Yesterday we were treated to two masterful performances by Mac. In the morning service he gave us another tongue lashing that was one of the best (worst) that we've had. No grace. No love. Just a beating to tell us how we needed to stop being hypocrites and talking behind each others' backs, that in these difficult days more than ever we need to give our tithe, our time, and our talent (and get up out of our lazy boys), and he again complained of our displeasure over small groups by saying he was going to FORCE us into small groups, and it MUST be done so that we can apply scripture. "Love each other, darn YOU!!" was the message Sunday morning.In the morning, we got angry Mac. It was the "You'll do what I want you lazy, recalcitrant sheep, and you WILL like it " Mac.
But in the evening, we got "cry over the grace of God" Mac.
Red hot anger in the morning. Sorrowful, crocodile tears in the evening.
Watching Mac Sunday was like watching the transformation of Michael Corlioni from the soft spoken, shy young man early in Godfather I and then fast forwarding to see Michael transformed into the ruthless family leader who ultimately turns on his own family members in Godfather II....Mac shows us two opposite sides. Is it Mac, or is it Mac performing for us? Is he a performer like Al Pacino that can play one role in the morning and come back in the evening and play another role?
After watching Mac Brunson Sunday night cry and weep like a baby over God's grace as he read out of the book of Genesis to show us just how tender hearted he is, while that morning Mac showed NO grace whatsoever, I realized something very profound. I've known for sometime he is less of a preacher and more of a performer, but I couldn't quite put my finger on something. Watching Mac "perform" in his sermons in this manner I've always felt like it was something I'd seen before. There was a strange familiarity with Mac's obnoxious style. But I knew Vines and Lindsay didn't bounce and jump and bob and weave all over the platform. I knew that they didn't constantly contort their faces, rub their eyes and forehead, yell and scream, take the glasses off and put them on and stare us down and amen themselves....so where is this "deja vu" feeling coming from as I've watched the Mac Brunson Show for 2 1/2 years? All my life I've listened to preachers who stood mostly behind a pulpit and calmly spoke. They exegate the scriptures - for the purpose of teaching and edifying their sheep. I could concentrate on what they were saying, thinking about what they were saying, and not having to watch a guy do "preacher gymastics" while I also am processing his message.
But watching Mac cry Sunday night I immediately knew where I had seen this sort of theatrical, emotionalism preaching.
Jimmy Swaggart.
If you go back and look at Jimmy Swaggart in his prime, he was the same kind of theatrical preacher that Mac is today, with maybe a few more moves than Mac. Swaggart never stood still. He had to move about. His face would be twisted and contorted as he preached. His eyes would squint, and then they'd peer. He'd be up on one level of the platform, and down, then up again. He'd whisper one minute, and projecting his booming voice across the auditorium the next. He'd "strut". There was an aire of arrogance about Swaggart- nothing humble about Swaggart's tone or delivery. He often spoke very condescendingly to his audience. He was "the man" up on the stage, and he was going to give you his sermon as a performance, as an actor. And his people LOVED IT! They would hoot and holler as he was "working" the auditorium.
Swaggart was a Bible preacher, but that wasn't his main gig. Swaggart's schtick was he was a great theatrical orator. He would take one scripture and chase rabbits, and make his points. Very little explanation of scripture, it was more the use of scriture as a springboard into what his points were that he wanted to make. Mac is similar in that he loves history, and loves to use the his Greek interpretations and historical illustrations to springboard from his bible text into his points.
And nobody could cry on cue like Swaggart. Swaggart knew the power of a tear. He knew that Christians respected someone as very spiritual if they wept publicly over Jesus, or over lost people. Mac doesn't do it much, maybe a few times he has gotten choked up. But Sunday night was classic. I have never before seen a man in front of an audience of thousands openly weep...then yell, then yell and weep in the same sentence. I am certain only an actor can do that.
Below is Mac's crying performance if you missed it, along with examples of his less "grace-ful" side. Tomorrow I'll post some thoughts on just what is it about Mac's preaching that leaves so many of us with a spiritually empty feeling.
110 comments:
And of course, you are the king of Charleton's being one yourself and all. So, I guess if it was an act, you would be the authority on it.
This is an absolute disgrace. You should be ashamed of yourself. You are making FUN of your PASTOR!! I don't care if you don't agree with him. The fact of the matter is that you would rather sit around and complain and outright SIN against God's word rather than finding yourself another place to worship. Romans 13:1-2 says: "Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that WHICH GOD HAS ESTABLISHED. The authorities that exist have been established by GOD. Consequently, he who REBELS against the authority is rebelling against what GOD has constituted." I don't give a rip if you don't agree with the way the "Pastor Serch Committee" was organized or wasn't organized. I don't care if you don't like the way that Brunson was voted in, and I surely could care less if you don't like that his wife is on the payroll. That needs to be left to the Lord to deal with. Brunson wouldn't be there if God didn't want him there. That's what the scripture says. If you can't submit to the authority of your pastor, then you need to leave and go elsewhere. It's a free country. I hope that Brunson figures out who you are and drags you in front of the church to expell you from the membership. This is absolute disrespect to a man that God has placed in authority over the body of believers at FBC Jax. If you can't accept that, just repent and LEAVE!!!
And before you make personal attacks on me rather than DEAL with what the scripture says... I am NOT a member of FBC and I don't even live in Jacksonville... so please spare the remarks about me being one of his croneys coming on here to belittle you. Read scripture my friend and GET RIGHT with God!!
No personal attacks anon. Just my sympathies.
Heartfelt Crying:
For most of my half century church going I have seen much heartfelt crying. Of course there has been some shock effect crying. You know like cry then shock you with some word of God that convicts you.
Then came those preachers who could cry one minute then suddenly continue on with the message as if the crying feelings were never there.
Then came the acting. The first time I saw Mac cry it was a shock to me. I can't remember the story
but I can remember that I was struck by the feeling that the crying was a fake. After this I began to notice the rants and theatrics. Then there were STAGE EFFECTS. Remember the BAGS THAT WERE BROUGHT ON STAGE WHEN MAC HAD THE BAGGAGE SERMON.
Then there were the AGENDA SERMONS.
But before all of this was the deceptions and the outright LIES.
We will never believe this story teller again. He is one story/lie after another.
I'm sorry churchmembers I know you want Mac to be honest and Godly, but he just is not.
Can he change? Certainly! If he returns to Jesus. Unfortuneatly, he is too market driven and may never get back to his calling.
Pray for him. He has lost his way!
anon 9:50
You are so transparent it is not even funny...
The ones I spoke with about the performances yesterday were taken in WD...it was effective. You have to give Mac his props...he has the bully pulpit and he will use it to manipulate, tug @ heartstrings, cry, sob, yell...all in the name of Jesus to his ultimate conclusion...taking a once dynamic, growing, soul-winning, loving, giving church to one that will eventually be all about self...
There are members who still think that Honey is not a paid staff member...she is simply "helping" Dr. Brunson, of course with an office etc...but she is doing it like Mrs. Lindsay and Mrs. Vines - out of love for the church.
If Dr. Brunson loves us so much why must he constantly tear us down? We have given him about everthing he wanted. Why is he so angry? It is interesting that people comment about how when he delivers a non-angry or condemning message that they will say "his message was good today" indicating that there are others that are "not good today."
anon 11:49 - I like your way of thinking. Please send your wife and daughter over to my private office for some "one on one counseling with God's man" and please make your check payable to First Baptist Church of Jacksonville.
Tee hee hee...it is GOOD to be the KING!
anon 9:50a.m. - look up the definition of charlatan please. By definition, the WD is not, and can not, be a charlatan. Life is simple for you isn't it? Always stay cool and you will go far. Don't ever change. Have a great summer. See you next year!
anon 11:49 here again... Sympathies FOR WHAT? You aren't going to tell us why you blatantly deny the Word of God here on this blog?
anon 12:00... 11:49 here again... I'm still WAITING for someone to respond to the truths of Romans 13....
