Below is by far my favorite Ergun Caner story that he has told over the years: how when he was a young preacher in North Carolina, around Christmas time, he had a bad cough on a Sunday morning and ended up that afternoon drinking a jar of moonshine thinking it was cough syrup, and getting up that evening in the pulpit drunk.As the story goes, Mike, er, I mean Ergun, was too far away from a drug store to go buy cough syrup, so his father-in-law, head of the deacons of the church, told Ergun to come out to his truck as he had some "cough syrup".
Well, unbeknownst to Ergun, what he thought was "cough syrup" was pure grain alcohol in a jar...and Ergun said he drank the whole thing...and, well, listen to the story yourself...this is why I think he has a future in comedy, and could very well be the next Dennis Swanburg if things don't work out at Liberty.
I don't think for a minute that Caner, growing up in the midwest in the 70s, would have been fooled...a typical teenager from the 70's knows what pure grain alcohol is. Now if he was a devout Muslim Turkish immigrant who came here when he was 17 as he led his Ohio Free Will Baptist men's audience to believe during this conference, then maybe he wouldn't know any better. Hopefully Ergun has repented for imbibing an adult beverage, and for allowing himself to get behind the sacred desk inebriated. :)
But this makes for a great story, and it sure had the Ohio Free Will Baptist men rolling in the aisles when he told it.
But it must have been true, because you'll hear Ergun tell his audience, that the story is "God's truth".
Enjoy!
Ergun Caner - Drinkin' Moonshine! from FBCJax Watchdog on Vimeo.
I agree that Ergun Caner should be held accountable for publicly lying about his past. But it would seem that you're enjoying this too much. Are you sure this is just watchdog stuff or are you carrying this all a bit too far? Sarcasm is not a very becoming quality.
ReplyDeleteMan find someone else to write about. While you've been playing the watchdog on Ergun Caner (for months and months) some other foxes may have slipped into the henhouse.
Hi John - I do really enjoy this story, it is my favorite, better even than the Dukes of Hazard and Mayberry story. This one is funny. If it is true, it is humorous that he drank some moonshine thinking it was cough syrup, then got in the pulpit and said "To be the man, you gotta beat the man". I just hope he didn't drive home!
ReplyDeleteIt is a humorous story. Lighten up.
And I really do think he can be the next Dennis Swanberg. He is that talented when it comes to telling stories. It could be his calling.
ReplyDeleteJohn Wylie said: "I agree that Ergun Caner should be held accountable for publicly lying about his past. But it would seem that you're enjoying this too much. Are you sure this is just watchdog stuff or are you carrying this all a bit too far? Sarcasm is not a very becoming quality."
ReplyDeleteThis is not only about Ergun Caner any more. A vast swath of "Christian leaders" are actively supporting Caner and his lies (LU, Geisler, Ankerberg, etc.). They have made an absolute mockery of any Christian claim on truth, morality, or even sanity. The situation has become blasphemous and ludicrous beyond all description. A known serial liar is scheduled to speak at Liberty University with NINE OTHER "Christian leaders" at the upcoming Refresh Worship Conference. What does this say about the moral condition of those nine speakers sharing the stage with Ergun Caner? And all this is happening at LU which allowed the lies to go on for nine years, and tried to cover them up with a fake "inquiry" that "wasn't an inquiry or anything like that" until forced by the "godless media" to admit that Ergun had made "factual statements that were self-contradictory." Is your head hurting yet? We are not witnessing a minor sin here - we are witnessing an endemic blasphemous madness that has infected a huge segment of the Christian institution. And you think "sarcasm" is "not a very becoming quality." Too bad. You might want to talk to Ergun and his defenders about why sarcasm has become such a useful tool.
Pastor Wylie,
ReplyDeleteI agree Sarcasm is not a very becoming quality, but from my perspective your peers (preachers) are far better at dishing it out than the Watchdog has been on this blog,
As long as Liberty University has this man on staff the stories will continue on one blog or another.
You're right Watchdog - Caner probably full well knew what he was drinking and it is a humorous story!
Or the whole thing is a fable. Personally, this is what I expect the truth is.
ReplyDeleteHow sad, Michael Caner obviously has no fear of the LORD, yet claims to represent God in the pulpit.
ReplyDeleteWe need to pray for this man, he is in serious error.
