"I wrote something to the church: for Diotrephes, who loves to be first among them...I will call attention to his deeds which he does, unjustly accusing us with wicked words, and not satisfied with this, he himself does not receive the brethren either, and he forbids those who desire to do so and puts them out of the church." (3 John 9-10)----------------------
The video below is a bit disturbing, it is of Perry Noble, Senior Pastor of NewSpring Church, calling his "non-committed" church members "spiritual hoes" ("hoe" of course slang for "whore"), and then announcing at the very end of the service that those church members who don't "get involved" in church ministry by December 2010 are "liars" and will be purged from the rolls of the church.[Can you hear the questions in the car on the way home: "Mommy, what is a 'hoe'? Maybe you are a 'hoe', Mommy! Are we 'hoes' like the pastor said?"]
And best of all, Noble declared that God told him that morning to announce that the rolls of the church needed to be purged. Yikes. I would be nervous, very nervous, when the pastor announces that God told him to start purging the church rolls. I might next be looking for small cups of flavored Kool-Aid, and announcements for satellite churches in Guyana. When a guy thinks he has the authority to make these pronouncements on a whim because God told him that morning, without discussing it with church lay leaders, your cult radar should go off.
You might remember Perry Noble from a post I made earlier this year on tithing, where he gets on his people because church leaders "looked" at the giving records of the members and found 90% of the congregation is "robbing God" by not forking over at least 10% of their income to his church.
Why bother showing this video? Well, Perry Noble is a rock star amongst what are called the "emergent" churches - those non-traditional, what we might call "seeker friendly" or "purpose driven" churches. Noble founded NewSpring 10 years ago, and it has experienced explosive growth, thousands of members on multiple campuses in South Carolina. Noble has preached at Rick Warren's church. Noble holds conferences where pastors come to learn how his church has experienced such rapid growth. Noble is a harsh, harsh critic of the traditional evangelical church, criticizing everything from Sunday School to deacon boards to old fashioned pastor's wive's hairdos.
There are some things I like about Perry Noble and NewSpring - unlike some of his harshest critics I do believe he preaches the gospel. Noble says things that I think other mega church pastors think, but wouldn't dare speak publicly. But Perry at times borders on the cultic and spiritually abusive. This is an example of such behavior - and Perry and his church are the "gold standard" amongst emergent churches so this sort of behavior is troublesome.
About the "purging the rolls" comment: purging of rolls might be a good idea for many Baptist churches who have "members" that haven't been seen or heard from in years. But Perry is doing here what I have criticized other bullying mega church pastors of doing: trying to take the place of the Holy Spirit by bullying and intimidating people into doing or giving as the pastor wants them to. Here Perry says effectively serve God according to how NewSpring and Perry Noble define "service", else they will effectively kick you out of the church. As I said before, he wants his people to know HE HIMSELF made this decision, AFTER GOD TOLD HIM. Scary stuff.
Perry does say that purged members can still attend (gee, thanks Perry - allowing us to attend your church, how charitable) - so I suppose they won't be taking tresspass papers out on members for being bad Christians, or for "church misconduct".
And this past Sunday Noble told his congregation that when he said "purged" he meant "placed on inactive status".
That makes sense - after all, how could you send tithing envelopes to people who are "purged" from your membership roll? :)
If you want to watch the entire service, go here.
This is not much different than Chip Ingram who said recently (on the radio broadcast this week) that those in his church who don't have an active ministry within 18 months of attending his church need to leave as they are taking up someone else's parking space and someone else's pew space.
ReplyDeleteMillstone hangers, all of them!
I love it when Perry cusses! He is real, relevant, and a true riot! We need more preachers who give us straight talk! No punches pulled and if you don't like being called a "spiritual Ho"....don't act like one!
ReplyDeleteAnon - sure, if there are spiritual "hoes" in the church, then we can say Perry and his staff who are collecting the money and making a living off of them, they are the spiritual pimps!
