Ergun Caner returned to the pulpit Sunday September 5th, preaching a sermon, "Four Lessons for Godly Parenting" at Thomas Road Baptist Church. He preached about the four men in the book of 3 John, and four lessons to teach our kids: what is true prosperity, how to handle adversity, how to maintain our integrity, and that we must teach with authenticity.He delivered a sermon that was typical Caner: expository, filled with humor and self-deprecating stories about himself and his family. A good sermon, except that I can't take some of his admonitions seriously given the revelations over the past 6 months of how he has lied to and misled so many audiences of his background. He preached about the importance of maintaining one's integrity and character, and to not be preoccupied with notoriety - which is strange coming from him given how one can only assume he was seeking notoriety after 9/11 when he transformed himself from E. Michael Caner to "Ergun Mi'khael Mehmet Giovanni Janel" vaulting him to instant notoriety in the SBC. Nothing "authentic" about that.
The crowd seemed to fully embrace Caner. When he took the platform he was greeted with a standing ovation, and prolonged "hoots and hollers" from what sounded like mostly younger worshippers. When it was over, he received another standing ovation.
He is a talented speaker, there is no question, and this sermon shows he does not intend on missing one step or backing down one bit from what he feels he is called by God to do. While he didn't directly address his tribulations this summer resulting in him losing his job as president of the Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary - his remarks made it clear to me that he will not back down from the mantra that he was unfairly attacked and that HE took the high road by not responding to his critics. He will be preaching this weekend at Jerry Vines' Bible Conference, so this was a good warm-up for 'ole Ergun.
One of the most notable quotes from the sermon, about teaching your kids through adversity:
"What you teach them when you are attacked is far greater than what you teach them when you are applauded. You will teach them by how you respond, and you will teach them by how you recover....Don't you ever, even when justified, return fire. Never take the bait, never escalate. Let them say all manner of things about you. Why? Because that's what Jesus said"
and
"At the end of the day I gotta serve God and serve my family. If I do those two things I can lay my head on a pillow even if the pillow is a stone."
At the end of his sermon, he thanked the Thomas Road congregation: "Thank you for being my family".
If you want to watch this sermon, visit the Thomas Road Baptist Church website here. Note: the sermon title on the website is "God the Bounty Hunter" - a reference to a story of how he likes to watch "Dog the Bounty Hunter", and he compared "Dog" and his bounty hunting to how God pursues sinners.
I would encourage ALL southern baptists and evangelicals to promote Ergun Mi'kael Mehmet Giovani Janel as the head the IMB. Then with his stellar international credentials and his debating skills and his oratory skills (esp. arabic) in winning Moslems to Christ. He is a perfect fit. He is an engaging speaker. He is eloquent. He is polished. He can easily win all the Moslems to Christ. So Moslems, beware. Our secret weapon of the southern baptists and evangelicals is Ergun Mi'kael Mehmet Giovani Janel.
ReplyDeleteAbraham was a lied about Sarah being his wife. Noah slept with his daughters after he was drunk. David committed adultery with Bathsheba and had her husband killed. Moses killed an Egyptian. Peter cut off a soldiers ear when Jesus was being arrested. The Apostle Paul used to kill Christians just because they were Christians.
ReplyDeleteAre you upset with any of those people too?
You sound surprised, Watchdog. Are we surprised?
ReplyDeleteRight, TP. I'm sure Muslims the world over are really worried. I would have been afraid to be anywhere close to EC when he preached that sermon for fear of a big ol' lightning bolt with his name on it being hurled from above.
What is the lesson he's teaching his sons? Lie for 9 years, make money by lying, then when caught lying, get your lackeys to discredit or destroy every shred of evidence. (Hint: Like trying to put toothpaste back in the tube or unring a bell, once it's out it never completely goes away.) Don't get your own hands dirty. Your "minions" will destroy their own integrity defending your honor while you go on a 3-month vacation. Just lay low for a while, act like nothing is wrong, wait for people to forget or tire of the story (wagering that most people haven't heard the story in the first place), and come back even more emboldened. Never admit you were wrong or apologize. Act as if nothing ever happened and blame your problems on "them." Yes sir, great life lesson you're teaching those boys there, Ergun!
