Ergun Caner says "I have never intentionally misled anyone."If Ergun Caner has not intentionally misled anyone about his Christian testimony, then all us Conservative Christian Republicans owe Bill Clinton an apology for calling him a liar over his infamous "I never had sexual relations with that woman" remark.
Clinton attempted to mislead us over his sexual relations with Lewinksy. On purpose. Because he had much to gain by misleading us.
As the discussions continue over the truthfulness of important parts of Ergun Caner's testimony about his upbringing as a Jihadist, a terrorist trained in Europe, even descriptions of himself as a "hardened terrorist" - it is helpful at this juncture to look at what his defenders are calling his "apology" regarding these multiple inconsistencies.
The defenders of Caner say he already has apologized. They say this is an attack on Caner for his views on Calvinism, or his fundamentalism. They say the bloggers are liberals. It's an effort by Satanic Muslims do "bring him down". Caner himself referred to the bloggers who are holding him accountable "small band of professing Christians" (we know what that means: a bunch of insignificant nobodies who aren't really Christians, anyways).
Caner has repented, his defenders say.
Really?
Here is the part of his statement on SBC Today under the heading "MISSTATEMENTS":
Every minister has made pulpit mistakes. Being called a “liar,” however, is a serious charge, especially when it is made by Christians. That would indicate that (1) the accusers can know the motives of the accused person’s heart, and (2) the accused person intentionally misled people.
I have never intentionally misled anyone. I am sure I have made many mistakes in the pulpit in the past 20-plus years, and I am sure I will make some in the future. For those times where I misspoke, said it wrong, scrambled words, or was just outright confusing, I apologize and will strive to do better.
I point to the sermon at FBC Jax on 11/20/01, and I make the charge that he intentionally misled Jerry Vines, and the good people of FBC Jacksonville. He claimed to have been "raised in Europe", until the age of 15 to be in "Islamic Youth Jihad", and that he "was trained to do that which was done on 11 September". His pronunciation of "Europe" and "Ah-mee-di-cah"...his mentioning of learning to speak English in Brooklyn, and that at the time of his salvation near the age of 18 that he spoke broken English.
All of that, taken together, in the context of a sermon right after 9/11, I submit was intentionally misleading the people of FBC Jacksonville.
It wasn't a "misstep".
It wasn't just "scrambled words".
It wasn't "confusing".
It was crystal clear. He painted the portrait of himself, in the FBC Jax pulpit, as that of being a trained terrorist who came to America to kill us.
Yet as documented in he and his brother's own book, they came to "Ah-meer-di-cah" when Caner was 4.
Caner was 4 years old when he moved to Columbus.
Yet he made me, and others that day, believe he came at the age of 15 as a trained, Islamic Jihad terrorist.
When will Caner publicly apologize to his Christian brothers and sisters all over the SBC for his intentional misleading of people about his upbringing? I don't think its coming anytime soon. He has taken cues from his good friend and coauthor Mac Brunson, apparently - when Mac slandered me by calling me a "sociopath" and "mentally unstable" in the Florida Times Union last April, he never apologized. Never retracted or clarified his statements about me...but 6 months later, from the pulpit, he said his remarks were a "stumble" - a victim of a reporter who put his "stumble" on the front page.
Caner "misspoke". Brunson "stumbled".
For two men who love to preach hell fire and brimstone and repentence and church discipline for recalcitrants and their own critics - what a poor testimony that they can't come clean and apologize for their public words that harm the cause of Christ.
But these are the crazy days of the SBC in which we live.
29 comments:
Just wait...pretty soon Vines will come out in support of Caner as a Christian brother...ignoring details.
The implication is: If Vines has no problem, neither should you.
You guys do not get it. Liberty is too big to be wrong.
We have Ergun Caner speaking on [Jihadism and as an expert] ...
Freedom Federation > The Awakening Schedule - April 15 -16, 2010
Friday 8:00 – 9:15 AM – TRBC
Israel, the Middle East, and Military Readiness
- 8:00 – 9:15 Welcome by Dean Mat Staver
- Music by Maurice Sklar and Opening Prayer
- Art Ally – The Timothy Plan – Opening Comments
- Vice Prime Minister of Israel Moshe Ya’alon – A Message to the Freedom Federation
- Israeli Member of the Knesset for Likud and Chairman of World Likud Danny Danon – Jihadism and the Threat to Western Values
- Concluding Remarks by Dr. Ergun Caner
-----------------------------------
4. Defense Readiness and the Threat of Jihadism.
- Becky Norton Dunlop – Track Leader
- Dr. Ergun Caner.
