At left is a picture of a solid green sign in Gainesville, Florida.That is, or WAS, a sign erected lawfully by Terry Jones of the Dove World Outreach ministry, with the agreement of the property owner. Two plain-clothes Alachua County sheriff's deputies painted over Mr. Jones sign using green paint.
The sign advertised the "Burn the Quran Day" to be held at Jones' church.
The following paragraphs about that green sign from the Gainesville Sun should send chills down the spine of anyone concerned about First Amendment free speech issues in this country:
Wow. The Alachua County Sheriff's department went and put pressure on the land owner to allow them to send two plainclothes officers to paint over the sign."A Dove World Outreach Center sign on Southwest 13th Street announcing its International Burn a Quoran Day' was painted over Wednesday evening by Alachua County sheriff's deputies.
The sign was put up on a billboard on property adjacent to the Hoda Center Academy, a mosque and Islamic center, under an agreement between the property owner and church officials.
On Thursday morning, sheriff's spokesman Lt. Steve Maynard said the decision to paint over the sign came after a day of what he described as conversations between Heine and local officials. After receiving written permission from Heine, two deputies in plainclothes were sent to the sign with green paint that the Sheriff's Office had on hand, Maynard said, and at about 8 p.m. painted over the sign."
Like it or not, this man and his church members have a First Amendment right to burn the Qurans on his church property. I agree with Michael Bloomberg, Mayor of New York City - he stated that while he found the burning of the Quran distasteful, he affirmed that Terry Jones has a right to his free speech and we should all seek to protect it.
Burning of books or other materials that one find's offensive, or that they don't like: that is a form of protected "speech", and it is well grounded in our Constitution rights as Americans.
And just because YOU, or I, or Obama, or Muslims here in America or in the Middle East don't like it: TOUGH POOP as my grandpappy used to say, and he didn't say "poop".
Have we Americans lost sight of the fact that the First Amendment free speech rights aren't needed to protect popular speech that the majority of Americans agrees with? The First Amendment was established by our founding fathers to protect speech that is offensive and unpopular! If this man is shut down by our government for his unpopular speech, who will be next? Maybe you, Christian pastor?
Jones can burn Qurans. He can burn Bibles. He can burn the Book of Mormon. He can even burn copies of our Constitution.
It doesn't matter if Obama doesn't like it. It doesn't matter if marching Muslims in Afganistan are burning effagies of the pastor. It doesn't matter if it is inconvenient to the sheriff of Alachua County. We live in America, and Jones has a right to free speech, and the government does not have the right to interfere with his speech based on its content.
Just a guess here: but I think this means the sheriff's office does not have a right to be painting over privately-owned signs with green paint that they find offensive.
And they aren't just painting over his signs. Jones also had his Internet Service Provider shut down his church's web site. Was the government involved in applying pressure to the ISP to get this accomplished? The Gainesville Sun is now reporting that the Sheriff of Alachua County is going to charge the pastor of Dove outreach church "tens of thousands" of dollars for security expenses due to his planned Quran burning. Burning a Quran requires NO increased security, unless it is the fire marshall or firemen.
Please hear me: The only thing that requires security would be policing those that disagree with the pastor. So why not issue a statement: "Anyone that tries to harm this man for exercising his free speech, you will be charged for the cost of our police protection."
Is not that the job of our government? Weren't the Sheriff of Alachua County and his deputies sworn to protect Mr. Jones' rights as an American citizen and of their county? Why is the Sheriff not telling people who might attempt to stop or harm Mr. Jones that the Sheriff will do everything in its power to protect his free speech?
So Christians everywhere should be just as outraged at the government response to the burning, as they are to the act of burning the Qurans. Utlimately this story will not be about Qurans, but about Pastor Jones' right to free speech.
You see Christian, if you don't stand up for this man's right to burn the Quran, YOU and your church might be next.
What, you want to have a Passion Play and show Jesus being beaten and hung on a cross? That is offensive. You will be charged for security AND your website shut down and your billboards painted over. That message might harm our troops around the world and is offensive to Jews and Muslims.
Have a blog that dares to blog about a pastor and his church and express your views about finances and call for a financial boycott? You might have a sheriff's deputy deeply involved in the church's ministry investigate your blog and hand your name to the church for them to kick you and your wife out...and then have the city defend their actions by saying the content of your blog constituted a "threat".
And you homosexuals want to have a gay pride parade? Nope, that is offensive to the majority of the people around the world so we will charge you for increased security and paint over your banners and billboards!
While I don't want this man to burn Qurans, and I find it to be a stupid and anti-Christian idea - the sad thing is that if the Sheriff's office succeds in intimidating him into silence, or if they physically stop him from exercising his free speech, we all will have lost a measure of our First Amendment rights. And if this happens, I hope the pastor fights back.
And Christian pastor, get ready, because you and your "offensive gospel" may be next.
I just sent an email to Sheriff Darnell asking her to stop her sanctions against Terry Jones for exercising his constitutional rights. I would encourage others to do the same. I don't agree with burning the Koran, it's offensive and not in the spirit of Christianity, but a Sheriff is to enforce law not obstruct constitutional rights.
ReplyDeleteThanks Watchdog for bringing this to our attention.
Excellent points, WD. I would just add that it seems to me the president, our troop commanders, Christian leaders, city leaders, local law enforcement, and ISP providers all are saying the same thing loud and clear: We better not ever, ever, do anything that might offend Muslims or else Muslims will make us pay a heavy price. Message sent by Islam, and received by all of the above.
ReplyDeleteI just wish we could send them the same message about our rights to free speech and religious freedom in this country. And I wish we could send them a message of what we might do if they persecute Christians in their country, or do anything to our Bible, like ban it from their country. Why are we all admitting we should be very afraid to offend them, while they are not the least bit afraid to offend, and kill, Christians?
Sounds like we should live in fear of Muslims and we all better make darn sure we don't offend them, or buddy, they will make us sorry.
Obama and Petraeus have received that threat and have taken heed. And so have the Gainesville police.
Yes, burning Qurans is offensive to not only Muslims, but also to Christians, Jews and Atheists. But being afraid to do so speaks more about the "peace loving" Muslims around the world than it does about the pastor with poor judgment.
