No, the picture at left doesn't mean Johnny Hunt lost a contact lens on the platform. Rather, I suppose these men are falling "prostrate" as Mac Brunson prays.Mac Brunson had a good day, sort of, at the Southern Baptist Convention Pastor's Conference Day 1.
His nominee for the 2011 SBC Pastor's Conference President position was elected by the messengers - good for Mac. The Florida Baptist Witness said Mac gave a "rousing" nomination speech. It was "rousing" maybe a bit "angry", but his guy won! Go Mac!
And then he gave a passionate prayer for the passage of the Great Commission Resurrgence (GCR) in the evening - but not so good for Mac.
Below is the prayer, or at least part of it.
Two bloggers didn't appreciate the prayer, and even criticized and mocked his prayer on the Internet. Imagine that, other pastors criticizing another pastor's prayer!! How cruel!
One pastor, named "Steve", even accused Mac of faking his crying during the prayer - EGADs! A person claiming Mac is crying on cue.
Says "Steve" at his blog "A Fish Called Grace":
"Now, for the disappointing aspects of the evening. Again with the GCR. Lord, have mercy. These people are going to drive me bonkers. And shame on Mac Brunson for the fake crying. I mean, really. Dude. "
Then he goes on to mock Mac's prayer as though it was a shameless attempt to persuade people to vote for the GCR. The audacity of this guy!
Another blogger, Dave Miller at the more popular "SBC Voices" blog expressed similar thoughts about Mac's prayer, saying it was "unseemly" (my emphases below):
"I hate emotional manipulation and pressure tactics. They should not be necessary to anyone who is doing the work of God. If God is in something, if it is his will, the Spirit will move hearts to come in line. If the GCR is God’s will (as [Ronnie] Floyd clearly believes) he does not need to emotionally manipulate and pressure the messengers. Put the truth forward and trust the Holy Spirit to work in our hearts.
I was especially taken aback at something Mac Brunson said. He told us that the Task Force are the leaders of the convention on this issue. I inferred (and I do not think I am being unfair here) that he was saying that we should submit to the will of the Task Force and stop questioning the Report. I found it unseemly.
I have argued strongly for the the GCR, but Floyd and Brunson’s pressure tactics and manipulation could have turned me off to the report if it went on much longer."
Seems the day of pastors licking the boots of the big boys is over, as with the Internet comes instant analysis and criticism from these bloggers.
You'll hear Mac beg God to forgive the pastors for "saying those things we should not have said."
Gee, whatever did he mean by that?
Brunson GCR Prayer from FBCJax Watchdog on Vimeo.
Who is this guy?
ReplyDeleteSeems the day of pastors licking the boots of the big boys is over, as with the Internet comes instant analysis and criticism from these bloggers.
ReplyDeleteYou'll hear Mac beg God to forgive the pastors for "saying those things we should not have said."
Gee, whatever did he mean by that?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Sorry for the sour grapes here but the picture of these high paying celebrity preachers bowing at the feet of Mac Brunson is nothing but a rerun performance - do you think any of them will suggest cutting their personal salaries to help in the declining budget? Don't think so. This picture had to be taken by one of the FBCJ paid photographers!
From my perspective Mac was praying to send a message the "messingers" who were not in attendance - that is to send a message back to those of us who blog on the Watchdog!
Hopefully we have sincere pastors in attendance who see through these men who fill the pulpit stage at this convention not for the glory of Christ, but for the love of their money and status.
BTW - it is the tithers who are paying for this grand performance
for the celebrity preachers to enjoy their stay in the fine hotels, eat in the fine restaurants and of course their travel expense. Wonder how they are going to solve their declining membership & budget problems - would say they have had a great run - it's over! :>)
I missed the 'tears'. Maybe that was the part I slept through.
ReplyDeleteIt's really hard to hear his heart when the words coming out of his mouth are in stark contrast to his actions. Surely his statement about the "words that should not have been said" were meant to be a blanket, public "Oops" for his public criticism of you, Tom. I suppose he wanted to let the group know that he is human, like in his Easter sermon. Didn't work for me. He is talking so much I can't hear what he's saying.
