, you ought to be ostracized for that. And it teaches in general "intolerance" of other people within the Christian faith - again, characterizations of a cult - WE GOT THE ANSWERS...you so called "Christians" over there have none of the answers as you follow a cult leader.
And if the Catholics be a cult - yes MacArthur says they are...and there is much doctrine that I disagree with...but I wouldn't go to a Catholic friend and tell them that their priest is a "cult leader". Especially if I just had in an ordained SDA minister to sing at my church and tell everyone what a wonderful man he is and how God is using him mightily.
And lastly, the question that I asked:
What does it help us to call all Catholic priests "cult leaders". Whether it be true or not, does it help for the #2 man at FBC Jax...where we want to reach the city for Christ...yes, even lost Catholics who need Jesus...does it help for Jimbo The Pearl Smyrl to call their priests "cult leaders" on our official church blog site?
Matt:23:vs.9: "Call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven".
I have serious problems with the Catholic Church. My objections come from the Bible position as I read it. I don't intend to get into a debate here about it. But, I do see a "cult" position in the church. Having said that, I would like to also say, I know several Catholics that are personal friends. One in particular is a very Godly person. Not a ritual fanatic, but is a genuinely humble, kind, deep Christian. I would rather have this person pray for me than anyone at FBC today. This person has been kinder to me than anyone at FBC. Sorry to say this but it's true. I have other friends that are deeply Christian whose prayers I covet, but they are not at FBC. This church has left it's first love. It has traveled far from what it was. I believe the leader have led it astray.
Paul said that he would be kind to all men so that he might have the opportunity to win them to Christ. Has any of you led a Catholic to the Lord. I have. I had a lot of good Catholic friends when I was in college and even the Army. AS A MATTER OF FACT I HAVE SOME CATHOLIC FRIENDS RIGHT NOW THAT HAVE BEEN A LOT BETTER TO MY FAMILY THAN MOST BAPTIST. BAPTIST CAN BE QUITE LEGALISTIC AND TURN ON YOU IN A HEART BEAT.I HAVE EXPERIENCED THIS.
I suggest you quit trying to tear people down and try to build them up. This old world is soon going to be destroyed and we had better be trying to save lives rather than destroying them.
Judge not lest you be judge comes to mind. There are a lot of born again Catholics, just like there a lot of born again Baptist. Some in either group are just still on MILK. The Catholics have not been as long as the Baptist in reading their bibles as they were only read by the priests. Things have changed and more of them read their bibles today. The next great awakening is just around the corner.
Be ye kind to one another. Baptist seem to ignore this verse quite often. Even angry self absorbed pastors. Who have done much damage among the brethern.
Very similar to the comments made about Mitt Romney here at FBC Dallas. Dr. Jeffress told us he could not vote for Romney for the same reason he was a member of a cult. It is my humble opinion that Romney would have had a much better chance of winning than Mc Cain. I never heard how Jeffress squared away Sen. Mc Cains affair with now wife Cindy who owns a huge Budweiser distributorship.
In the financial shape we find our country in I think Mr Romeny has the business savvy to lead us out of this bad situation. Does not matter now though does it?
Dr.Dog....I have to respectfully disagree with you and agree with Smyrl about the Catholic Church...There are good people involved in Catholicism...Unfortunately their Church itself has most of the characteristics of a cult...The Pope himself last year said basically that everyone who was not a Catholic were devoid of all the necessary truths for salvation...Dr.John MacAuthur stated in one of his sermons that the Catholic Church was not another denomination,BUT ANOTHER RELIGION!!!Dave Hunt incessantly warns of the dangers of Catholic teachings(www.thebereancall.org)..Josh McDowell in his initial publication of his book on cults(which was carried by FBC'S book store)had a chapter on the Catholic Church...Unfortunately due to criticism he removed it(like the leaders of FBCJ are trying to silence you)...Dr.D.J.Kennedy,MacAuthur,R.C.Sproul and John Ankerberg released a tape(in which I have a copy)were they discussed the danger of protestants and Catholics forming coalitions due to the serious and major disagreements over HOW ONE IS SAVED(IS IT BY FAITH ALONE OR FAITH PLUS WORKS)among other major differences(Even in their own Catechism they condemn anyone who beieves that they are saved by FAITH ALONE THRU CHRIST ALONE)...Author James G.McCarthy a former Catholic himself wrote a book entitled "The Gospel According to Rome" in which he compares the teachings of Catholicism and the Word of God(get a copy if you can)...WD another good website to research this is www.letusreason.org...Finally Martin Luther)a former Catholic Preist)whom you know started the Protestant Reformation with his nailing of the 95 thesis to the door of the Whittenburg church did so do to the MAJOR differences of what the Catholic Church was teaching when compared to what the Bible was saying...Though I admire you and your just fight against the abuses of Brunson and his posse I lovingly and with total respect have to strongly disagree with you on The Catholic Church.....Thanks your Brother in Christ!!!