I am afraid Terry Jones will go ahead and attempt to burn some Korans. If the police intercede any burning attempts in a church building and they claim he does not have the requisite environmental anti-pollution waivers ... the end result would be more news coverage and a big mess.
ReplyDeleteI have to concede that the government (local and federal) arm-twisting of the ISP and others in this incident might come back to haunt them.
Maybe Terry Jones needs to contact ACLU. Yes, I understand what most southern baptists think of ACLU. But ACLU might represent Terry Jones for the protection of his liberties, as in first amendment rights. I would also encourage Terry Jones to contact EFF.
Isn't that an irony. A conservative southern baptist pastor being asked to get help from liberal organizations.
I think this burning if it takes place, will have some repercussions from the moslems around the world.
Once again pastor John Wylie nails it! I am encouraged that there are pastors like him out there. As well as the "learning pastor" who posted yesterday. :)
ReplyDeleteKind of nice (ironic?) to see the Sheriff's office on the offensive against the church's free speech rights this time and not going after a layman's free speech rights when he criticizes the pastor.
ReplyDeleteI can't help but wonder if a watchdog blog was started about this Gainesville pastor if the sheriff would be so quick to get subpoena's, find out who the blogger was, and give his name to the pastor so they could try to shut him down. I guess it all depends on whether the police like the content of your blog or not. I thought the police were to be content neutral?
What the police did in both the WD case, and this pastor's case, were abusive and wrong. Looks like another lawsuit against the police is coming.
Which is more offensive to a Muslim: Respected and influential national religious leaders like Vines and Jeffress standing in front of thousands telling them Islam is evil, Allah is not God, and Muhammad is a pedophile? OR one old man and a few people burning a copy of the Koran?
ReplyDeleteI recall some local pastors collecting cassets on rock music in a 50 gallon drum and destroying them years ago. It was not required just that the teenagers who had them agreed to discard them. I believe we have the Supreme Ct allowing the burning of the American Flag. When you burn a book you are not burning God. There are things that some people whether they are left or right of center want to do in order to promote their agenda. The problem is that there is too much publicity for these individuals. If the media would just leave it alone along with the police it would not have become a big deal. Why the General and President are involved just makes it that more ridiculos. There was not nearly that much concern several years ago over some WHOLE CHURCHES BURNED TO THE GROUND. GET OVER IT.
ReplyDeleteWhat if Robert Jeffress decides to burn Korans inside his church? Since his church is much, much larger than Terry Jone's church, will the police attempt to use heavy handed tactics against Robert Jeffress and First Baptist Church in Dallas? I do not think so. I am guessing size of the church does matter on how the police react to these events.
ReplyDelete"We definitely plan on sending him a bill," City Manager Russ Blackburn said at City Hall.
ReplyDeleteOnce again the CITY stands behind the Sheriff to help silence speech they disagree with.
What if Terry Jones shipped the offending Korans to a service man stationed in Afghanistan and the service man was found to be proselytizing the natives to Islam by distributing the Korans. Then will the U.S. military burn the offending Korans, as they did the offending Bibles translated in native languages?
ReplyDeleteIf the pastor has a water hose available to put out the fire it makes no sense for the Sheriff to show up. Leave the pastor alone he knows exactly what he is doing.
ReplyDeleteI cannot understand why any Christian would desire to burn anothers religious book. Most Christians do not read their own Bible much less those of others. Just a stupid act. Freedom of speech is not in play here just some warped agenda that really means zero!!!
ReplyDeleteJust a suggestion. I would encourage you to site specific case law when stating your legal opinions Watchdog. Not only would it help solidify your arguments in this post, which I stand by and agree with you on, but it would also allow your readers to acquire a more informed, credible understanding of what they read, thus affording them the opportunity to offer a more educated opinion on what you write.
ReplyDeleteAnon 2:14 - I can't give you case law. But those of you who are lawyers, feel free.
ReplyDeleteAnon:
ReplyDeleteFreedom of speech comes into play when the government tries to shut down speech.
So, if the local authorities painted over this sign, that is a speech violation.
There are exceptions - like shouting "fire" in a crowded theatre. But no case has been made for that.
The mosque in NYC is not a freedom of speech or religion issue inasmuch as there has not been any hint of government action to suppress speech or religion.
In this case, however, it appears that there has been government action.
Louis
Burn baby Burn!
ReplyDeleteLooks like Terry Jones, Terry Porter, Mac Brunson, Jeffress and others all have one thing in common: God talks to them and tells them what to do. Comforting or scary?
ReplyDeleteOh well, these pastors, including Terry Jones, are deserving of double honor, and we should not question them as that is disrespectful. Where are all the churchmen to remind us to "touch not thine anointed?"
The sad truth is, YOUR pastor is not really much different than Terry Jones. Think about it.
Sorry, meant to say Perry Noble, not Terry Porter.
ReplyDeleteFBI now involved
ReplyDeleteBut its OK for the US Government to burn Bibles
Blogger Thy Peace said...
ReplyDeleteI think this burning if it takes place, will have some repercussions from the Muslims around the world.
Hmmm, looks like we are already dead, as they empower themselves through out the world.
So be it now , or be it later?
Government Gets Terry to back down
ReplyDeleteFrom the article linked to above: “If Koran is burned, it would be beginning of destruction of America,” read one English-language banner held up by the protesters, who chanted “Down with America!”
ReplyDelete___________________________________
I don't know who comes out looking the most intolerant and dangerous here: This pastor or the Muslims in Afghanistan quoted above.
Anyone think this quote from the linked article might chill a pastor, any pastor, from preaching anything with conviction:
ReplyDelete“We are sending a bill for services to the Dove World Outreach Center. We're tracking our costs,” said city spokesman Bob Woods. “I'm sure the cost will be substantial.”
While I think that the Q'uran burning is foolishly risky at best, I think that the Florida sheriff's actions are more dangerous.
ReplyDeleteThere will be (and are already) riots in Islamic countries over this. Our Christian brothers and sisters are at grave risk, but anything a Christian does puts them at risk. Even helping the poor and needy Muslims.
The way this should have been handled is complete media ignoring him.
And for the day in question, no media at all, and a very large, very localized rain storm.
Fox News just reported that Terry Jones has cancelled the Koran burning.