- James Lafferty
-----------------------------------
Friday Evening 6:30 – 10:15 PM – TRBC
Liberty and Justice Rally: The Millennial Generation and the Future
6:30 – 10:15 Music by LU Praise Team, Eddie James, and Maurice Sklar
Opening Prayer and Introduction of Lou Engle
Lou Engle – Prayer and Revival
Music by Eddie James
Bishop Harry Jackson – The Family and our Future
Lou Engle – Prayer and Music by LU Praise Team and Eddie James
Matt Mihelic – Defending the Helpless: Restoring a Culture of Life
Bishop W.C. Martin – Testimony about Adoption
Music by Maurice Sklar
Rev. Samuel Rodriguez – Righteousness and Justice
Music by Eddie James and Maurice Sklar
Johnnie Moore – Justice and the Role of Government
Dr. Tim Clinton – My Faith Matters
Dr. Ergun Caner – No Room for Cowards.
Dean Mat Staver – The Road Ahead
Concluding Group Prayer – Lou Engle, Harry Jackson, Rev. Samuel Rodriguez, Dr. Ergun Caner and Dean Mat Staver
Praise and Worship – LU Praise Team, Eddie James, and Maurice Sklar
Concluding Remarks by Johnnie Moore
Or that oldie but goodie... a mistake of the mind, not the heart.
Or Caner could be a sleeper, moving up the ladder of leadership for another purpose?
Just look at how blind his followers are now.
Well done post again. I think you have nailed it...again. :)
And Ergun is going to continue to speak the same things he always has. If that doesn't show the complete lack of conscience, then I don't know what does. It is simply mind boggling. But also eye opening.
This guy is FULL OF IT and I would have ZERO problem calling him a liar to his face. Liar!
You people that follow him and defend him? Dumb as rocks! Thank you very much.
Dr. Ergun Caner – No Room for Cowards...Plenty of Rooms for Liars.
Caner can attest as he certainly is no coward (boldly lying from the pulpit as he does)...except for when it comes time to 'fess up to the truth.
Watchdog,
Though I have never written on this subject, I have read yours, Debbie Kaufman's and James Whites articles with interest. I do not know Ergun Caner, but I hope he comes clean-quickly. What is available in published form is enough to indict his truthfulness, without ever going to motive. An "apology" for "mistakes" of "unintentional misleading statements" is like a CPA apologizing for "unintentionally" ignoring GAAP accounting principles and the law of the land - he may be sorry but there are consequences when the issue goes to the heart of one's calling.
The new bio of Dr. Caner will go up this week on his website. It has been approved by the Chancellor himself, Jerry Falwell, Jr. When I say, "approved," I mean the Chancellor sat at his desk, read it, and said, "Post it."
I have put in a couple of calls to Liberty that have not been returned. That is unfortunate. The issue is about to become national.
One of the advantages of knowing history is that you are not destined to repeat the mistakes of your forefathers. I would hope the Chancellor would think twice before he approves the new bio being posted.
In His Grace,
Wade
I am not writing this to be rude or ugly.
When are you SBC followers going to understand the leadership of this almost completely apostate institution.
The end justifies the means!
Look at Patterson's wife's website. Patterson may disagree with the pope, but he still has fellowship with him. (Rev.18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.)
AL Mohler, Danny Akin, Richard Land, Jonathan Falwell all were among the first to rush to sign a confederacy with Rome when they signed the Manhattan Declaration.
The end justifies the means!
It's all about butts in the pews and dollars in the coffers.
I honestly believe most of these folks – SBC “leaders” - are professional clergy men, well studied in
Christian things. (II Timothy 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.)
So if many are cajoled into the “faith”, whatever it takes is acceptable. Then “we” proclaim, “Look how many people “Came to Christ” through their ministry!” But it is God who gives the increase.
Not Men!
J
who cares if hes a liar? forget mr caner. everybody knows hes a liar now, lets just stop inviting him to speak at our churches and conventions, he will learn his lesson like that. my dear brethren, we must remember that there are muslims following the caner story too so we must do our best to show them how us real christians deal with liars. we should boycott caner i think thats the best way to deal with this
Fraud should have no place in the church, and that's what this is.