BibleWheel,
ReplyDelete"Too Bad"? So the very standard you're calling upon others to live up to you're giving youself a pass for? I agree sarcasm is commonly utilized by many preachers, I've been guilty of it, but I've never been right when I gave in to that kind of temptation. It's wrong for me, it's wrong for you or anybody else.
This is not a case of "Oh well, preachers have been guilty of it so too bad." You lose credibility with that attitude. Gal 6:1"Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted."
Hey there John,
ReplyDeleteWhile I agree that sarcasm is usually not the best method of communication, I generally do not see it as a moral failing to be avoided like lying. There are times when it is appropriate (e.g. check out some of the apostle Paul's writings). Diverting the discussion to the good and bad aspects of sarcasm in the context of the perverse corruption of a vast swath of Christianity revealed by Caner, Geisler, LU, Patterson, and others seems absurd extreme.
Good chatting,
Richard
WD-
ReplyDeleteWhat I find amazinghere and that no one else has picked up on, is the fact that Caner throws his deacon faither-in-law under the bus.
He admits to everyone that his deacon fahter-in-law carries, and I assume, drinks "moonshine" and, he knows it is "moonshine".
I think this explains a lot. Those who were instrumental very early on in his ministry days did not hold themselves above reproach.
I'm sure this allowed for Caner to rationalize a lot of his wrongdoings in his mind.
I'd love to sit in on the next family dinner when EC and his daddy in-law talk about this episode!
This story is becoming more sordid daily.
ReplyDeleteWow. This scandal has just transitioned to an entirely new level. Ergun Caner has publicly stated that Braxton Morris, who became his father-in-law, was driving around with MOONSHINE in his truck, and that he got Ergun drunk with it on a Sunday in church!
ReplyDeleteI think one of Ergun's primary defenders, Peter Lumpkins, has a little rethinking to do. He wrote a book called "Alcohol Today: Abstinence in an Age of Indulgence." Here is how it is described on its Amazon page:
Is the moderate use of alcohol for recreational purposes a way Christians can reach today's culture? Some believers in this postmodern era of indulgence say an attack on the prevalence of social drinking amounts to legalism worthy of the Pharisees. Dealing with one of the real hot-button issues in our land today, Peter Lumpkins explores the various views on drinking beverage alcohol. With a surgeon's precision he dissects them and then stitches them together to form a devasating argument against any use of this mind-altering drug. Lumpkins blends an exhaustive scholarly study with courageous conviction and reasonable obedience as he strikes a blow for total abstinence from alcohol. His definitive book is the first of its kind in many decades and is sure to stir debate from a wide variety of sectors.
It would be fascinating to see how Lumpkins would deal with this if he had the integrity to give it a try.
Where is the sarcasm verse? I'm curious.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said "Where is the sarcasm verse? I'm curious."
ReplyDeleteThere's a lot more than one verse. Just Google - Apostle Paul sarcasm - and you will find an abundance of resources discussing this point.
"I agree that Ergun Caner should be held accountable for publicly lying about his past. But it would seem that you're enjoying this too much. Are you sure this is just watchdog stuff or are you carrying this all a bit too far? Sarcasm is not a very becoming quality. "
ReplyDeleteJohn, if you think he should be held accountable why aren't you focusing on that. It is much harder to stick your neck out there and rebuke the Liberty big wigs or the big SBC cheeses who support Caner.
It is quite safe to rebuke a blogger who is reviled by the leadership. That certainly would not hurt your "career".
Pastors have less and less credibility the more theywrite and talk. You guys seem to find the response to the depravity we find in leadership more sinful than the continual sinful acts of the leadership.
Gee, I wonder why. Note your OWN sarcasm aimed at Tom:
"an find someone else to write about. While you've been playing the watchdog on Ergun Caner (for months and months) some other foxes may have slipped into the henhouse."
Read between the lines, folks. Mr Wylie does not like it when the Christian leaders are "found out". Let's sweep it under the rug?
What I find amazinghere and that no one else has picked up on, is the fact that Caner throws his deacon faither-in-law under the bus."
ReplyDeleteWhy not? He threw his own dad under the bus by saying he had more than one wife when he came here and lied about it saying it was his sister.
He lies about his family, a lot.