I think it's time for the vanishing videos to make a return appearance.
Oh, and anon 8:55? There's one big difference between the lives of those men and EC's to date. I'll let you figure it out.
Where do I sign up for the same type of training as all these Pharisees so that I can live with deception and live a lie too?
ReplyDeleteThis remind me of criminals who just keep on committing that same ole crime until they get caught and hope no jury can ever convict them.
Enjoy your earthly ovations deceivers because...........
I don't think our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will give you Caner a Standing Ovation nor any of the others within the Baptist Mafia
You and other like YOU make me sick!
Anonymous, actually I would like to defend Noah. He didn't sleep with his daughters. In fact he only had three sons on the ark. He did get drunk after they landed, that is true, but passing out naked in your tent isn't akin to sexual immorality. I think you might be thinking of Lot? Noah was the boat guy and Lot was the one who had a wife worth her weight in salt. ;)
ReplyDeleteI'm sure it was just a trick to see if we were paying attention.
ReplyDeleteE. Michael Caner preaching about integrity carries about as much credibility as Miss September lecturing about virtue and chastity.
ReplyDeleteBaptists are some of the most undiscerning people I've ever known.
ReplyDelete"Abraham was a lied about Sarah being his wife."
ReplyDeleteJust want to be accurate: She was also his half sister. They did that back then, ya know.
"Noah slept with his daughters after he was drunk."
Cheryl beat me to this one. I suggest you spend more time in the bible alone.
" David committed adultery with Bathsheba and had her husband killed."
And subsequently, David lost a son over it.
" Moses killed an Egyptian. Peter cut off a soldiers ear when Jesus was being arrested. The Apostle Paul used to kill Christians just because they were Christians."
Ok...so your point is what? We can continue to live in sin and not worry because we are covered in cheap blood? Christ's blood makes it ok to continually and willfully sin? (See Hebrews 10:26-31)
If we are never to become new creations, then what is the point of the Cross? The cross was so we could continue in evil but not be punished? That is the heresy you are promoting.
BTW: NEVER, EVER compare the OC with the NC. That will send you down a very wrong road. God allowed all kinds of stuff in the OC because of sin. He allowed polygamy, slavery, etc. Are you willing to say those things are ok now?
Never confuse the THEOCRACY of the Old Covenant with the Jews with the New Covenant of our Savior. It only leads to very bad doctrine. And we see it all around us...modern day pastors acting like Levite Priests.
It is interesting to note that FBC Jax is not having Ergun Caner as a speaker at their 2011 Pastor's Conference. As I recall, he is a regular there, at least he preached the last two years. And Mac Brunson is a close friend and co-author. The theme of the conference is "endurance", and Caner can teach them all a thing or two about how to "endure". Someone at FBC Jax had the wisdom to give him a year off...but you can bet he'll be back in 2012.
ReplyDeleteI also wonder where is the church discipline. Caner and Brunson in their book "Why Churches Die" say that public sin requires public confession. Brunson is an advocate of church leaders who commit public sins of coming before the congregation and repenting. He did it with a music minister at FBC Dallas. I had a "Deacons Resolution" read and voted and ratified by the congregation condemning my blog, my leaving to join another church, and telling people NOT to do what I did. Where was the Thomas Road Deacon's REsolution?
For Thomas Road to not only fail to discipline Caner, but to then only a couple of months after he is terminated as seminary president to give him the platform of their pulpit to once again proclaim how he was attacked and took the high road, really tells me something about Falwell.
So New BBC, I guess I am surprised at his quick return to the pulpit after his two-month long hiatus. Not that he would return, but how quick it was, and that Falwell brought him up. THAT sends the message to me that all is well, full steam ahead for the Caner express.
IF this situation with Caner does not wake some up, they are just dead.
ReplyDeleteSo, all the Vines supporters and defenders on this blog...how can you reconcile this one?
