Let's review the musings of Jim Smyrl in the past few weeks:
- Catholic priets are "cult leaders"
- the Catholic church is a "cult"
- Catholics voting for Obama should be denied communion
- Christians who voted for Obama committed a "sin" that must be repented of
- Christians who voted for Obama may be guilty of "breaking fellowship" with their church.
Jim made these statements on the official website of the FBC Jacksonville. Go here and read them for yourself.
They therefore represent the views of every single member of the FBC Jacksonville. We are members of the church just as Jim is, and he is representing the views of our church to be those I listed above.
Don't agree with that? OK, let's take another approach.
Mac Brunson is the Senior Pastor of First Baptist Church of Jacksonville.
Jim Smryl is the Executive Pastor of Education. Jim Smyrl reports directly to Mac Brunson.
The church marketing firm "The A Group" manages the church website. Mac is very close to Maurilio Amorim, the owner of "The A Group". We could say Maurilio reports directly to Mac Brunson.
If you or I were the pastor of a church, and one of our subordinates wrote hurtful and provocative statements on our church website that might harm my church's ability to fulfill its mission, that might unnecessarily offend the very people my church was trying to reach with the gospel, you or I would have that person remove them from the website in the blink of an eye. We would call the webmaster and have them removed. Especially if the dummy posted them the very week our school is beginning its enrollment campaign.
We would remove them immediately...unless....unless...
...unless we agreed with the statements. Unless I agreed with, and was proud of the cleverness of my subordinate's assertions. Then, and only then, would I allow them to stay up on the church's website for which I am ultimately responsible. I wouldn't make it a matter of his "free speech", since its not HIS website, but its the website of the entire church. The things stated on the FBC Jax website are those that represent all of its members. Its not Jim's and Mac's website, its the official website of FBC Jacksonville and the members who's money funds the site.
Did you get that Mac and Jim? The FBC Jax website is not a place for you to pop-off about other denominations and to declare others a "cult" for the purpose of being "cutting edge" and offending those we are trying to minister to. Its not a place for you to declare those who vote a certain way that they have sinned. Do that on your 501(c)3 websites. If your views are so wonderful and insightful and so "cutting edge", they will draw traffic to your 501(c)3 website. Heck, you might even get someone to get their MasterCard out and donate money to your 501(c)3 when they read with your wonderful Catholic and Obama insights.
So I will assume, as I'm sure will others in our community, that Mac's INACTION in removing Smyrl's statements from our church website means that Mac concurs with them. Certainly Mac would have removed them if he thought they were improper, or if he agreed with them BUT thought them harmful to our church's ministry.
Mac or Debbie Brunosn could make one phone call to either Jim Smyrl, or to Maurilio Amorim, and have the statements removed from our website pronto.
So Mac, your inaction to remove those statements by Jim implicates you. We now know that you agree with Jim Smyrl. Catholics are in a cult. Catholics in our city are cult members. Their priests are "cult leaders". You know, like other notorious "cult leaders" like Charles Manson, David Koresh, and Jim Jones. Mac must also believe that Obama voters committed a "sin", and must repent. Perhaps in the Sunday alter call Mac can call for all Obama voters to come forward and "get right with the Lord" or "rededicate their lives". Interesting, isn't it, that Mac and Jim have no words of condemnation for Bob Gray. No words of rebuke against Darrel Gilyard. But boy, Mac and Jim have to put those pesky Catholic cultists in their place.
I hope the Catholic priets in Jacksonville remember this when Mac tries to get press coverage by hosting the "Day of Prayer" at our church. The Catholic Cult is not allowed.
Can you tell us, Jim and Mac, what other Christian denominations are a cult? Perhaps as you let us know what books are acceptable to read, you can also tell us who we should not associate with because of their "cult status".
Our church is getting more bizarre by the day.
40 comments:
WD and the readers: I will admit I am a neophyte in these matters, but I am learning quickly.
The matter you speak of is rearing its ugly head in SBC. This is not local to fbcjax anymore. It's not just Catholics anymore. They are going after other denominations. This questioning is coming after the John 3:16 conference and its aftermath.