Do preachers preach AGAINST sin anymore? Do they really believe in Holy living. Or do they make a jest of the Bible and Gods word. Some try to "relate" to the average joe, thinking they must be one of "them". If they "relate" then the "good ole boy" will become more popular and by osmosis, RICHER. It's called COMPROMISE. How many preachers are selling out the Gospel for money and fame. The rich preacher doesn't relate to the average joe by living in the gated communities, taking the huge salaries from the church, hiring family members to do the same, calling vacations mission trips, also getting paid by the church and travel companies at the same time, while cruiseing here and there around the world. Making a joke about alcohol, when so many people in the world are alcoholics, and so many people have been killed in alcohol related deaths. Homes and lives destroyed. It's not funny, it's very sad. Where are the preachers that preach AGAINST anything today. What are they paid for. When preachers and people in general turn a blind eye to sin, then they are exactly that BLIND. No wonder God said He will spue us out of His mouth. The church of Laodicea is certainly alive today. Some are worried about sarcasm in the Word. If sarcasm is what your looking for, you're in trouble. You better pay attention to what God says in His Word. God will not be mocked. And BTW, just throwing the name of Jesus into a sermon here and there to justify the heavy salaries and perks, does not make one a preacher of the Gospel.
ReplyDeleteIt is quite safe to rebuke a blogger who is reviled by the leadership. That certainly would not hurt your "career".
ReplyDelete___________________________________
This post got me to thinking about my friend Tom being "reviled" by the "leadership." I am wondering...has ANY "leadership" at FBC Jax, or currently in the SBC agencies or committees, or even his former long-time pastor Jerry Vines, even bothered to call or email Tom and tell him they love him, forgive him (if they believe what he is doing is wrong or have been offended themselves), and that they are praying for him?
I am sure they did this with Daryl Gilyard and Tom Messer and Ergun Caner, whose sins, cover ups and "misstatements" were much worse than Tom blogging. And in any event, had Tom committed adultery, or molested a child, wouldn't someone have come and tried to minister to him and his family?
I wonder if there has been any such person who has shown any such grace to Mr. Rich and his family. Sadly, I think I know the answer and it tells us all alot about the hyprocrisy of those we listen to each week and those who are in postion of leadership at FBC Jax and the SBC.
"I wonder if there has been any such person who has shown any such grace to Mr. Rich and his family. Sadly, I think I know the answer and it tells us all alot about the hyprocrisy of those we listen to each week and those who are in postion of leadership at FBC Jax and the SBC."
ReplyDeleteAugust 4, 2010 9:27 AM
==============================
The truth folks is that when one stops going to FBCJ no one bothers to call to say they've missed you, are you okay, has something happened - this is really an "insider" church.
What they don't forget to do is send you your monthly tithing envelopes even though you've been gone for two years. They are faithful with mailing with request for monies.
The deacon (under Vines) that molested his Sunday School boys was repeatedly showered with requests for prayer for him and his family, but then he was one of the good old boys "Country Club" members.
Then comes bully Mac who preaches Love, kindness, Compassion to the TV, Radio & church audience - his Cheerleaders all come from the same batch - those who work for him, his deacons and the preachers in SBC.
Yes, you and I both know the answer to your question as Brunson is nothing but a Bully Spoiled Preacher who knows nothing about the Grace that he preaches - they didn't ban the Deacons's wife from coming on property but they did Mrs. Rich.
Unbelievable comparison!
Anon - just to clarify, the "deacon" you are referring to did not molest any of his Sunday School boys, it was something that happened away from church and did not involve boys from the church. Just wanted to clarify that.
ReplyDeleteWatchdog,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the clarification - your right, but it did happen, the Deacon did do the deed and one of the boys is still undergoing therapy for treatment. Very sad for all involved.
Don't look for these guys to apologize for anything. They are above that. In their eyes they are exalted, therefore, they do no wrong. They destroy a members service of many years, the members reputation in the church, indeed force the member out by degrees. In Mr. Richs case, by a trespass warning. I wonder how many people have really been injured by arrogant preachers. I am disgusted with churches of today and those that lead them. I have sat by these people for years, heard the same sermons they have, and I continue to marvel at what I heard that they did not. How do these agents of self righteouness live with themselves in truth.
ReplyDelete"I am wondering...has ANY "leadership" at FBC Jax, or currently in the SBC agencies or committees, or even his former long-time pastor Jerry Vines, even bothered to call or email Tom and tell him they love him, forgive him (if they believe what he is doing is wrong or have been offended themselves), and that they are praying for him?