Anon 11:49
God did not establish Mac as an authoritarian to rule over this church. He did that all by himself. Yesterday's SS lesson from Romans scripturally outlined those to whom we are directed to respect and obey, and under what circumstances. The scriptures are sufficient for members to discern for themselves the direction and obedience expected from every individual from a spiritual and moral basis.
Authority, Yes: Dictatorship, No!
Anon 11:49
"Only two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
--Albert Einstein
From anon 11:49 "Brunson wouldn't be there if God didn't want him there".
And Hitler would not have been in power if God didn't want him there.
How can you be so spiritually lacking in not knowing many pulpits today are filled with wolves and red-riders better be on guard.
Two outstanding messages on Sunday by Dr. Brunson! No act, just great preaching straight out of the Bible! For those readers that were not there, Sunday night's message was based on Genesis 43:23-34. It pertained to guilt and the idea that Joseph's brothers were burdened by guilt because of what they had done to Joseph. In spite of their cruel sin against him, Joseph had compassion and was very gracious. He showed that he still cared about and loved his brothers. When you read and study this Scripture you see God's love and grace expressed through the life of Joseph. Dr. Brunson was affected by the great meaning of these verses and was not performing! Those were real tears that showed a true sense of thankfulness for God's grace. He asked us,"Do you ever stop to think about what God can do to you?" God's promise of forgiveness and mercy is certainly something to cry tears of joy for!
Comparing Dr. Brunson to Swaggart is truly out there. Unimaginable!
To honestly try to convince people that there is any similarity between the two takes great acting skills. I was in that service and sensed the presence of the Holy Spirit and witnessed a sermon that was a blessing, not an impressive show. Thank God for such a powerful,heart-felt message about grace that most of us were blessed by last night!
On Inaguration Day, a new President will be sworn into office. I've heard countless people claim that Senator Obama is sent straight from the pits of hell to the White House. You know what??? Even if you don't agree with him, you have to submit to his authority. Why?? Because God's word says so. I was sitting here WAITING for someone to claim that God didn't put Mac in Authority and that he put himself into Authority. What?? are you now GOD?? The scripture says clearly... he who is in authority is put there BY GOD!!! A pastor is in authority/leadership over a church. Just because you don't like his leadership style it doesn't give you any right to then make the claim that God didn't put him there, so it's okay for you to not follow him. That's not what the Bible says!!
Anon 11:49 you said: "I hope that Brunson figures out who you are and drags you in front of the church to expel you from the membership".
"Drags you in front of the church"; wow, wouldn't that a be a christian, loving scene for the world to see (and it would be recorded). Perhaps then EVERYONE would recognize Brunson's true character. And, yeah, lots of folks would be saved by watching the saint throw the sinner into everlasting damnation.
Wasn't Mac's sermon 2/3 weeks ago on Sunday night also about Joseph? I don't remember any crying then!
Anon 12:23--I haven't stated ONCE that everything Brunson is doing is okay. Personally if I were a member there, I would have left upon knowing that IMAG advertising space was being sold to corporations. I think that's wrong on a multitue of levels. However, that's the key... I would have spoken to my spouse and we would have decided together when to pack it in. You people instead choose to sit on here and complain and quite frankly insult Brunson. You may not like it but yes, according to the scripture Brunson and even Hitler wouldn't have been in authority had GOD not put them there. I can't answer for why GOD allows some people to take a position of authority and it becomes a negative experience or that person is abusive. That's an age old question that could be another blog within itself. The point I am trying to make that you people STILL don't seem to get is that GOD put him there. End of story... and if you don't like it--THEN visit one of the HUNDREDS of other churches in Jax. There are plenty that you would probably find satisfaction with. And comparing anyone to HITLER is a stretch... IMHO.
11:49 anon friend we have used scripture to respond to christians on this blog. It is very difficult to come to this blog and see what is going on here at FBCJAX.
Mac Brunson is the problem. He is a Rick Warren SHEEP displaying himself in WOLVES CLOTHING. He is covert in his mismanagement in God's house.
We know scripture and thank God for it. Listen, if we used the scripture that revealed Mac for what he truly is, there would not be enough space to post here.
Anon 11:49 "I am NOT a member of FBC and I don't even live in Jacksonville"...
But WD is a member and does live in Jax. and has every right to blog as he pleases.
You silly phrase "LEAVE" is quite annoying and redundant.
Why blog? Why not leave? Aren't I sinning by blogging?
I don't have an answer for Romans 13. Not one that would satisfy anyone who thinks I'm committing the unpardonable sin by blogging about abuses at my church, so I won't try. I'll answer it like this: I see great wrong and harm being done at my church, and I'm not going to shut up and go away. Others might do that, and decided to "submit to authorities" or say "let God handle it", and that is fine. And I will likely do that at some point...but for now, I choose to inform and oppose the wrong at my church in this fashion. I'm just a blogger who is blogging about the things I see wrong at my church. It just so happens, unlike most blogs that get zero to little readership, that there is a wide readership. There is great interest in what is discussed here. Interesting, isn't it? I don't claim to be doing God's will here, and perhaps my blogging is an affront to my God. However I am not going to shut up when I see abuses at my church. Can't you let God deal with me? Why must you try to deal with me?
Let me explain it this way: blogging can be a good thing. Mac himself admitted 2 months ago in a meeting with the men of the church that when people oppose us, or speak against us, or slander us, we must acknowledge that perhaps, PERHAPS Mac said....that God is using our opposition to teach us something. Does this blog take God by surprise? No.
Can this blog teach Mac something? I think so.
Can this blog inform people at the church and other Christians who love the Lord and love FBC Jax about what is happening? Maybe.
11:29
The scriptures do tell us to obey those in authority; however, we are directed to take a stand when those in authority act, say and do things that are spiritually wrong according to an individuals opinion, if they are grounded in the word. Yes, respect and obey unless there is a spiritual divide that diametrically opposes your belief in right and wrong according to your acceptance of God's word.
Anon 11:49 Nov.17,2008.........It's one things to read and qoute scripture and quite another thing to interpet and understand it.Rom.13 is not referring to church authority,but to the governmental authority.Since when does the Pastor bear a "SWORD IN VAIN"[Rom.13:4]? Well WITH BRUNSON ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE.THAT MIGHT BE HIS NEXT ABUSIVE MOVE IS TO THREATEN ALL THE RECALCITRANTS WITH DEATH BY SWORD!!..Better yet since you yourself are a Bible scholar please explain to us ignorant bloggers so that we are not decieved by this charlatan Dr.Watchdog,what is the Apostle Peter warning us about in 2Peter chap.2?!!..Secondly what was one of the problems that causes the Lord Jesus to condemn the Church at Thyatira over(CLUE Rev.2:20)?....Thirdly what was the need of the Apostle Paul to warn the Ephesus Elders about in Acts 20:28-31?....What does the Lord Jesus Christ warn about in Matthew 24:5,11,24?.....Fourly what does the writer Luke commend about the Bearens in Acts 17:11?....Finally what is the meaning of the warning from the Lord Jesus Christ half-brother Jude?[Jude 1-4]?....We reprobates against Pope Brunson wait to hear your great wisdom with bated breathe!!!!!!
Cry me a river! Cry me a river! I've cried a river over what has happened to this church. I am a long time member and I can tell you the events here and the treatment that some have received are very painful to endure. Make no mistake about it this is no longer a God led church!
This church is ripe for a dictator and it looks like it has one. I am sorry but the term charlatan fits this dangerous man. But if I know one thing when a person or people WANT to believe a thing, others can't persuade them otherwise. That's what has happened here with the "followers" and the "ignorant". They don't want to be told anything, they KNOW it all. So let them have what they want, they have to learn the hard way. The question is after Mac has his "run" here can the church recover from the damage that is being inflicted. I think there will be too many "deep seated" scars left to recover from.