Please follow the links and posts and decide for yourself.
Grace and Truth to You: The Nashville Tales: Lessons from Chaucer
Grace and Truth to You: The Nashville Tales: Lessons from Chaucer : Thy Peace Links ...
Literally millions of people are hell-bound due to the deception of Roman Catholicism. It may not be a cult but it sure is a false religion; not even Christian. Thank goodness for those who are not afraid to proclaim the truth.
If the Pearl thinks Catholicism is a cult, then why would he care whether or not anyone is denied communion in Catholic churches?
This comment doesn't necessarily apply to the current post, but is a general comment on what appears to be taking place at First, Jax, First, Ocala, Bellevue, Memphis, and hundreds of "wannabes." I'm thinking of writing two books. One would be titled Selling the Church, examining the current fad in church growth to employ Mad Men (Madison Avenue PR firms) to increase sales (i.e., grow the church numerically and financially in order to outdo the competitors). The second would be Where Have All the Shepherds Gone? subtitled "The rise of the Imperial Pastor." Using the language of Zion and following role models like Paige Patterson and others of his ilk, churches have bought in to the current church culture, which is not really different from the culture of American consumerism. Bottom line is that we don't have Biblical pastors anymore. We have self-annointed CEO's who are driven by the desire to achieve celebrity satus. Of course, Mac and his kind would recoil at such a judgmental statement. But, deep down inside, their conscience, if it still is functional, tells them that they not only have deluded the churches they lead, but they are, more tragically, self deluded as they receive reinforcement for what they do from other pastoral celebrities. Oh well, nobody would buy my book so I'll just wait and watch the mammouth mega-churches become white elephants in another generation or two. But I won't watch with joy, but with deep sorrow.
Thy Peace you state the SBC and pastors of its organization, are going after other demoninations! ALERT: They go after their own members if it suits their purpose or if they perceive an imaginary threat to their "emipre and rule"!
I have seen some of these egotist destroy good people within their own churches without even a blink. People that never did, or infer any harm to anyone. But, the almighty ego couldn't allow someone else to be thought as much of as they, or if someone else were correct in a matter and they were not. So of course the pesky church member must be destroyed!
To the matter of Gray and Gilyard a different problem: Could it be the reason the SBC has not spoken AGAINST Gilyard is because they originally supported him? But they DID speak against Sheri Klouda, and of course TRIED to destroy her! I wonder if they get together somewhere or E Mail each other with a list of people to destroy and a list of people to support, so that they are always TOGETHER on a matter? Church politics, fame and money have replaced preaching Gods word as the motivating factor for becoming a preacher.
The SBC must always have a "cause celeb" to condemn. It's just never one in their own camp. Keep in mind many children from FBC attended Trinity, Grays church school. Gilyard was much in SBC favor as it appeared, even AFTER his abuses in Dallas. The past offenses, of which, they HAD knowledge, and met with Gilyard over did not seem to be important. They took the course of least resistance in just not "dealing" with the problem. Now why would they NOT deal with it, but try to "sweep" it under the rug, so to speak? THEY would be proven fallible! And then what happens to their positions and "THE MONEY"? The SBC has not officially, as I know of, spoken against the Gilyard problem. I know that Gray was not in the SBC, and was an independent, but Vines did speak at both churches Trinity and Gilyard's, after these things came to light. And Trinity did, as it appears, try to cover up for Gray for years. Thus the sudden departure of Gray to Germany for several years.
But "The great ones", of the SBC hang together in support of attacking other denominations and other Christians for doctrinal, disputes. That's an easy target. The problem is they "never" but "never" admit an error on their part. I don't know who I am more afraid of, conflicting doctrines in other churches or egotist preachers in my denomination.
The Catholic Church is not a cult per se, it has over a billion members. It has cultish tactics in some areas but on the whole it is not a cult. It would be virtually impossible to control over a billion people world wide. At the same time, we should recognize that all denominations use doctrine and the "personality power" of their preachers to control their members. And thus, show cultish tendencies in their denominations. The problem with all of these factions is: Who is the AUTHORITY, God or man!!! When man trys to take Gods place of AUTHORITY then you have a false religion. The church in the end times, spoken of in Rev., the church of Laodicea, includes not only the Catholic church, but all churches that have placed themselves on Gods throne. The true church to be raptured, is the body of believers, that have trusted Jesus Christ as Savior, no matter what church they attend.