The whole prostrate thing on the floor was quite a show piece. It makes me ill. If humbling yourself is the point, don't do it on stage for me to see. Just humble yourself, in a humble way.
It all feels so icky. I think I'll go shower now.
Thank you for attending the annual convention of the SBC.
ReplyDeleteWEEEEEELCOME TO THE SHOW!!!
can you watch this somewhere? i know someone in that choir tonight??????
ReplyDeleteIt is really a sad commentary when we become the "Prayer Police."
ReplyDeleteDoes it honor God when your review a prayer like you do a movie
If you don't like Mac's prayer, pray your own prayer!
You could build a big house out of that wooden beam stuck in your eye!
found it! its also a sad day when people use prayer to push a political agenda like i just witnessed but thats just my opinion. ick. i might not be able to watch much of this stuff..
ReplyDeletecan you watch this somewhere?
ReplyDeleteWatch Live Here.
I think they are bowing, wanting a nomination to some committee!
ReplyDeleteMaybe again, they are bowing to MAc?
Correction:
ReplyDeleteThe above link was for the Pastor's Conference. This link, is for the SBC Annual Meeting.
Love the piano accompaniment Dr.Dog.
ReplyDeleteWhat's that all about.
This smells of a genuine manipulation!
The G.R.C. equates to More People = more money = richer preachers!!!
Wow Watchdog...you have turned from observer of church politics and broken ministers to become judge of a man's heart and his words before the Lord.
ReplyDeleteThis blog posting was a turn in a bad direction in my opinion. You can make your calls on accepted land, pedophilic criminals, false biographies, and bad judgment - but to make a call on a man's words before the Lord - that's an inmature decision.
There are many responders on this blog that would have called John a poser when he fell out before the Lord as a dead man, they would say the people who fell prostrate when Ezra read the scroll were fakers, and the elders around the throne were falling on their face for a show.
I think you have entered into some territory that shows the inmaturity of many on this blog - not all, but many. I am sad that this one was posted.
It's a dangerous thing to judge the heart of a man (preacher or not) as he comes before the Lord.
Todd S.
Todd S. - you are right, dangerous ground to judge a man's heart, isn't it? Yes, I know all about that, trust me.
ReplyDeleteBut this looks funny to me, two grown men in suits with their faces on the ground on a platform where 4000 people are watching them. That's all. No judging of their hearts. It looks like they are looking for a contact lens. Or kissing the ground. Or facing Mecca. I expect to see that on TBN or INSP - it's not something you see very often at the SBC.
It is funny! Lighten up Toddster!
Now if they are grandstanding, if they are bowing with their face on the ground for a show, and they never do this in their church or at home, but they do it as a public display of their humility...but I don't know that.
I just know it looks funny.
4000 watching them? Only those who refused to be in prayer with the task force would be looking around questioning the motives of those in prayer.
ReplyDeleteI spend many of my prayer times on my face before the Lord, at home and in church. If it looks funny, maybe it is because it such an unknown posture for some.
Thoughts from one who is not supporting the task force recommendation.
Ben Patrick
Like most who have commented on the latest episode of the "Big Mac" saga, I am amused and disgusted by his side-show antics. Seems like I remember Jesus talking about the folly of using prayer as a means of manipulation (Matthew 6:5-7). Of course, that doesn't matter to the GCR guys. Their theology abandoned the teachings of Jesus a long time ago. BTW have you seen the new FBC JAX Academy advertisement on local television? It features all these little white, shining faces joyously proclaiming: "We're Warriors for Christ." Can you imagine the national outrage if a mosque anywhere in this country featured an ad with a group of children saying "We're Warriors for Mohammed"? Just wondering.
ReplyDeleteWas Mac reading from a script?? Nice that he talks so nicely about those who will lead the convention. Seems to me he is talking about himself. No doubt he will have a big hand in what happens. I am so happy in the Lord as so sad about what i see in sbc.
ReplyDeleteOnly the Lord knows if Mac Brunson's prayer was from his heart, devoid of any personal agenda.