As to the angry person telling us off that doesn't live or attend here, the same one telling us to leave, buzz off buster we don't need your input. One says just "leave it all to the Lord". Don't these idiots see that the Lord uses people in correcting things He wants to correct. What about all of the Old Testament prophets, and Moses Aaron, Abraham, and on and on. God uses people, get it. The statement that Mac wouldn't be here if God didn't want him here: I would say, what about Jim Jones, Jim Bakker, Jimmy Swaggart. God does remove his spirit when people are determined to go their own way, rather than follow His leading.
I would like to imagine what would happen if Dr. Lindsay could meet face to face with Brunson now. I think there would be real tears shed by Brunson then. As Lindsay would never in a moment tolerate the stuff going on now. Lindsay was your last great preacher! He was the real deal, the rest are agenda driven (theirs). And you who have brought Brunson here and allowed him to ruin this church have your equal share in the downfall of this church.
To the rest of us watching this: continue to pray and ask God to help us find a way out of this and what He would have us do.
Thanks Watchdog for keeping us informed.
Jim Jones told the people in his congregation the same things about "God putting him in his position" and that they should "trust and obey" God by trusting and obeying Jim Jones and his authority. Yes, many people left and some even wrote anonymously to try and get outside help from the press and congress. Yet, hundreds stayed...and died. Go tell their relatives and loved ones about how their dead did the right thing by humbly and obediently following the man,"God's man", that God put in authority over them. They did ust like the Bible teaches. And all those Germans did the right thing by following Hitler since God put him in position too. And how many of those little boys and girls at Trinity did the right thing by submitting to Bob Gray's authority as founder of Trinity Baptist while he abused them sexually, and those teenage girls that let Daryl Gilyard satisfy his sexual needs with them were just following what the scripture says, right?
No wonder religion is so profitable! You people GIVE your children, bodies and money to a MAN and think you are serving God. No need to sell you anything or to even compete for your dollars. Just tell you to "give it, in two weeks" and you will. Wow. I am feeling called to start a church. No wait, that would involve real work and years of commitment, I need a mega church I can take over or get someone to pay to put me on a TV ministry.
Wake up! The man is a charlatan. Can't you see it?
If the WD blog does nothing else, at least the next unsuspecting, big budgeted church will not be able to say they had no way of knowing what Team Brunson had done before and will most certainly do again.
If you churches want what Dallas and FBC had, and can pay as dearly, then "call him" to preach. But read the blog first, including the comments from those in Dallas.
No thanks!
Anon 11:56, what is so transparent about me? Please elaborate?
Anon 12:04, yes life is pretty simple for me. I like the church I attend, like the city I live in, like my job, don't try to find evil abound in everything my pastor or other pastors do. Yes it is. Btw, it's fall. Anything else you want to know about me?
Oh, and here's the definition:
A charlatan (also called swindler) is a person practicing quackery or some similar confidence trick in order to obtain money or advantage via some form of pretence or deception.
Now I don't know about you, but I believe anyone who attends a church they have no use for the leadership in, is using that as their means to blog namelessly about it until the pastor, leadership, etc is either removed or do things the way HE thinks they should do them, regardless of if the majority feel a different way or not.
Yeah, I think that would pass with the above definition. Thanks and you have a wonderful day yourself.
Do you honestly believe that a "charleton" blogger could cause the removal of a pastor from one of the largest churches in our country? Really? How feasible is that?
If Mac by chance DOES leave, would it be said it was because of a blogger, or would it be the actions brought to light by the blogger?
Hmmmm...
Anon 11:49
Glad you have it so good. About your job, must me a night shift since you blog during the day, or are you on company time?
Did someone post that many members of FBCJ do not know Debbie Brunson is a paid employee? How does a salary like that gone unknown? I would imagine her salary is more than a lot of common folk who pay their tithes make!
Anon 1:39pm Nov.17,2001.......Just because the majority of the people think something is right or alright does not mean it's RIGHT...Jesus stated that the road to destruction is wide and the majority of the people were on it[Matt.7:13]...Jesus also said that MANY are called but few are chosen(guess the kills the majority is right thinking HUH).I'm sure the majority thought Noah was a fool just before it began to rain and only 8 people survive(Gen6-9)...Just before the majority in Sodom and Gomorrah went up in flames they probably thought Lot was and idiot and only three people escape with their lives(Gen.19).Crowd mentality will many times get you in touble you think??????
Probably many know she is an employee.
No one knows her salary.
And no one knows her title and job responsibilities...or what her vacation time is.
That is proof positive of nepotism: a new guy comes in, creates TWO NEW JOBS...and guess what...it just so happens that the two people BEST qualified for those jobs are his wife and son. Imagine that.
"Team Brunson" = "First Brunson Church of Jacksonville"
And you ain't seen nuthin' yet.
Why isnt there accountability for positions, salaries, etc as it relates to the church staff. From a business perspective, that information is disclosed at the appropriate level. At FBCJAX it appears to be "hidden". So who approves the budget, spending, salaries..? Not the people, but yet the people are expected to pay for it.
The deacons NEED to demand full disclosure. WOW you think congress has no accountability or disclosure, you aint seen nuthin until you are at FBCJAX.
Wow, some of these comments make it crystal clear how these guys can be are so successful. By the time some folks figure it out, the wolves will be preying on their next group of trusting sheep.
anon - regarding your definition of charlatan...how does the WD "obtain money" by way of blogging? Did I miss something. Are people paying him to read this blog? And if so, do they do so under the pretense that they are giving to God? If so, then you may be right, he may be a charlatan too! Imagine that. A charlatan blogger. As long as my preacher is not a charlatan, I don't think I'll worry about any charlatan bloggers, though. What about you? Which concerns you more?
(I sign my yearbooks in the spring and that is what I write - stay sweet, good luck next year, have a good summer.)Ah, the simple life.
Authority: Authority is granted either by the BULLET or the BALLOT. Whoever has the most guns wins in a dictatorship while in a democracy the higher number of votes is declared the winner unless there is some "stuffing" going on. Have you not read Acts 5:28-29? Saying, Did not we straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name?and behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man's blood upon us. Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
Following man rather than God will disappoint you every time. Here's a question for you. If God put Lincoln, McKinley, and Kennedy in office who removed them?
Anon 11:40
further to Anon 12:49
We must also understand that no matter what kind of government we find ourselves under, God's word makes it clear that we should support those who rule over us to the degree that they do not impose on us those laws which force us to disobey God's higher law, which is His word
The authorities are the civil authorities. The church made up of born again believers are to manifest themselves to be ambassadores for Christ. Their lifestyle is one of self sacrifice and having the ability to turn the other cheek. Remember Jesus told Peter one sword was sufficient against 600 Roman soldiers. Jesus did not need a sword as all of the soldiers fell backward at his word. He could have turned them all into a pile of ash if he so desired.
The pastor is to be a servant in the local church. He is to be blamelsss, kind, gentle, and to be a friend to everyone. If he isn't then he is not following the rules set down by the apostle Paul. Paul once destroyed men who followed Christ, however, after the Damascus Road experience he did everything he could to show he had become one with Christ and shed the flesh for the spirit. Its a real shame that some pastors still live in the flesh and not the Spirit.
WD and Mac - There have always
been true men of God and there have always been religious charlatans. How can we know if a particular religious teacher is genuine or just another phony con man? The only way we can know the truth is by COMPARING what they are TEACHING (and writing in their guidebooks) and PRACTICING to the Word of God. What is Mac practicing? As this blog has pointed out, he practices personal wealth building, family wealth building, branding of his name, marketing of the church, acceptance of $300K personal gifts, nepotism, legalism, etc.
So you tell me, does what he practice line up with the Word of God? Does it line up with his own words and deeds? Does it line up with his own pastor's guidebook?
The answer is NO! So why concern yourself with a blogger who points this out and not the religious charlatan in your pulpit spending over $1 million per month just to sustain himself and his ministry. And who earns over $30K every month. Open your eyes, use your common sense. Thanks.