It must be noted that most denominations have deep roots in the Catholic Church. I believe there are true believers in every denomination.
I also believe we must keep the main thing the main thing. Do you believe you are a sinner, that Jesus is the Son of God, that He came to earth to die to pay the bill for your sins and resurrected on the third day, and do you accept that gift, and Jesus is now Lord and Master of your life?
Done.
All these "pastors" that are getting so involved with the other "stuff" and leading people away from the main thing I believe will have a tremendous amount of answering to do on Judgment Day.
8:29 You are so correct. These mega church "talkers" are so in love with themselves they do not have time to study the WORD. That's why they spend so much time on trivia and meaningless puny sermons which deal with the world, and their agenda. They have brought the world into the church rather than focusing on the treasures within scripture. But, this is cutting edge don't you know. One calls it fresh.
They are so concerned about their members that they can't wait to run out of the church building after a puny 30-40 minute speech on nothing that matters in eternity. They have the right message alright, throw stones and talk down to everyone, that is in opposition to them. This is the way they try to influence the weak minded into obedience. Another ten years or so and the Baptist will be a lot worse than the Catholics. Baptist are also into mind control, what books you can read, what tv programs to watch, etc, etc. Look who's calling whom a cult. They sure sound legalistic to me. Imagine if you are a member of one of these mega churches paying a speaker $350,000 to $750,000 a year plus bonuses to talk 3 times and most times 2 times a week for 42 weeks or a total of 84 or 126 times on an average of 42 to 63 hours at these rates. Their staffs do the real work of looking after the buildings, decorations, maintenance problems, lighting, plumbing, marriages, funerals, hospital visits and mid week prayer services, planning, budgeting, witnessing, and above all taking orders from the "bosses". This, in order, to make the said "bosses" look good. So said "bosses" can try to justify the HUGE salaries they receive. etc,etc. Yeah, they really have it rough don't they? Sounds like most corporate CEO's!!
While all the time those in the church never really hear a doctrinal message or how the blood cleanses them from all sin. Well, I guess this new fad of doing nothing will progress right into the great tribulation when all of this nonsense can be burned up. Jesus is the only way to get us out of this Laodicean church age. These churches make God so sick he spews them out of His mouth. Rev. Chp.3. Neither hot or cold...just lukewarm little messages to make one go away happy content to have been in the pew today. Hopeless, hopeless, and still hopeless.
This is off topic: Please excuse, but, I must register a complaint. Being home this past week I was not in attendance, and this 8:00 AM, TV service was evidently last Sunday nights church service. The music was absolutely horrible. Had I been there I would have left. I don't know who was responsible for "allowing" that noise, but it was jarring, down to the teeth. We are not a foot stomping, jumping, jive, screaming type of church. It sounded like a bunch of squaling cats in fight. Please no more of that stuff. Hymns that speak to the soul, and that put one in a mind set to hear the Word is much more required. That is, "when", we occasionaly get the Word, and not a tongue lashing, or a prophesoric dictum.
Where do I began and I shall be brief. I endured (2) years at Trinity Christian Academy. I grew up (literally from birth) at FBC Jax. Having said that, I doubt Smyrl has ever attended a Cath-o-lic mass or even has any friends that are Cath-o-lic. I believe that alot of self righteous people are going to be very surprised when they get to heaven and see that they aren't the only ones that made the cut. I have attended quite a few masses as I have traveled on business and have trully worshipped God. I have also attended a Lubavich-Chabad and worshipped God with the Rabbi. (Some) Baptist just think they have a pipe-line to God.
Now, the stuff about obamanation. I have a hard time understanding how ANY one that is trully born again could have voted for the infanticide supporting, marxist crack head that is our next president. You have got to be kidding me. On this I agree with the pearl.
