I don't understand Jim Smyrl and FBC Jax.Why are they still infatuated with kicking the Catholics?
This past Wednesday Jim was back taking swings at the Catholics from the pulpit of FBC Jax, once again calling them a cult, equating them with Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons and other non-Christian religions, going so far as telling his congregation that if they are to witness to their Catholic friends they must be brave enough to tell their Catholic friends that what they've been living and believing is a lie.
I have refrained from saying much about what's going on at FBC Jax, I'm at a new church. But when I became aware of Smyrl once again slandering our Catholic friends as being a "cult" equal to the JW's and Mormons and Buddhists and Muslims, I will not stand by silently. I called out Smyrl last year when he did, and I'll do it again now. I believe his words from the pulpit of FBC Jax should have a light shone on them, so people know what is coming forth these days from FBC Jax.
Last fall Smyrl published a series of articles on the official FBC Jax blog - condemning the Catholic faith as a "cult". Jim even referred to a Catholic priest as a "cult leader" (UPDATE: this link takes you to Smyrl's article referring to the Catholic priest as a "cult leader") in an article published just prior to that. Mysteriously, just a few days after his articles went up they were taken down. I have made them available to readers here at this link.
But this past Wednesday Jim was back at it. Jim said he had received all sorts of emails from evangelicals "blasting" and "verbally assualting" him for his Catholic Cult series, about which he said "I love it, that just fires me up." - which may be true, but then why are not his articles posted on the FBC Jax blog for us all to read?
In this sermon Jim was telling the FBC Jax faithful that they need to do a better job witnessing to the lost, and Jim explained that their witnessing efforts must include confronting their Catholic friends that they are "living and believing a lie."
"Listen, if you're ever going to win somebody in Catholicism to Christ, you may have to make a friend of them, you may have to get to know them, you may have to spend time in their life, but there is going to come a point where you have to say 'What you have been living and believing is a lie.' And you don't say it on your own authority, you say it on the authority of the one who saved you and called you into the gospel ministry."
Sorry Jim - I've never been to seminary like you have, but as my grandpappy used to say, that is utter HOGWARSH with an "r". Our job as Christians is to not go up to Catholics and tell them that they are living and believing a lie. Our job is to live our lives as an example before them, to love them, and to speak a positive word for Christ. Aren't we to let the Holy Spirit convict people of the truth? We can share them the truth of the gospel, and our testimony, and let the Holy Spirit do the rest. Yes, we can trust the Holy Spirit to do the convicting.
Its so disheartening to hear Smyrl say these things. Maybe Brunson is cheering him on, I don't know. But what I do know is that FBC Jax has never been about running down Catholics in Jacksonville. The few times that Vines ever referred directly to Catholicism it was "our Catholic friends" - pointing out that yes we do have doctrinal differences, but we do have docrintal similarities. And Vines was quick to point out that we have plenty of social issues - like the sanctity of human life - where we have agreement and on which we can partner. As Vines would say: there are lost and saved Catholics, just as there are lost and saved Baptists.
Guys like Smyrl are dangerous and divisive to the Southern Baptist Convention. He wants to highlight doctrinal differences between Christians as much as possible, and if there are those who disagree with HIM, he calls for separation. In January Smyrl wrote a blog article calling out Lifeway and their leader for selling "The Shack". According to Jim, he believes Baptists should separate from Lifeway if they can't sell only those books that Jim believes meet a certain doctrinal threshold - his threshold.
To make it even worse, Wednesday night Smyrl lumped the Catholics in a long list of groups that FBC Jax members need to be witnessing to. Jim says:
"And Catholics and Muslims and Hindus, and Budhists and Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesse can come to Jesus Christ and be saved."
That is true, but again Jim chooses to lump the Catholics in with non-Christian religions.
Come on, Jim. Let's drop the name calling, and let's spread the gospel to everyone.
114 comments:
And the video of Jim's sermon 5/20 is available for viewing on the 316 archives at the FBC Jax website.
Sorry WD, Smyrl is correct on this one. Catholocism is equivalent to JW, Mormons and the like because they add works and more importantly reverence to Mary as a means of salvation. I don't know if you have family ties with Catholics or what, but you should examine what they truly practice and believe. They have come up with another way to God. And the Scriptures say that anyone who does that is a thief and a liar. And I beleive the Scriptures. We must tell those practicing Catholics the truth and pray that they go through Jesus Christ ALONE for salvation John 14:6.
Is FBCJ bent on alienating everyone! They are a "natural" disaster. I have never seen a group more divisive than they. FBCJ doesn't need to blame bad publicity or harm to their reputation on a blog., or indeed on anyone else. They do more harm to themselves than anything anyone could say about them. They tear down their own church, all by themselves, with their own attitudes toward others. And their mean spiritedness. Why would anyone stay there? Much less give them money? Even if you disagree with someone on doctrines you try to be kind to them. You don't alienate them.
This is a problem in other mega's too. It is just another way to rally the troops: A common enemy. Us vs. them.
About 6 years ago in another mega, one youth worker led a teen workshop on idolatry at the church camp. After the workshop, the worker and a group of teens went on a hike in the woods and came upon a statue of Mary in the middle of nowhere. Well, at the instigation of the youth worker, they took rocks and smashed the Mary statue..after all, it was an idol. And of course, they bragged about doing it when they got back. And the word spread.
But they had hiked past the church camp boundary onto private property and smashed the land owner's Mary Statue he had placed in HIS woods.
The owner of the land and statue happened to know one of the writers at the daily newspaper and he wrote a column about it. And of course, they fired the youth worker and pretended they were outraged at his behavior.
Matt
What's your point Matt?
Matt,
Do you think Martin Luther used the us vs them argument too?
Why do you think that following a Pope and worshiping the a statute of a woman is OK? What would you say to a Jesuit priest?
WD,
Does this have anything to do with your in-laws belonging to the Church of Rome?
Hi Matt,
How do you justify the existence of the Catholic Church with it Pope at its head?
Do you believe mary can intercede?
As usual, you probably won't answer but give a unrelated story.
11:52 - my inlaws aren't Catholic if that's what you're asking. Nice try though.
I'm not Matt, but I'll take a stab at his 8:50 entry that somebody asked "whats your point?" about:
The point is that even though the theology is correct that putting all these other saints, etc in front of God is WRONG you have no right to destroy another man's property just because he believes differently then you.
Are the posters at 11:49 & 11:56 commenting on Matt's post advocating destruction of anything that goes against their theology?
Why don't we all just move to Bosnia and start the ethnic cleansing since we believe differently then others
http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2009-05-23/story/duval_sheriffs_state_attorney_offices_respond_to_blogger_lawsuit_0
new article
Wiki > Jacksonville, Florida.
Jacksonville is the most populous city in Florida, and the twelfth most populous city in the United States. As of the census[2] estimates of 2006, there were 799,875 people, 315,796 households, and 199,037 families residing in the city.[41] However, it is perhaps misleading to compare Jacksonville's population to other major cities. As a result of the 1968 consolidation of Jacksonville and Duval County, most of the suburban communities of Jacksonville were absorbed within the city limits of Jacksonville proper. It may be a more accurate comparison to compare the metropolitan area of Jacksonville to the Metropolitan area of other cities.
According to the 2007 American Community Survey, the city's population was 63.7% White (58.7% non-Hispanic-White alone), 31.0% Black or African American, 0.8% American Indian and Alaska Native, 4.0% Asian, 0.2% Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander, 2.2% from some other race and 1.7% from two or more races. 5.9% of the total population were Hispanic or Latino of any race.[42] The largest ancestries are German (9.6%), Irish (9.0%), English (8.5%), Italian (3.5%), and French (2.2%).[43]
In 2000, the median income for a household in the city was $40,316, and the median income for a family was $47,243. Males had a median income of $32,547 versus $25,886 for females. The per capita income for the city was $20,337. About 9.4% of families and 12.2% of the population were below the poverty line, including 16.7% of those under age 18 and 12.0% of those age 65 or over.
Religion
Jacksonville has a diverse religious population. The city is estimated to contain 265,158 Evangelical Protestants and 89,649 Mainline Protestants who attend a total of 794 churches. Several of these are megachurches, including First Baptist Church downtown and Christ's Church (formerly Mandarin Christian Church) on Greenland Road. There are 162,329 Roman Catholics who attend 51 Catholic churches within the Roman Catholic Diocese of St. Augustine.[45] Since 1906, the city's Unitarian Universalists have worshipped at the Unitarian Universalist Church of Jacksonville [46] The Episcopal Diocese of Florida has its see in St. John's Cathedral, the current building dating from 1906. There is a good representation of various Lutheran Synods, as well. The greater metropolitan area also has a Jewish population of 14,000, mostly residing in the neighborhood of Mandarin. There are two Reform, four Conservative, and four Orthodox synagogues, three of them Chabad-affiliated,[47]. There are over 3,000 members of various Eastern Orthodox Church jurisdictions in eight parishes or missions, and 18,050 of other religious affiliations. Within the city limits there are also seven Mormon church buildings housing twelve congregations of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints,[48] a population of Muslims centered on the Islamic Center of Northeast Florida,[49], a Bahá'í center,[50] and New Age and Neopagan communities.[51]
Thanks for the stats, Thy Peace.
And it should be mentioned there are several prominent Catholic schools to which members of FBC Jax send their kids - how stupid are they to be sending their kids to a school run by cult leaders?
Is sending your kids to a Catholic school equivilent to sending them to a school of JW's or Mormons? Or Budhists? Apparently, to Smyrl.
And about the FBC Jax school - is it open to boys and girls who attend Catholic church? Will Jim Smyrl be teaching them that their parents are "living and believing a lie?"
Blog post by Smyrl on the FBC Jax official blog site:
Here is an interesting church and society matter in which I would like to open the door of discussion. Whenever I speak or write on subjects contrary to Catholicism, I receive massive contradictions from the evangelical community. Whenever I speak or write on subjects contrary to Pentecostalism, I get almost no negative input but floods of positive responses.