ReplyDelete"Oh well, these pastors, including Terry Jones, are deserving of double honor, and we should not question them as that is disrespectful. Where are all the churchmen to remind us to "touch not thine anointed?"
ReplyDeleteYou are right!
His title means he should not be questioned! He is a pastor and has special anointing!
And now that Jones is a celebrity pastor, it is even more true.
Sad. Very sad. All of it.
ReplyDeleteThe true motives of Terry Jones we may never really know?
ReplyDeleteBut what intrigues me is the heavy handed response to his actions by Americans and the world that I believe speaks volumes!
The elites and many of us on this blog have practically called him every derogatory and demeaning name in the every langauage!
But what it has shown us is the duplicity of so-called relgious leaders and politicians.
They have no problems insulting Christians by placing a crucifix in a jar of human urine and putting in on display in a museum or hollywood planning to depict Christ in a cartoon in which He is tired of His oppressive Father!
Where's the outcry(silence from all)???
They say he has a right to burn korans,but is it the right thing to do!
When ask the same questions concerning the proposed mosque in New York near ground zero the same people just say they have the right,but nothing about is it the right thing to do!
They say lets not offend Muslim sensibilities by burning kornas,then at the same time there is no outcry from these same elites about the atrocities such as the burning of churches in Muslim country or the oppression and murder of Christians!
Though I agree that Mr Jones went about dealing with his concerns in and inappropriate manner;
What he has done is open Pandora's box and reveal to all who are willing and able to see the terrible spiritual condition that America is in[2Thess.1-3]!!!
Love!!!
From a Christian (and not legal) perspective, it seems clear to me that Terry Jones doesn't believe in the Sovereignty of God. If he did, he would believe that God is in control, that there is nothing to fear from a book that isn't true, and that God doesn't need help defending His honor.
ReplyDeleteI think we can blame a lot of this fiasco on the media. I'll bet Fred Phelps is jealous he didn't think of it first.
The verses I meant to reference was 2Thess.2:1-3!!!
ReplyDeleteAlso Dr.Dog excellent opening comments!
Bro. Rod,
ReplyDeleteYou're right brother. We as christians definitely need to stand up more to the culture around us and conform less. What's sad is the fact that the same tolerance we demand for other faiths we don't demand for our own. BTW it's not about standing up for our rights, it's about speaking the truth to this world.
Please tell the whole story: The sign had been vandalized with the approximation of a circle with the word "NAZIS" in it and with a line through the "circle." Law enforcement saw this as "rachetting up" the tensions by calling the Dove Outreach Center people "nazis." This is the reason for the visit by the deputies and the paint job with the owner's permission.
ReplyDeleteSorry, but where are you getting the quote "rachetting up"...I don't see that in the story. It doesn't say the sheriff's office painted over it over fear of rachetting things up. It says they called the land owner, not Mr. Jones, to get permission to paint over Mr. Jones' sign.
ReplyDeleteThe point is the Sheriff's Office is actively putting pressure on Jones for him not to exercise his free speech rights.
The sheriff's office announces to the public their plans of charging him for security. Why would they charge him in the first place, and why would they choose to announce to the press that they will do that? Is that not "rachetting up" the rhetoric to incide anger towards Mr. Jones, by claiming his free speech is going to cost tens of thousands of dollars and he will be charged?
Why not just send him a bill afterwards? Because they are trying to bully Mr. Jones.
I lived in Gainesville in the early 90s and I remember the issue of gay pride marches in Gainesville. There were many people opposed to gays having a parade, and "gay pride week", and putting their banners up all over town. But the authorities didn't cave in to the pressure, they didn't announce to the press that they were going to charge them for extra security, they instead, protected their rights to assemble, to put up signs in accordance with the law, etc.
I too hope that Mr. Jones decides not to burn the Qurans, but at this point it still seems in limbo.
I just hope that it is out of his conviction, and not because Obama, the military, the FBI, and the Sheriff are all applying pressure on him.
I didn't say the information I gave about the sign's being vandalized was in the newspaper story. Believe me, I read it. TV-20 had several stories after the sign was erected, at least one before it was defaced, one after, and one after it was painted. I'm not sure these stories are on their web page or not, but the reason for the painting of the sign was the word "nazis."
ReplyDeleteThe sheriff's office is charging Dove for security?
ReplyDeleteA public trial concerning coach Rick Patino and his one time concubine concluded this summer. This trial cost my city 16 million.
Why aren't they charging Patino and his concubine? Patino can well afford it!
of course, Patino is more popular than ever and still stinking rich!
Anon 8:49
ReplyDeleteDo you not find it a little strange that it was sheriffs deputies that painted over the sign? When have you ever heard of deputies talking to the owner of private property and painting over graffiti?
Muslims....humph!
ReplyDeleteStraight off the Drudgereport.com.
ReplyDeleteArticle Published June 18,2007 by:Flashback!
The practitioners of the religion of peace showing just how tolerant they are too the beliefs of others in their contries:::
The beginning of the atricle reads;
"After defeating their rivals in Palestinian Authority Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah movement, Muslim extremists are focusing their attacks on Christians in Gaza City. Christians in Gaza City have issued an appeal to the
international community and a plea for protection against the increased attacks by Muslim extremists"...
I remember no worldwide outcry over those events???
Love[Jude 3]!!!
I hate to say this, but this enire topic is getting comical.
ReplyDeleteLast night, the pastor said he would not burn the Koran because he reached a deal for the mosque not to be built in NYC.
But then, the mosque builders in NYC say there is no such deal, and that they would never agree to such a deal anyway.
So now I hear the burning may be back on.
I am sorry, but this really is getting funny.
The Muslims are protesting all over the world now - in the street yada, yada, yada. All because of this eccentric pastor and his tiny congregation.
Gee, we were doing so well before this pastor came along. I had not seen a "Death to America" rally for the last 3 days or so. Now this pastor comes and blows all the progress we had been making.
And from another angle, it took all the force of the press, the local NYC and federal government to issue pronouncements that the mosque building was a First Amendment issue, and therefore had to be supported and not spoke against. (Even though no government action had or could be taken to prevent the mosque's building. The objections were simply on the basis of "It's insenstive and not right to build it 'in the shadow' of the ground zero.")