"And the donkey talked..."
"And the iron did swim..."
"God called me here..."
"You must tithe..."
All easily believable phrases right?
Pauls' admonition that we as Christians should not devour one another appears appropriate to some of these statements. Just remember these three facts.
1. Jesus Christ sacrificed his flesh out of ultimate love for all mankind.
2. Jesus who owned it all became poor.
3. Jesus who is the highest in power gave it up for us.
Anon 2:56 Nov.17,2008pm.....Thank you for that decription of what a true a pastor is "A SERVANT" not a self-serving,pompous,abusive,and did I mention extremely greed charlatan!!!!!!
Anon 1:51 I have these things called breaks and lunches (most places do) at which time the company allows us to access the internet if we choose to.
Now, is there anything else you would like to know?
No, I do not believe you are going to cause the pastor to be fired. I have said before I think the majority who read it view it as entertainment. I know I do.
Oh and one more thing. Don't confuse all of your anon's. I posted at 9:50am and not again until 1:31pm. I was not posting between those times, until now when..well, I am on my last break.
As hard as this might be for you to believe, it looks like more than just I disagree with the blogger.
Did you teach your children and/or grandchildren to mock others who they think is bald or fat?
Do you share your blog with them?
You will say this blog is about Brunson but its says something about you and the way you confront people.
Will you tell me to grow up or extend sympathy to me instead of direct answers?
Anon 3:47
You are not alone. Dawg thinks he has hits from allover means support for him. All those hits could have been done by less than 10 people.
This post is crass, watchdog. Someday you are going to be crying real tears and nobody is going to believe you. It hurts when that happens, too. I guess you will find out.
FBC JAX YOU HAVE ALWAYS BEEN A TRADITIONAL CHURCH. RIGHT? RIGHT?
ASK YOUR MEMBERS. MOST OF THEM WOULD SAY DR. LINDSAY AND DR. VINES BELIEVED THAT WE WERE A TRADITIONAL CHURCH. You know PREACHING JESUS, VISITATION, SUNDAY SCHOOL, EXPOSITORY/KJV/. BAPTIST. Right? Right!
So your pastor retires and he tells the PULPIT COMMITTEE THAT, HE THINKS, YOU SHOULD BRING IN THIS GUY FROM SOMEWHERE; AND BY THE WAY, HE IS A CATHOLIC.
What! You must be out of your mind. We are not going to stand for that, you would say.
Well, what if your retireing pastor did not tell you that he was a CATHOLIC AND YOU VOTED THIS CATHOLIC TO BE YOUR PASTOR? After some time the more he preached and the longer he was here you began to realize that this guy really was a CATHOLIC. Now what?
Well churchmembers, FBCJAX is no longer a TRADITIONAL CHURCH AND YOUR PASTOR IS NOT A TRADITIONAL PASTOR. You are a PURPOSE DRIVEN NONDENOMINATIONAL CHURCH. Your retiring pastor and the pulpit committee did not tell you what you were getting. They lied to US. Most of the PD parts are in place.
Most that is except the small groups. Mac is having trouble with deploying the small groups into the sunday school.
Ask A. C. if he is going to turn his class into a SMALL GROUPS class. What do you think? Are those RICH GUYS GOING TO CHANGE. I don't think so. Nor will the old traditional members change. Why? Because they know it is not right.
You don't believe me. Look up small groups and Rick Warren on the Webb. See what you get. Then tell me if you still think you are a TRADITIONAL CHURCH.
So be not surprised when you see your pastor doing things that do not make sense to you. He is not what you expected. HE IS A BREED APART.
Just as I thought.
You ignored my question about you and your family. You don't want to show too much about yourself. You say you publish everything. Bull.
I hope your family loves you despite your hate rants.
This blog is about you.
What is amazing to me is why these people who so disagree with WD still continue to come out here and read and even POST comments. AMAZING!
What's is REALLY amazing you thibk that about a blog run by a guy who blogs about how much he disagrees with the leadership of his church. Leadership that isn't going anywhere mind you. Yet, he stays.
When he leaves, we will.
ANON 4:20
Dawg is my brother in Christ but we need to tell him that we don't agree with his actions
Hey! How many of you Brunson lovers are PURPOSE DRIVEN DEVOTEES?
Stand up and be counted. Let us see who we have here. Show us who you are.
Now of those PD ardent supporters, which one of you is a FBCJAX churchmember?
Just as I thought, you do not know do you?
Keep on sleeping SHEEP.
Anon 4:28
Your decision to leave or not is based upon the actions of a person you have never met?
I have a bridge to sell you.
Anon 4:05 - I like how you have questions for me. I won't answer them as I owe you no answers.
Please direct your questions about speaking ill of others to the pastor.
He is a preacher who slanders and lies and gossips from the pulpit.
And he speaks ill of us to others.
And he speaks to us as though we are stupid, ignorant people who don't know our Bible, as though we're all scared little sheep needing him to lecture us on how to have faith in difficult times.
I would direct your questions to HIM.
And while you're asking him...ask his wife about her gossip and slander that she does in staff meetings about people in the SBC IMB. OK?
Johnnie E: There's plenty of light. Shining the light on the words and actions of Mac.
I know you don't like that, and JV doesn't like that...but tough. If I weren't anonymous, do you think that would matter one iota of whether my opinions would be considered valid by you or Mac? Not a chance. You love it that this is anonymous, so you can avoid discussing the real issue and instead attack the anonymity.
You and he and other pastors don't have to like anoymous blogs. You'll have to get over it. Its something you'll have to just TRUST GOD about. You can't control it, you can't spin it, you can't hide it in the budget, you can't get your trustees to take care of it for you. You will just have to TRUST GOD.
And mega church pastors like Mac and Mark Cummins down in Ocala and going to have to stop abusing their churches else they will be blogged about.
Amen.
Guarddog,
you must be getting to the core of the problem here at FBCJ. The supporters of Brunson have been unleashed and they are coming after you.
Brunson must have told the Trustees to let you know that you WILL OBEY, be nice and go away.
It is ashamed that the FBCJ watchdogs have been muzzled or maybe they have just gone away. What a shame. Are there no bible discerners left at First Baptist Jacksonville, Florida?
Oh! I'm sorry, that is The Community Church at Jacksonville.
Anon 4:31 I have no opinion one way or the other about the so called Purpose Driven movement. Next issue?
Anon 4:28 what are you talking about? I believe you misunderstood what I said. I was responding to the person who commented that people who disagree with this blog still come here and post. My response was saying we will leave this blog when he leaves the church.
While we blog...only 13 more days until Mac gets that next paycheck from all of us for Thirty (30) thousand ($30,000) dollars, and his retirement pension goes up, and Debbie's check comes in, and Trey gets paid, and Maurilio gets paid.
So I agree, this blog is entertaining to Mac, Honey, Trey and Maurilio. Cha Ching!
Mac has both of his Sunday sermons posted at his www.inlight.org website.
Listen to yesterday mornings (2nd from the top)....he let's us have it over the small groups. What a power freak. My blood boils when I hear him treat his church so harshly...the same people that sacrifice and give so that he and honey can pocket between $30,000 and $40,000 EVERY MONTH from our church, he treats us like imbeciles. I really don't know if there are any men left in our church if they let a bully like that talk to them and their wives in a church service like that. At some point someone, some day is going to stand up in the middle of his abusive talk and rebuke him. It will happen. And there will be some that cheer for the rebuker. And Mac will demand that the rebuker be forcibly removed.
But I think I nailed it...he is the Jimmy Swaggart of the SBC. Its all about a big performance to intimidate and convince you through his forceful words and antics that you must submit to his will.
And the people LOVE IT.