ReplyDeletePerry "The Pimp" Noble. Do you think he would like being called a "pimp"? Then why call people "hoes"?
Get real Anon.
This message from this young pup is disgusting!
ReplyDeleteA great message to run people off. After they critique & purge I surely do hope they adjust their number present 10,000 count - would expect a dramatic drop. :>)
Interesting how these churches sit in judgement and say the are going to purge those they feel don't fit into their perfect little box because they visually don't see inside the church an active ministry on the members part. Very judgmental as they have no clue what people do to serve the Lord behind closed doors.
These modern day churches are becoming "closed doors" - you only have the right to attend if you are paying your rent money to sit in the pews of a young pup preacher like Perry Noble.
As one of our favorite bloggers has said in the past, worse & worse.
Someone, please help me if I have misunderstood, but I thought "whores" were the ones who were paid for their services? Is this little boy's (Nobel's) church paying it's members to be involved? I doubt it. Following his own analogy, he is the one acting like a whore, or a "hoe" as he likes to say. The membership are just a bunch of sad, habit driven "Johns." This is all a sickening analogy, but it is the one trotted out by a childish preacher...with communication skills so limited that he retreats into his own unenlightened experience, rather that trying to bring his people to "the higher ground" of the Gospel. God have mercy.
ReplyDeleteI don't like crude language in the pulpit. Calling the people of God liars and "hoes"? Assuming that people who don't serve in one of his organized ministries are not ministering is really off track. We have a guy in our church who is never in some oraginzed ministry, but he is always helping people in and outside of the church, is that not ministry?
ReplyDeleteGet some steel in the weak spine of yours Jim! If you can't handle the heat Brother..find a new kitchen. I bet you go to one of those John Wesley Hymn singing, Organ piano playing, KJV version reading, Suit and Tie and Big Hat wearing, Front Porch Smoking, Hell Fire and Brimstone Preaching, Boring as Lawrence Welk type Churches.
ReplyDeleteNews Flash....this is 2010....not 1810!
Get with it Big Boy!
Interesting allusion since a “ho” by definition takes something that is a precious God given gift and perverts it for personal power and gain. Who does that make the “ho?”
ReplyDeleteDon’t know who was actually talking to this guy but I do know what God actually says, “I tell you, open your eyes and look at the fields! They are ripe for harvest.”
“Get some steel in the weak spine of yours Jim! If you can't handle the heat Brother..find a new kitchen. I bet you go to one of those John Wesley Hymn singing, Organ piano playing, KJV version reading, Suit and Tie and Big Hat wearing, Front Porch Smoking, Hell Fire and Brimstone Preaching, Boring as Lawrence Welk type Churches.”
ReplyDeleteAnd the problem with this would be?
What a joke.
ReplyDeleteYes he's disgusting - but what is more alarming is how many people follow him and pastors like him. It's sickening that anyone would be lining their pockets with their offerings.
I agree totally that this guy is out of line. It is scary how many pastors are the absolute authority among their congregations. This guy sounds like a little humility and gentleness would go a long way in reaching his people. Right or wrong, his church members sound to be right on course for most American church members. However, that doesn't call for such drastic measures as to verbally insult those in his church who for whatever reason aren't as involved as the pastor thinks they should be. I appreciate in some ways his boldness to address the issue of apathy among his church goers but can not get on board with the method in which he delivers his message.
ReplyDeleteWell, we know God spoke through a donkey once. Perhaps we've witnessed a miracle! Isn't it interesting how some harebrained idea pops into these guys' minds and it's always "God told me this"?
ReplyDeleteI agree with John Wylie's point that one does not have to be involved in any organized area of "a church" to be involved in ministry. There are people involved in all sorts of ministries that aren't associated with the churches where they're members. It's like "tithing." Many Christians give, some very generously, but it's not always to some demanding preacher and his little kingdom.