But now, a weird pastor and his 50 person church want to burn a Koran. And the full force of the local and federal government are trying to shut that down. The burning is also insensitive, but it truly is a First Amendment issue. Flag Burning, draft card burning etc.
The various inconsistencies and cultural and legal arguments are all swirling.
Only in America!
Louis
Louis - I agree.
ReplyDeleteI remember George Carlin and his funny news headlines he would say in his routine, one of them was:
"A man has barricaded himself inside his house; however, he is not armed and nobody is paying any attention to him."
We need to pay this guy no attention. Let him burn the Korans. The local sheriff and police department could have helped defuse this by telling everyone that while they hope he does not burn the Korans, that they are charged with the responsibility of protecting rights of citizens including Mr. Jones. They did it for the gays. They did it I think even for the potheads who congregate once a year in Gainesville.
Where are the leaders in our country, other than Bloomberg, who are speaking the truth that while this guy is an idiot, he has a right to be an idiot and he has a right to burn the Koran, and we should protect that and not allow mobs in Gainesville to threaten him and shut him down.
Are we really that afraid of Muslim extremists that we forget the First Amendment, that unpopular speech is the speech that most needs protection?
"After defeating their rivals in Palestinian Authority Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah movement, Muslim extremists are focusing their attacks on Christians in Gaza City. Christians in Gaza City have issued an appeal to the
ReplyDeleteinternational community and a plea for protection against the increased attacks by Muslim extremists"...
Many Christians do not care about their brothers and sisters in Christ. they only care about being nice to Muslims so they will like us. The problem is, the nicer we are, the more they expect us to give up our rights.
that is how bully's operate.
"Are we really that afraid of Muslim extremists that we forget the First Amendment, that unpopular speech is the speech that most needs protection?"
ReplyDeleteMaybe. but I think it goes deeper than that. Folks really think we can pacify Muslims. They think appeasing them will make them nicer. If we give them what they want, they won't kill us.
We are creating a monster who will demand "his rights" that take away the rights of the others.
I'm not sure these stories are on their web page or not, but the reason for the painting of the sign was the word "nazis."
ReplyDeleteSeptember 10, 2010 8:49 AM
___________________________________
I wouldn't be so sure. It seems the real reason for painting the sign was the offensive and threatening circle with the line through it. The Koran burning and word "nazi" is fine. But boy when some people see a circle with a line through it...now that is threatening. Perhaps they felt nazi's were being threatened, and that nazi's should be careful since some anonymous person put a circle with a slash through it over their name. Really, some people, including preachers, their wives, attorneys and high ranking sheriff officials, actually say they believe this. hee hee.
No need for all this hoopla. Soud could have just written the guy a harsh letter and then issued an intimidating deacon's resolution, then had sheriff's officials trespass him and his wife from the church property. That would have solved the problem. Oh, never mind. Maybe not.
ReplyDeleteWylie,
ReplyDeleteWe must uphold our first ammendment rights, then we will deal with Christian morals and pricnciples. By all means, get the governmental issues straight. Much more important than walking in a Christian Way.
I don't care about Mr. Jones' constitutional rights. He is inciting the entire Muslim community around the world and he should not be allow to do it.
That's a period at the end of that statement.
Pastors think they are being "attacked" and under "persecution" when one Christian blogger blogs about their abuses. This discussion reminds me that some day we will all see real persecution. Not for burning Korans, that is nonsense. But for merely claiming that Islam is of the devil, or saying the Koran is not the word of God. Or not honoring the Koran. These pastors, if they indeed preach the truth, will be the first to face persecution. Then there won't be any discipline committee to help them and ironically, the sheriff officer paid to protect them, may be shutting them down and sending them a bill for their expenses in protecting them.
ReplyDeleteA religious blog from a brother in Christ will be the least of their worries. Today, burning of korans is the line not to cross. What will it be tomorrow?
Serious question about Moslims view of the Koran. Is it the actual leather binder and paper pages inside that are sacred? Or is it the black ink that transforms the leather, paper and ink into a sacred object? What if my Koran is a paperback version? Still sacred? What if I read an online version. Is my computer now sacred? Or if I have it on my cell phone app? Why is an object (a bound book of pages) worthy of the respect and honor that only God is worthy of?
ReplyDeleteCan a store sell the Koran and not give it the most exalted position in the store? Can it sell them on the bottom shelf? Let dust get on it? Set other books on top of it?
Seriously. How do we answer these questions so as not to be offensive to a Muslim?
I don't care about Mr. Jones' constitutional rights. He is inciting the entire Muslim community around the world and he should not be allow to do it.
ReplyDelete___________________________________
Amen. I say the same thing about your pastor and his bull**** that Jesus is the only way to heaven. That offends the majority of the world and your pastor should not be allowed to say it. PERIOD.
And the same for your speech on this blog about what a person should be able to do or not. Your comments are offensive and you should not be allowed to disagree here. PERIOD.
What bothers me is the hypocrisy when it comes to First Amendment rights. If a Muslim was burning a Bible, law enforcement would be dispatched to protect him and the new media would be fully supporting him.
ReplyDeleteIf someone paint a derogatory comment on the sign where the Muslim announces his intentions then the FBI would be investigating it as a hate crime.
Equal protection my foot!
Oh and please do not burn the book.
Here's the only true way of looking at this...the Moslems hate the Jews. God said that He will bless those that bless the Jews and curse those that hate the Jews....enought said.
ReplyDeleteJesus is the only way to Heaven. That's not only my right to say but my obligation.
ReplyDeleteAs far as being accused of being more concerned about 1st amendment rights than Christian morals, one only has to go back and read my first statement. I clearly said Jones was being offensive and that burning the Koran is not in the spirit of Christianity. That would be a period at the end of the statement.
Isn't that an irony. A conservative southern baptist pastor being asked to get help from liberal organizations.
ReplyDeleteSorry ANON: He is a Pentecostal Preacher, not any kind of Baptist or anything else.
This blog is full of racists! I may be muslim but I am human too!
ReplyDelete"Serious question about Moslims view of the Koran. Is it the actual leather binder and paper pages inside that are sacred? Or is it the black ink that transforms the leather, paper and ink into a sacred object? What if my Koran is a paperback version? Still sacred? What if I read an online version. Is my computer now sacred? Or if I have it on my cell phone app? Why is an object (a bound book of pages) worthy of the respect and honor that only God is worthy of?"