Dawg, I think you are just looking for a fight that isn't there. Don't be a leg-humper over this issue. By the way, Bob Gray was an autocratic uber-legalistic tyrant.
1:54- I'm in the choir and I would like to respond. I looked on my choir sheet from last rehearsal and last week we did "Oh Taste and See" and "No Word But Holy." I don't see anything "jive" about that unless you're referring to the race of the soloist. So, I'm assuming you're talking about the song sung by Utmost Praise (basically the black ensamble).
What specific objections do you have to the music last Sunday night, and what do you think about the music tonight?
tuna - you miss the point on Obama.
I would never in a million years vote for Obama, for the issues of life, family, and anti-capitalist views he espouses. Period.
But I'm just not going to play God and tell Obama voters that they are sinning by voting for the man. And I won't put it on my church's website to represent the views of my fellow church members.
No complaints here on the music last week or this week. All excellent. Outstanding. Great job Whitmire and Dickinson and choir and orchestra. I don't know what that anon is refering to.
No I am NOT referring to race at all. I was referring to the type of loud music sung, only. Please stop trying to pick a fight where there is none. Most of the choir and orchestra music is usually outstanding, but occasionally it is not conducive to thoughtful, spiritual worship, when it is too loud and rock oriented. Which is what I stated in the original blog.
A lil help from an FBD reader for Jacksonville members who don't understand your feelings about your pastor.
Its called BFS.
Brunson Fatigue Syndrome.
It sets in sometime between 6 mos. and 4 yrs after initial exposure. Some show signs of BFS very soon after initial exposure, others are very resistant and it takes much longer. Symptoms: aggrivation, rolling eyes, head nods, dizziness, feeling of euphoria followed by confusion, followed by sleepiness. Extended exposure causes an irritional dislike and fear of history.
Treatment: only known cure for BFS is over-zealous search committees with huge budget and negotiating skills, and large doses of land gifts and nepotism. Follow this with loving humble pastor and cure is complete.
BRUNSON FATIGUE SYNDROME...I like that label. It pretty much diagnosis my symptoms. :)
Anon 8:57
I'm glad I do not have the same BFS symptoms; I believe it is fatal.
You are right, we should have the remarks removed and a disclaimer replacing the remarks stating how good and honorable the catholic church is.
How dare we support such people (pastor and staff) who would dare call a believing group . such as the catholics, a cult?
Thanks for reminding us that the words used on the church web site are read by many and:
1 - do not reflect the heart and mind of the people
2 - can be seen as words which would hinder the furtherance of the gospel.
Oh, that we could all understand such wisdom.
remarks stating how good and honorable the Catholic church is? Who is advocating saying that on our church website?
What's wrong with just proclaiming the gospel and letting the holy spirit work? Must we use our church website to overtly point out the error of other denominations? Is that what Theology Driven Ministry is in our church, that we now are going to point out the theology errors of other churches?
I'm all for Christians knowing the differences between denominations, and I'm all for them knowing the beliefs of Jehovah's witneses, Mormons, SDA's, etc. Knowledge helps us witness. That is what CHURCH TRAINING is all about..remember that? "Church Training"? Having wise lay leaders train people on topics such as these? Didn't need to bring the semnaries in to teach us...
But the declaration on the church website: HEY, ALL YOU CATHOLICS ARE CULT MEMBERS, AND ALL YOU CATHOLIC PRIESTS ARE CULT LEADERS...that is unnecessary, unproductive, and harmful to the ministry and mission of FBC Jax to reach people with the gospel. Its called being rude and arrogant in the name of "doctrine". But go for it Jim Smyrl! Preach on brother!
I like Maurilio's latest blog post where he gives interpretations of spiritual statements made by church leaders.
This one was good:
"The Holy Spirit spoke to me last night and told me we need to..."
and Maurilio translated that as:
"I spoke to my wife last night and she said we need to..."
Right on, Maurilio! You nailed it!
Well then hopefully we can agree on what I said...:
Thanks for reminding us that the words used on the church web site are read by many and:
1 - do not reflect the heart and mind of the people
2 - can be seen as words which would hinder the furtherance of the gospel.
Oh, that we could all understand such wisdom.