I'm curious what y'all think about purging the membership rolls of people who are MIA. I mean people who haven't darkened the door of the church in years, who've moved and can't be located, etc. Bellevue is often called a "30,000-member megachurch." By their own admission, the largest number of people ever on the roll was about three years ago when there were just over 29,000, so they've never been a "30,000-member church." And by their own admission, they had no idea where over 11,000 of those members were. That is, mail sent to their last known addresses was returned, and they had not attended SS in years. So at most, there were about 18,000 people on the rolls they could locate.
It was said that until about a decade earlier they had regularly purged the rolls of people they couldn't locate, but Adrian Rogers made the decision that they would no longer do that, so the membership roll just kept growing. They even had dead people on the rolls! (Of course they'd purge anyone they knew had died, but they didn't know about some because they were among the 11,000+ who were MIA.)
When you consider all the people they can't find and then include all the people who haven't moved their letters but haven't attended whom they've made zero attempt to contact (the "dechurched" as someone called them), I would be surprised if there are more than 10,000 legitimate members on the rolls of Bellevue Baptist Church.
Of course it wouldn't hurt them to try to contact inactive members whose mail isn't being returned, but that's not happening. So should they purge the rolls of those they can't find? How about those they have no interest in finding? I say after making a serious attempt to contact them and failing to do so, or contacting the ones they can and if they express a wish to be dropped, purge them. Perhaps if some who haven't come in a while thought someone actually cared, they might be willing to come back. Instead, the church is trying to recruit new members while ignoring several thousand of their existing members. What think y'all?
A preacher shouldn't cuss, nor should anybody else. Funny how he wants to impose some Bible but ignores other scriptures.
ReplyDeleteI don't know why people get bent out of shape about church styles. If you don't fit that mold, then find a church where you fit. How foolish is it of us, as mere humans, to think we all know the right way to worship God.
Worship Him in Spirit and Truth. If that's through Hymns or Praise or coats and ties or casual dress.
This guy could be called a "pompous ass" in my opinion.
ReplyDeleteHmmm. Where have I heard that before?
Hey, New, I know you say Bellevue has not purged its rolls but my 83 year old mother in law who has been a member for over 60 years and whose husband served as a deacon no longer receives any communication from them. In effect she has been purged. I guess that is part of this guy's purge too; get rid of the old and feeble who cannot serve.
ReplyDeleteHeaven help us.
Oh, can we please stop insulting donkeys. They don't deserve being associated with these guys.
ReplyDeleteModern Church Anon,
ReplyDeleteNo this is not 1810 but the same God that Wesley wrote hymns about is still the same God today. I like blended service because sound theological music written yesterday,today,or tomorrow is never outdated. You know why, becuase you can not put the Holy Spirit in that box. The problem is not traditional or contemporary. The problem is that the church is focused on itself and not God. Also you get a spine and don't hide behind anon.
Sincerely
Pastor Chris DeQuincy La.
Wish,
ReplyDeleteThose numbers and that information was from 3 years ago and came straight from the lips of David Coombs. They may very well have done some purging since. Sounds like they have. Of course, membership, attendance, and giving numbers are classified information now.
"Oh, can we please stop insulting donkeys. They don't deserve being associated with these guys."
ReplyDeleteAgreed. Anon 2:10 said what I meant.
This is the HUGE mega problem folks. And it is EGO that gets them to be so angry about the "member" problem.
ReplyDeleteIt is a deep rooted problem. They wanted to build a huge church so they opted for the entertainment, event, cool and hip method. but when you attract those that like that, you do not get a "seeker" of God but a social seeker. With little committment.
Pastors of these monstrosities consider it a personal affront that folks do not join and become active members. But keep in mind how they were "recruited".
It is a bait and switch game. I sat in tons of meetings on how to get the attendees to actually join! We even put computer kiosks around the church so they could "sign up"!
If these guys actually preached the Gospel...both good and bad news, the pews would empty, anyway. But folks think 3 pt sermons with practicial applications for living a moral life is the Gospel. They really do believe that...I did too, once.
Mega's are in trouble everywhere. They are trending down and they know it.