ReplyDeleteThe Koran must be held with 2 hands and must never touch the floor or taken into an 'unclean' place. If you want legalism and hatred, just study Islam.
Check out Fitna. Produced by a former member of Holland's parliament who is sounding the warning about Muslims in Europe.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgQdZgojOFI
Educate yourself.
You can feel the hatred here! It started with the lynching of Ergun Caner, Pres. Obama, and now you are advocating the burning of the Quran.
ReplyDeleteWhat's next...National Hate on Mac day or Let's burn a Drum Set in a Contemporary Church Sunday?
Come on people, open your eyes!
Your being led by people that can't handle the truth and want to substitute the Bible for their own Ignorance. It's the Wizard of Oz all over again and you can click your heels all you want to but this ain't Kansas anymore!
"This blog is full of racists! I may be muslim but I am human too!"
ReplyDeleteSeptember 10, 2010 4:20 PM
Anon are you telling me that Muslims around the world are faultless and without prejudices against other religions,countries and cultures???
Of most acts of terrorism around the world for the last decade,what group of people espousing what form of religion are responsible???
When the Taliban took power in Afganistan,what is one of the first acts they committed concerning the religious artifacts and expressions of other religions?
Am I to imagine that the emperor has clothes???
The Bible predicted in Genesis the characteristics and the deameanor of the descendants of Ishmael[Genesis chap.16]!!!
Again the Bible proves itself too be the only reliable,inspired,inerrant,infallable,faultless,pure source of Devinely revealed "TRUTH"[PS.19;PS.119;Isa.46:8-10;John 14:6;2Tim.3:15-17;HEB.4:12-13;2Pet.1:16-21;2John 7-11;Rev.1:1-3!!!
"PERIOD END OF STORY"!!!
In Love!!!
Bro Rod,
ReplyDeleteYou will be on your rug one day pointing towards the East praying in Arabic!
I am offering you Hope and all I get is Hate!
Muslims are peaceful, loving, simple people that are not on American TV wanting to Burn Bibles.
May Allah have mercy on your soul Rod!
Would you feel the same if they were burning the American Flag? Would you feel the same way if they burned the Holy Bible? Really?
ReplyDelete"Bro Rod,
ReplyDeleteYou will be on your rug one day pointing towards the East praying in Arabic!
I am offering you Hope and all I get is Hate!
Muslims are peaceful, loving, simple people that are not on American TV wanting to Burn Bibles.
May Allah have mercy on your soul Rod!"
September 10, 2010 5:40 PM
Sorry Anon! You may be just kidding?
But if not,I have already been "chosen" and am a "citizen of an Eternal Kingdom" that is incorruptable,unblemished,undefiled and will not fade away[1Pet.1:3-9]!!!
In Love!!!
bcm - absolutely, I would feel the same if they were burning the Bible, the book of Mormon, the American Flag, etc.
ReplyDeleteMaybe Louis or some other lawyer can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the Supreme Court has established that acts like burning "symbols" like a flag (and I assume a book would be the same - the Koran being a symbol of Islam) is protected "speech". Thus, it is deserving of protection by the government under the first amendment. If we don't LIKE that speech, we have a right to express our displeasure, but the govt should remain impartial.
I'll bet Fred Phelps is jealous he didn't think of it first.
ReplyDeleteWell, here you go!
"You can feel the hatred here! It started with the lynching of Ergun Caner, Pres. Obama, and now you are advocating the burning of the Quran.
ReplyDelete"
Can you provide the quotes here that advocate the burning of the Quran?
Anon 7:51--Read the headline of this Blog...."Burn a Quran Day"
ReplyDeleteThis Blog is advocating the burning of the Quran! This is outrageous!!!
How about a "don't burn a Quran Day"?
I have shown this title of the Blog to my friends and they have asked me..."these people that put this blog together call themselves Christians?"
Did Jesus burn Books? Did Jesus eat and drink wine with people that were not "theologically correct"?
You know the answer....You just don't want to admit it because your goal is not to be like Jesus...Your goal is to be a barrier to people coming to Jesus!
Anon 7:51--Read the headline of this Blog...."Burn a Quran Day"
ReplyDeleteThis Blog is advocating the burning of the Quran! This is outrageous!!!
How about a "don't burn a Quran Day"?
I have shown this title of the Blog to my friends and they have asked me..."these people that put this blog together call themselves Christians?"
Did Jesus burn Books? Did Jesus eat and drink wine with people that were not "theologically correct"?
You know the answer....You just don't want to admit it because your goal is not to be like Jesus...Your goal is to be a barrier to people coming to Jesus!
September 10, 2010 8:24 PM
You have to be kidding? You are making the point that Muslims hate freedom of speech for others.
Will you publicly denounce the evils committed in the name of Islam. Will you denounce honor killings as your beliefs call them? Will you admit that a Mosque near the twin towers is insulting to the victims since MUSLIMS who were recruited while living in the WEST flew planes into them?
Just because we are Christians does not mean we are willing to give up our civil rights or allow special consideration for Islam that even Christianity does not get here. What next? You want it to be legal to kill Muslim women you think are too Westernized?
Get out of your bondage. Jesus Christ is freedom from evil.
If you claim that not all Muslims strap on suicide belts or hate Americans (while they live here) then why can't we claim that not all Christians WANT to burn a Koran?
At least our New Covenant with Christ does not advocate the killing of unbelievers as your Koran does.
BTW: You can burn my bible all you want because God is REAL...not a book of ink and paper...He entered time and space as Jesus Christ and took the punishment we deserve.
Think about it. Jesus Christ, Son of the Father God gave His life on earth for OUR SINS so we could have eternal life with HIM.
Your beliefs say that your human sons must give their lives killing innocent people for your false god.
That is evil.
We serve a God of Mercy and Grace and He has open arms for you to trust in Jesus Christ as the way, the truth and the LIFE.
"Did Jesus burn Books? Did Jesus eat and drink wine with people that were not "theologically correct"?
ReplyDeleteSeptember 10, 2010 8:24 PM
Anon "you are in err not knowing the Scriptures or the power of God"!!!