Could it be that the evangelical church as migrated so close to the formalism and institutionalization of the Catholic church that an indictment against Catholicism serves as a convicting probe in the heart of evangelicals?
Could it be that we have migrated so far away from a healthy understanding of the Spirit’s work that we readily applaud public rebukes of ministries in which the Holy Spirit is misrepresented with irrational emotionalism because we misrepresent the ministry of the Holy Spirit with complacent stoicism?
I can't believe the answer is not obvious to Jim. I don't think Jim Smyrl has ever referred to Pentecostals as a "cult". Wouldn't that account for the difference in outrage between his comments on Catholicism and Pentecostals? Its one thing to point out areas of disagreements with the pentecostals such as speaking in tongues and the filling of the Holy Spirit, which evangelical preachers will do from time to time. But its another thing to just emphaticaly dismiss the Catholics as a "cult".
The point is, Jim, there is not universal agreement that the Catholics are a "cult". So why try to ram that down the throat of the congregants? And why try to tell your congregants to say to Catholics "you're living and believing a lie"? Is that how we are to witness to people? Get to that point of the relationship where we can hit them with the big one: "Hey buddy, you're lost and going to hell because you're living and believing a lie. You didn't know that? Well you know it now. Pray this prayer, and agree with my doctrines, or you're lost and going to hell while you live your lie as a Catholic."
Thanks to Anon 8:01AM.
Jacksonville News > Duval Sheriff's, State Attorney offices respond to blogger lawsuit
It's in the case of a man who anonymously criticized First Baptist.
BY JEFF BRUMLEY
Give it up WD you are wrong on this one. Explain how Catholics can believe that you must confess to a man in a box, pray to Mary among other things; Then still have no assurance as to whether you are saved or not? Explain! And if FBC members or anyone else is sending their children to a Catholic school etc and they believe in the Catholic doctrine, they are wrong too. Because Catholicism teaches that there is some other way to God than what the Bible teaches John 14:6. No Mary, no chants, no rosary beads, no confessing to a priest (Jesus is our high priest). The priest is in need of a savior himself, just as Mary was. She understood that. Why can't the Catholics get it? Catholicism is a cult just as Jehovah's witnesses, Mormons, and any other group who decides that there is some other way to salvation or either they attach something else to salvation. The precious blood of Jesus Christ paid the price for the sin of the world by itself. The veil of the temple was split when Christ died on the cross giving us direct access to the Father through Jesus. Jesus Christ is the only mediator between God and man and not father whomever.
This is not an attack on anyone personally, it's an attack on the false teachings and beliefs of the Catholics; which will doom people to hell if it is believed.
Again, WD do you have family ties with the Catholics?
Anon - you're missing the point. My main point is not in defending the Catholic doctrines. I'm well aware of the differences, vast differences between Catholic doctrine and Baptists.
The main point is that one does not have to engage in calling Catholics a "cult" and even referring to priests as "cult leaders" to make the distinctions, or to compel people to witness to Catholics. It hurts FBC Jax's mission in reaching the city for Christ by this kind of name calling.
There are many people who do NOT attend Catholic church and don't understand any of their doctrines, but have family ties to those that are Catholics. And for Smyrl to pop off that Catholicism is a cult will offend not only Catholics, but also those who only loosely associate with the name "Catholic".
So why do it? Why write on the official FBC Jax blog site that they are a cult? Why preach it from the pulpit? Why did Jerry Vines never do this? Why does Mac Brunson not do this? Why did Homer Lindsay, Jr. never do this?
I believe, in my opinion, Jim is trying to be provocative, to be "cutting edge". And it is hurting his own church's ability to reach the lost.
And no, I have no close family ties to Catholics. Like most people I have relatives on both sides of my family who are Catholics - decent people and definitely not cult members. I'm sure if they would hear Smyrl's words they would be convinced that Smyrl is the cult leader and FBC Jax is the cult.
May 23, 2009 9:13 AM - have you ever talked with a true Catholic? They do trust in Jesus for their salvation through his death, burial and bodily resurrection. They do believe the Bible is the inerrant infallible word of God. Many BAPTISTS don't believe the above things. Also some Baptists believe in works salvation, even though they don't say it. Some even believe you must read the KJV, or you must "walk an aisle" or you must "say a prayer" or you must be baptized by immersion, or you must tithe, or you must not dance, or not chew, or have Christmas trees, or you have to wear a suit and ladies wear a dress to church. Give Baptists and guys like Smyrl another 1400 years like the Catholic church has been around and see what kinds of crap they believe. True Catholicism (not the Mary as co-redemptrix group)have a Pope, but so does Smyrl and Mac want to act as a Pope. True Catholics also minister to orphans and widows in their distress. No other group is actually going and being Christ to the world like catholic members. (Not just talking about the institution itself.) These folks love Jesus and trust him for their salvation. They just believe that the Bible requires some evidence of salvation, they call sacraments and you call works.
Baptists believe you walk an aisle and fill out a card and you are once saved always saved. Regardless of your fruit. (Unless you are a blogger that calls for transparency...)
Both sets of beliefs have holes and issues. Both think the other group needs to get right with God.
Both may be wrong...
But not JIMMY SMYRL. He is always rightttttuuuuuhhhhhh! That is the point. Why doesn't Jim call out Sean Hannity and Bill Bennett and Alan Keyes? These are all devout Catholic leaders. But we have Bill Clinton and Al Gore and Jimmy Carter as Southern Baptists. Sheesh. Smyrl sounds like a pathetic idiot whose statments and beliefs cannot stand up to public scrutiny. How gullible and ignorant are the sheep down there that listen to his BS.
May 23, 2009 9:13 AM - I bet you have some in-laws who are Baptist! Whatever.
WD it's not about Baptist' Pentecostals etc. It's about (Christians) followers of Jesus Christ and not a denomination. While 'cult' maybe in some opinions a harsh word, it's true. What they teach is false and they are led by a priest (man). Christian's lives are or should be governed by the Holy Word of God (Bible) ALONE. Not any additions to it. Catholicism, JW, Mormons, budhist, etc are another religion.; they are another gospel.
It didn't sound too good when Jesus called out the Pharisees did it? They were called vipers, snakes, whited walled tombs-dead men bones looking good or the outside and rotten within. Don't sound too good huh? I agree that if you want to reach those who don't know the way the truth and the life one should season their speech. But sometimes seasoned speech is harsh. You know, like spicy foods; it maybe hot or bold but it sure is good. So is the Word of God, at times it can be bold and powerful, but it sure is good for you. It's the truth and the truth can be offensive. Just ask Jesus.
We must tell others the truth, because we would regret not doing so if something were to happen to them and we never presented them with the truth. I don't think that you would want that on your conscience. You seem to be a really nice person.
I mean no offense to you or anyone. But we absolutely must tell the truth, time is running out. Christ will soon return.
No further comments
May 23, 2009 9:13 AM - I bet you have some in-laws who are Baptist! Whatever.
Sorry, no I don't. But I do have some family members who are Christians and Jehovahs Witnesses and Pentecostals
Have a wonderful day
The point is that even though the theology is correct that putting all these other saints, etc in front of God is WRONG you have no right to destroy another man's property just because he believes differently then you.
Are the posters at 11:49 & 11:56 commenting on Matt's post advocating destruction of anything that goes against their theology?
Why don't we all just move to Bosnia and start the ethnic cleansing since we believe differently then others
May 23, 2009 6:53 AM
Thanks, that is quite correct. I have to wonder why some think that allowing Catholics to live peacefully around us means that we AFFIRM their wrong doctrine. Nothing could be further from the truth.
I see no reason to insult them, point fingers at them or even rail against them from the pulpit. It is a waste of time. No one can know the counterfiet UNLESS they know the TRUE ONE first.
If more pastors taught the FULL TRUE gospel instead of their pet doctrines, we would all be better off and more folks would recognize the counterfiet and could respond in love with differences. Love that might actually win some hearts to hear the truth.
Matt
But, I tell you that before I would rail against Catholics as not saved, I would make sure I was saved, myself. Knowing some Correct docttrine does not save us.
"Baptists believe you walk an aisle and fill out a card and you are once saved always saved. Regardless of your fruit. (Unless you are a blogger that calls for transparency...)"
Yes, and we even have infant baptism. :o)
The fastest growing age group being baptized in the SBC are 5 year olds.
To expound on this further, the SBC is going the way of Rome and has been for a long time. Where we once stood for the Holy Priesthood, now we are quite hierarchical. We have traded cooperation for dictatorships in our entities. Like little popes.
Where we once stood for scripture alone we now have creeds (BFM) that we measure committment to Christ against from others. Even the Great Commission resurgence has a new creed attached to it.
Where the pastor was once just one of the crowd who happened to preach, now he is the 'anointed priest' who cannot be questioned. this is also a form of idolatry.
We even have a group of Baptists (Patterson and his BI folks) who are advocating closed communion and SBC church only baptism.
We have another group of Baptists (Mohler, etc) who are advocating ESS and a Presbyterian form of church structure which is directly descended from the Catholic church and was never replaced by the Reformation.
We are way too much like the Catholics to dare critisize them.
"Baptists believe you walk an aisle and fill out a card and you are once saved always saved. Regardless of your fruit."
We don't believe that. Like Rev. Brunson says, walking down an aisle and betting baptized won't save you.
The Baptist Faith and Message says:
"Salvation involves the redemption of the whole man, and is offered freely to all who accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour, who by His own blood obtained eternal redemption for the believer. In its broadest sense salvation includes regeneration, justification, sanctification, and glorification. There is no salvation apart from personal faith in Jesus Christ as Lord.
A. Regeneration, or the new birth, is a work of God's grace whereby believers become new creatures in Christ Jesus. It is a change of heart wrought by the Holy Spirit through conviction of sin, to which the sinner responds in repentance toward God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Repentance and faith are inseparable experiences of grace.