WD: You have to realize that these type of speakers (I cannot justify calling them preachers) just love to hear themselves talk. Its their BIG ego that drives them. They want to be held in high esteem. They desire to sit in "high places" and feel and look important. Usually the accompanying trait is a "smallnes" of character. They are seldom charitable to others that arn't useful to them. What they do the rest of their time out of the pulpits must be a real boring position for them to be in as no one is praising them. That's why a lot of them go somewhere almost every week to speak. That and "the money". It's a badge of honor and glory to them to be "esteemed". I doubt they could handle the yard work, fix a flat tire, balance a check book, carry out the garbage, prepare a meal (got to go to the club and eat), being a care giver to a sick parent, hardly ever being around or witnessing to a lost person one on one, not helping their wife with the chores, giving you 30 -40 minutes of their time, in Mac's case l5 minutes. Visiting the sick in the hospitals or nursing homes. And rarely do you hear of a preacher being in the MILITARY, they can't handle it, although they think they are leaders.
No they must be out on speaking engagements, writing books, or meeting with marketing and sales or acting coaches in order to streamline their brand and their performances. All stepping stones to money and power. Really a place of honor that so many strive to become a mega man rather than God's man. Its in their blood like a hollywood actor they just keep pushing onward and upward having a form of Godliness but denying the power thereof.
When they retire most of them will look back and wonder how they made such a disgrace of themselves. But in the hope that others don't notice. Some of these men, after retirement find that they no longer have the "power" and the prestige they once had when they were in the pulpit of a mega church. They no longer have the mega church behind them and therefore have nothing further to offer. So it was the position and the church all along holding them up. Lose the church, lose the power and the money. Even their own children will find very little good to say about them eventually. And when they die who will care that they are gone? Isn't it odd how so much failure accompanys "success"? Compare these men to the likes of Lindsay Sr, Lindsay Jr, Adrian Rogers, Angel Martinez, and Lester Rolloff. "He being dead yet speaketh". As we see here on this blog. It really is difficult for them to obtain real wisdom regardless of how many degrees they have after their name. All is vanity of vanities!!
Instead of reaching for the crowns (the ones that God will present to HIS saints) they settle for a mess of pottage!!
Lastly, I Tim 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach. vs 7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without: lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil. The word without does not have anything to do with substance but rather individuals outside the family of God. Where is the good report of any pastor when he takes pot shots at other churches, other ministries. Or his own church. Where is his hospitality for others? God will deal with all of those people in his own way. Did He not when Jonah would have seen them destroyed? Who can know the mind of God? Didn't Job learn that lesson? I cannot believe what I see or hear from so called pastors today. They are a shame to the Lord and His calling!! Jesus said it best in John 3:17..."For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world: but that the world through him might be saved".
2 Thess. 2:vs.3: "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition". I believe we are in the current falling away of the church.
I guess Jim Smyrl doesn't listen to Sean Hannity then, or vote for whoever Hannity supports, since Mr. Hannity is a DEVOUT and PROUD Catholic.
Readers: The real issue is that anyone that does not blindly follow ALL the theological conclusions that the enlightened Jim Smyrl has "learned" through his doctorate, then those people are not just misguided, but they are unregenerate and now, are cults. Incredible, Jim. Where is this leading you? Guyana, perhaps?
And if you think the WD is divisive, let's see how you handle the outcry from the Catholics running the food banks, homeless shelters, orphanages, right to life, etc etc if your views are made public.
Why not try debating your views instead of popping off in your blog. I am surprised to see such immature statements from you Jim. Right, Catholicism is a cult and anyone who voted for Barack Obama sinned by doing so and even sinned themselves out of fellowship!