What if this situation of defaming other churches, were reversed. What if the Catholic or any other church were suddenly to start a campaign againt Baptist or against FBCJ in particular. How do you think we would react? Can't you imagine the histronics coming from our pulpit? We are supposed to try to win Catholics and others to Christ if they are not saved. Some Catholics and others don't know they are lost. How do you have influence with the very people you are insulting. If someone came to my house with an "I know it all, and you don't" attitude, believe me it would be an interesting visit,if they got in my house. We have undone many bridges to others in this community. Bridges built by other pastors, before Brunson and Smyrl became so "important", make that before they were born.
I am not unaware of DOCTRINAL differences in other religions. That is why I am a Baptist. I align my beliefs closely with Baptist beliefs. But, above all I am a Bible Believer. If any religion, even Baptist, move one bit from my Bible, I stick with the Bible. I have disagreed with Baptist pastors before, even Brunson. Especially Brunson as he changes and uses scripture for his own purposes. Man is fallible, but God and His Word are not. The point being, God will judge and man will be judged.
Why would this church, who always had a good name, (In the Lindsay era), suddenly and deliberately try to alienate the community we live and worship in. It makes no sense whatsoever. We all know Catholic, Baptist, Church of God, Methodist, etc., have different beliefs and different approaches to worship and Bible interpretation. That is why we have different denominations. So why paint FBCJ in such a bad light, as to "pick a fight", with Catholics? They are not going away, by the way. There are over 1 billion Catholics to 16 million in the SBC.
Paul, when he went to Mars Hill, didn't preach about their Gods. He preached about the unknown God. This is what we are to do. Stop trying to tear someone elses religion down, just to try to make ourselves look important, and make one or two people look like Bible scholars, which they are NOT. We should just preach about our God!!! Preach Jesus Christ and His Saving Grace. Preach the Blood and the Cross, every chance we can. And leave the result to the Holy Spirit to convict.
Couldn't have said it better myself. I agree completely Anon, well done.
My guess is, although he'll never admit it, Smyrl is trying to be "provocative". He wants to be "cutting edge". He doesn't like be overshadowed by Brunson. He'll use the blog and his confusing writings to draw attention to himself. I just wish he would do it on his own website and not bash the Catholics under the banner of "FBC Jacksonville".
anon said:
"This is what we are to do. Stop trying to tear someone elses religion down, just to try to make ourselves look important, and make one or two people look like Bible scholars, which they are NOT. We should just preach about our God!!! Preach Jesus Christ and His Saving Grace. Preach the Blood and the Cross, every chance we can. And leave the result to the Holy Spirit to convict."
Amen and amen. This is not only for those in the pulpit but for each of us believers.
Keep informing us of the inadequacies of our staff dog. You are right on target.
I happened to catch some of Mac's Sunday night service from last week on Sunday morning TV. The man is so arrogant as to now try and tell me what an apology is and what one isn't. He says the apology is not valid unless it has all of his required elements. Can you imagine the arrogance of such a man.
Hey Mac:
1) I am not sorry for discussing your abuses here on the blog.
2) If and when I ever owe you an apology for anything I have blogged about, I will treat you with the same "respect" you have treated me and the rest of your congregation with: NONE.
3) Got that? Well you know it now!
4) I am now making a stupid looking face, looking back to where I was just standing, and saying "Amen" to myself! I bet I look and sound just as ridiculous as you do when you amen yourself in front of your congregation.
1) I am not sorry for discussing your abuses here on the blog.
** And why should we be sorry. We have every right to discuss publicly your abuses.
2) If and when I ever owe you an apology for anything I have blogged about, I will treat you with the same "respect" you have treated me and the rest of your congregation with: NONE.
** I like this. We will apply the golden rule to your behavior. We believe the way you treat us us the way you want to be treated.
3) Got that? Well you know it now!
** And don't you forget it.
4) I am now making a stupid looking face, looking back to where I was just standing, and saying "Amen" to myself! I bet I look and sound just as ridiculous as you do when you amen yourself in front of your congregation.
** Modeling you, our pastor, should be an encouragement to you. Would you really want anything less?
Watchdog you are just as wrong as Brunson is financially.