Some are actually leaving because they want meat instead of entertainment and an instant social circle.
Anon. Sep. 9, 1127. You're off the mark on all counts relating to me and my religious experience, but I hope your little tirade made you feel better. This is not about me...it is about a man who calls himself a "preacher" and is little more than high-paid clown. He bears no similarity to anything or anyone in the New Testament. As I said before, God have mercy.
ReplyDeleteGee, it must be fun to sit behind the anonymity of a keyboard and criticize people you know nothing more about than what you read or hear. Let's see, that's found in the First Book of Opinions, I believe. Here's a simple truth, you're part of the problem or your part of the solution and here's a hint. If you're out there working toward advancing the Kingdom, winning people to Jesus and growing disciples, that's part of the solution. Anything else is simply part of the problem and that's not biblical. I can't see how any of this adds to the Kingdom. Last time I read my Bible God becomes the sole judge of all people, especially leaders in churches. Well, go ahead, the Bible says that as we judge we will be judged, that should be fun.
ReplyDeleteAlso you get a spine and don't hide behind anon.
ReplyDeleteSincerely
Pastor Chris DeQuincy La.
September 9, 2010 4:33 PM
___________________________________
Pastor, I have a spine already, so what are you trying to say? I am confused. You are not communicating.
Also, why is it that pastors seem to be obsessed with anonymous posters "growing a spine" or "growing a set?" Were you guys such nerds and pussies in school, always getting pushed around and made fun of, and unpopular losers that have such low esteem, and worthless degrees that you have to try and find respect and authority in the pulpit? Get over yourselves. Move past those insecurities. We have spines. And we have a nice "set." So what.
“Last time I read my Bible God becomes the sole judge of all people, especially leaders in churches.”
ReplyDeleteReally? I don’t see that in my Bible when the Bible speaks about leaders in the church and in particular abusive preachers.
I know in my church and in every church I have been in, the leaders are elected. The problem has been once elected they misuse and misquote the Bible to consolidate power around themselves in order to keep their position and abuse their pastorate.
And let’s get one thing perfectly clear, our criticism is of the few preachers who abuse their position in order to gain and retain personal power, affluence and influence. There are many, many pastors who understand their right position in the church and work very hard for what is right and true.
Anonymity is necessary because as WD will tell you these abusive preachers have access to the best law enforcement personnel in the world and will use their influence to persuade law enforcement to intimidate.
What does the fact that you criticize people for posting anonymously and then you do so yourself say about you?
So tell me this, you do know that the Bible contains numerous scriptures that instructs us to judge, right? Have you cut those out of your Bible or do you just conveniently choose to ignore them?
Oh and for the record, we are not judging per se at least not within the context of the scripture you are referencing. I am completely unable to judge whether you or anyone else is going to Heaven or destined for Hell.
What I am able to do, however, is evaluate a person’s performance and determine whether it is in keeping with scripture or done in their own self interests.
And I think most of us would prefer not to post our grievances on a blog but you know these abusive preachers are not interested in addressing any concerns other than their own even to the point of ignoring and breaking the rules. What is your scripture reference for justifying this?
“Last time I read my Bible God becomes the sole judge of all people, especially leaders in churches.”
ReplyDeleteWell, share those passages with us.
"Well, go ahead, the Bible says that as we judge we will be judged, that should be fun."
ReplyDeleteJust as you just judged others and you were "anonymous" in your comment.
If the blatent hypocrisy were not so sad it would be amusing.