And what is always on your mind? Some members being "divisive?" Is this a new problem in the church? One you just recently realized was out there with the advent of blogging. One blogger disagreeing with you, or questioning your views, and you dare say they are divisive. WAKE UP! Why not rather talk to Mac and Honey about their actions and words that are divisive??? YOU brown nosing suck up!!! Isn't nepotism divisive? Isn't overspending on missions divisive? Hosting Jewish fundraisers divisive? Ignoring anon emails divisive, accepting a $307K gift from a member divisive? Jim...in your wisdom you became as a FOOL! Ya Hear me! Got it? Good. You didn't know that? Well you know it now! (Is that tone divisive, too? You bet it is!) Your boss uses it every week. HE is DIVISIVE and you just called HIM out on your blog!
No wonder the baptist are losing members. They get beat over the head at work everyday and go to church to hear more of the same. I can't blame them, I wouldn't go there either regardless of the price of gasoline. The majority of preachers today can't PREACH. Oh, they can tell stories but you can see better ones free on tv.
Jim Smyrl sounds to be on a power trip, telling people how to vote. Whatever happened to separation of church and state? Oh, yeah, I know the answer to that. I grew up around people like Jim Smyrl (a.k.a. Bob Jones University, aka legalism) Enough said for me. Now if you WANT to compare somebody to Jim Jones, then you can start here...with people who tell people how to think and how to vote. Whats next? And really, isn't it ALL about POWER? (You think like me and vote like me or I'll ban your email you sorry whatever.) Yup, I see a power trip here.
I believe there must be a Judgemental Course which is required at some of these seminaries. Its like they, the pastors, have to tell us lowly members of their institutions that we have to bend the knee to them, the all knowing, all seeing Greek and Hebrew speakers who hold Phds.
Forgive me, I had rather listen to J Vernon Mcgee or some old Bob Jones Sr tapes. They just preached the word not their words. Looks like a gloomy day for lost people. Most will reject this new gospel. They never hear the Love of Christ, Eternal Security, and other mysteries that Paul spoke of for us Gentiles. It's not relevant you know to this new generation and it isn't cutting edge!!!
Just give me the old time gospel. Pure and simple.
The saddest thing about all this is that it is happening at FBC Jax. For decades, FBC Jax was aware of this type of abuse going on in churches around it, but it was a fortress of truth. What changed to make FBC just as bad as all the rest? Only ONE thing. Mac replaced Jerry. The church did not gradually become worse over many years and over changing generations. It changed over night when it brought in Mac and Honey to "take over." Shameful and sad. I am just glad I am not on staff and am not a deacon, or my conscious would be killing me. I would feel like a coward with no backbone and a betrayer of my Lord. Now I bet those staff members and deacons can really relate to Peter who denied the Lord 3 times. God will forgive them and they will move on someday, but a great church will have been raped and plundered first. Thank God for other great (and smaller) and faithful churches in our city. Many that you Kool-Aid drinkers drive by on your way downtown to hand in your money!
Sorry Anon, nice try. That was the most intellectually inept post I've read in quite a while. To equate Catholics to that group in your desire to support Smyrl is so stupid I won't even let it through.
Your ignorance tells me who you are. Nice try.
Catholics (who believe like the Catholic church) are not Christians, and I would imagine that anyone who thinks they are probably has a warped view of scripture and justification also.
Watchdog, sometimes I agree with you other times I don't, however, it puts you in a scary and revealing place when you agree with people who deny justification by faith alone, the authority of scripture, and believe Mary is a co-redemptrix with Christ over those in your own church.
My prayers are with you all.
I want to point out another aspect of the hypocrisy behind Smyrl's whack at the Catholic priests as "cult leaders".
How brave of Jumbo Jim to lash out at Catholic priests.
If he were really brave, he'd take a shot at Tom Messer over at Trinity who allowed a pedophile to roam the church for years because said pedophile was "God's man" and Messer was likely "letting God handle it". If Jim wants to attack ministers, call for Messer's resignation for his poor judgement. Nah, Jim won't attack another evangelical Baptist...its one of Jim's buddies! They're a fraternity!
If Jim were as brave and hip and "cutting edge" as he thinks, he would preach without his tie and take a crack at Darrell Gilyard and his enablers over at Shiloh, and call out Vines and PP for their poor judgement in not doing more to alert the Shiloh women that they had a man with an unsatiable appetite for young women. But nah, he can't say anything about the Gilyard mess, that might cast Vines and Patterson in a negative light. Why not Jim call on the church who is allowing Gilyard to preach to banish Gilyard from the church?