Some, but not all. Not even the majority anymore.
anon - you mentioned A.C. I assume you refer to retired Judge A.C. Soud. The man is most likely the best layman Bible teacher anywhere. His SS lessons were biblical, challenging and applied to the men in his class. A man of integrity and close personal friend of Jerry Vines. How does he now take orders from Deb Brunson? How does he and his wife emcee the Night to Stand with Israel to promote his own personal investments? And how could he ever substitute small group time to replace his teaching? Amazing indeed. If only a man such as A.C. Soud would privately and respectfully ask some of these questions raised by the WD to Pastor Brunson, maybe we could avoid a financial disaster, debt and a church split. How about it Judge? Can you...will you...help us all get along?
Dr.Dog this is one of the only ten bloggers that come to youy site stating that just as the Bible has said over and over that in the last days MANY will depart from the faith;PERPETRATED BY HYPOCRITICAL teachers speaking lies who's consciences have been seared with a hot iron...As P.T.Barnum said "Theirs a sucker born every day" or something to that affect...It is sad to see people over look all of these inequities committed by Brunson yet they attack the messinger...These are the same kind of blind,thoughtless followers who would one minute cry Hosanna,Hosanna::Blessed is He that comes in the name of the Lord...Then several days laters led by their beloved preachers(Parisee's)cry crucify Him,crucify Him!!!Jesus is ever truthful when he said::Let them alone it's the blind(Brunson)leading the blind(Brunson defenders)they will all fall into a ditch.SAD!!!!!!
It is Written,
Interesting that you see Dog as Christ.
Are you sharing with your flock what you espouse here?
Hey, its be written:
You can be found unlike Dog.
You have revealed info about yourself more than anyone.
To call the moving of the Holy Spirit on a man's heart theatrical is insulting to the Lord Jesus Christ.
Why would you mock our Lord in this way? Why would you call what the Lord does theatrical?
So because some of us choose to challenge the blogger on his actions and attitudes as it pertains to his blogs about the pastor, we are "departing the faith?" I love the logic.
No Dog, there is darkness because you continue to refuse to post peoples words which you deem unfit. You keep the light coming your way under your basket of disappointment.
By the way, there is no "h" in my name. but i do appreciate you responding though you refuse to post what I said.
Some people attend FBCJ in order to get votes. You know who some of them are don't you?
How many of you remember the Elegy Ginger Soud wrote about the passing of Homer, Jr. It was most respectful, insightful and lovingly written. That was some time ago, but I am sure it can be referenced via recorded news.
How do you think Homer, Jr. would react to her husband's and her acceptance as to what is happening now at FBCJ. They need to ask themselves some very spiritual questions about the route FBCJ is and has been taking.
A word to the wise is sufficient.
It is written:
Thank you for your level headed reasoning and biblically sound discernment. You are one smart dude, and I appreciate your insight.
Anon 4:59 is that correct? 30 thousand a month? Outer Mongolia could be feed with that amount!
Here's hoping the Brunson's enjoy their country club dinner tonight, including Trey.
Anon 9:49 & 3:42
Your employer is quite generous with your breaks and lunch times. Seems to be more than most are privileged to.
Me thinks you hide behind the screen and deceive those that employ you. The company I worked for many years allowed Internet access, but for business purposes only; seems your personal agenda is being paid by your employer.
If I am wrong, let me know who your employer is and I will pose the question to them.
Well, there is Joel Estes again, pontificating from the corner of his ill-begotten realm. He is a pastor of a very small church in North Carolina who once posted he seldom participates in Internet dialogue, yet he is here again as well as other sites that no one wants to hear from.
Yeah, we've seen ole Jon on the Burleson blog!!
He gets upset if you don't know his first and middle name!
How scary is this? Anon 5:49 p.m. wrote: "Why would you mock our Lord in this way? Why would you call what the Lord does theatrical?"
Are you calling Mac "the Lord!" I believe you are! Either intentionally or unintentionally. WD has called Mac's crying theatrics and you ask him why he call what the LORD does theatrical. Hear me...it was Mac that cried, not the LORD! God help us all if we believe this way!
Anon - I would caution you not to meet privately with this pastor and be sure to guard your wallet. If you think ANY man is the Lord, then you SHALL be obedient unto him and he will take from you whatever pleases him. (sex or money usually)Catholics abused by priests can tell you what considering a man to be speaking for God gets you.
Though I hope everyone now sees the key issue of conflict on this blog. Your post perhaps illustrates the dilemma here best: To question Mac is to question the Lord God almighty Himself! Mac is Lord, according to your thinking. You said it, Mac believes it and operates as such, and the congregation thinks similary. Proof? They give to the Lord by giving to Mac. Collins gave to the Lord by giving to Mac. Wow. If Mac is the Lord, then you are all correct in your outrage and attacks on the WD and bloggers. This blog is evil and wrong because it blasphemes the Lord Jesus Christ himself...which is really Mac Brunson.
Only one problem...Mac did not die for my sins or yours. AND, our God is a jealous God and will not allow man to take his glory. Watch out mac and his idolators!!!
Anon 7:06
We will find you.
Hey Steve Wilcox - I assume based on your little comic strip over at Baptist Life that you're one of the Anons here.
Why not use your name here?
Anon 5:19pm I have learned from afar from great men of God such as Dave Hunt and Dr.John MacAuthur Jr...I teach the sheep that God has allowed me to shepherd like Peter commands in 1Peter 5:1-3 as equals..They are Christ sheep not mine,I am a fellow sheep of the GREAT SHEPHERD so I don't lord my position as Pastor over them...I'm willing to do anything around our church that is necessary for the ministry to operate smoothly...Jesus commanded that I as a leader am to be the greater SERVANT not to be served..As I have said before I value the input of all my Church family not selected ones..Dr.John Macauthur Jr.once said he has never seen a time in all of his ministry were people are so gullible to religious leaders..Dave Hunt warns over and over the type of men who have ascended to the pulpits driven by greed for money,power and prestige,they relegated the expostion of Biblical expostion for history,health,wealth,etc..And I'll say it again that anytime a man has to negotiate for a massive salary and perks to come to FBC Jax to preach;You have hired a HIRELING!!What would he(Brunson) have done if you had not paid him several hundreds thousand dollars;Would he have come for far less to preach the Gospel???Finally 5:19pm I teach the people God gave me to shepherd to be Beareans and to verify everything that I teach and anybody else against the truth of scpriture so as not to be lead astray as so many at FBC Jax have been!!!!!!.....Anon 5:26pm...Thanks for the warning or threat,which ever::As Dr.Dog has learned revealing the truth about and issue especially religious can evoke strong reactions..I have had to stand up to an errant Pastor before so I know the types of attitudes that accompany blind devotion to an authoritarian leader....Anon 5:26pm clearly believe me I can take care of myself!!!!!!
Anonymous said...
Anon 7:06
We will find you.
November 17, 2008 7:26 PM
Watchdog and others, what do you think this means?
Anon 7:26
Come on, find me out. Some of the staff at FBCJ will not be pleased with what I know, including Guinell Freeman and many others. I worked there, so I KNOW.
It is Written, I will say this (and I am not anyone you responded to, seems I need to come up with a handle of some kind so some people would rather worry about my employer paying me to blog or whatever) unlike some, and while I do not agree with most of what you say. I appreciate your kind spirit and adult way of presenting how you feel about issues.
These threats about "being found out, or exposed" is so immature. Come find me in Alaska, I'll let you ride one of the daily runs to the mail and Internet connection.
Anon ll:49 is so immature.
Yeah, I once was a member of FBCJ, so I offer my opinion.
One more thing..I remember Dr.Lindsay as a very very kind and approachable man and Pastor who taught me a great lesson in humility and what it is to be a Pastor inspite of the fact that he pastored one of the largest church's in America,and in all the years he pastored there was never a hint of this kind of NONSENSE that I see going in FBC Jax today..
Dr.Dog I see that the Pastor who's church building was burned down by a drug dealer has been rebuilt..Was this Pastor the one that FBC Jax was supposed help?..