The problem is that when this does go to the national media this will end up being Christians vs. Muslims. This will only HELP Caner. It will take the focus off his fabrications and put it on a track of the vitriol between Christians and Muslims. I can see it coming. The SBC identity peoplewill be pleased and erroneously think they are vindicated.
And it will only HELP recruitment for Liberty.
This is a lesson for all of us as to how serious are sins. Caners exaggerations, fabrications, and stubborn refusal to fess up will continue to affect many. And cause more to sin. It will only end up being which HUMAN side you are on.
A good tree does not bear bad fruit. It really is that simple. Even if some try to convince us rotten fruit is not really rotten. We know it when we see it.
Caner makes the perfect poster boy for why we should never follow men and had best stop and think before we support any more celebrity Christians.
who cares if hes a liar? forget mr caner. everybody knows hes a liar now, lets just stop inviting him to speak at our churches and conventions, he will learn his lesson like that. my dear brethren, we must remember that there are muslims following the caner story too so we must do our best to show them how us real christians deal with liars. we should boycott caner i think thats the best way to deal with this
April 11, 2010 12:15 PM
Unfortuantly, you will have to teach the masses of "Christians" to read the Word and think for themselves first. If Mac invites him to speak, those at FBCJax will think Caner is ok. Because they believe whatever Mac teaches and says.
So, you gotta start there. Lots of ignorant professing Christians out there.
Anon 2:06
I disagree.
This will not at all be seen as a Muslim vs. Christian issue.
This is a "facts" versus "fiction" issue.
It is indisputable facts that conflict with the very words of Ergun Caner.
Caner thought he had it pegged as a "Muslims trying to take me down", and a blogger issue, and his defenders went along with it. Defenders even willing to attack those who shone a light on his fibs.
If there is a Muslim aspect to this story, it will be how the "band of professing Christians" in the SBC with their heads in the sand defended Caner by attacking the one Muslim that was trying to draw attention to Caner's fibs. They rejected his proof solely because he is Muslim, and for no other reason. And they did it viciously.
But that was before the FBC Jax 11/20/01 sermon hit the Internet. He will have a hard time explaining his story given to FBC Jax right after 9/11, which helped launch his career as an expert on all things Muslim.
Unfortunately, this is a huge black eye for Caner, the SBC and for Liberty.
We can disagree...I am simply musing how it will play out in the media.
The media can report Caner's fiction but he/Liberty will point them back to the Muslims trying to take them down. The facts will get 'lost' in the fray.
The SBC leadership will support Caner. They are the masters at ad hominem, smoke/mirrors and spin.
Let see what Vines says...will he make some vague statement of support for Caner...
Stranger things have happened. Piper invited Rick Warren to make the keynote at desiringGod conference this year.
Maybe, but I just don't see the facts getting lost.
It will be very compelling to hear his exaggerations, and the documents to back them up. I still think the news media will dig deeper and get their own evidence that hasn't come out yet.
Let's face it. The man has claimed to be a trained terrorist, and if not for Christ he would have come over here to blow us all up. That is about as far from the truth as he can get.
And I don't think the SBC will defend him as much as you think, if this does get to be a major news story.
Its indefensible. Especially the FBC Jax fibs right after 9/11.
When Dr. Brunson wrote that book with Caner, this meant they are friends right? So when did Dr. Brunson know about all this stuff and what does he have to say now? Would he write a book with Caner now? Didn't they work together?
Caner, well, I don't go to Liberty. I'm neither deaf dumb nor blind so I can certainly see discrepencies. I wish somebody WOULD go to motive in this particular case, cause I'm getting a bad feeling about this whole thing. I believe, at this point, that this guy is making fools out of a lot of people. If I'm misjudging, then clean up your story Caner.
Dr. Brunson, on the other hand....I DO attend that church from time to time and was already having a difficult enough time listening to him after the "sociopath" remark. Now, I'm going to tell you, this STUFF is really starting to affect me and not in a good way. You sit out of church for years for seeing liars, come back, and this is what you see all over again. Not good. Not good at all. All I see is mockers everywhere.
FOLLOW THE MONEY!!! Whoever starts losing "the money" will adjust their attitude.