Nah. Its SO much easier to just call all Catholic priests "cult leaders". AMEN brother Jim! You're brave! You're hip! Go after those pesky Catholic prietsts!
Sorry, but for Trinity and Shiloh to allow a monster "God's man" to roam and devour God's sheep (men in BOTH churches KNEW what was happening but did nothing)...they were by definition "cults". They worshipped a man and put a man's sexual appetites above the well being of the sheep. Cult. And Gilyard and Grey were the cult leaders. And men under them enabled them. The damage those men did to their victims, they might as well have been handling out cups of cyanide laced Kool Aid like Jim Jones.
The only thing Mac could muster about Darrell Gilyard was to call him the "pastor down the street" that is having some "spiritual struggles".
So I'm not defending the Catholics, I'm asking why does Smyrl have to say such a hurtful thing as to call priets "cult leaders", since that is a term that we've reserved for the likes of Jim Jones, David Koresh, Warren Jeffs, and even Charles Manson. They are "cult leaders". And why does he do this, when he and Mac say NOTHING about the sexual predator cults that emerged at Shiloh and Trinity? Because its in their best interests to NOT say anything on Shiloh and Trinity...but the Catholics are an easy target.
Smyrl thinks he's cute, that he's "edgy", that he's hip, he's cool, brave. Not afraid to preach the truth. No, he's an opportunist preacher like Brunson.
And meanwhile our church is now moving toward allowing ourselves, like Shiloh and Trinity, to be victimized by an abusive preacher. It just so happens our abusive preacher is not reaching his hands in our shorts, just in our wallets.
Sorry you can't read, pal. But I'm not defending Catholics. I'm pointing out that Smyrl doesn't need to lash out at Catholic priests and offend our Catholic friends by referring to the priests as "cult leaders". That term is reserved in our culture for the likes of David Koresh, Charles Manson, and Jim Jones. He has no business using our church website calling Catholic priests "cult leaders". Do you have that? Can you read that?
And I'm also trying to point out that if you read Smyrl's blog post, he is carefully and slyly sending the message that Obama voters are in need of repentence and aren't worthy of full fellowship in church.
Read it. That's what he is espousing.
I recall when, Dr. Gamaliel (Acts chapter 5) discussing what Peter and John were witnessing about God:... different ones rising up and disappearing, one after another. There is going to be a real pay day someday for these young Phdude's who think they KNOW IT ALL. I would get out from there faster than my shoes would carry me. They seem to thrive on lecturing even their elders which is totally unbiblical, stupid, and down right mean spirited. But, that is typically a youth idea. Until THEY are the elders!!!
ALL: Please keep in mind the Catholic Churches position in the end times found in Rev., although it does not state that it is the Catholic Church, all signs point directly to it. Baptist preaching has thus labeled the "end time" church, the Catholic Church. This however, does not allow for the "true Christians" that are in the Catholic Church. Although one wonders how they stay. But, I am concerned with what is happening to the Baptist churches. And perhaps the true Christians in the Baptist faith should not stay. The leaders have let the Lord down, and therefore have let us down. There is enough condemnation to go around. This is why all churches are called the Church of Laodicea in the final church age, of which we are now in. And as it will all soon be destroyed we should be concerned with witnessing to as many as we can.
Dr.Dog I am by no way defending Smyrl...But if your Church teach that people are saved by FAITH AND WORKS...If your Church teach that Mary is co-redemptrix(which means she is a co-savior and without her a person is not saved)...If your Church teach that Mary answers prayers(SOME OF WHICH MARY WOULD HAVE TO BE GOD TO ANSWER)...If your Church teach that without the addition of the sacraments of the Church salavation is out of reach...If your Church teaches that prayers are to be made to the dead on behalf of the living....If your Church states that it is the only TRUE Church...If your Church teaches that a man(Pope)when he speaks from the seat(ex-cathedra)he is ALWAYS right/true...If your Churches leader states that anyone outside of the Catholic Church does not have the completeness of salvation...If your Church says the Pope is the SOLE authority on earth,the representive alone of Christ...If your Church states that only the MAGISTERIUM(Teaching Authority)and the Pope possess the abilty to interpret Scripture(Gnosticism)not regular people...If Church teach that they possess the ability to make people saints...IF YOUR CHURCH TELLS YOU THAT YOU CANNOT DISAGREE WITH THE TEACHINGS OF THE POPE AND THE MAGISTERIUM and remain a Catholic in good standing if at all...Then by defintion it is a cult!!!