Yes Jesus did sit and eat with those who were not theologically correct;
But don't fool yourself for a moment;Jesus called for repentence from sin and belief only in Him!!!
He told theologically incorrect Nicodemus that "you must be born from above in order to see the Kingdom of Heaven[John 3]!!!
The Lord healed a paralyzed in John 5,and told him "to go and "sin no more"!!!
Christ told the religious leaders of Israel in John 8 that "if they did not believe in Him,they would die{perish)in their sins"!!!
Jesus told a woman caught in adultery "neither do I condenm you,go and "SIN NO MORE"[John 8:1-11]!!!
You are in err if you think that Christ
just sat,ate and drank!
He called for men and women to repent from sin,disobedience and disbelief,to believing the theology of the Gospel and believe in Him "ALONE FOR SALVATION";HIM ALONE!!!
In Love!!!
This blog is full of racists! I may be muslim but I am human too!
ReplyDeleteSeptember 10, 2010 4:20 PM
Mr. Muslim, it is muslims that are the greatest bigots and haters in the world, so stop your accusations. Your holy book, as it were, calls Jews, monkeys and pigs, it sanctions death to unbelievers, your high potentate and prophet was a pedophile. That's in your koran and you are also allowed to lie to non-beiliviers. When he wasn't murdering and robbing caravans, he was shaking down the local populations for loot. Now there's a role model for the world.
Your idolatry is obvious, you worship a book of paper pages and ink. Apparently, your moon god has to rely on this paper and scribble to sustain himself in the world.
Muslims have no love and compassion, just blind obedience to some traditions. You relegate the Saviour of Mankind to some lower status under this plundering prophet. Dude, that is blasphemy of the highest order. Wake up.
So like, where are the muslim hospitals, soup kitchens, orphanages, half-way houses to help the poor and unlovely people? Such self righteous smuggery is way out of line with your pagan moon god. Allan was just one of the many pagan gods Moh. chose to emulate.
Really now, where is any mercy or grace with your god, his prophet or the followers of same. Why are churches and synagogues absolutely forbidden in muslim countries? Such bigotry and you wish to howl about your being offended? Please, step back and take a look at the big picture, compare Moh. to Jesus of the Bible. Not the mormon bible or other cult bibles, but the unaltered scriptures.
But you say, 'the Bible is corrupted, the koran is more accurate and faithful. Any god that cannot preserve his word is pretty weak, right? Who is to say the koran is not courrupted by all the handlers from the centuries past.Your koran says on one hand, respect people of the book, then it says do not be friends with Christians or Jews. How convenient, pick the verse you feel like following or is most convenient.
Dude, you need to seek the Truth, compare everything among all the faiths and see the Christ Jesus has no equal. Period.
Drop you preconceptions and bias and just do an objective study. It won't be easy or pleasant to face Truth, but your eternity is riding on it. You up to it?
Afraid you might find exactly what you are looking for? Namely a Holy God that loves and forgives wretched sinners. Just like me. ANd you.
Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me. Our country has fallen for Satan's lies. All he can muster up is division and he has been doing it since the Garden of Eden. Adults are acting like first and second graders and it has gotten us nowhere. Where are the men to stand in the gap? Have they all fallen asleep or have they all gone into hiding?
ReplyDeleteAnon 7:51--Read the headline of this Blog...."Burn a Quran Day"
ReplyDeleteThis Blog is advocating the burning of the Quran! This is outrageous!!!
Excuse me, is English not your native language? No problem if it isn't. I'm just trying to understand how someone could make such a mistake. Or do you just have difficulty with English comprehension?
"Burn a Quran Day" was what Terry Jones called the "ceremony" he was going to lead tomorrow. Not unlike most of the media outlets and a lot of other bloggers, Watchdog was merely discussing the story.
What I took away from the article was that Watchdog is defending Jones' right to free speech which, whether we like it or not, is protected by the First Amendment. He gave the example of the "Gay Pride" parade in Gainesville and how, offensive as he might find it, the First Amendment still gives them the right to "express" themselves. I didn't get the impression Watchdog was actually endorsing Jones burning a Quran, just his right to do so.
What I cannot believe is that one rogue nut leading a church with a membership of approximately 50 people who was threatening to have a book burning has totally taken over the news the past week. The best way this whole thing could have been handled would have been for everyone to ignore them.
Come to think of it, I bet Mac and the JSO are thinking that's how they should have handled the Watchdog, too.
:-)
Father Manuel Musallem, head of Gaza's Latin church, told the AP that Muslims have ransacked, burned and looted a school and convent that are part of the Gaza Strip's small Romany Catholic community. He told the AP that crosses were broken, damage was done to a statue of Jesus, and at the Rosary Sister School and nearby convent, prayer books were burned.
ReplyDeleteGunmen used the roof of the school during the fighting, and the convent was "desecrated," Mussalem told the AP.
"Nothing happens by mistake these days," he said.
Where are the moose limbs that whine about burning some korans. Look what your brothers are doing in the above article. As for me having to bow to the east for praying to your mecca town and me speaking arabic, not a chance Moe Hammet, not a chance.
The First Amendment does not prevent the general public from protesting or speaking out against a group's or individual's exploitation of the right to free speech. It only enjoins government from interfering with that exercise. We can, and should, protest the speech and/or actions of religious extremists, whomever they might be. However, we must always fight for the right of all people to make stupid statements..., even while we loudly protest their speech.
ReplyDelete"Afraid you might find exactly what you are looking for? Namely a Holy God that loves and forgives wretched sinners. Just like me. and you."
ReplyDeleteSeptember 10, 2010 10:44 PM
Anon;excellent post!!!
Thanks!
Dog:
ReplyDeleteYou are correct. I believe a court would see the burning of the Koran, like any book, religious or not, under the circumstances presented by Jones, the same way it would see the burning of a flag, a Bible, a secular book etc. All would be protected by the First Amendment.
New BBC, my running group and I said the same thing about the Westwood Baptist Church and Fred Phelps this morning. Jones is sucking all of the oxygen out of the air with this stunt.
National Review Online has a couple of great articles on this topic. One by Jonah Goldberg and the other by Victor Davis Hanson (sp?).