We are NOT to tolerate false teachers. Catholics are not our friends. They ARE a false religion. If they, or others, are repulsed from FBC, who cares? People will be repulsed from the truth of the cross. 1 Corinthians 1.
What matters is that they are confronted with the truth of the gospel that they deny!
Colossians 2:8-10, 2 John 7, 1 Timothy 4:1-5, Jude 3
False Teachers must be exposed, even by name. Paul did this routinely. Carefully read 1 Timothy chapter 1.
May God help you. It is obvious that your bitterness takes precedence to the truth of God's word.
A suggestion: Why not invite two Catholic Priests to debate Mac and Jim, several Sunday nights. This would allow for both sides of a position to be stated.
1. Abortion (probably agree)
2. Salaries (probably agree)
3. Positions on other religious groups.
4. Missionary trips (whats the real function)
5. Witnessing (do we do that at FBC any more?)
6.Who is the Authority God or man. (I really want to hear this one).
7. Bible texts (where does their Bible come from)
8. Importance of Mary in todays church? Her position as Co-Regent?
9. The Resurrection. Who will be resurrected if theirs is only one true church.
10. Hell, who's going, in their opinion?
11. Any other pertinent questions including Doctrines.
They could maybe, agree on a certain number of subjects to discuss. Another matter is , who would moderate. Would really be interesting and informative.
Back in the 1950's channel 4 had a program I believe it was called "Religious Forum". It was comprised of four different denominations; Baptist, Catholic, Jewish, and another one. Dr Witty of Central Baptist, the pastors of Riverside Baptist, Mayfair, and University Baptist were on quite often and several others who were on every week on Sunday afternoons. It was a roundtable discussion on many aspects of their respective churches beliefs. It was very informal and one could learn from the various speakers how they differed on theology. I would like to see that program returned as it would dispel rumors and opinions that are untrue, as those who spoke, actually gave us their views and debated the issues for all to see.
Arrogance breeds Arrogance.
People are not "repulsed" by the cross - they accept the cross or reject the cross.
People are "repulsed" by so called Christians who treat them as outsiders, as the enemy, as not like them, unworthy, more lowly etc...
Jesus came to seek and to save the lost. He was harsh on those who proclaimed themselves to be greater than others - Pharisees in particular, but anyone who placed themselves in a higher position than those around them. He came with humility, with genuine love for those who were meek, poor, shunned by society, the downtrodden. That is the Gospel of Jesus - to reach out to those in need of a savior in love and kindness. We are to be light and salt to others - not judges and dispensators of doctrinal theologys - salt & light.
Keep that in mind the next time you witness to someone who may be of another denomination - don't argue theology - share Christ's love, his shed blood, his perfect payment for our sins, his resurrection and the changing power of his grace and mercy. That will soften the heart of the most entrenched theologian or wicked and vile sinner. The approach of "now let me show where you are so off based on your theology that you are going to hell so fast it will make your head swim" typically doesn't work at least in my experiences.
Dwell on Jesus - it will change your perspective.
3:03 pm. You chose to leave out a few pertinent verses in your argument.
1. I Tim 2:1 "I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men". Note this is directed to a pastor by the apostle Paul. Note especially the persons the pastor is to do this for, "all men".
2. I Tim 3:2 "A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach". It would be very difficult to be blameless when one individual judges another since God is the true judge not man. It would also be most difficult to have hospitality toward another individual when one points the finger of criticism to the other. This would not be very productive in expressing an outward appearance of love, much less an inward appearance of real love to another.How would a lost person, who happened to have been raised a Catholic, feel if he visited a church and heard this message. He/she would probably leave. There are some born again former Catholics attending FBC right now. What if they are trying to witness to their own family members or friends who are still lost Catholics? I suggest it will do more harm than good.
3. Jesus said that he gave us a new commandment. "that ye have love one toward another". Very hard to have love with this attitude of superiority. This type attitude does not draw people to it, but rather drives them away. That is one of the chief reasons churches are dying. Satan knows exactly how to seperate us by this tactic, keep our eyes off Jesus and put us at war with each other. Great job, Satan wins everytime.