Also Dr.Dog no offense meant...If the priest perpetrates these teachings then they are collaborating and unfortunately technically cult leaders...
Nov.17 @8:36: Can you further elaborate on your experience and employment at FBCJ?
It Is Written: Brilliant, absolutely brilliant! I have so far agreed with all of your comments. You are well grounded in the faith. I think your church is blessed to have you.
Now we know Smyrl is REALLY good...not only can he cause division in the church, he's capable of causing division at Watchdog blogsite!
:)
I'm really not interested in debating the Catholic church's doctrine.
I'm interested in Smyrl's hypocrisy and arrogance in using our church website to call Catholic priests "cult leaders", and at the same time telling us that Obama voters need to repent. That's really the issue here.
If Catholic priests are "cult leaders" - OK, let's say they are - does it help the cause of Christ, does it help the mission of our church to call them "cult leaders" from our church blogsite when we are trying to reach out to members of the Catholic church who need Christ? Or is it just grandstanding? Does it help the cause of Christ for Mac to single out low britches from the pulpit to be something he detests? Or is it just grandstanding?
Using inflammatory words, true or not, to describe a certain segment of the population that we do want to reach with the gospel, doesn't help our church in its mission. It might make Jim feel powerful and cool and "cutting edge" to write that on our blog site, but his immaturity, his in inability to use discernment in his words, as a pastor of FBC Jax, is amazing.
Dr.Dog I am with you one-hundred percent against the abuses of Brunson and his posse!!!!But error has to be confronted with truth and oftentimes it is unpleasant...I remember before I got saved the last thing I WANTED TO HEAR WAS THE TRUTH THAT I WAS A MESS,A SINNER...The ony way we can bring people out of deception of Catholacism is by lovinly telling them the truth...This may hurt initially but hopefully it will open their eyes...Jesus once told the Pharisees "you err not knowing the Scriptures and the power of God"...The Apostle Paul was given a MANDATE in Acts 26:18 "To open their eyes,and turn them from darkness to light,and from the power of Satan unto God,that they may receive forgive of sins,and inheritance among them which are SANCTIFIED(MADE SAINTS)BY FAITH(not by an earthly Pope or Church)THAT IS IN ME(JESUS)...Thanks for letting me blog my thoughts...Your brother in Christ!!!
Key word:
"lovingly"
It is not "loving" to use the words "cult leader" to describe catholic priests, when those words are universally used in our culture for David Koresh, Charles Manson, and Jim Jones. So it is, in my opinion, very unloving, and unnecessary for the cause of Christ for a baptist pastor who is interested in starting satellite churches on all sides of town to call catholic priests "cult leaders".
It is written - I don't think the WD believes faith PLUS works like the Catholic church is correct. It is not. We all agree on that. However, we also don't believe the Jews have it right, or the Methodists, or the Charismatics, are correct on their beliefs either but should one of our staff pastors be calling them offensive and hurtful names on our church blog? Jim talks about not being divisive when his topic is divisive in and of itself. Ironic isn't it.
And sure, the Catholic church has many "wrong" doctrines and traditions and practices. So does MAC! For example, he stated "when you become a Christian you are under obligation..." Then he lists some of his favorites. He has also said "when you joined this church you agreed to thes by-laws and you agreed to tithe. You didn't know that? Well you know it now." So, give Mac the power of the POPE and about 2000 more years of history, and I can guarantee you his abuses and his list of what is "required" for one to be a Christian will be longer than that of the Catholic church.
And WD is right on regarding Smyrl being an opportunist. No way he opens his mouth about Gilyard, Gray, Messer, Gaines, or Brunson. But boy he will be quick to weigh in on the Catholics, who trust in Christ for salvation, believe in the Virgin Birth, observe the sacraments, provide social ministry that Christ modeled, and provide leadership in our society like no other Christian group. Sure, I personally believe they add works to what Christ did, but don't we all in some way?
And you better believe Mac and Jim would excommunicate you from the church if they could. And others would burn you at the stake if they could. Thankfully, they don't have the power or ability to do this. None of their followers would stop them.