Louis
" One by Jonah Goldberg and the other by Victor Davis Hanson (sp?)."
ReplyDeleteGoing there now...I love Lucianne's boy!
Quaran Issue:
ReplyDeleteWhere was the media when in May of 2009, the military incinerated Bibles that had been sent to Afganistan because Muslims were offended by their mere presence?
Anon. 1210, 8:35 a.m.
ReplyDeleteYou really believe that? Where's your proof. Real proof...not the creative imaginings of someone more interested in a conspiracy theory than truth about the disposition of Bibles in the Pashto and Dari languages sent to American soldiers, for distribution to local Afghani people. Giving out those Bibles placed soldiers in direct violation of General Article #1. Yes, those "foreign language" Bibles were collected and discarded...NO, they were not piled-up and burned. More than likely, they were boxed-up, placed in a dumpster and hauled away. Could they have been burned with the contents of the dumpster, perhaps. By the way, the incident happened somewhere between 2006 and 2008...it was reported on Al Jazeera in May of 2009. So, even if it did happen as claimed...and IT DID NOT, it was on Mr. Bush's watch, not Mr. Obama's. For what it is worth, this entire episode was initially "reported" by a angry, former Navy chaplain who was dismissed from the Chaplain Corps for continually violating direct orders (although he says it was for "praying in Jesus' name"). Folks, I know, first hand, that is not true. In my opinion that individual, I will not call him a gentleman, has less credibility than Mr. Caner. In many ways, "they are cut from the same cloth." Both were blessed with great gifts to be used in God's kingdom, but squandered those gifts on the altar of self-interest. This "burned Bible" story is one of that disgraced chaplain's attempts to keep his name in the public eye. At no time was he even near Afghanistan during his brief Navy experience.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ib9rofXQl6w
ReplyDeleteThis is a must see if you want to be educated about Islam. It is only 8 min but show 3 things about Islam that everyone should know. And each one is completely true and folks would know if they would only do their homework.
This video is produced by a non Christian, non Jew so he cannot be accused of being a hateful fundy.
I have been trying to help people understand that Islam is an ideology that comes with it's own civil laws it must obey over the civil laws of the Western country they live in. These laws conflict with our Bill of Rights.
Do you think you will win Muslims to Christ by being Rude and Nasty?
ReplyDeleteIn Afganistan, when they bulldozed a Christian Church and shut it down, the Christians of that Church served Tea to the workers that leveled their Church!
Did Jesus picket? Did Jesus write on Blogs or would He?
Your title: Burn a Quran Day is inflamatory, please choose better language next time!
We need better hearts on this Blog, my, we have some mean people here!
Some of you people need a good dose of Bible!
ReplyDeleteHave you ever read Luke 6? It would probably be a good idea!
Return a Blessing for a Cursing, turn the other cheek, those kinds of things you Bible Thumping, Spiritual Clint Eastwood acting, let's chop off their ears, I hate Muslim, so called Christians need to see.
Your Jesus doesn't act like the Biblical Jesus...are you really Saved?
Your Jesus doesn't act like the Biblical Jesus...are you really Saved?
ReplyDeleteFrom your rant, I would ask the same of you. Where exactly do you get your sanctimony to say thoses things. Are you indeed saved by the Blood? Or are you a muslim-ist seeking to bait Christians?
Come on guys,
ReplyDeleteAll this Pastor wanted was his 15 minutes of fame and got it.
Now he can get back to his flock of 50 sheep and continue his little CULT.
Baaaaa
Your title: Burn a Quran Day is inflamatory, please choose better language next time!
ReplyDeleteI realize this seems to be a difficult concept for some people to grasp, but again, "Burn a Quran Day" is not Watchdog's language. He's only the messenger. Don't believe it?
Google it!
Some of you people need a good dose of Bible!
ReplyDeleteHave you ever read Luke 6? It would probably be a good idea!
Return a Blessing for a Cursing, turn the other cheek, those kinds of things you Bible Thumping, Spiritual Clint Eastwood acting, let's chop off their ears, I hate Muslim, so called Christians need to see.
Your Jesus doesn't act like the Biblical Jesus...are you really Saved?
September 13, 2010 11:07 AM
I am trying to figure out how your words communicate what you say is true...exactly how is your comment 'turning the other cheek'?
Do you think you will win Muslims to Christ by being Rude and Nasty?
ReplyDeleteIn Afganistan, when they bulldozed a Christian Church and shut it down, the Christians of that Church served Tea to the workers that leveled their Church!
Did Jesus picket? Did Jesus write on Blogs or would He?
Your title: Burn a Quran Day is inflamatory, please choose better language next time!
We need better hearts on this Blog, my, we have some mean people here!
September 13, 2010 10:19 AM
But your comment is rude and nasty!
Do you think you will win Muslims to Christ by being Rude and Nasty?
ReplyDeleteAmen Brother!! I get sick and tired of reading these Blog's from so called "Men of God" like John Wylie, "Thy Peace"..and it is anything but peaceful!!
It seems like some of you are "Christian Jihadists", you rant and rave about how Muslims are evil, Ergun is evil, Mac is evil....YET YOU....
advocate burning Qurans
advocate persecuting Christian leaders
advocate hateful language
advocate self-righteousness
I AM GLAD I'M SAVED BECAUSE IF YOU WERE MY EXAMPLE...I WOULD SAY...."NO THANK YOU"!
I certainly don't advocate buring Qurans. The title on this blog is just describing what Terry Jones in Florida is calling it. If you read the article you'll see that.
ReplyDeleteIn Afganistan, when they bulldozed a Christian Church and shut it down, the Christians of that Church served Tea to the workers that leveled their Church!
ReplyDeleteI call "bull" on that story.
Christians in Afghanistan >> A Community of Faith and Fear
Boots on the Ground >> Christian Persecution in Afghanistan?
The Christian Post >> Interview: Interserve USA Executive Director on Afghanistan Mission
I AM GLAD I'M SAVED BECAUSE IF YOU WERE MY EXAMPLE...I WOULD SAY...."NO THANK YOU"!
ReplyDeleteDitto for you, sadly.
The Koran is the most vile, evil piece of pig-filth that Satan ever vomitted forth upon the earth.
ReplyDeleteIt has produced billions of demon-posessed animals who are either burning in the depths of hell, or on the way there.