ReplyDeleteThe problem is the matter of "if your brother has anything against you, go first to your brother, make it right, and then come to My altar with your sacrifice" (of prayer). I am not a member of FBJAX nor do I know Brunson. All I know is what I've read on this blog site. If what I've read is true, Brunson has a lot of clean-up work to do before leading others in prayer. Character does matter to God and to those whom a person seeks to lead.
I have been a Christian for many, many years and the deterioration of the church is painful to watch.
God's people are hurt and are becoming cynical because of the shenanigans of those who are supposed to be leading them spiritually. They are weary of it all and now there is a backlash. Prayer is indeed needed but faith without works is dead. Those prostrating themselves before the Lord at the SBC need to get off their knees and take care of the sin that is in their "camp".
That is a sign of true humility which God will honor.
" I am sad that this one was posted.
ReplyDeleteIt's a dangerous thing to judge the heart of a man (preacher or not) as he comes before the Lord."
Todd S.
Dear Todd,
Pass your message on to Mac Brunson and his A Team here in
Jacksonville . . .they are the purest of judges of men's hearts, thats why people are leaving the downtown church!
This article is no sad post - we all have ears to hear for ourselves. Mac's on a Mission, sent by himself!
Anon: 1:15PM
ReplyDeleteI enjoy reading this blog because of people like you who come along and confort our hearts when we read words like you just penned. Very thoughtful and so full of truth!
They are Muslim Jihadists, trained in a Madrassa, born in Istanbul, raised in Cairo then Sweden who learned how to speak English by watching the SBC Convention on the Internet.
ReplyDeleteOh wait, that story is already taken
So Anon 3:18,
ReplyDeleteYou are telling me that Mac Brunson has judged you based on your posture of prayer? That he has slandered you personally for praying for missions, evangelism, and the church? Is that why I should send him my posting?
Watchdog, I'm not that serious of a person - but to post a blog and video on the posture of a man praying (again, you and I both could reference multiple biblical references when men and women fell on their faces in prayer and in awe of God).
I like reading your blog periodically because it reminds me that my trust should be in God not man, it reminds me that we live in a fallen world, and that preachers and laity like you and I deal with the flesh and our own brokeness and pride.
But again, I urge to take this blog posting off, I think you've gone too far, as have some comments on this particular one. Just because man judges on the outside and God judges the heart does NOT mean we are supposed to be judging on outside appearances.
Todd S.
Correction:
ReplyDeleteAnon: 1:15 (Meant 1:51 PM - wrong time typed)
I enjoy reading this blog because of people like you who come along and confort our hearts when we read words like you just penned. Very thoughtful and so full of truth!
June 15, 2010 3:24 PM
"But again, I urge to take this blog posting off, I think you've gone too far, as have some comments"
ReplyDeleteSomeone said the above and I had to laugh because I couldn't help but be reminded of the front page comments Brunson made in the public newspaper not to long ago about the Watchdog being called a sociapath.
Oh well, to each their own opinion.
Look at all that Crazy-Making onstage. And you tell me this isn't a cult?!
ReplyDeleteHow do we know this is not real? Brunson has never repented for the evil back room stuff he did to you. He has hardened his heart.
ReplyDeleteYes, his "prayer" was unseemly. But more than that, it was a tactic and that is simply low down. It is more evidence our convention is totally lost. There are too many Mac's in it.
I am sure all this emotional stuff plays well at FBCJax. It plays well at BBC, too. It is a manipulation tactic from 'orators'.
"Wow Watchdog...you have turned from observer of church politics and broken ministers to become judge of a man's heart and his words before the Lord.
ReplyDelete"
Nope. Just connecting the dots of ACTIONS over the past few years. What is in the heart ALWAYS comes out.
Anon 5:29,
ReplyDeleteI think as Believers, it can't be just "Oh well, to each their own opinion" as you so stated. As followers of Christ, called to act justly and love mercy - you can't just chalk it up to "oh well"
If Mac Brunson were running this blog, I would challenge him to be a Godly man and a peace maker, but since he doesn't post on here I can only encourage my brothers and sisters on this blog to live a life worthy of the calling.