ReplyDelete"
Excellent point! Yet they continually insist LEADERS be forgiven and rebuke folks for daring to point out the lies and bad behavior of the LEADERS.
Sounds like a club to me. or they think they have a special anointing that makes their sins understandable. or perhaps they just redefine sin for themselves.
If this really happened (Caner story) it is almost blasphemous. The genuinely called preachers of times now gone would have kicked him out the door. Now it is regarded as humorous. How far we have come from the Word. Is there anything at all funny about ANOTHER drinking deacon. And legitimate members are tossed out because they "upset", ask questions of, or challenge a preacher. Preacher save thyself!!!! Why do people continue to make millionaires of these people.
ReplyDeleteAnon 12:49
ReplyDeleteI think the Caner story only makes sense in the context of his sermon and his talks to this particular audience.
This story comes out of a series of 4 sermons he preached to the Ohio Free Will Baptist men at their men's retreat, which I believe was Feb 2009. These sermons have since been taken down by the Free Willers from their site. These sermons were provided to the Liberty investigative team during the month of June at their request and were likely listened to by the very men who decided to demote Caner.
At this retreat, Caner did a masterful job of painting himself as a Muslim raised in Europe, a towel-head, etc. etc. He really laid it on thick for these guys. I blogged about it several months ago. Classic Caner lies and embellishments.
It is in that context that if he came here as a 17 year old from Turkey or Beirut or Europe (I forget which the story was he gave the Ohio Free Willies) that it might make sense that he was naive and innocent, and thought he was drinking cough syrup.
Obviously any grown man in the states knows what alcohol is, they know what pure grain ethanol is (moonshine), and would not be fooled as a preacher into drinking a glass of moonshine.
But maybe he didn't know any better, because Peter Lumpkins hadn't published his book on absitnence yet. :)
The truth is perhaps he did take a few teaspoons of liquor to help him with his cough. But to down the whole thing, then get up in the pulpit drunk with no rememberence except his wife saying he yelled "To be the man you gotta beat the man"....I mean how gullible did he take these Ohio Free Willers to be?
The other context about this moonshine story is that to the Ohio Free Willers Caner talked about asking his father in law for his daughter's hand in marriage and that is FIL was wary of the "towel head" showing up with a "unibrow" to date his daughter.
ReplyDeleteI apologize for commenting here but I don't know how to get your opinion on an unrelated topic. For some reason, after sending an email to a public figure, I wondered what your opinion of my email might be. So, would you indulge me your opinion? I sent this email to Christopher Hitchens after reading his article at http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/features/2010/09/hitchens-201009. Here is my email:
ReplyDeleteDear Christopher,
I just read your writing titled Topic of Cancer at VanityFair.com. Your mention of prayer groups "on the side of my continued life" gave me pause to pray for you myself. So, I paused and prayed that God would once again show you himself and what He has done for you. He has given you the option to spend eternity with Him rather than without Him. Why do I care for you enough to write you? It is not to win any argument. Rather, it is because having chose this option for myself I am compelled to desire it for everyone in hopes they don't spend eternity without Him. So, did I also pray for your "continued life"? Yes I did, though I hope you can see the higher importance of the former.
Oops, I didn't give you a way to reply to my comment regarding Christopher Hitchens. My email is facedecaf@gmail.com. Thanks
ReplyDeleteI've been in the same small country wonderful church for going on 11 years. I love the people I pastor and they love me. This has nothing to do with my "career", if I was worried about that I would've left a long time ago. I'm not afraid of the big wigs in the convention, our church is not even in the convention. When I make a criticism it has nothing to do with impressing anyone, or being mad because watchdog is exposing someone.
ReplyDeleteI'm not defending Mr. Caner's actions which I clearly said he should be held accountable. My point was that there are other areas that Watchdog might need to focus on. I just got frustrated because it seems Caner is all we're focusing on.
Pastor Wylie,
ReplyDeleteAs long as Ergun Caner is a teaching professor at Liberty University and stands in the pulpit speaking to the young adults the subject deserves to be openly discussed.
A lying accountant handling their employers money is always fired - my expectations of you pastors is the same. Lying on the sacred pulpit calls for dismissal. Caner needs to seek another type of employment - get out of the ministry period and work in the secular world. Lay people use their witnessing skills every day to reach people.
The very reason "Churches Are Dying" is because of people like the author himself - Ergun Caner.