Repentance is a genuine turning from sin toward God. Faith is the acceptance of Jesus Christ and commitment of the entire personality to Him as Lord and Saviour.
B. Justification is God's gracious and full acquittal upon principles of His righteousness of all sinners who repent and believe in Christ. Justification brings the believer unto a relationship of peace and favor with God.
C. Sanctification is the experience, beginning in regeneration, by which the believer is set apart to God's purposes, and is enabled to progress toward moral and spiritual maturity through the presence and power of the Holy Spirit dwelling in him. Growth in grace should continue throughout the regenerate person's life.
D. Glorification is the culmination of salvation and is the final blessed and abiding state of the redeemed. "
Nothing about walking an aisle.
Do you think Martin Luther used the us vs them argument too?
Why do you think that following a Pope and worshiping the a statute of a woman is OK? What would you say to a Jesuit priest?
May 22, 2009 11:49 PM
I would do some serious study of History of Martin Luther and the Reformation before I made such a statement.
Luther wanted to take the book of James out of the Word because he thought it taught works salvation. He hated the Jews, wrote that they should be destroyed (like the Catholic church did) and railed against them. He taught that women were only good for bearing children and he not once adocated to dismiss the Catholic church structure. He just wanted a different kind of Pope that did not sell indulgences.
His focus was on the selling of indulgences so the Pope could pay for St Peter's in Rome. He saw this as works salvation. A selling of salvation. He was right. But he was very wrong on many other things, too.
He once wrote that he dreamed of a church of TRUE believers along side the mandatory state church that he was then a member. Why he was not confident enough to plant such a church as the Ana Baptists did in spite of constant persecution and even death, shows his allegiance to church/state mentality.
Luther still practiced and believed in infant baptism, sacraments, church/state magistrate and even transubstantiation to a degree.
He represents very little of what historic baptists believed and died for.
He was not as us vs. them as you think. He is more Catholic than you think. But there is a lot of rewritten history about him from many quarters today to make him fit a mold that did not exist back then.
If you want to see a true model of us vs them, study the history of the Ana Baptist movement. they were so busy fleeing persecution, they left little writings behind. No one would dare publish them for the most part. Death, even from the hands of the Reformers, came to anyone who dared publish them.
Nothing about walking an aisle.
May 23, 2009 1:11 PM
Ironic you quote the BFM instead of scripture. But that is becoming the Baptist (just like the Catholics who quote a creed) way.
If there is nothing about walking an aisle, then why do so many churches do that and pronounce that person saved?
We even have folks saying that Gilyard was saved those 20 years he was raping women while hiding behind Jesus as cover. On what do they base that on? On what did Vines and Patterson base his salvation on during that time they were supporting him knowing there were many accusations?
Even Satan knows correct doctrine. So, what is your point?
"If there is nothing about walking an aisle, then why do so many churches do that and pronounce that person saved?"
I don't know. My point is the SBC doesn't believe that. An alter call is only a tool.
You do make a valid point and false professions. That's something I'm concerned about too.
EDIT:
That should be "valid point about false professions"
Woa now, ever read the Council of Trent? It was written after the Reformation ocurred. Ever read Henry Hudson's historical documentation on the Roman Catholic church? As much as there has been cricitism of FBC Jax, I am afraid ther has been a shift toward swallowing a camel. Have you been in the realm of Vactican City and then go look at the streets of Brazil and South America and the pervasive poverty. I suggest you watch Romero sometime.
WD,
No one denies that Catholics are decent people. What you don't answer is will they be saved?
Many people over the years have been offended by the Gospel but sugar coating the message won't always work. Are you saying the truth should be suborned because it may offend?
The mistake that Baptists typically make on this issue is ofte tied into Landmarkism. I never could find any congregation that existed outside of the orthodox faiths of Eastern or Western European prior to the 11th century. Ironically, most of the heresies in the Roman orthodox churches began to develop to where they were institutionalized around that time along with the idea of "sprinkling." I can't tell you how many times I have heard that Roman Catholicism developed in early 300 AD along with the Council of Nicea. Roman Catholicism began to develop about 100 years later with the bisops in Rome trying to assert themselves over Constananople's bishop. If Baptist have a linear heritage it is either through Eastern Orthodoxy or Nazarene congregations.
Thy Peace,
What does displaying information about the religious make up of Jacksonville have anything to do with this discussion?
You are the master of the superfluous.
Caholicism's teachings are devil-breathed from the pits of hell. May The LORD Jesus Christ ever use His true Holy Spirit-taught Pastors to teach and warn those in Catholicism of hell's eternally-burning flames for rejecting the REAL LORD Jesus Christ while preferring the false Jesus of Catholicism.
Living Hope In Jesus
www.livinghopeinjesus.com
I have been a Christian for many many years. I have known good Baptist and bad Baptist. I have known good Catholics and bad Catholics. I have known good Jews, Pentacostals, etc. What is disturbing is that there is a mindset that we have to tell someone who has been raised in their religion that they believe a lie. What if another person holding to their religious beliefs which were different from yours were to tell you or I that we believed a lie. I suppose that could happen but as a Christian I have never heard that from anyone. As a member of the armed forces I really didn't ask if the man in my foxhole was a Catholic, Baptist, Methodist, whatever. I would only hope that he knew how to fire his weapon.
I believe we should quit arguing that our religion is the best and only one. That just drives us farther away from winning anyone to Jesus Christ. We are to lead by example and let them witness Jesus in us. The real seekers will see that in us readily enough and will ask you about it if they are ready to change or see the Light. I never said anything to a co-worker for nine years who was not a Christain. He and his entire family accepted the Lord as their Savior just by asking me a few questions as to what it means to be a Christian. I didn't even mention their religion as there was no need and I hadn't plan to either. Another time a young man who was sitting in a hospital waiting room asked me a simple question about eternal life. I had no Bible with me only a Open Windows Magazine which I had finished. He accepted the Lord right there in that room. This has happened over and over again in my life and I never asked anyone what was their religion.
Some people are just hung up on their religion. Jesus was and is the Greatest Teacher the world has ever known. All he did was preach the Word and allow people that wanted to know the truth find it. If anyone seeks the truth they will find it with or without someone beating them over the head and criticizing their beliefs or upbringing. Why does anyone wonder why there are so many different denominations? People move on because they are tired of being told they are wrong.
I am very strong on my BIBLE beliefs and have studied verse by verse for many years. It has never been necessary for a "man" or any "preacher" to EXPLAIN doctrine to me. This is why WE ARE TO STUDY the Bible for ourselves. When we hear someting in ANY religion that is false WE will know it.
Having said that, I will say I recognize things contrary to the Bible in many "religions". So the Bible is my authority.....not man or religion or "movement".
I believe there are saved and lost Catholics, as well as saved and lost Baptist. I have a Catholic friend that I have discussed JESUS with and find that this person believes as I do. This person prays to Jesus, in His name. I have never heard this person mention anything about Mary, sacraments, or what I must do as a Baptist to be in the family of God. Recently, after, some serious health issues arose, this person prayed for me and my family on the phone, IN THE NAME OF JESUS. I have had Baptist from my church in the recent past come to my home to "straighten" me out about some things in a very judgemental, unkind, attitude, as I had some questions about the pastoral authority. It was a little strange. The situation was a bit reversed. The Catholic was ministering to my need with prayer, and never mentioned the Pope or any one but Jesus. And the Baptist, was letting me have it, because I didn't give authority to a man (preacher).
Anon 3:26 - No, I don't think all Catholics are cult members. Some are saved. I know Catholics who believe in Jesus for their salvation, pray to Jesus and not Mary, who don't think they're drinking the literal blood of Jesus (one of Smyrl's examples he gives as to why they are a cult), and that don't go to confession to confess their sins to a priest but do that by praying to Jesus.
So I won't call them a cult. I won't call priests "cult leaders" or the Catholics cult members. Not in my private conversations with people, not to people who are Catholic, and certainly not from the pulpit of FBC Jacksonville live streaming and archived on the Internet would I ever say such a thing. That is sensationalism, that is being provocative, that is trying to draw attention to one's very extreme view of casting the entire church and all of its members as nuts needing the FBC Jax members to go and rescue them all from the cult of Catholicism. But if I were a Catholic, the LAST person I would listen to about anything regarding my faith would be someone who listened and agreed with Jim Smyrl. I would probably send them away like I would the JW's.
And Jim's words and his tone by which he delivers them, makes him sound like the cult leader, not the Catholic priests.
But hey...I do understand your point of view - the Catholic church is a cult and we need to proclaim that to save the Catholics from damnation. I've heard that for years and years. I just never thought I'd hear it emanating from the pulpit of FBC Jacksonville.
Good job Smyrl!
Anon 4:25
So you are saying this one Catholic friend justifies the use of rosary beads, statutes of mary and the wearing of a crucifix?
Are you saying that practicing catholics are saved because of nuns, priests and the pope?
WD,
Are you agreeing with Smyrl but don't like the way he presents it?
We all know of people who don't follow the catholic church but call themselves catholics. Unfortunately that's a tiny minority.
Someday your daughter may introduce you to the man she wants to marry.
What would you tell her if he is a practicing catholic. I imagine you would say that would never happen but what if.....?
Dog,
Have you read the Voice of the Martyrs magazine. Do you have a problem with them being thought to be sensationalist and provocative in bringing the Word to the muslims and communist worlds?
Yes, Smyrl may not be PC but what he says is true. Do you want to save souls or be liked by everyone?
Can someone explain to me, what Jesus meant in Romans 10:14-17? We must have one who is sent by God to present the Gospel message in the hope that people will hear the truth. But, one must tell the truth to whomever whether they accept it or reject it.
To the military person, it would be good if you were concerned about the souls of all that you may encounter. We will all die someday (unless you are a believer and you are ruptured), and what will matter in the end is if whether you knew Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. Not as a good Man ect. But as Lord and Savior. If you love others as yourselves you will be compelled to speak the truth to them and it doesn't matter what denomination they are or what religion they may belong to. You can say what you want, but in the end if you do not know JESUS CHRIST AND MORE IMPORTANTLY IF JESUS CHRIST DOESN'T KNOW YOU, you are doomed. I speak the truth in love. Love tells the truth and is willing to suffer whatever the consequences may be.