Gee, a little sensitive there aren't we? I'm amazed it took you such a long tome to explain why you have the privilege to judge and criticize. Let's just, for starters throw out James 3, it is about the tongue you know. Let's just start with verse 1 where it says My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgment. The King James uses the word masters, but I think you get my point. The principle is seen throughout Scripture. Throughout the Bible, God has chosen leaders, all of them not perfect (see David). Let me say this and I'll leave this discussion, I'm a pastor, not a mega church pastor, not a famous pastor, just one for 20 years who has been trying my best to follow the leading of God's Holy Spirit. I'm sure that along the way I've failed, I'm not perfect, but even as a pastor, I've felt the sting of criticism of folks who are not and who have never been in the area of pastoral ministry. Do I agree with what some pastors do, no. But last time I checked I have a full time job keeping my doorstep swept off. Hey, that sounds biblical,Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Hey that sounds like something Jesus would say (Luke 6:37 as a matter of fact). I'm not sure which verse you're reading that gives us the right or privilege to judge, that must be out of that first book of opinions. Here's one final text to chew on (Matthew 7): Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye. Wait, let me get the eye drops!
ReplyDeleteGee, it must be fun to sit behind the anonymity of a keyboard and criticize people you know nothing more about than what you read or hear. Let's see, that's found in the First Book of Opinions...
ReplyDeleteand
I'm a pastor, not a mega church pastor, not a famous pastor, just one for 20 years...
I'm going to take a wild guess here and say both these quotes came from the same person since both use the odd phrase "the book of Opinions."
The first quote from "the book of Opinions" just made me laugh. One anon criticizing other anons for being... anons. That's a good one!
The second one is downright scary.
Man, I wish you anons would come up with a unique screen names and use them consistently so we can tell you apart! Half the time I can't tell who said what. It's not difficult. Just click on the "Name/URL" dot where it says "Choose an identity" and enter a unique name. No URL necessary.
"I do believe he preaches the gospel."
ReplyDeleteI believe he does not preach the true biblical Gospel, I believe he preaches another gospel, skillfully and cunningly, that contains portions of the Gospel and God saves His people in spite of false teachers and their teachings. There is no light in that man's eyes. There is no fear of or holiness of God in that man's life or ministry. He is a domineering controller. He is scary. He is frightening. The Church in America has come to this and it is spreading around the globe. I lay much of the blame for this state of affairs at the feet of the Purpose Driven™ Life movement. God help us please.
Perry Noble might preach the full gospel. But he does not live the Gospel. This is a very important factor in determining who should teach.
ReplyDelete"Let's just, for starters throw out James 3, it is about the tongue you know. Let's just start with verse 1 where it says My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgment."
ReplyDeleteHave you shared this with Caner?
" Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."
Exactly.
...if we are liars, too, we WILL be judged as Caner will be if he remains unrepentent and hard hearted.
It is scary what passes for a pastor these days.
Again, I ask you...if we are not to judge then why not pastors who are rapists? Oh, that is against the civil law, right? So, to God consistent willful lying over 9 years is not as bad, right?
Consistent willful lying is a serious problem...Caner has it. Refuses to acknowledge it in reality..called it "mispeaking". Anyone who allows him to teach or speak is enabling more sin.
See Hebrews 10:26-31
You are trying awfully hard to make folks here worse than Caner. We are used to that from pastors. Which is why I study scripture on my own to know truth. If "judging" is bad then why did Paul tell the Corinthians to get rid of the guy in chapter 5? So the guy could be SAVED!
Are you familiar with the passages that tell us that LIARS do not inherit the kingdom? Obviously not.
"I do believe he preaches the gospel."
ReplyDeleteMost of his 'talks' were about himself or being entertaining. Some of it was very crude and insulting jokes.
Sad what passes for the "Gospel" to some pastors today.
Anon 5:38 PM
ReplyDeleteYou kind of talked all around the question but never gave a direct answer. You speak of the obvious as though it were profound truth.
I guess you have not experienced the pain and suffering that the abusive preachers have brought upon the brethern for that you should be extremely grateful. I have a witness. Stop following the party line and listen to the cries of pain coming from our brothers and sisters.