Anon 5:26:
"It is written at 5:26 PM was so eloquent in exposition of the Word. Why do you deem it necessary to threaten exposure to someone you deem beyond reproach? You must surely know you are so lacking in biblical knowledge that you resort to threats of exposure of somewhat. Exposure to what? Are you a biblical guru or a technical guru wanting to hold accountable your perception of acceptability. If you misuse the technical avenues, you will be exposed for what you are and those you represent.
Don't try to intimidate, you are so lacking in so many areas; especially in recognizing God's will in a situation you are not a direct participant of.
Anon 11:49
"This is an absolute disgrace. You should be ashamed of yourself. You are making FUN of your PASTOR"!!
Pure and simple, high-school grammar!
Your post reveals your true identity? Trey would be so proud!
I have never heard of Jimmy Swaggart. Maybe, I'm a little behind the times.
However, I did attend this Sunday's service and thought our pastor did a great job with his sermons. Clearly, the Lord spoke through him and as a result delivered a great sermon. I don't think it was Theatrics. I think it was Theology in action.
Isn't every church driven by something--either by some personality in the church, or by its annual budget, or by its traditions, or by surrounding seekers, or by its biblical purpose? Aren't some things which could drive us better than some other things which could drive us?--From among them, isn't biblical purpose better than any of them? If so, what's wrong with being purpose driven? Not getting the criticism here.
Anon 10:15 have you studied about the PURPOSE DRIVEN MOVEMENT? Have you looked into what Rick Warren says in his books? If you haven't, maybe you should.
Warren and Hybells have changed biblical truth for something unbiblical.
"Warren's teaching gets people to focus on themselves{your worth, you significance}, and Scripture gets people to focus on God, and his great love tword mankind" Ephesians 2;4.
There is ample evidence to show that Warren twists scripture for his own purpose. From what he has written, he misleads countless souls.
Pragmatically his system does build churches. But what you have when you are finnished is not a called out assembly of body of believers in Jesus Christ, but a mixture of entertainment seekers who never get fed the Word of God. Basicly the church dies.
Watchdog has graciously allowed us to use his blog to inform FBCJAX and others of the great harm that the PURPOSE DRIVEN MOVEMENT IS DOING TO THE LORD'S WORD AND HIS PEOPLE.
Check it out brother. The Lord is coming soon.
Anon 10:15 I will save you some time. Look at this Rick Warren revelation.
WWW.atruechurch.info/rickwarren.html
Two thoughts:
1) For those who argue that God will handle any issues with Mac and that WD (or any other man) should just "step out of the way" (or leave or whatever) and leave it up to God, I would ask this: Do you not believe that God is using Mac to accomplish his will? And if you do, as you presumably do, is it completely unreasonable that God could be using WD (or others) to accomplish his will? The Bible does not say that God ONLY uses pastors... He uses all of us, and has always used men, pastors and non-pastors alike, to accomplish his will. So the argument that WD should cease but also that Mac is used of God is invalid.
2) I am not very familiar with Swaggert. But one name came immediately to mind when I first heard the audio clips of Mac linked on this blog: Bill Clinton. I'm not comparing Mac to Bill in any terms other than this: they sure sound a lot alike when they start (fake) crying.
Children need to go to bed...this blog is for those taking the abuses of Donald McCall Brunson seriously. How many "pastors" preach the way Brunson preaches? It is one thing to preach with fire about sin and instructing the flock to stay clear of the temptations of the Devil, to hate sin, but love the sinner. Brunson's sermons come from a much different place. He feels put upon, someone has wronged him, picked on in school, something, because the sweet love of Jesus doesn't come shining through. The smile and the true love of the scriptures has not been one his strengths. History, Greek, story telling, past history of FBC, condemnation of the disciples (God fearing members of FBC). He is realizing that the rants are becoming old - he senses from the people that his tactics are wearing thin - so let's mix it up a little.
The story of Joseph is one of the greatest and most often read and told stories in the bible. What born again believer has not read, heard, read commentaries on, watched on tv, had indepth bible studies on, even saw in a broadway production etc...the amazing story of Joseph and the mercy and love shown to his brothers when revenge could have easily been on his mind. But to break down in a mass of snot and tears flowing was beyond belief and quite frankly, uncomfortable.
Man up Brunson and stop trying to use television evangelistic tactics - we are much deeper than that. We understand the scriptures and we know a fake and phony when we see one.
Anon 7:06; I actually responded to you last night but the blogger determined it wasn't worth putting up for what ever reason. So here is my much shorter cliff notes version of what I wrote:
-it is none of your business where I work
-I really don't care what you think about what I do on my breaks and lunches.
-I can read and write English pretty well (a lost language form in Jacksonville, I know) and my electronic equipment use form from my company states limited personal use on breaks and lunches. Now if you have problems understanding what that means, look up the definitions of the words.
-On the note of the above, the company has a filter that pops up when we go to view personal sites like these. We are required to use in 10 minute blocks our personal time to access sites like these. So, if I am on a personal site for 1 minute, it still docks me for 10. This personal use time is equivalent to our breaks and lunches and what the max is reached we are not allowed back out on the site any longer. Btw, I haven't begun my shift yet and am at work today using it now, that means I have less time on my breaks and lunch today.
-There is no way I could "hide" behind my computer, our desk are not shaped as such to where that is possible, all monitors face out so anyone walking by can see what is going on, and there is also this issue that my supervisor only sits one desk over. And so you don't try weaseling your way out of this one. We don't have those high cubicle walls. They are short where you can see most everyone around you.
-I gave you my break/lunch schedule since you seem to be so interested and obsessed with it. And to further reiterate I did not post at any time yesterday while I should have been working.
-About my employer and your verifying anything. You aren't wrong because I am giving you info to verify, you are wrong because you are wrong whether you verify it or not.
Now, if you would like to continue this line of questioning be my guest. As I said, I don't really care what you think about my job. So if you would like to be like a little dog barking at someone's leg be my guest and do so. Doesn't bother me a bit.
For full disclosure, I added a couple of lines to the cliff notes version, but all in all it says pretty much the same thing. See ya on my break!
I accidentally rejected about 8 comments last night, sorry. I have to allow comments through, and I rarely reject comments.
But people, enough of the threats of exposure, or criticisms of how much time people spend here.
Anon 12:08 - very well said.
There is an emptiness about his preaching. Let me explain it this way.
Jerry Vines wrote two books on preaching, "A Guide to Effective Sermon Delivery" and "A Guide to Effective Sermon Preparation". I understand these are textbooks used in many seminaries.
In the book on sermon delivery, Vines explains all the mechanics of how to effectively deliver a sermon, also mental and rhetorical methods. Very technical.
But his last two chapters in this book he discusses two aspects of sermon delivery: "heart preaching" and "annointed preaching".
Vines' points out that a preacher can have all the other aspects mastered in his book, but if you are not a "heart" preacher (sincere, concerned, loving) or if you are not an "annointed" preacher (the Holy Spirit working through your sermon), its all in vain. Its empty preaching.