Here's a good hypothetical question to ask anyone who is not a Christian or who may think that they are: If you died today and stood before Jesus and He were to ask you why should He let you into heaven?" Just listen to the answers you may hear. "I do good works. I go to church. I'm a Baptist, a Christian, a Buddhist, a Mormon, I'm an Atheist and on and on. None of which are the correct answers. We have nothing to do with our salvation if we are saved. Remember that. If we did, why in the world would Jesus have had to die on the cross for our sin? The truth is the truth. The truth divides, it hurts, it cuts and it offends. But, to those who adhere to it; it convicts, it exhorts, it sets free, it corrects etc. Read 2 Timothy 3:16. While there may be some Catholics who aren't practicing the doctrines and who truly trust ONLY in Jesus for salvation, they WILL NOT remain in those teachings if they seek truth. If you want to know truth, God will show you truth. He will give you wisdom if you ask (James 1:5).
But hey...I do understand your point of view - the Catholic church is a cult and we need to proclaim that to save the Catholics from damnation. I've heard that for years and years. I just never thought I'd hear it emanating from the pulpit of FBC Jacksonville.
WD - if you understand the point of view of anonymous 3:26p in saying that the Catholic church is a cult...then why can't you understand that if the Catholic church is a cult, that makes their leader a "cult leader". The priest is the leader and so he is the cult leader. And it does not make any difference who says the truth, if it is truly the truth AND in this case the statement is very trute.
"We will all die someday (unless you are a believer and you are ruptured)"
Slightly OT- What is it about people at FBC being almost exclusively pre-trib pre-mil? Is it just because of the pastor?
I go there and I'm amillennial.
Here's the clip of one who explains
CatholicismScripture Referenced:
1 Corinthians 10:16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?
Matthew 26:26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples,and said, Take, eat; this is my body.
27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
The mistake that Baptists typically make on this issue is ofte tied into Landmarkism. I never could find any congregation that existed outside of the orthodox faiths of Eastern or Western European prior to the 11th century. Ironically, most of the heresies in the Roman orthodox churches began to develop to where they were institutionalized around that time along with the idea of "sprinkling." I can't tell you how many times I have heard that Roman Catholicism developed in early 300 AD along with the Council of Nicea. Roman Catholicism began to develop about 100 years later with the bisops in Rome trying to assert themselves over Constananople's bishop. If Baptist have a linear heritage it is either through Eastern Orthodoxy or Nazarene congregations.
May 23, 2009 3:28 PM
Forget the word 'baptist' and you will see more clearly. There has always been a faithful remnant going against the worldly hierarchal religion. They were considered heretics by the religious leaders of the day, though.
The Donatists come to mind. Or the Waldensians of the 12th Century.
Remember what Christ said about the church: The gates of Hades will not prevail against it.
The Catholic Church is a direct descendent of Constantine who legalized Christianity and aligned it to the pagan temples. Where do you think we get 'pulpits', Ex Cathera, icons, etc. Many of these things came directly from pagan worship.
BTW: The Reformation was not a repudiation of the Catholic church at first. Many miss that. It was to REFORM the Catholic church. But the Reformers were also political unlike the Ana Baptists. The reformers had no intention of doing away with the state church. They just wanted it 'reformed'.
"But hey...I do understand your point of view - the Catholic church is a cult and we need to proclaim that to save the Catholics from damnation."
What is a cult? Define that correctly then tell me how FBC Jax is not a cult.
Matthew 7
1Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
6Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
7Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
8For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
9Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?
10Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?
11If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?
12Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
13Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
28And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:
29For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.
Basic Catholic Beliefs and Practices:
http://www.ancient-future.net/basics.html
Here is what they believe about Jesus
Jesus Christ: God and Man
Catholics believe Jesus is fully God and fully Man, with a human will and a divine will. He is the King of Cosmos, the Word of God, and the awaited Messiah of Israel. He was born of a Virgin, Mary, suffered, was crucified, truly died, and rose again bodily, all for our sins. He ascended into heaven and is still alive interceding on our behalf before the Father. He will come again to judge the living and the dead. Jesus was a great Teacher, and His Teachings are the very Teachings of God.
How about, "Be an anything, but be a born-again one." When the Lord Jesus comes into a person's life at the time that person is born-again, won't things inconsistent with Him and life in Him begin to get straightened out? How could any saved person stay remain as a member of anything inconsistent with his Savior?
Have any of you been to a Catholic Mass?
I am a saved Baptist and married to a wonderful Catholic . Never, have I questioned any of their teachings. No one worships idols - they pray to Mary out of respect as Christ mother and God's chosen virgin for his birth. It is no worse than us Baptist praying at an alter or getting on our knees with someone else to pray. Most Catholics have more a personal relationship with Christ than many Baptist I know.
I can only wish I could be 1/2 of the person this Catholic I am married to is!
I have been to some very spiritual Catholic Masses and I have NO resentment whatsoever to any professing Catholic.
With the way most of the Baptist ministers, deacons and elders are heading, with this holier than thou cult messages now being echoed around the US, I would not be surprised to see thousands seek a more personal relationship vs. the INSTITUTIONAL demanded and mandated following.
So all of you who think Catholics are lost, think again, - they are much closer spiritually to Christ than 99.9% of the Baptist!
Get out of your shell and go to a Mass, you may be surprised at what you really can learn!
Anon 5:35 - I'll try again.
Jim Smyrl is wrong to call the Catholics a "cult" in the same way that Mormons or JW's are a cult (or to list Catholics in a list with Budhists and Hindus and Mormons and JWs). But I've heard people like Smyrl try to push that view on people before. Baptists have wide differences with Catholics - that's why I'm a Baptist and not a Catholic - but I don't in any way view them as a "cult" or their priests as "cult leaders", and it sickens me to hear Smyrl popping off as though he is the expert on what is a cult and what is not.
Furthermore, even if Jim Smyrl learned some "grid" at Southeastern that he uses to measure who is and is not a cult, it does not help the cause of Christ for him to be pushing his views of who is a cult to his church members from his pulpit, and he harms the cause of Christ when he tells people that they should muster the courage to tell their Catholic friends they are living and believing a lie. That is a poor technique to win anyone to Christ, totally unnecessary, and counter-productive. I believe Jerry Vines would agree with this, as he never publicly called the Catholics a "cult", and never encouraged his church members to do that.
But look who Jim's mentor is....and maybe that helps explain what is coming forth from the pulpit downtown.
Go get 'em Jim!
Can you next do a series on "Jewish Cults" Jim? Then FBC Jax can hold another "Time to Stand With Israel" event and confront the Jews of the "lie" that they've been living and believing.
went to a meeting yes ago with the late dr walter martin . he was asked itf catholocism was a cuLt. He wouldnt label it AS such. WHO IS SMYL AND WHAT MAKES HIMAN AUTHORITY ON ANYTHING. STRAW MEN ARE EASYT TO BURN AND BUILD.
anon 9:37
And in what faith did you raise your children?
Were you married in a catholic church?
Have you ever heard of unequally yoked?
Dog,
Again, are you saying he is correct and this is all about his technique.
Thanks again for answering my other question - not. I guess they may cause you to think.
anon 10:08
and what did Dr Martin say it was?
Did he encourage you to promote the catholic church?
Anyone ever notice that the rosary beads are very similar to those beads used by muslims?
Anon 10:14 - as I said in my previous comment, no, I do not agree with Smyrl. The Catholics are not a cult, in my opinion. And there is no where near unanimous consent amongst evangelicals or southern baptists that the Catholic church meets the definition of "cult".
On the other hand, I believe it safe to say there IS near unanimous consent amongst evangelicals that JWs and Mormons are cults. And we all agree that Budhists and Hindus and Muslims are not even Christian - but Smyrl lumps the Catholics with all of these. That's wrong, and that's harmful to the cause of Christ.
And there is no where near unanimous consent amongst evangelicals or southern baptists that the Catholic church meets the definition of "cult".
How did you discern that opinion?
Did Thy Peace give you some statistics again?
anon 10:10 PM You ask; anon 9:37 actually ( Catholic lover)
Q.And in what faith did you raise your children?
Christian - NEVER has been an issue as we believe the man leads the family and is head of the household - but mostly Baptist due to the intense Biblical teachings....
Were you married in a catholic church? No / Simple wedding with family and "Christian minister" - You see, we needed no Institutions approval - just Christ!
Neither the Priest NOR the Baptist Minister objected at all after speaking with both of us. Otherwise we would have gone in other directions. We went through some basic Catholic and Baptist counsel to understand each others basic beliefs.
Have you ever heard of unequally yoked? Have you ever heard - so what! Ours and many other work. We seek Christ direction NOT an Institutional Organization. We can think for ourselves are not weak spirtually.
We are extremely happy and very much in love and have been for over 22 years....
Any more questions?
Not an opinion, wise guy.
Fact.
There is nowhere near unanimous opinion amongst Southern Baptists that the Catholics are a "cult".
Waldensians and other existed but there is not much mentioned of minority denominations mentioned anywhere between late 600 AD to around late 900's AD. Interestingly enough around 600 AD Roman Catholics began their punishments on those who would not join their ranks. Eastern Orthodoxy flourished as well. The only remnant in Eastern Europe could be of Nazarene Messianic Jews that held to Passover/Easter observances. There were Celtic assemblies as well that were free from legalized submission of the Roman popes but that changed in the late 600's when they were told to submit to the papalcy. Celtic expression of faiths existed quite sometime free from the dominion of Rome interestingly to note FYI Lydia, they were highly in favor of utilizing women in more often in aspects of leadership. I have not researched enough but it is documented.