So why don't any of those who misuse the "judge not lest thou be judged" verse ever quote:
ReplyDeleteLet’s See What the Bible Really Says About Judging:
"The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue talketh of judgment." (Psa 37:30)
"With my lips have I declared all the judgments of thy mouth." (Psa 119:13)
"Open thy mouth, judge righteously, and plead the cause of the poor and needy." (Prov 31:9)
Jesus commended Simon, "Thou hast rightly judged." (Luke 7:43)
"Now, thou son of man, wilt thou judge, wilt thou judge the bloody city? yea, thou shalt show her all her abominations." (Ezek 22:2)
"But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man." (1 Cor 2:15)
"Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?" (1 Cor 6:2)
"Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?" (1 Cor 6:3)
In case your wondering those verses are in the Bible too.
I get a strange impression when anyone tells me they have just heard from God. I believe the scriptures tell us that the apostle John was the last to hear from the Lord and that was a long long time ago. Almost 2000 years ago!!!!
ReplyDeleteWell maybe in the next service he will hold up his hands so that the members will be able to see the nail scars.
ReplyDeleteAlso I would not be concerned with being on his church membership roll. I am more concerned with the one that St. Peter will have.
And yes my name is on the roll that counts. !!!
"WishIhadknown";
ReplyDeleteI would like to add to your list of verses on judging my favorite,in John 7:24,Jesus to the Jews stated "Judge not according to appearance,but JUDGE RIGHTEOUS JUDGMENT"!!!
In Love!!!
I've said my peace, I'm not going to get into a spitting contest and I don't really care why you think you can do what you do (criticize others). By the way, BBC, don't think you know who this is, you're probably wrong. You guys have fun, I just wanted to sound a word of warning but obviously you've got a word from God to do what you do. We'll see ......
ReplyDeleteWord of warning is exactly why we are here, to warn others of the false love you and yours offer.
ReplyDeleteYou certainly caved faster than I expected but then again that is exactly the effect the word of God has.
wishIhadknown ...... the key word is ASSUME, I can break it down for you if I must. Here we go, don't ASSUME my leaving this spitting contest is caving (it's just not worth my time). Don't ASSUME you're the word of God on the matter (you'll be suprised). Don't ASSUME you're warning anyone about anything (you're just part of the problem). And last but not least, don't ASSUME you're all that and a bag of chips. I think that about covers it, and I'm out. Last one out turn out the lights.
ReplyDeleteWhat are you talking about?
ReplyDeleteYou are the one who presumes to speak for God. I, and others like me, am only bearing witness to the abuses a few misguided preachers are inflicting on the fellowship. These guys think they are above the rules that once in power they are the final word. I cannot begin to tell you the pain these guys are causing. Open your heart and hear the cries of those around you. You stop being a part of the problem.
ReplyDeletewishIhadknown ...... the key word is ASSUME, I can break it down for you if I must. Here we go, don't ASSUME my leaving this spitting contest is caving (it's just not worth my time). Don't ASSUME you're the word of God on the matter (you'll be suprised). Don't ASSUME you're warning anyone about anything (you're just part of the problem). And last but not least, don't ASSUME you're all that and a bag of chips. I think that about covers it, and I'm out. Last one out turn out the lights.
ReplyDeleteSeptember 11, 2010 10:45 PM
Funny how this works...this person comes here proclaiming to know the Word of God but refuses to use scripture to back up their assertions and discuss the context. WE see this a lot in Mac/Caner type church circles. It is because these people never study in depth alone but only parrot what they hear from pulpits.
They are part and parcel of the "ignorant" Christian archtype.
Yep, isn't that the way it works. I know I'm right and your wrong because my preacher tells me so, so don't confuse me with the word of God, rightly interpreted.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, BBC, don't think you know who this is, you're probably wrong.
ReplyDeleteExcuse me? This is the first time I've been here since yesterday, so I just now saw your comment. I have no idea why you addressed me personally as I haven't given your identity or that of any of the other anons a second thought. I'd just like to be able to tell one anon from another! However, since you seem to be challenging me, I'll take a wild guess. Are your initials P.G.? If not, I give up.
I am so glad I walk out of churches when I hear someone like this and never ever return.