4.Titus 3:1-2 "Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work, to speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, showing all meekness unto all men". Here again, all men.
5.Matt 7:1 "Judge not, that ye be not judged". This includes us all.
6.Matt 7:3 "And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye". Dr Lindsay Jr., preached this passage almost every year. He was the perfect example of a peacemaker.
7.Prov 11:30 "He that winnith souls is wise". You can't win them when you are demeaning them.
8.Gen 4:9 "And the Lord said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper".
This question of my brother's keeper is not only recorded in Genesis, but when Jesus discussed the good Samaritan and the Prodigal son. Over and over again Jesus reached out to the publicans and sinners and that is what we are supposed to be doing. Just hanging out with our own local assembly and ignoring a dying and hell bent group of people all around us is not performing the Great Commission. We are to let our light shine and sprinkle salt wherever we go, but not put salt in the wounds of those to whom we disagree. How charitable is that? Dr. Lindsay preached on this theme year after year. He even dealt with this on numerous occasions when he spoke to the school age children to be good examples when they went to the public schools. Dr. Lindsay Sr. spoke of it every Sunday night when he discussed our going into the shop, in the office, and everywhere else we were to go with his closing of "The End of A Perfect Day".
The Jews rejected Christ, as the messiah, but thank God, otherwise we as Gentiles would not have been grafted into the Kingdom. We are to pray for them. God gives us a promise for us as Christians if we do pray for the nation of Israel. If we bless them God will bless us.
We need to know when to stand up as Baptist and fight some cause. Striking out against the Catholics, is in my opinion, and from what I read in the Bible, not the way to win them to the Lord if they are lost.
You asked Watchdog to read carefully I Tim chapter 1. I did and found the following: vs 5 "Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:". This verse demonstrates love not accusitory language.
vs. 13. "Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief". People change as the Word of God penetrates their soul. There's hope for all of us and that is why the Bible speaks of so great a salvation.
vs 15. "This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief". I think we could and should learn of Paul, that it is never too late for one to come to the TRUTH.
vs 16: "I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting".
The Holy Spirit does the convicting of the unbeliever not us. It takes seconds for some, days and weeks for others, and yes even years for some people. But, that my friend is His business and not yours or mine. I remember one friend praying for another friend for over fifty years. The friend who was praying died and because of his witness the unsaved man came to Christ.
As for Watchdog's bitterness, I haven't witnessed it. I would rather classify it as seeking the truth and asking for openess on the part of the church leadership. Remember, WD's not hiding anything, he's simply asking questions and unfortunately, those that have the answers are holding them close to the vest. And for what reason is there to hide these questions. Even public officials in a secular world must disclose certain information to acquire the trust of the American people, and indeed to acquire the job at all.
A verse to remember: knowing the truth will set you free. Whose the prisoner of the facts here? Just publish the facts and all of Watchdog's questions will vaporize like mist on a summer morning. So, I would suggest someone in leadership just put their cards on the table so to speak. It can't be that embarrassing can it??? CAN IT???
Lastly, a verse that needs to be on everyone's lips and memory because it is still with us: "A brother is born for adversity".
Just think, if Cain had loved Abel rather than hating him; Joseph's ten brothers had hatred for Joseph, Esau had hatred toward Jacob, and Ishmael toward Isaac. The world sure would have been different. The Spirit is willing but the flesh is WEAK. These were brothers in flesh, but it also applies to spiritual brothers as well. It really is a shame that we can retrieve some verses to critique others while ignoring other verses which apply to us.
God forgive us. Even Jesus said Father forgive them for they know not what they do. So very, very true.
This is addressed to Saved people: Being Saved we pretty much know what we believe. Most of us are not likely going to be led into false doctrines. Not while in serious thought, and prayer. That is where our Bible, and the Holy Spirit play a role in the life of the "true believer". That of protection. So we don't really worry as believers about false doctrines affecting the believer. We worry about false doctrines affecting the lost world. Now here is my question to you that are saved: When you were lost, would you have likely been won to the Lord, through the witness of someone who critized you? What if that person telling you about the Lord talked down to you, or had an ugly attitude, demeaning you, unkindly. Perhaps telling you what a really "bad" person you were while proclaiming how much better they were than you. Do you think they would have had much success in winning you to the Lord? I don't think so either!!