The legalism here is astounding. It borders on a "cult mentality". In Jesus's day when he ate with sinners the religious leaders thought him a terrible person. Even when he spoke of eating corn on the Sabbath they ridiculed him. The woman at the well had a spiritual experience we all need to abide by..."he told me everything I had ever done". He also gave her living water. Lets quit being so judgemental as it serves no purpose.There will be no Catholics or Baptist nor any other denomination in heaven just those that love and accept the Lord Jesus Christ and His shed Blood on the Cross, as our Savior...plain and simple.
If I lay dying in the slums of Calcutta, or any other blighted area, I would have thought Mother Teresa or any other Catholic an angel sent from God to give me a glass of water to ease my suffering. I would not have refused her help or any one elses. How prideful and arrogant we all are when we THINK we don't need anything.
Mark 9:41: "For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward".
I am not a Catholic and am not related to anyone that is.
WD, where is your Scripture to support your views?
Married to a Catholic, where is yours?
These are not opinions, these are biblical facts WD. I think that you are so stuck on Smyrl and hating on him that you are blind and can't see truth right now.
Like Lydia said, forget the term Baptist then maybe you'll see. By the way, did you join another Baptist church?
Married to a Catholic, you are unequally yoked just as the Scriptures say. If you are truly saved you would not have married a Catholic, and the so called preacher would have pointed that out to you. Maybe your spouse isn't a practicing Catholic.
Somehow people think that a denomination will save you. But guess what, here's a newsflash "IT WON'T." There are many who say the name Jesus, just as Satan knows Scripture, but DO YOU REALLY KNOW HIM? IS YOUR LIFE GOVERNED BY THE HOLY WORD OF GOD OR YOUR OWN OPINIONS?
So you've been married for 22 years and are happy. It's only by the mercy and grace of God that you are. He wants you to realize truth and He will be patient in the hope that you will see truth. I am also married and am not happy, but have the JOY OF THE LORD, which is far better than happiness; happiness is based on circumstances. You see, when things are going all wrong (and you will have trials as it says in the Word- James 1), my joy will not be shaken. But your temporal happiness will. Who or what is your faith in. Do you, WD and others filter your lives through the WORD OF GOD? That's all that matters. ALWAYS CONSIDER WHAT YOU ARE TOLD OR WHAT YOU HEAR TO SEE IF THERE'S ANY TRUTH TO IT. EXAMINE YOURSELVES AND WHAT YOU HEAR BY THE SCRIPTURES AND NOT MERE OPINIONS OR FEELINGS. THOSE THINGS GETS YOU IN A LOT OF TROUBLE.
Good day
Anon May 24, 2009 7:48 AM
Married to a Catholic, you are unequally yoked just as the Scriptures say. If you are truly saved you would not have married a Catholic, and the so called preacher would have pointed that out to you. Maybe your spouse isn't a practicing Catholic.Wow, this is why, I, me personally, have such a hard time going to a Baptist church. I really only attend for my wife. Your holier than thou attitudes really show why the lost don't take believers in Christ seriously. It's people like you that divide.
I had some loving neighbors when I was growing up that the wife was Baptist and the husband was Jewish. The Baptist family refused to ever speak to them again, even though the husband converted to Baptist. The husband's family never cared, and were always over and were a fantastic group of people. The husband even became the head deacon of the church I attended in my youth.
Then, after 20 years of faithful service, some thought that his background, shall I say, him being Jewish in his youth, was a problem. This man, husband, father, was basically asked to leave the church he faithfully served for over 20 years.
That was the point when I decided that I, did not need to sit in a building, to be a believer in Christ. You sir or madam, have continued to show me that nothing has changed. While I like the little church that I do attend, I don't allow it to control me or my actions. Know many, many, many Catholics, I must say that I find a majority of them to hold a more Christian life than the Baptist I know.
Good day.
And if you don't agree with Pope Mac and the Priests...
You're excommunicated from
THE Church.
I don't see the difference between the Catholic and FBCJ here.
Anon 7:48. You need to quit throwing darts at the Watchdog. He is happily married while you claim you arn't. The husband (saved) sanctifies the wife even when she is unsaved according to the Word. And this when she is without religion. When you know the Lord you will always have trouble in this WORLD. But He has overcome the world which makes us free and should make us content and happy knowing that we inherit eternal life not just the 70 odd years we have on earth.There are disappointments in life it happens to us all.
You sound like you are really unhappy (your words) and for what reason I have no idea, but you need not concern yourself in telling others how to live until you get your own house in order.
All real Bible believers listen very carefully to what they are being told., and must make spiritual judgemental calls as to what is Biblically correct and what is not. We test the spirits and know when we are being lied to. Thats why the Bible is our teacher not some man, whether he is a preacher or lives next door. I believe Watchdog to be a discerner of the truth. Some people just can't handle the truth. It makes them mad as they want to continue in sin, darkness, and deception. They do not desire to deny self. Self is on the throne.
If you ever heard Dr Lindsay's sermon on people, things and circumstances you would have learned these three things are the reason people get unhappy and beside themselves. But, greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world. Mans days are few and full of trouble. Thats life. Once you get on the other side of 70 or 80 you will realize happiness comes from the Lord and Him alone.
I wish you happiness in your marriage and in the rest of your life. Also If your remarks about being married to a Catholic are directed to WD, I believe his wife was an active, devoted member of FBC and served faithfully there for many years. People in many denominations are saved. It is the acceptance of Jesus as our Savior that enables us to have eternal life. Plus or minus NOTHING!
I'm not Catholic nor Baptist, just call me Born Again.
May 23: 5:09 PM: "So you are saying Catholics are saved because of Nuns and Priests etc., etc.
Answer: No I am saying my Catholic friend IS saved and calls Jesus the Savior. I say there are saved people in many denominations. It is called the "Family of God". Not just the Baptist family of God. Please do not put words in my blog., I did not say Nuns, Priests, beads or any earthly thing saves us. Neither does blind obedience to ANY man, be it Priest, Preacher, President, or Potentate. I said FAITH in Jesus Christ saves us (all), nothing or no one else.
"Married to a Catholic, you are unequally yoked just as the Scriptures say. If you are truly saved you would not have married a Catholic, and the so called preacher would have pointed that out to you. Maybe your spouse isn't a practicing Catholic."
The ignorance is astounding. First of all, go back and study the unequally yoked passage in context. Would we be unequally yoked with Episcopalians? Lutherans? Anglicans? What exactly were the denominations Paul was speaking about in that passage? If you read closely, he was speaking of UNBELIEVERS. You are saying that Catholics do not believe in Jesus Christ as Messiah.
If what you say is true then Peter was teaching contary in 1 Peter 2.
Historically, Baptists have not refused to marry a couple where one spouse is Catholic. However, the Catholic church does refuse to marry those to this day unless one goes through annulment and other byzantine processes
There are many cults within professing Christendom. Vision Forum is a cult. The Shepherding movement is a cult (a precursor of CJ Mahaney's SGM churches today where they call their leaders 'Apostles' and are totally subject to their 'care leaders' as their authorities.) Todd Bentley's movement is a cult, The Jim Jones movement was a cult. The Hyles folks were a cult.
There are many more but we certainly have had our share of cults. Most Catholics do not even attend Mass!
Not an opinion, wise guy.
Fact.
There is nowhere near unanimous opinion amongst Southern Baptists that the Catholics are a "cult".
May 23, 2009 10:41 PM
Wow, I must have touched a raw nerve! Why the name calling?
Again, take out the word cult in our discourse. Are the catholic priests, popes, rosaries and crucifixes necessary? These are the symbols they use(yes, vast majority of them). What do you say about the omission of books in the Bible and putting others in that are not in our Bibles. Are those extra books the inerrant Word of God?
I applaud those who have stated on this blog that they have abandoned these.
Anon 7:48 AM
Pay attention. WD is not Catholic Lover. It's someone else who responded with his situation. He says he loves his catholic wife but did not say he supports the catholic church's rituals and pope worship.
Watchdog, ain't it time to leave the videos of the FBC Jax church alone? Walk away from the whole thing and stop looking back? Look at all the trouble it keeps causing. Can't you just walk away from it. I stopped agreeing with them so I stopped watching, TV, computer, whatever, I don't watch it anymore and have finally happily moved on and found another church and if you DON"T AGREE WITH THEM, its TIME TO MOVE ON. Something you should have done a LONG time ago. If they are so horrible, stop WATCHING THEM and POSTING ABOUT THEM. Just a friendly suggestion.
"The husband (saved) sanctifies the wife even when she is unsaved according to the Word. "
And here I thought only Jesus Christ saves us. I had NO idea mere depraved human male husbands could bring salvation to a wife!
Would you please cite the chapter and verses you are referring to so we can study this most incredible new biblical revelation for ourselves?
"Again, take out the word cult in our discourse. Are the catholic priests, popes, rosaries and crucifixes necessary? These are the symbols they use(yes, vast majority of them). What do you say about the omission of books in the Bible and putting others in that are not in our Bibles. Are those extra books the inerrant Word of God?"
This is hysterical. Ok, what about our pews, altars, bits of crackers, pulpits, buildings, Sunday School, etc?
NONE of it is in the NT scripture for the ekklesia. Every single bit is added in. All the way down to having ONE guy preach/teach on Sunday (why Sunday? Was that commanded?) and pretend he is in charge of the Body.
We should clean up our own act.
As to the books of the bible which are not included or added as you say, you need to read the history of how the canon was decided. The reason we leave out those books was because God was silent for 400 years. Those books do have historical value, though.
But I find it fascinating that Esther was left in. God does not speak in Esther, either.
By the sound of your comment it is as if you think reading the apocrypha would be a sin.
"Again, take out the word cult in our discourse. Are the catholic priests, popes, rosaries and crucifixes necessary? These are the symbols they use(yes, vast majority of them). "
Drive thru any mega church parking lot and count the plastic fish on the cars. So, are THOSE a symbol? For what? Know anyone who wears Cross jewelry? What is that about?
We have no room to talk. It is all silly and meaningless.
And Baptists do have 'popes'. Their names are Paige Patterson and Al Mohler.