In my opinion, and I know my opponents here will disagree, Mac is not an annointed preacher. This to me has been very apparent for some time. Why do I say he is not an annointed preacher? I guess I'll explain it in my own layman's terms like this: Mac is less interested in the Holy Spirit bringing conviction to his listeners, than he is in FORCIBLY getting his listeners to agree with HIM...he FORCIBLY, sometimes angrily, will try to get people to see their shortcomings. He speaks with condescension to his listeners. No where in scripture do I ever see Jesus condescendingly, angrily, preaching to people (except for the Pharisees, the arrogant religious leaders of his day - never to the sheep). Mac preaches from a mountain down to the plebe. His over-use of history is self-serving as he expects his listeners to share his own love for history. In short, he doesn't seem to trust the Holy Spirit to take his words and fit them to each of the listeners' hearts, to bring convinction to the lost to be saved, or to convict the saved to repentence and service. The preaching of the great preachers of the past (Vines mentions Criswell and Truett and R.G. Lee) like Vines (still preaching!), Lindsay, and Rogers...these men would preach and all ages and all conditions of men would be touched by the Holy Spirit in one single sermon. The people of FBC Jax and BBC and FBC Dallas know what I'm talking about. Children could learn and understand their sermons. The lost man was convicted of his need to be saved. The backslidden Christian would be compelled to return to Christ. The lazy church member who wasn't serving as he should was moved to serve - and all this in one single sermon heard by thousands of listeners. For Mac, many of the children get nothing as they are lost in his history and scared by his anger...the lost man and visitors are put off by his arrogance and unloving attitude towards those he SHOULD love (his church members)...and the Christians aren't touched perhaps as they should be because of his unloving complaining and harping. I believe the whole package of his delivery, his attitude, his "aire", his consescension,it all serves to squelches the Holy Spirit's ability to do what he wants to do. A man can have a doctorate from a seminary, but the Holy Spirit can more use a non-seminary trained layman to deliver God's word than an un-annointed preacher - and those at FBC Jax that have been touched by the sweet bible teachers at our church in Sunday School know what I mean! This is another reason perhaps that Mac is meeting great resistance to his scheme of forcing us into small groups. We are not being fed by his sermons and now he is wanting us to huddle in small groups when what we want in the SS hour is an annointed, heart, loving, bible teacher to teach a lesson - and they do NOT need to be taught "Old Testament 101" by Jim Smyrl or Marcus Allen to be qualified to deliver such a bible lesson. Am I getting through here?
But the point of this article that I've written about Mac's tearful reading of the Old Testament, is that Mac is not a HEART preacher. He doesn't show any love toward his people. If he really does love his congregation it NEVER comes out in his preaching. It doesn't even come out in his announcements when he does them. He may be a great guy in his office or after the service or at the restaurant, but 90% of his listeners will never have the opportunity to know him and share an evening or meal with him. What we know about Mac, the REAL Mac must come forth from his preaching. And the Mac that comes forth is angry, unloving, boastful, arrogant. Now, if he is not like that in real life, one on one...then he really needs to bring his preaching in line with the real Mac. Otherwise its just a show - he's a performer. People that knew Vines and Lindsay knew that what they were in the pulpit was what they were in real life. They weren't showmen.
If you are following the events at Ocala with THEIR preacher, it seems that their preacher is Mac in reverse: he is a wonderful heart preacher, but his persona in the pulpit of being a loving, humble man deliverying God's word is not matched by his ruthless actions out of the pulpit in that he has seen 6 associate pastors fired and banned from the property as they dared to bring concerns about his leadership to the deacons.
I'll leave you with this: for Vines to point out that "heart" and "annointed" preaching are the ultimate requisites for effective preaching, is to also say, sadly, there are preachers lacking in those. And we have one that I believe is lacking in both.
Here is an excerpt from Vines' book, from the chapter on "heart" preaching:
Perhaps the reason there has been a recoil against heart preaching is the extreme to whch some preachers have gone. There is an insincerity that is obnoxious in the pulpit, if not embarrassing. The preacher who sheds crocodile tears and who purposely works up his congregation to accomplish his own ends is not actually a heart preacher. Such preaching is basically insincerity covered with a pretense of emotion."
That is where we are at. And its so painfully obvious, I don't know why men who should be Mac's mentors like Vines and Hunt, won't read Mac the riot act and get him to change his ways. If Vines is sitting idly by, and criticizing anonymous bloggers while he is letting Mac behave as he is, he shares in the guilt of the destruction of our church.
Small Groups that don't work...
As a pastor I am very careful when we divide our members up into small groups (including SS). Not so much that small groups are a bad thing but it is vitally important that the persons leading these groups be called to teach and are supportive of the ministries of the church.
In a church the size of FBCJ and the number of unknowns who disagree with the pastor - how would one know if the person overseeing the small group is really going to benefit the persons in the group for the cause of Christ?
All churches have had their naysayers and they will continue to have them. I think we can all agree that much prayer and discernment is needed when people are being asked to oversee the teaching of God's word to others. Small groups at FBCJ right now would seem a difficult thing to oversee --- unless it is a way to draw the naysayers out. That would be to much work for me to consider, but for the conspiracy theorists it could be a go.
Dog, I am not your opponent - though I disagree with you on just about everything - I believe you believe you are sincere, though I believe you are sincerely wrong.
Your brother in Christ who is not ashamed to show himself.
jle
Mac preached at Criswell College on 11/6. Preached the same message he did at SWBTS on 11/5.
Still raked Mrs. Truett through the mud saying she "rose in opposition" against Criswell.
But one minor omission from Mac's sermon:
He didn't use his little snipe: "Isn't it interesting how history repeats itself".
Why not Mac? Didn't have the guts to tell everyone there how the wife of the man whom the college is named after opposed YOU? You took your shot at Mrs. Criswell over at Fort Worth, but at Dallas you didn't have the guts to do it? Why not?
And Mac defended himself and other pastors, telling them that he doesn't earn "millions", doesn't "live in a mansion", and doesn't "drive expensive cars".
Never once does he express any gratitude for what he OBVIOUSLY HAS BEEN GRACED WITH. Just wants to make it sound like he gets paid like any other preacher.
The guy is a liar and a deceiver. There's no other way to put it.
I heard Mac preach in Dallas prior to his coming to Jacksonville. He preached like a history professor and since he loves history its hard for him to change. That's why he still uses the historical position. It's not in him primarily to make sermons strictly from the bible. It probably would be a big change for him and he does not desire to surrender that part of the message he delivers. It was he that said he had rather be a history professor or a lawyer rather than a "Local Pastor".
God called ministers preach the Word not history, not politics, not the latest trends, not football scores, just good Bible. If they don't they do not need to be in the pulpit, as so many other good speakers could get up on center stage, have the lights, cameras and build up a crowd. They are on television everyday and you know who they are. Many never lead anyone to Jesus as they are in the business for one reason only "money", and more "money". Remember the old horse riding preachers who once traveled from Sun up to Sun down preaching any place they could win folks to the Lord? It can still be done with the right message, the right attitude, and having your sins confessed, your heart right, and with a lot of studying. I know Sunday School teachers that took 8-14 hours a week to bring out a 30 minute lesson that put most of these tv preachers to shame. They certainly put Mac to shame. Why not get back to basics and let the Holy Spirit do His work, it's His job not ours in the first place. Until you get them to see that they are lost you will never get them saved, that's the annointing of the Holy Spirit type preaching that's needed today througout America.
Watchdog: Your perception and analyzation of Brunson in your 8:11 AM blog was masterful. You have completely captured what this man is about.
Thanks to the deep Bible preaching/teaching that Dr. Lindsay gave us for years, he prepared us to recognize whether a man is truly a God called preacher or not. Mac did not count on the real Bible believers and YES scholars that would be found in this church. He completely underestimated this church and now is having to deal with them, because they know he is not a preacher. He is an opportunist. This is why this church doesn't respond to his histronics,and amatuer theatrics.
As to laymen being God called: This church once had a man named Fred McCormick here, that was one of the most humble Godly men, to walk FBCJ halls. He never attended a seminary, but knew the Bible well. His passion for the lost was legend. This was a man that would drive hundreds of miles (and did) to take a lost man back to his family AFTER Fred had led him to the Lord. Fred had over 200 men in his T.U. class, a large number at that time, the men wanted to hear him teach that much. No small groups here. He had a revival going among the men of this church that was truly of God. It made one feel that this was a once in a lifetime experience. Fred was a very quiet,humble, Godly man. If Brunson could have spent some time with Fred, he may truly have become a preacher, as Fred inspired everyone around him to know the Lord well.
Good morning Watchdog,
JE brought up a good point against the use of small groups in Sunday School. He said basicly that you may not be able to trust the person who is controlling small groups to benefit those in the group for the cause of Christ. Well said! By the way, that controlling guy is called a facilitator by Rick Warren. The scary thing about the facilitator is he may actually be directing the group to accomplish the pastor's AGENDA. In a small group he could intimidate the group to agree with a wrong directed pastor. Then too, in small groups you could have believers and unbeliever who learn to empathize and identify with each others values and lifestyles. So you have a mixing of values not being grounded in the word of God. We could also get into the real bad use of the small group at another post.