Blog on my brothers! :)
Readers - supporters of Mac and WD supporters alike: An occasional defender of Mac Brunson's abuses likes to come on and act indignant about the hypothetical response of a non-Christian that might read this blog. We can only guess, right? Well not when it comes to how non-Christians have responded to Jim Smyrl's blog (an "official" FBC Jax blog.) Cut and paste this link to read how Jim Smyrl is seen by the lost. Especially be sure to read the comments section. You will see that it is Jim Smyrl, NOT a lay person like the WD, that is turning people off from Jesus, Christians and particularly Baptist. Of course I don't agree with the bloggers views about the gay lifestyle, but I can not refute their personal observations about Jim Smyrl. And Team Brunson supporters have the gall to come on here and act like this blog could be harmful to non-Christian readers. Get real! Check out this blog and the comments section to get a dose of reality!
http://chexxyspearls.blogspot.com/2008/10/in-response-to-jim-smyrls-point-of-view.html
Hey WD - I have to hand it to Maurilio. I had not been to the church website in some months but went tonight and saw a totally revamped, first class web site. Its about time! 360 Network to watch sermons, online registration for the PC, etc. Very professionally done. Let's give credit where credit is due.
Speaking of Jim Smyrl - check out this bit of hypocrisy he wrote on his loyalheartministries blog:
"Expenditures on
candies for kids or coffee for big kids is not viewed with the same scrutiny as pastoral salaries or
staff sabbaticals, for the pursuit of a pleasurable Christianity unifies the pew with the heart of
politics. As we enter into the heat of debates over government spending and appalling cost actors for toilet seats, let us look to our own spending of Kingdom funds. The next time you pay to be spiritually nourished by entertaining music ministers, write a check for Jesus cruises, sign over property for
the aesthetic pleasures of our children, or fund a spiritual mountain top excursion for your teens, make sure you are holding yourself to a higher standard than those who manage national
resources. They will give an account of what they wasted by our standards at the poll. We will give
an account of what we wasted by Jesus standards at the judgment.
Amen Jim. You (and we) will all give an account for Mac and Honey's and Treys and your salaries. And what "scrutiny of a pastor's salary" do you refer to? None of the members know any of these salaries. No accountability to those that give the money Jim. NONE. And YOU know it. So, Jim. YOU are a hypocrite. If not, please explain why you are not, either here or on your own blog.
You are pathetic Jimbo.
I have some questions, and if anyone else already mentioned these sorry in advance. I didn't read every comment.
1.)If Jim Smyrl finds Catholicism a cult than why would he then applaud them for refusing communion to people. Why would he care? Wouldn't most people actually find that an example of the cult trying to "control their membership"?
2.)I voted for Bob Barr, do I need to repend too?
Smyrl is in deep trouble with Mac.
Mac said at the baseball diamond that he would join hands with all churches in Jacksonville. That means all. Catholic Churches fall into the all catagory. The Florida Baptist Witness even has a Catholic columnist. Chuck Colson. Rick Warren and the SBC are trying to join hands with the Catholics. Ecumenism is raising its ugly head. Therefore, if Smyrl trys to separate himself from the Catholics, he is going against his BOSS. Mac.
Keep it up Jim an you will be history. For Mac will tell you that he is not a SEPERATIST. He said he is a" COOPERATIVE".
Dr.Dog...I would like to know at least one thing....Would Pope Brunson have come to preach the GLORIOUS GOSPEL for little or no money(I work full time in a secular job)?..The Apostle Paul worked with his own hand at times so as not to be a burden on some of the Churches he pastored...Brunson COMMANDS that you guys tithe even if your personal bills go unpaid...Wonder would he take a massive cut in pay to help FBC Jax meet it financial obligations....NOT!!!!
Matthew 5:4-6
4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
Dr.Dog....Remember when I mention the DAY OF FAITH that was held at the FBC Jax facilities...This event would have included people of all faiths coming together no matter what god they believed in and would pray for peace from crime in our communities...Even Atheist and agnostics could come and pray at this event...Was there any outcry from Smyrl over this debacle?....I'm sure that Elijah on Mount Carmel thought about getting together with the Priests of Baal and Ashtaroth and pray for rain to end their drought....If there was no outcry::Thats hypocrisy!!
Yo Dog,
Smyrl did not come in the 90's.
He came around 01 or 02.
Second,
Do you even remember what he was like back then?
If I had one complaint about Smyrl is that he appeared to only be interested in people who were of some status (people who sit on the right side of the pulpit looking out to the doors)
Jim, if this is not true... please do something to make it look different.
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