WD, thought things had turned around, but seems the road is too narrow to turn the "bus" around. Best wait, then, 'till you get to a wider spot. Now, Smyrl's message, which I have not heard, yet: I was born Roman Catholic. I was indoctrinated in the faith for 12 years. I lighted more candles, made the sign of the cross, around the rosaries -- around and around. I received "Holy Communion" for a portion of my salvation, not knowing the Bible does not endorse this doctrine; Jesus does not show up in the host of the communion. It had nothing to do with getting me into Heaven. I found, after wondering around, for the next three years, that only one thing worked. Jesus and Jesus alone. No where in the Bible do I find one should pray to any personage other than Jesus and the Father (God). Mary has no place in any of it. My salvation rest on Jesus' "blood and righteousness." Salvation is in none other! This being true, when a Roman Catholic awakens to Christ as Saviour, he/she NEEDS to get out of the Roman Catholic Church and get into a Bible believing fellowship where the word is preached and souls can be encouraged to come to Jesus.
I have ministered for 50+ plus years, now, believing that decision of a 15 years old boy was the "real thing." Trust me in this: I am not the finished product, but I am on my way -- Heaven bound!
One other word on getting out of Roman Catholicism: If God be God, then serve Him. No one else qualifies! c.
ps Now, to go and read Smyrl's message.
Yo What up watchdog?
first, my main concern is smyrl's hair. what is up with that do?
second, catholics are wrong on the gospel. it does not mean there are not regenerate ones among them. however, they are preaching something extra; they always have. When we say faith alone, by grace, alone, through Christ alone... they do not agree. That is the gospel. You could stand to be stronger on that.
third, lifeway does proliferate some garbage. they need to clean up that man centered junk.
If you are going to get smyrl on something, get him for saying things like, "no body does church like first baptist." - that is an arrogant statement.
Keep going watchdog.
"third, lifeway does proliferate some garbage. they need to clean up that man centered junk."
Very good point. Again, we have no room to talk until we clean up our act. Lifeway sells Joel Osteen, TD Jakes, Ken Copeland, Rob Bell and many more. Not to mention many Jesus trinkets and Jesus home decor items...icons?
Anon 5:08pm. I Cor 7:14...For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean: but now are they holy.
I Cor 7:14...For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean: but now are they holy.
May 24, 2009 8:29 PM
Please study this in context. Look at verse 12. Paul is always careful. He says, "I, not the Lord says..." This is something Jesus did not teach on and Paul is careful to make that clear.
Sanctified, in this context, does not mean that the unbelieving spouse is saved just by being married to a Christian. It simply means that they are "set apart" (The Greek word also means 'hallowed") for a special working in their lives by the Holy Spirit, by virtue of being so close to someone who is a Christian.
" Otherwise your children would be unclean, but now they are holy"
Not only does the presence of a believing spouse do good for the unbelieving spouse, it also does good for the children and great good, because it can be said now they are holy. Because they, too, will witness this working of the Holy Spirit through the believing parent.
No human can "save" another human. Only Jesus Christ can do that. He does work through believers and that is what Paul is talking about.
Sanctified does not mean saved. It is what happens AFTER we are saved. We are set apart...growing in Holiness.
Again, you write, to simply discredit FBCJAX and the staff. The article that you write does nothing to edify the Body of Christ.
I think that the Watchdog understands that controversy breeds popularity.
I held my tongue on your Daryl Gilliard article. Amazing! You attempt to tie innocent men into the crimes of another man. To what end? Discredit men of God to tear down their ministry?
Sir, get some help. Stop exploiting helpless young girls and their family to make a sick point. Your writing just wreaks of vanity.
Brother Smyrl preaches the truth!
I have just watched a moving documentary of Medal of Honor recipients, on PBS. These were men of extraordinary courage in wars and conflicts far away from the safety we enjoy in this country. Risking their lives for their fellow soldiers, showing great courage under extreme circumstances, almost all said (that lived) they just did what they had to, and that they didn't expect any special reward. One was a Jew, one was a Catholic chaplin, one was a Japanese American serving in Korea. But, each of these men were called upon to do something very special for each other and their country.....The United States of America. Other recipients called themselves just average Joe's. Many gave the ultimate sacrifice, their lives. I would call them all Heros of the finest caliber. These men lived and died so we might have this freedom to worship.
My point here is.... These men did what they did for others without thinking of a reward. As many did not return. We have the freedom today to tell others about the Saving Grace of Jesus Christ whether we are Baptist, Catholic, Methodist or whatever. If we are Saved this is our mandate. Oh that we had the courage and the conviction of these men to face the battle for lost souls. We must put aside pettiness in churches. Preachers must preach the Word. The saved must seek the lost. Churches must treat it's members as brothers and sisters in Christ. If any one has injured another spiritually they must set it straight. But all of us MUST look to the Cross and ask the Lord to forgive us for letting Him down and then go forward to witness when He leads us. We must examine why we are in churches and who do we really serve. I hope we will all hear "Well done good and faithful servant". May God truly Bless America.
"Sanctified does not mean saved. It is what happens AFTER we are saved. We are set apart...growing in Holiness."
No, sanctification is part of salvation. (Art. IV BF&M)
People are going to find their own way. They are going to believe what and whom they want. Instead of arguing about Baptist, Catholics, and "Religion", why not study the Bible. Get familiar with it. Know what it says. Then use it to witness. The Devil will side track people on "issues" just to keep them busy NOT WITNESSING. Even if the issues are important, sometimes. It still takes the light off Jesus and man's need of a Savior.
Many years ago I was in "May Cohens" Dept. store. There were two semi-elderly women there reading a book about astrology. Trying to figure out their lives. I was young and brash at the time. Before I knew it, I had approached them and said "Ladies you have it all wrong. You must look to the Creator not the creation. You must worship Him". They laid the book down looked "sheepish" and walked off. Maybe they found Jesus later. At least they were thinking. Jesus is our focus. Don't get side tracked.
People are going to find their own way. They are going to believe what and whom they want. Instead of arguing about Baptist, Catholics, and "Religion", why not study the Bible. Get familiar with it. Know what it says. Then use it to witness. The Devil will side track people on "issues" just to keep them busy NOT WITNESSING. Even if the issues are important, sometimes. It still takes the light off Jesus and man's need of a Savior.
Many years ago I was in "May Cohens" Dept. store. There were two semi-elderly women there reading a book about astrology. Trying to figure out their lives. I was young and brash at the time. Before I knew it, I had approached them and said "Ladies you have it all wrong. You must look to the Creator not the creation. You must worship Him". They laid the book down looked "sheepish" and walked off. Maybe they found Jesus later. At least they were thinking. Jesus is our focus. Don't get side tracked.
People are going to find their own way. They are going to believe what and whom they want. Instead of arguing about Baptist, Catholics, and "Religion", why not study the Bible. Get familiar with it. Know what it says. Then use it to witness. The Devil will side track people on "issues" just to keep them busy NOT WITNESSING. Even if the issues are important, sometimes. It still takes the light off Jesus and man's need of a Savior.
Many years ago I was in "May Cohens" Dept. store. There were two semi-elderly women there reading a book about astrology. Trying to figure out their lives. I was young and brash at the time. Before I knew it, I had approached them and said "Ladies you have it all wrong. You must look to the Creator not the creation. You must worship Him". They laid the book down looked "sheepish" and walked off. Maybe they found Jesus later. At least they were thinking. Jesus is our focus. Don't get side tracked.
You did just what some of us are doing on this blog. We are putting the focus on JESUS when are saying what HE has said in His Word. He said in John 14:6, "no one comes to the Father but by Him." Now, if Catholics, Baptist, "religion" or what or whomever it maybe are going about getting to the Heavenly Father any other way, they are looking to the wrong source. Just as those 2 semi-elderly women you approached were doing. IT IS IMPERATIVE THAT WE TELL OTHERS THE WAY THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE NOW!! WE ARE TOLD TO PRESENT THE GOSPEL OF SALVATION TO A LOST AND DYING WORLD. WE ABSOLUTELY MUST, DO IT NOW AND NEVER PASS UP AN OPPORTUNITY TO SPREAD TRUTH. WE CANNOT BE ONLY CONCERNED ABOUT OURSELVES IN THINKING THAT "PEOPLE WILL GET IT." WE WERE TOLD BY JESUS TO GO THEREFORE AND SPREAD THE GOSPEL TO OTHERS.
THE END
After Dr. Reid of Southeastern preached a very good sermon last night, capping off a wonderful day of worship at FBCJ, Mac decided to state: all the good at FBC Jax, the people being saved, international ministries and such: none of these things he said will make it to the front page of the newspaper, said Mac. An obvious complaint by Mac about the recent negative press coverage FBCJ has received from the blogger mess.
True, we won't see front page news about the goings on at FBCJ, since our country is not a theocracy. The TU job is not to report on religious activities on the front page. And sadly, now the average person in Jax cares even less about the good at FBCJ, especially after what they've already read about FBC Jax, the sheriff and the prosecutor's office involvement in the bloggergate mess. And it is very newsworthy when the head pastor of FBCJ declares a critical blogger to be a psycho to a newspaper reporter on the record. That will usually get front page news.
For Brunson's benefit, the TU has historically been very fair to FBCJ, but they couldn't ignore the sheriff's involvement in outting Rich who committed no crime but was dared to be ultra critical of the church downtown. Sorry, Brunson, the TU is doing their job.
May 24, 2009 2:49 PM - you tell the WD to "move on." I will remind YOU that he did try and move on. He joined another church, he emailed and called John Blount and told THEM to leave him alone. Blount responded that he was "compelled" to pursue discipline against him anyway. Then it became known the church did not just keep this an internal matter. They tried to press criminal charges and get Tom thrown in jail! They failed and were found out, then they started lying to cover for their deeds. Then their beloved "imperfect" pastor diagnosed Tom, whom he had never met or spoken with even one time, as clinically being a sociopath. And then, the arrogant bully called the man a sociopath in a front page article of the local newspaper for Tom's entire family, extended family, co-workers, new church members and staff, and friends to read.