It created a 1400 year campaign of blood and conquest.
Wherever it triumphs, Christians are stomped underfott by those satanic-creatures.
It is currently the greatest threat to both church and state here in America.
Yet ignorant, pathetic, so-called "christians" (sic) are whining about how "hateful" we sound.
WELL, TOO STINKING BAD!!!!
As long as there is a breath left in my body, I shall do everything within my power to oppose the evil force of Islam. And if you gutless wimps who call yourself "christians" have a problem with it, then that is YOUR problem and YOU will have to deal with it.
DEATH BEFORE DHIMMITUDE!!!
Do you think you will win Muslims to Christ by being Rude and Nasty?
ReplyDeleteAmen Brother!! I get sick and tired of reading these Blog's from so called "Men of God" like John Wylie, "Thy Peace"..and it is anything but peaceful!!
It seems like some of you are "Christian Jihadists", you rant and rave about how Muslims are evil, Ergun is evil, Mac is evil....YET YOU....
advocate burning Qurans
advocate persecuting Christian leaders
advocate hateful language
advocate self-righteousness
I AM GLAD I'M SAVED BECAUSE IF YOU WERE MY EXAMPLE...I WOULD SAY...."NO THANK YOU"!
September 13, 2010 5:24 PM
Your commment is:
persecuting Christians
hateful language
self-righteousness
"Thy Peace"..and it is anything but peaceful!!
ReplyDeleteI was only supporting Pastor Terry Jones' First Amendment Rights. I do not favor any burning of the Korans. But reading the Koran and loving the moslems.
ATTENTION ALL READERS---AN EXAMPLE OF THE WAY THESE "BLOG POLICE" LIKE TO PLAY WITH THE FACTS!!!
ReplyDeleteHey New BBC, what do you like on your "Bull"--- read it and weep:
Google this if you dare "Brother"--july 17 1973 church destroyed in Kabul
"The Muslim Government destroyed the Christian Church building in Kabul, after previously having given permission to build it.
Police, workmen and bulldozers were sent to destroy the Church. The congregation, instead of opposing, offered them tea and cookies"
NEW BBC---PLEASE CHECK YOU FACTS AND CHECK YOU HEART BEFORE YOU START CALLING HISTORICAL EVENTS "BULL"
It seems like some of you are "Christian Jihadists", you rant and rave about how Muslims are evil, Ergun is evil, Mac is evil....YET YOU....
ReplyDeleteSir, you need to get the big picture here. Your acrimony is really uncalled for:
'Ergun is evil':Actually he is a big fat liar. It's well documented. Yet you hold him to a higher esteem than the integrity of the gospel and Lord's good name. Kind of sad to see that.
'Mac is evil': Come on, Mac is a bully who used his influence to squash any questioning of his authority. Like Ergun, he says one thing but does the other. I reference his book warning not to take big gifts because it has a corrupting effect. But there he goes. How about his unbiblical tactics against Tom Rich and his family. This thug is costing Tom a lot, more than money too. Thuggery is thuggery.
Why don't you stop the hero worship, they are just abusing the office of pastor, kind of like this current president.
Now, you are either a muslim plant, trying to bait Christians, or a baptis elitist that wants no controversy to their comfortable arrangement of things. Kind of like the corruption in the mission board and the sex offenders in the baptist church ranks.
Really now, just where is your allegiance?
Anon 11:07 anonymous. You need to take that idea to the pastors who fail to preach or practice it. I think you will find that they do not like to take part in turning the cheek quite as much as you do. Try it on your pastor this week and see if he will do so.
ReplyDeleteAnon 9:37,
ReplyDeleteUnlike some, I am willing to admit when I'm wrong, and in this case I was wrong. Or let me put it in words you might better relate to... I WAS WRONG!!! I did "Google" for this story at length when I read your original comment and could find no confirmation of it. You didn't say it was in Kabul, only in Afghanistan, so that's what I Googled -- church, Afghanistan, etc. You know, you could have saved me the trouble of all that Googling, established some respect for once, and provided a couple of links since your screaming in all caps and triple exclamation points about people's motives and "hearts" without a shred of documentation or proof doesn't exactly make you the most credible source I've read.
I read several accounts of the 1973 destruction of the last Christian church in Afghanistan. I couldn't have told you later that it was in Kabul since that wasn't the detail I was seeking, but I did remember the year, 1973. However, in none of the accounts that I read was there any mention of the Christians serving tea and cookies to the soldiers and workers who were demolishing their church. From what I read in other articles, it seems Afghan soldiers would have been much more likely to shoot them on the spot than to have stood around eating cookies and sipping tea.
Now that I searched for church, Kabul, and 1973 I found three similar accounts in which this part was mentioned. I'll even provide the links:
Still paying the price?
The Story of Zia Nodrat
What happened when the Afghan Government Bulldozed the House of God
Thank you for correcting me. I apologize for not researching this better. If I might borrow a quote, it was a mistake of the mind, not the heart.
I must ask though. That was almost 40 years ago and marked the destruction of the last church in Afghanistan. Why are there no churches in Afghanistan today? Where are all those "tolerant" Muslims? Why are Christians being persecuted and killed there and in other majority Muslim countries?
And perhaps more importantly, what makes you think that Muslims, if they were to become the majority population in this country (and with their current birth rates they're on track for being the majority in a few more decades), wouldn't vote to impose Sharia law here and treat Christians the same way they treat them in their own countries today?
I hope you read the articles I linked to earlier, especially the second one. Here they are again if you missed them:
Celestial Junk >> Why the Peaceful Majority is Irrelevant
Why the Peaceful Majority Might be Dangerous
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteNEW BBC, that's not the only thing that you get wrong! How about the things you have said about Steve G?
ReplyDeleteWhen you call historical events "Bull" maybe you need to go back and re-read some of your other articles...that word...Bull...it applies to a lot of things you say!
Anon 10:41,
ReplyDeleteWould you mind sending me some examples of things I'VE written in articles that are wrong so I can correct my errors? I strive to be accurate, but I'm only human.
There's an e-mail address in my profile so you can even send me the "long" list and we won't hijack Watchdog's blog. You may, of course, as always, remain anonymous.
Thanks!