I didn't listen to the video clip. Do you all ever wonder why Caner's show played so well to southern baptists? He seemed to me to be playing to every racial and derogatory stereotype there was to play to. It speaks about his character, but it also speaks volumes about the people who he was speaking to, that they made that kind of speaker someone who was promoted
ReplyDeleteHe's a storyteller, pure and simple. He should have used that gift to write fiction or something.
I still say, all the people around him knew. They can all keep trying to pass off they didn't know he was storytelling aka LYING but they all knew it, come on.
The only word that I can think of is mockery.
"I just got frustrated because it seems Caner is all we're focusing on."
ReplyDeleteCaner hopes we follow your advice. That is why he paid to have reputation management and have google searches bring up good stuff on him.
Has anyone noticed that church attendance is dwindling? I heard that attendance in Europe is 2% which means 98% no longer go to church!!!!I assume like a lot of us who have left the so called church (buildings) that most people are no longer interested in having "their ears tickled".
ReplyDeleteHas anyone noticed that church attendance is dwindling? I heard that attendance in Europe is 2% which means 98% no longer go to church!!!!I assume like a lot of us who have left the so called church (buildings) that most people are no longer interested in having "their ears tickled".
ReplyDeleteAugust 5, 2010 2:43 PM
In Europe, the church was married to the state. CAthedrals were the first mega churches.
But don't let the numbers fool you. many are leaving the "institution" but are stilln believers and meet with other believers in a much more informal way.
A book was even written about it by a religion reporter called Quitting Church. What she found is that is was not nominal Christians who were leaving the institution but the serious ones.
More and more churches are opting for the fancy shows and entertainment to bring them in. I do not expect that to stop. Christianity is being marketed as an easy life.
But also consider that Islam and Mormonism are growing. People are also attracted to the rules and roles systems. They want to 'do' religion. but Christianity is all about "Being" in Christ.
They want to 'do' religion. but Christianity is all about "Being" in Christ.
ReplyDeleteAmen.
Anon 3:14pm. I can only suggest that in our generation that "there must first be a falling away". It will only get worse and worse whether it be the church or any of our other institutions. Come quickly Lord Jesus should be our daily prayer as He is the only one who can deliver us from this madness!!!!
ReplyDeleteMajestatic > Kregel ask Dr Caner to resolve discrepancies
ReplyDeleteI missed this link in June :-(
ReplyDeleteWm. Dwight McKissic, Sr. > Why A Resolution to the SBC on Affirming and Apologizing to Women?
The request for more information from Kregel was a good thing. However, the response raised more questions for me than it answered. The comment I left on Magestatic's blog follows:
ReplyDelete"I would expect that the request for clarification was made quite some time ago. Possibly a month ago since their press release is dated July 6. Of course, if the request for clarification was made by that time, their press release is a lie--so it must have been made later. Do you think that the clarifications will be made public?
But what it amounts to is that Kregel did not check the documentation of EC's statements that was available--or if they did, they ignored it.
When you read the e-mail and the press release at the same time and then think of all the information about EC's lives that is available, this becomes simply one more footnote in the disgusting story. One more "person" (the publishing company management) who decided to believe what people say rather than checking the documentation."
I don't fault Kregel for accepting the original story--we (almost) all did. But when there is questioning of the story, the bar should be raised several feet--and cleared--before you support the story that is being doubted.
Are you checking this stuff for authenticity?
ReplyDeleteWhile I can not speak for being drunk or buzzed behind the pulpit or "to be the man, you got to beat the man", I would like to clear up some things about Braxton Morris
ReplyDeleteBraxton is his father in law and did attend Wood Baptist Church while Ergun was on staff. Braxton was not a deacon nor the chairman of deacons. He was simply a member of the church. He did not own a truck and he DID NOT carry around or drink moonshine or offer moonshine to Ergun.
My father does not drink, was not a deacon or chairman of deacons and DID NOT give Ergun Caner moonshine!!
ReplyDeleteMatt - thanks for posting here. I can't confirm you are who you say, but if you are indeed Ergun's bro in law and Braxton's son, I'm sorry that Caner has been lying about your dad. He has told this story numerous times throughout the U.S., and it is about the same version each time. He says your dad gave him moonshine and he didn't know any better, and drank it all and got in the pulpit drunk.
ReplyDeleteFeel free to contact me via email from my profile to confirm your identity, and I'll be willing to make a special post to let everyone know that it is not true.