"And I don't think the SBC will defend him as much as you think, if this does get to be a major news story.
"
Who do you think the Barbers, Lumkins, Tim R and the 'Volf' take their cue's from? You don't actually think they 'think' for themselves, do you. They have been trained how to think from the master spinner.
Barber is a trustee at SWBTS. They are loyal Lt's. Have you noticed their defenses of Caner are nothing but ad hominem?
Their defense is to make fun of bloggers pitting them against the late great Jerry Falwell. That is a defense?
Falwell approved Caner so that means we have to be dumb ignorant and of course, "unChristlike".
(Funny how they do not see that in themselves)
BTW Interestng historical fact: Did you all know that Akin was one of Patterson's protege...even used to teach Patterson's SS class at FBCDallas and was considered a real hot head in defending Patterson's job at Criswell College ( Criswell was trying to oust him)
The threads are so deep in the SBC mess that the only way to clean it up is to withhold money from both the churches and the CP. Why do folks insist on paying for the lifestyles of these celebrities, I will never know. They can't afford to send more missionaries out but Patterson travels the world. Same with the rest of them.
How are Brunson and Gaines any different?
Possibly A Sleeper?
Have you read " UNLEASHING THE BEAST " by Perry Stone, Jr?
See page 82.
Islam's Secret Spiritual Strategy Against America :
The goal of many Muslim men is not to just marry an American woman, but to marry a Christian woman. A higher goal is to marry the daughter of a Christian pastor and have children through her. Certain Islamic groups will provide secret financial support to a Muslim man who can marry a pastor's daughter. The reason: with a Muslim son in law, the minister will feel intimidated about supporting Israel or debating Islamic religious beliefs, for fear of offending his daughter and son in law.
WD: Your comment that current leaders are preaching "hell fire and brimstone " basically only to their critics, is right on... I don't hear any "hell fire and brimstone" against sin being preached anywhere today. If there was preaching against sin: 1. Many would brand themselves. 2: Lost people would be getting SAVED. Anyone remember when preachers actually preached against sin and people got Saved? But then they would have to preach about Jesus, right?
I have glanced at all of this but have am not sure I found the direct claim of Caner that he was a hardened terrorist. I know it was on the Waldrep (?) website but was it something Caner did or was it Waldrep? Just curious and don't want to go through all the postings to find it, ok I'm lazy. Is there a posted serman we can hear it? John Jones
His bio is no longer on his website: just a 404 error. Interesting.
Alpha & Omega Ministries Apologetics Blog [James White] > Caner Debacle Gaining National Attention.
Some things just don't go away by ignoring them, spinning them, or yelling louder that your critics are meanies. Ergun Caner's myth-making is becoming more widely known despite the wall of silence he, and evidently, the leadership at Liberty, are hastily attempting to erect.
Give it up, please. Caner has won. He IS the SBC poster boy.
Grace and Truth to You [Wade Burleson] > The Silence of Southern Baptists Shall Become the Shame of Southern Baptists.
Dr. Ergun Mehmet Caner, President of Liberty Seminary in Lynchburgh, Virginia has been caught in a web of deception of his own making.
What I am wondering about is the silence of Emir Caner during this whole episode. Does anyone know if he has done anything in the background to ever rein in Ergun?
Keith April 11 5:40...you are the only one I see who is even coming close to thinking what Im thinking.
Wait for the next book..."How I Played the Christian World for a Bunch of Suckers" by current Jihadist Ergun Caner.
Do I mean that? No. Has it crossed my mind? Yes. Maybe from watching too much 24, and movies like Body of Lies? Maybe from working with some people from Bangladesh who never seemed to have the same name, birthplace, etc each week? Yes. The facts changed each week.
Why don't people think that people from the Muslim world would be trying to infiltrate the Christian church? Are you just blind?
Oh, but I don't really mean the Caners, cause about the Caners I have no clue. Im just generalizing here.
And hey Ergun Caner, if you had just stuck with the facts, none of this would be happening. So when you blame the "bloggers", people like me who can't seem to understand the constant discrepencies between the Bible and the people in the pulpit, whose lives have been irrevocably altered by a liar in the pulpit, well, maybe you ought to flip that mirror around.
I know I have to flip the mirror everyday.
I mean Jihadi. (watched another movie)
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