Watchdog SMALL GROUPS IS BAD STUFF.
Vines words you reiterated in your 8:ll blog, certainly nail Brunson. But these preachers are all in the business together, they arn't going to criticize each directly. Vines wanted Brunson to takover this church, remember. I don't trust any of them. I did trust Lindsay. He had NO AGENDA but the Lord! He wasn't interested in being the SBC President (he was asked to run several times) he said he didn't want to take time away from being pastor of FBCJ. His church came first. He didn't go places making speaches for money. Nor, did he write books,for money, plus getting them put in the seminaries as required reading, insuring that he gets a certain amount of money. Lindsay wrote "booklets" that were all over the church for "free" taking, by anyone that wanted them. Many were given out on "visitation", something else we don't hear much about. Do people visit much anymore?
Anon,
Do people visit much anymore?
November 18, 2008 10:36 AM
We do. Tonight we will be going out again, about 21 of us in groups of 3. We are in our 5th week of FAITH and have seen 8 people saved and have discovered 63 prospects. Working on getting the follow-up done now, through the SS.
I can list some great churches who still do (great in heart for the great commission, not their size). Still wonder what that other anon person meant by saying I pastor a "very small" church in NC.
I don't, he was wrong.
Dr.Dog....Your 8:11am post was absolutely brilliant!!!!!Brunson is not an annointed preacher he is a laywer or history teacher masquerading as a Pastor..Jesus said "If I be lifted up I'll draw ALL men unto me"(John 12:32)something Brunson has obviously forgotten...Dr.Dog your explanation of a Holy Spirit empowered sermon that meets each person at there point of need was outstanding!!!Thanks for that blog,it has really made me reexamine myself and my motives for pastoring and preaching God's Word more effectively!!!!Thanks my Brother in Christ...
Please don't insult lawyers by calling Mac a lawyer. Lawyers have to do very well in their undergraduate degree just to get accepted into a reputable law school. There, they are competing for grades with all top notch, highly intelligent students, then they have to EARN a juris doctor after at least 3 years of law school, which includes legal research and writing, trial practice seminars, thesis papers and a variety of other real world disciplines. Then they have to compete for jobs with the best and brightest. Then they are a part of adversarial system where while they represent the interests of a person in need, they are openly and vigorously opposed by an equally trained opponent, and ultimately, their positions are scrutinized by a judge or jury.
Mac's experience was and is a little bit different. He went to seminary and ever since people have told him how much they love him and what a Godly man he is. His academic accomplishments pale in comparison.
Most importantly, he is a bully in the pulpit with his microphone and one sided propaganda. He is unprofessional and rude and he would be beaten like a drum if he ever allowed any that disagree with him to yield the microphone for even 5 minutes each service. Juries and clients and fellow lawyers would find him abrasive, arrogant and rude.
No, Mac is no lawyer. He is more of a professor of Baptist history at a conservative, fundamental seminary where you have to sign a plegde that you will only teach what the seminary president tells you to teach.
I must admit, I would love to have him as my Baptist history professor. But they don't pay as well since you can't name your own salary and can't put wife and son on salary to help you out.
Just my opinion... :)
To Watchdog, thank you for admitting they were accidentally deleted. I was not accusing you of deciding it should be be put up.
And we actually agree, this garbage about tracking people down like threats, and what people are doing as far as when they post here is completely irrelevant.
About the Anon 11:49am who posted yesterday. Unbeknownst to me that was my sick wife who was home and decided to post. I never recommend A.)taking anything on a blog personally
B.)posting when you are not of sound mind being tired, sick, depressed, etc.
However, I can promise you she was also not one of the anon's threatening to track anyone down because that is not what she does. Neither have I threatened, nor will I. I don't care where you live. You have just as much of a right to an opinion as anyone else.
To what seems like the one individual who is threatening to track people down, you are taking this WAYYYYYY too seriously.
For those who have asked about Jimmy Swaggart, I was a child back when he was on but I will try my best to explain him. He was, I believe of the name it and claim it charismatic ilk. He had a TV program which I believe came on at 5:30 or 6am in Jacksonville in old Independent WAWS Channel 30 (how's that for memory), I know this because it came on before cartoons started every morning. He was of the same generation as Jim Bakker, Oral Roberts, and the like who were all over TV in a major way back in that day. And he was one of the most popular of that day, very influential in his sphere of influence. I never heard him preach and don't know a whole lot about him so I will not call him a charlatan who was only after money or anything, it is possible based on the little bit of knowledge I have of the guy he was just misinterpreting scripture, but anything else someone who knows more about him can explain as I really don't. Anyway, long about sometime I believe in late 1987/early 1988 he was either found to have or just flat admitted to having an affair with another woman I believe and he cried for repentance on his tv show in front of a crowd of what looked like several thousand people. One of his most famous lines from that is while sobbing he cries "I have sinned against you." I think he is actually back on TV somewhere, but he is not nearly as influential today as he was then.
Jimmy Swaggart
When WD made that connection, man was it relevant and spot on. Swaggart was very big in the 80s. John Starnes who is one of the most godly and annointed tenors was a regular on his tv show. So good sincere people and good intentions can be the fruit of even the most self serving endeavors. Swaggart was charismatic in his delivery, emoting, strutting etc...He could also play a mean piano and had a good solo voice - he was multi-talented.
He is a prime example of a preacher who believed his own press clippings. He left his first love - happens to any child of God who begins to entertain the thought that they are in control or that they have influence over people. It is the power of the Holy Spirit that convicts - not the theatrics of man. We are but imperfect vessels being filled up and used over for the Glory of God. When someone is born again they receive the filling of the Holy Spirit (the indwelling) who will now lead our lives in the way that points to Jesus who in turn glorifies the Father. It is the beauty and simplicity of this that allows children at the point of their understanding and accountability to come to a saving knowledge of Christ. The Gospel is simple really. Oh sure, there are doctrinal philosophies that require study, but the basics are simple really.
I remember vividly when Pastor Lindsay preached particularly that when you left the service you were encouraged to be a better witness, a stonger disciple, a more loving father, mother, child, to put Jesus first in your life and you would be better equipped to face the difficult issues of life. He led by example. We didn't follow or love Homer Lindsay, Jr. because he told us to - we followed him and loved him becaused he was exemplary in his devotion to Christ. As Jesus gave us the perfect example - Homer Lindsay shepherded his flock with the same love and compassion as we envisioned Jesus did when he walked this Earth. He was a Godly witness. Period. And Amen.
Blogger of 1:07 Re: lawyers:
I agree with your comments! Mac is the one that said he wanted to be a lawyer. My apologies to the LEGITIMATE lawyers. But, I might add, we have a few lawyers at FBCJ that do not show good judgement in that they are ENABLERS of Brunson!
I personally believe he would make a better salesman.
I have heard it said, "one starts to fail when one starts to believe his own press". That would be all of those who praise and adore Mac. Those who have participated in "blowing up" Macs ego have left us with the "fallout".
You use the words arrogant, abusive and rude. I think these are apt words to use in describing this mans personality. He certainly does not have the qualities to be a preacher of the gospel, in my opinion. So these terms fit in this case.
The terms "conservative and fundamental" however, are being trashed. They no longer apply to many seminaries today. Many of them are training grounds for Brunson type preachers that are out to "make it big" in the "ministry"(?). For the legitimate preachers that are truly called of God it is unfortunate that you are being tarnished like the legitimate lawyers. In another more apropos term: The fox is in the hen house.
Dear Friend,
Good Job! These preachers need to leave the staged theatrics to the entertainers; a preacher's job should come from the heart.
Jeremiah was called the weeping prophet but by no means did he cry "crocodile tears."
Keep up the good work.
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