ReplyDeleteWhy do people even sit and listen to this smack? WHY?
He is a ONE and DONE church for us with spines.
"Perry does say that purged members can still attend"
ReplyDeleteSo they just where a big ole letter "P" on their arm or chest.
Honestly this is scary. Perry is tolerable after the first paper cup of kool-aid.
Leave it to Perry Noble to take something churches do all the time and try to turn it into something cool and edgy by using harsh language.
ReplyDeleteChurches put people who do not give or commune over a set period of time on the inactive roster all the time.
Noble turns my stomach. The only thing worse than his "edgy" ideas is his ability to exegete scripture.
Watchdog, you're blog isn't used to the glory of God. We were told to put away arguing and childish ways....we will all stand before God, including you and i, and will be judged on account of EVERYTHING we said, or did, or typed. It is obvious that you LOVE to sow discord about the church and in people's minds. You're opinion is simply you're opinion.....it doesn't make anything you say true. Perry Noble is correct when he points out that most church members don't serve.....if we are looking to be like Jesus....then you must serve because he was about His father's business. Watchdog......if you were a true man of God you'd stand up out of anom. and say who you really are. If you have the audacity to speak with such boldness, then you should back up what you say with some credentials.....like a name. You aren't furthering his Kingdom....you are bringing it down. you make me sick.
ReplyDeleteA friend of mine called me this morning and was excited about this church service some friends told her she should watch on line. I could hear the speaker in the background. It was New Spring Church of Anderson, Pastor Perry Noble and immediately upon hearing his voice and manner in which he was addressing the Body, I sensed a controlling, manipulative, condemning, guilt ridden, shame empowered spirit. I've been serving the Lord for 40 years this recent February 8th, have been licensed by the Church for 39 years and ordained for 36 and I hold a BS and an MA from Miami University of Ohio. I've come a long way in those years. It took me a couple of decades to throw off the spirits of control, manipulation, condemnation and guilt. There is still too much of that being spewed from the pulpits of this and other countries. There has to be a balance of "Grace" and "Law". Speaking the Truth is not enough. Anyone can speak the Truth... ANYONE, and shred whomever is getting this truth dumped on them. Jesus said to "Speak the Truth in Love." Jesus hated sin but Loved the sinner. Christians not only hate sin but end up hating the sinner as well. Jesus never "preached" as we know preaching to be today. Where and when it started, I'm really not sure. With the recent past scandals in churches, and we haven't seen the end of it, church leadership is at an all time low and a Body can only be as strong as its leaders. "They were first called Christians at Antioch". The USA is purportedly a "Christian Nation" and the World hates us. We proudly don the cloak of religiosity framing it's image within the guise of Christianity. "THEY WERE FIRST CALLED CHRISTIANS"... this was NOT something they named themselves. I have so much more I can say but, I'm stopping here with this: "Matthew 22:36-40 (New International Version, ©2010)
ReplyDelete36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
It all starts in one's own backyard.
I have sat under the ministries of some of the world's most renowned Ministers of the Gospel. I have attempted to share these Truths in Love. Not being able to see me nor hear me, it is difficult to discern the manner in which I have delivered these words. God help us all.
Peace,
W.A. Williams
I John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." That was written to Believers.
One last thought... The Doobie Brothers released an album in the 70's entitled, "What Were Once Vices Are Now Habits". Who would have ever thought that would be a prophesy fulfilled by the very church and purported Christians themselves.
I have one simple queation....How many of you have actually visited the Church that Perry Noble pastors? Have you ever attended one of the seminars that he speaks at? He who is with out sin , cast the first stone! Until you actually have seen or heard him in person, you shouldnt pass judgment.
ReplyDeleteI should create a group that criticizes the criticizers who sit back and don't do anything but think they have the platform to have an opinion at all. There's nowhere in the Bible it says what you are doing is right at all. "Watchdogs".... hahaha that even sounds weird. Get in a church, serve your butt off, and BE the church and don't sit back and criticize those who are doing it...
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