So NO! NO! NO! Tom will not be "just going away" now. In fact, Tom is just getting started. Unless FBC and its leaders do an about face and grow a brain, and drop the pride and arrogance, this story will go and on for years and much damage may end up being done to the reputation of Brunson, Blount, Soud, the FBC Jax, its members and the Lord. Sad, but these mega CEO's just can't bring themselves to do what is right. They MUST try and destroy any man who questions them, though they are admittedly "imperfect." Unless they really don't believe they are "imperfect."
Good point, anon. If Mac truly feels he is imperfect, why get so defensive and angry and "aggressively confront" any man that questions him? And how then, can Kevin King be telling the truth when he "preaches" that to question the staff (who are imperfect) is the same as questioning the Lord (who IS perfect.) These bullies can't even keep a logical train of thought going.
Is there ANYONE connected with FBC Jax serving on the IMB trustee board?
If so, should I be frightened for the continued fussing and power struggles having an affect on the Holy Spirit's ability to work through our beloved IMB?
The more I read several blogs, the more worried I become about the future of the IMB and as to whether the Father would still continue to bless our efforts to reach a lost world.
It seems that this question might be a little off topic, but I'm overseas and worried about what's really going on in the power plays in boards and administration of our denominational boards.
Thank you!
No, sanctification is part of salvation. (Art. IV BF&M)
May 25, 2009 6:45 AM
That is right. But you NEVER have sanctification APART from Justification when it comes to salvation. You never have one without the other.
Sanctification simply means growing in Holiness, set apart. The word comes from the root word: Saint.
Let's go back to your original comment on 1 Corin 7:14. You claimed that a believing spouse could save another unbelieving spouse. You also claimed that sanctification meant "save". Check the Greek on both words. Sozo is save, rescue.
The word used in 1 Corin 7 means being Holyized. Check the interlinear. this means being set apart to hopefully BE SAVED. Paul is saying their Christian witness by word and deed from the Holy Spirit could help them be saved.
Salvation is a supernatural act. Only the Holy Spirit can convict of sin and bring repentance. We cannot do it. Only the HOly Spirit can regenerate hearts.
A saved person is both Justified and Sanctified. Sanctified is the outward 'setting apart', growing in Holiness. Some folks can fake it for a long time. That is why Jesus said the wheat would grow up with the tares. that is why many who do great things for the Lord will not be saved. Jesus will say, I never knew you. (Matt 7)
Why do you keep quoting the BFM? I hope you realize that back in the year 2000 Al Mohler fought tooth and nail to have priesthood of believer taken out of the BFM. He did not win but he did win an concession. He insisted an 's' be added.
Read here why:
http://www.baptiststandard.com/2000/7_17/pages/bfm_meaning.html
Al Mohler was afraid you would think YOU could interpret scripture alone with just you and the Holy Spirit. Effectively ending the reign of our earthly priests.
The BFM is a creed developed my mere men with agenda's. To keep quoting it only tells me you follow men and not Christ.
Ask yourself why the 1963 version was not good enough and had to be changed?
"Is there ANYONE connected with FBC Jax serving on the IMB trustee board?"
Debbie Brunson
"If so, should I be frightened for the continued fussing and power struggles having an affect on the Holy Spirit's ability to work through our beloved IMB? "
It is not beloved. It has been the source of power struggles for the last 20 years. Many missionaries were fired or resigned because they refused to sign a man made document. Many signed their bibles but that was not good enough.
The CP money you give goes to pay for the luxurious lifestyle of many of our entity heads. It helped pay the big African game taxidermy bills of Paige Patterson to decorate his offices. It pays for his pastry chef at Pecan Manor. It paid for his extensive remodeling of Pecan Manor and the expensive china they use to entertain.
The CP money pays for 6 figure created jobs for SBC big wigs who need jobs like Hemphill. Google his created job.
The money given to the SBC also pays for the ELRC, our lobbying entity in Washington DC headed by Richard Land. Fat lot of good that did.
Your CP dollars paid for Bob Reccord. Google him and read the Georgia Index article about his tenure with NAMB then read Mary Kinney's book (Spending God's Money) on the money he blew on London Premiers, his 1 million dollar slush fund and all the books he wrote and made money off of while we were paying him a huge salary.
Oh, the list is long but I will stop there.
When all that is paid, there is little left to send out more missionaries. We are fools to keep proping all this up.
Give it to Heart Cry Missionary Society where there is some accountability and they are not interested in big 6 figure incomes and lifestyle of the rich and famous back home.
Or, you can stick your head in the sand and keep supporting this stuff with no accountability. (The trustees are hand picked. Read Mary Kinney's book for another glimpse into what the Trustees for NAMB were like. They had no clue)
Maybe the IMB is where some former preachers can go to continue their high flying lifestyles. They get to travel a lot without answering to a church. And spend wads of other peoples money on "mission trips" (vacations). The ministry, in general, is one job where you can have NO BOSS. You certinly don't have to answer to a church congregation, whose money supports you. Just tell them to trust God and keep giving. Plus it's really none of their business what the preacher, that you pay, makes in salary, or his family members. Develop an ego, thick skin and stonewall the rest of it. By the time they finally get "your number", you can rake it in and "retire" to do more traveling. Great job. And just when I thought the SBC could not appear worse, we get the IMB picture from Anonymous 11:35. Really makes you want to give more doesn't it? I feel sorry for the REAL preachers and the Real missionaries. They are up against a tough fight to really serve the Lord and counteract the bad publicity of those using the ministry as a quick way to riches. God bless you real servants of God. You will receive your reward from the Lord.
I dare say that I would much rather be part of a Catholic Cult that strives to spread the Gospel and help the poor and widows and fatherless rather than being part of greed infested, hate mongering corporation like FBC Jax. I am ashamed for FBC Jax.
Anon 11:17 Thanks for the insight. Look at the same chapter vs. 16..."For what knowest thoujs, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether you shalt save thy wife?".
Clearly the priesthood of the believer is being spoken of in this passage. That is why it is so important to never give up on winning anyone and everyone to the Lord Jesus.
You guys are SO right-on about the corruption at the Missionary Boards. Coincidentally enough, I just read Spending God's Money about the NAMB this weekend and read Wade Burleson's book about the IMB a few weeks ago.
The corruption is scandlous. Shameful!! Believe me, I won't give a penny to support these scam outfits.
If your really want to support LEGITIMATE missions, please consider Gospel for Asia. 100% of goes to the missionary. You have more control over designating moneys. K.P. Yohannon is runs a very clean, transparent operation. And he, himself, lives a very humble life compared to these big-wigs on the SBC boars.
May 24, 2009 2:49 PM - you tell the WD to "move on." I will remind YOU that he did try and move on. He joined another church, he emailed and called John Blount and told THEM to leave him alone. Blount responded that he was "compelled" to pursue discipline against him anyway. Then it became known the church did not just keep this an internal matter. They tried to press criminal charges and get Tom thrown in jail! They failed and were found out, then they started lying to cover for their deeds. Then their beloved "imperfect" pastor diagnosed Tom, whom he had never met or spoken with even one time, as clinically being a sociopath. And then, the arrogant bully called the man a sociopath in a front page article of the local newspaper for Tom's entire family, extended family, co-workers, new church members and staff, and friends to read.
So NO! NO! NO! Tom will not be "just going away" now. In fact, Tom is just getting started. Unless FBC and its leaders do an about face and grow a brain, and drop the pride and arrogance, this story will go and on for years and much damage may end up being done to the reputation of Brunson, Blount, Soud, the FBC Jax, its members and the Lord. Sad, but these mega CEO's just can't bring themselves to do what is right. They MUST try and destroy any man who questions them, though they are admittedly "imperfect." Unless they really don't believe they are "imperfect."
May 25, 2009 9:40 AM
This is the first I heard of criminal charges being filed against WD. I would like to know if there is any truth to this. WD would you answer that. I know about them picture and mail stealing; however this was only mention to get the JSO involved. Is there something else? I am still praying about leaving this church.
After Dr. Reid of Southeastern preached a very good sermon last night, capping off a wonderful day of worship at FBCJ, Mac decided to state: all the good at FBC Jax, the people being saved, international ministries and such: none of these things he said will make it to the front page of the newspaper, said Mac. An obvious complaint by Mac about the recent negative press coverage FBCJ has received from the blogger mess.
True, we won't see front page news about the goings on at FBCJ, since our country is not a theocracy. The TU job is not to report on religious activities on the front page. And sadly, now the average person in Jax cares even less about the good at FBCJ, especially after what they've already read about FBC Jax, the sheriff and the prosecutor's office involvement in the bloggergate mess. And it is very newsworthy when the head pastor of FBCJ declares a critical blogger to be a psycho to a newspaper reporter on the record. That will usually get front page news.
For Brunson's benefit, the TU has historically been very fair to FBCJ, but they couldn't ignore the sheriff's involvement in outting Rich who committed no crime but was dared to be ultra critical of the church downtown. Sorry, Brunson, the TU is doing their job.
May 25, 2009 9:21 AM
Seems like someone just keeps sticking their foot in their mouth. If you are not going to answer the questions that should have been answered quit bringing it up, it only makes it worse.
Does anyone know what is going on with the choir? Looks like there were several missing Sunday.
I don't know of anything else. Perhaps the anon poster was referring to the allegations of the picture taking and mail stealing as being attempts to get me thrown in jail, I don't know.
But not to worry, if this lawsuit moves forward, I am hopeful that alll parties involved will give truthful answers to what happened last September/October regarding this blog.
Very soon I will post a copy of my complaint filed with the JSO in April, and the response I received from the Office of General Counsel.
Also, Jeff Brumley has an article coming out Tuesday on church discipline. My understanding is it will include some information regarding the FBC Jax church discipline exercised against me, but it will focus on the bigger issue nationwide of church discipline, and some of the legal aspects. Should be interesting. Look for an article on my blog Tuesday morning as well.