So many, too many posters on here are writing such divisive things, such hurtful things. And most of the time the response to admonishment is "Go tell that to Brunson!" Really? That's your defensive??
Watchdog, I imagine your children have seen you and your wife on your knees praying before...I hope that the bloggers have been on their faces before the God of Heaven before - why is that such a strange thing for you and others to observe on the video. Certainly you have been seen on your face before the Lord, yes?
Todd
watchdog...they really weren't kneeling there for mac brunson, they were praying to God. I do think maybe this post wasn't the best....but I do understand that if this pastor would actually apologize to you for calling you names in the newspaper this might be a lot easier prayer to hear. He's the PASTOR, not you. I don't think its really funny to laugh at a prayer, even if you think the guy is the most colossal hypocrite in the world. The guys behind him were praying to God so the humor there ain't the best. I know what these pastors do can destroy you as a person, but don't let it.
ReplyDeleteBut this looks funny to me, two grown men in suits with their faces on the ground on a platform where 4000 people are watching them. That's all. No judging of their hearts. It looks like they are looking for a contact lens. Or kissing the ground. Or facing Mecca.
ReplyDeleteOnly one could have been facing Mecca, so scratch that.
Was Mac reading from a script??
Yes, clearly. It was tucked inside his open Bible and he was reading it.
Watchdog, I'm not that serious of a person - but to post a blog and video on the posture of a man praying (again, you and I both could reference multiple biblical references when men and women fell on their faces in prayer and in awe of God).
You know, Todd, ordinarily I would agree, but you apparently missed the part of the video that preceded this one. Mac specifically instructed all present to assume those positions. He added that if someone wasn't physically able to kneel or bend like that it would be acceptible for them to remain seated, but there was nothing spontaneous about it. They were simply following orders. No one is judging whether or not the people there were sincerely praying. As for Mac, we've seen this show before.
There are actual people who WANT for these guys to be their PASTORS?? OK . . .
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete... and Mac says the Watchdog is nuts?
ReplyDeleteSome clarification, from my perspective.
ReplyDeleteI guess it would help if I directed you to the comments, huh?
ReplyDeletehttp://reallivepastor.blogspot.com/search/label/SBC
Thanks!
Mac specifically instructed all present to assume those positions. He added that if someone wasn't physically able to kneel or bend like that it would be acceptible for them to remain seated, but there was nothing spontaneous about it. They were simply following orders. No one is judging whether or not the people there were sincerely praying. As for Mac, we've seen this show before.
ReplyDeleteJune 15, 2010 10:57 PM
Thank you for making it clear this was no spontaneous response to the Holy Spirit but MAC inspired and led. And, we have seen this show before! Yes, we have.
I get very nervous when I see people attribute things to the Holy Spirit that are not. Please, folks, be careful what you believe. Do not mock. Blaspheming the Holy Spirit is serious business.
It is hard for folks to let go of their idols. They might be required to seek Christ alone without the big leaders telling them what to believe. It is like weaning babies off bottles.
That was a good sermon Mac brunson just preached. I listened to the whole thing. Don't like some stuff he does, but that was a good sermon.
ReplyDeleteWell, gotta go back to my gosh awful outdoor job. Thats the end of listening to SBC for this year.
I really do know how to spell "acceptable."
ReplyDelete:-)
I would think it difficult to "see" the manipulation based on reading a blog or watching a sermon online. But listening to him week after week, you'd have to be blind not to pick up on it. It's definitely there!
ReplyDeleteI would think it difficult to "see" the manipulation based on reading a blog or watching a sermon online. But listening to him week after week, you'd have to be blind not to pick up on it. It's definitely there!
ReplyDeleteIf you people reading this and agreeing of even hating are Christians....I am sorry for you.....Mac Brunson as much as I disagree with Him is still a man and SO ARE FRICKIN YOU... so get over yourselves and quit judging a man who is tryng to make a difference....
ReplyDeleteMaybe those two guys were doing a Watchdog interpretive dance.
ReplyDelete:)