Catholics believe that faith without works is dead. That is in the Bible. They also believe that 'unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood" means what it says. They may be "wrong" to us, but their theology is in the Bible.
Basically, faith plus some works that show your faith and commitment is real. Compare that to Baptists who say all you have to do is say a prayer and you are once saved always saved. Yet, in practice, Catholics don't really require such works, yet Baptists actually do! Remember Mac telling us we are "under obligation" and when we joined the church we agreed to tithe and do a host of other things. Funny, Baptists are under more rules than the Catholics when it comes to mega churches. The hypocrisy of Mac and Jimmy are embarrassing and obvious. Yet they don't even see it.
And Mark Cummins wasted no time in starting a new church. Read about it and see the pictures at his blog site:
http://www.incourageu.com/
Sorry - the above is in response to a post in my FBC Ocala article from last week.
Just a little off topic, but it needs to be said.
As a longtime member of FBC 45+ years, I do not recall the Chairman of Deacons ever writing a letter to either Dr. Lindsay or Dr. Vines praising them publicly as has been recently done. If it was, would someone be so kind as to post it here? I would really like to compare the letters (if available) as would many others Thanks.
Extraordinary times require extraordinary measures.
Never before have our pastors been under such pressure and question. Mac has many questions raised about his leadership, giving is down, and we're getting ready to move into a 20 million dollar capital program. So to try to calm the fears of the plebe, the top two guys give Mac a "vote of confidence" by declaring how lucky and thankful we are for Mac and his wife. Thanks be unto God for our wonderful pastor.
But the questions remain, and Mac is as defiant as ever.
Dog,
What is your opinion of the latest installment in the Pearl's "Catholic Cult" series?
Smyrl really does want us to agree that they are a cult, doesn't he?
When you read around the blogosphere and read the very intelligent people discussing important SBC doctrinal matters, you realize Smyrl is a LIGHT WEIGHT.
Listen, we know what the Catholic Church is and stands for. Countless books have been written about its' history. So Smyrl need not try to educate the world.
Smyrls' job is to help educate FBC JAX members. This should be done in house.
The only reason for Smyrl to blog on this subject must come from Brunson. Brunson must be trying to distance himself from the Catholic Church. After all he did say that he would JOIN HANDS WITH ALL CHURCHES IN JACKSONVILLE. Catholics included! He has been catching a lot of heat from that statement. Brunson must have asked Maurilio what he should do about the Catholic problem. Isn't Maurilio the Chief Information Officer/CHANGE AGENT? I can imagine Maurilio saying LET SMYRL TEACH A SERIES ON THE CATHOLICS that will keep the bloggers off our backs. Maurilio is big on teaching subjects in series. I could be wrong! I am probably wrong!
No, Smyrl must have said I WILL TEACH A SERIES ON THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. I WILL!
Hey Mr. Watchdog, am I to assume that you don't agree with Jim Smyrl? That practicing Roman Catholics are truly your brothers in Christ as much as any Baptist? Since you were a member of FBC you must have knowingly supported missionary programs to RC countries. You must have been aware that most of all new SBC churches in Florida were in Catholic communities (Latino and Hatian immigrant groups). So obviously you must believe that the RC church is not truly Christian! Right? Perhaps Jim's use of the term "cult" is a bad choice of word to use. Can you offer a better one? How about "false religion"? What about Mormons (who BTW are remarkably similar to Catholics)? Are they just another Christian denomination? Or are they a false religion too? Are all those millions of ex-catholics who are now worshipping in evangelical churches wrong? Do you believe that they should go back to bowing before graven images and offering up prayers to Mary and the "saints" as they were taught? Have you ever asked any of them? Do you at least agree with Jim Smyrl in principle, that catholics are ignorant of the gospel of truth and need to be evangelized? You are so quick to criticize Smyrl's articulation of this view, let's here your take on this issue!
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