About the Anon 9:49 post - it is true that after my family and I joined our new church, that John Blount called me on the phone and left a voicemail that I needed to meet with the "committee". I then sent him an email asking him to leave my family alone, that we wished to not be contacted by them anymore. But Blount's response was that he was "compelled" by the bylaws to continue the church discipline process which we now know included releasing my name to the deacons on Feb 23, and then the Deacon's Resolution read by A.C. Soud on Feb 25.
I have shared this information, and even provided hyperlinks to the emails exchanged with Blount, here on this blog.
Below is an Anon post made today by a Catholic here in Jacksonville. He/she posted under my Jim Smyrl "Lost Articles" post from last year, so I am putting it here for others to read the Anon's insightful remarks. If you want to read Smyrl's "Catholic Cult" articles referred to by the Anon, click on the "Smyrl's Catholic Cult Articles" link in the right hand column. You won't find them on the FBC Jax blogsite, as they were taken down shortly after they posted.
Thank you, Catholic Anon for sharing your views which I think are very helpful and informative. Although no longer a member of FBC Jax myself, I can assure you that the vast majority of members at FBC Jax do not even come close to sharing Smyrl's view that the Catholic church is a "cult". Many FBC Jax members, and Southern Baptists in general find Smyrl's remarks offensive as you do. Smyrl is a young preacher, who in my opinion is trying to be provocative and cutting edge, who over the years I'm sure will look back and regret his careless words about our Catholic friends.
Here is the Anon's post:
------------------------
I find the Catholic Cult articles offensive and uninformed. The church has a government much like the United States. It needs a leader, the Pope. Catholics do not consider the Pope a higher authority than Christ. He is the authority of our church as is Mac for FBC. Mary is reveared because she said yes. What if she had said no when asked to be the mother of our Lord?
We do not worship Mary or statues or Saints. We ask for intervention based on the scripture "he who believith in him shall not parish but have everlasting life" Seeking their prayers is like asking a heavenly congragation to pray for us, much as you might ask a friend to pray for you. Tradition is basically addressed as experience. We are a 2000 year old religion and we have experience good and bad.
We do not believe we have to or are forced to go to confession. When I converted I was told direct confession to my Lord and Savior is appropriate. The priest is a vehicle to releive guilt much like a misnister is when he councils someone from his congregation. The priesthood is founded on the breath that Jesus breathed into his diciples after he arose from the grave. He stated "who you forgive will be forgiven". This tradition was passed on through Peter to the priesthood. It is part of becoming a priest that a more senior priest, bishiop ect will breathe on the new priest.
Catholics do not go around trashing the baptist religion it would be sinful. We are not a perfect religion but we believe in the one Lord Jesus Christ and we as everyday Catholics are not involved in the Church government.
We are baptised and saved and if we feel our christening as a baby isn't enough we can ask to be Baptised again.
My priest Father Dan Cody speaks only good things of the Protestant religion. He is a true teacher with a Christian heart. I urge the people who read the three blogs calling our religion a cult to meet us at St. Josephs to see how we truly live and believe.
Wher is St. Joseph's?
I don't think that even YOU understand what you believe. Tell me...how do you get to heaven?
I not only have a Priest...I have a High Priest (Heb. 8) and guess what? His name is Jesus Christ! That's who I confess to. It is not like going to a pastor or preacher. The purpose for your going to a 'priest' is to say..."father I have sinned, and to confess to him." Isn't it!? And the reason your father Dan Cody doesn't speak ill of protestants is because he is deceived and doesn't know the way of the truth. So, how can he say anything against it or any other group?
Also, don't you know that you should not refer to any human being as Father (in terms of piety or religion)? Sad sad sad. And so is Tom. Put the Scriptures (Bible) in context and examine them to see is Don or others are speaking the truth.
I know what I believe and what you believe as well. I converted to from the Baptist church. I found its preaching judgemental, full of hail fire and brim stone and not loving in the ways of Christ. I go to heaven by being saved. I have to be in full repentance of my sins. I accept Christ as my savior.
Also not everyone in any given religion fully excepts everything that is taught. For example I am iffy on pergatory because it is not in scripture.
The comment about Father Dan is devisive, he has served God for more than 50 years and brought many people to God. He is not decieved about anything and for you to comment on the man you do not know is sinful.
Our church is in Mandarin come see us. We worship without the need to hate others.
This is America freedom of religion is founded in the constituton. Practice yours how you wish and leave us to worship how we choose. By the way being a 2000 year old church we have many traditions. Father is a term in tradition. He is the father of his small flock of believers and a shepard tending us as well. Don't get hung up on mere words or symbols of the church much of it comes from a time long before any of us.
It is hypocracy to believe one religion is better than the other. I have a wonderful relationship with God and have seen his miracles happen. I am not going to continue blogging for I sense the senseless will continue on. i have said waht I wanted to say. Catholics have been defending our faith for 2000 years and we are still here.
I know what I believe and what you believe as well. I converted to from the Baptist church. I found its preaching judgmental, full of hail fire and brim stone and not loving in the ways of Christ. I go to heaven by being saved. I have to be in full repentance of my sins. I accept Christ as my savior.
Also not everyone in any given religion fully excepts everything that is taught. For example I am iffy on pergatory because it is not in scripture.
It doesn't seem as though you know what you believe.
First: The question was posed "how do you get to heaven; your answer "I have to be full of repentance, and I accept Christ as my Savior." Well, tell me, what was the purpose of Christ' death on the cross since "I" had to do these two things. Also, you do not know what I believe, because Jesus Christ died on the cross and was buried and rose on the third day as it is written and ascended up into heaven and forever lives to intercede for me. Your dear 'father' Dan DOES NOT intercede on neither my behalf nor yours (Heb. 7:25). We have a real High Priest named Jesus Christ (read Hebrews 9), who goes to the real Father on my behalf, making 'father' Dan's position null and void.
It doesn't matter that you go to YOUR priest to confess because once Christ died (once and for all), the veil of temple was split from top to bottom granting us DIRECT access to the true Father. No longer does anyone have to offer sacrifices or intercede for another. Your dear Dan needs Christ as well as the rest of us. He is not qualified to take our sins to God and offer forgiveness to mankind. He has it backwards.
And the reason your priest doesn't say anything about any other religion or denomination is because he's in darkness himself and can not see truth. So, what can he say? He doesn't know. Why are you iffy about purgatory? Why don't you ask your father for clarity? This concept is not scriptural. To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. This is for the Christian though. Ask God to help you see the light. Trust and rely solely on Him. And He will give you light. He will show you the TRUE WAY.
Jesus said that His word cuts, it divides, (Hebrews 4:14-16) it's deep, it rebukes (2 Timothy 3:16), it's all sufficient.
Why don't you read these Scriptures for yourself and you will see that the word of God separates people; it divides and one would have to make a choice. If you be for God worship Him. If you be for 'father' Dan or anything or anyone other than Jesus Christ, then worship him. Ask God to help you through His Holy Word. Not the Catechism or any other thing outside of the Word of God.
Now again, how do you get to heaven?
Yep, I too agree with Smyrl. Did anybody see the last Pope's funeral? That really opened my eyes to the paganism of the Catholics. And yes, they do attribute salvation more to Mary than to Jesus. (There was a huge letter "M" on the Pope's casket.) In fact, the Catholics don't even preach salvation. They are all taught that they are saved because they were sprinkled on the head when they were a baby. Then later they are "confirmed" and told that "today you are accepting Jesus." Their teachings are so off, and most of the people just don't know any better. They just believe what they are told. If they ever read Hebrews 9 and 10, they would know that the priest "can never take away their sins." But most of them have never read the Bible. I have a family member who was raised Catholic and years later she did read the Bible. Praise the Lord, she accepted Jesus and she and her entire family left the Catholic faith and joined a Baptist church. So keep on preaching, Smyrl. Lots of people agree with you.
"It is hypocracy to believe one religion is better than the other."
Anon 5:30pm 05/27/09.Your ignorance of Scripture is staggering. Jesus stated "I AM the way,the truth and,the life;And "NO ONE" comes to the Father except thru "ME"[John 14:6]! Christianity is superior to all other religions,You Think?
"Catholics do not go around trashing the baptist religion it would be sinful."
This is completely false when put in a generalized comment like this.
However, those that are not Catholics are granted the status of "outside the church" by the Pope.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,288841,00.html
Yes, that's right we are in "defective" and "not true" churches.
Why not post an article on how insulting the Catholic church is to non-Catholics?
Actually it is the way of catholicism that is the true way. It contains all the truths necessary for salvation and it has one virtue that the protestant denominations see to have lost--it's called obredience. When you interpret the Bible by yourself you obviously make a lot of errors so if I were you I would concentrate on my relationship with God and keep my mouth quiet when it came to things I was ignorant of especially His Blessed Mother. You are unworthy to say her name.
This is more for you-the moderator than your bloggers. I have a question for you.
Jesus spent 3 years teaching all of us before He left us. He spent 30 years teaching His Mother. Quite a difference.What if all the dogmas about Her in the catholic church are true, what if in fact Jesus has defeated Satan on the cross and has given His Mother the duty of raising Her army in the last days to add to his humility in his public defeat and what if the catholic church is in fact preaching truth, do you think God would be pleased with anyone who was responsible for running down the the Mother of God or the religion that Jesus Himself(bless His holy name) started? Be wise as serpents but gentle as sheep--God take care of you!
Barry - thanks for posting here.
I believe most baptists disagreements over Catholic "dogma" regarding Mary is that we don't see the emphasis on Mary in the New Testament writings.
I know, isn't it incredible. I think God wanted to keep Her for Himself and at the last moment on the cross He felt sorry for us and gave Her as our Mother. You know though that God does reveal things to some and not to others for a reason. wow I'm feeling a lot of love right now. God bless all of you richly. later ,I am going to mass now, bye Jax.
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