The folks at TRBC are lost. They exhalt humans above Christ and truth. And they do not care if Caner is repentent or not...they care NOTHING for his soul. They just want to be entertained.
They do not care that Caner used lies AND our precious Savior to exhalt himself...make himself famous and make money.
Instead of being ashamed of supporting such a thing...they celebrate it.
Most of what we know as Christendom in this country is this shallow and dead.
I can not believe that Christian leaders allow such situations as the Caner situation to pass as if nothing has happened. Denial is too weak of a word for what many do. God can not be pleased.
ReplyDeleteNow I am certain Elmer Towns is just keeping the seat warm for Ergun Caner.
ReplyDeleteHead over to Wade's blog here to read about the Story of John and Betty Stam. Wow! Compare this to the Jihadi warriors of Moslems. I am glad to be a Christian.
I wouldn't have a problem with Ergun preaching if he had fully admitted his wrongs. He was wrong. That has been shown. He wasn't persecuted or attacked, he did it to himself. Him preaching with no remorse, no repentance, ego in tact, makes me wonder what condition his heart is in. I would not listen seriously to any message he preaches until he shows repentance, although notice not one Muslim story. Not one. That's an improvement. But as far as integrity? May God be a bounty hunter to Ergun Caner and Thomas Road Baptist church.
ReplyDeleteAs for Thomas Road, with their going on the Glenn Beck wagon, other things they have done, Jonathan's statement to Glenn Beck, that's another whole series of posts.
This is LUDICROUS!!! Only in the SBC would this make sense...Alice in Wonderland is what the SBC world is about.
ReplyDeleteCaner was dropped as a speaker at a worship conference being held at Thomas Road next week. But Kingsway Music and Lifeway Music are also in on it so maybe they had a voice in the matter. Caner was on the list to preach till about three weeks ago.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.refreshworshipconference.com/
He has Repented!! What do you want from him.....His head on a platter?? You Pharisees are amazing...you scream about his integrity and yet YOU show NO integrity by blasting Ergun on a Blog! You would think he was Osama Bin Laden or the Anti-Christ by the poison that is spewed here!
ReplyDeleteTake a deep Breath....that's it Breathe...it is going to be OK....God is big enough to handle Ergun...and News Flash...YOUR NOT GOD!!!!!!
"He has Repented!! What do you want from him...."
ReplyDeleteThey want him to travel around the world to each home of every individual who was/is offended and make a face to face apology. This way they can say he can't be trusted financially because he spent so much money traveling.
He owes no one on this blog an apology. I know many think he does but those same people find it OK to be public about a brothers wrong, speak to it mostly hypothetically or wishful thinking. The facts are out there, but the garbage being printed here is as bad if not worse.
Look at the first post here. TP makes fun of Caner and the SBC.
Then this... "Lie for 9 years, make money by lying, then when caught lying, get your lackeys to discredit or destroy every shred of evidence. "
Where the source for who the lackeys are and every shred???
Then the other Tom says:
"E. Michael Caner preaching about integrity carries about as much credibility as Miss September lecturing about virtue and chastity."
Why bring up such and comparison, on a Christian blog (I guess it is). A brother in Christ compared to a calendar girl? Who is demonstrating integrity with comments like that?
Then to top it all off, Mr. Rich is guilty of these posts for approving them to be published.
"He has Repented!!"
ReplyDeleteEvidence, please?
Anon 1:44,
ReplyDeleteCaner said in his book "Why Churches Die" that public sin requires public repentance. When did he publicly repent?
Do you mean when he put a statement on his website that included the claim he "never intentionally misled anyone"? Oops. That would be another lie. How can you repent for lying by saying you never intentionally misled anyone? That actually is the definition of lying.
If you have no regard for the truth or the reputation of the Christian witness, I suppose you can believe he publically repented. He made up stuff, so why can't you?
Hey Ben,
We just think bold faced lies require a bold confession. That's all. See the above.
"Hey Ben,
ReplyDeleteWe just think bold faced lies require a bold confession."
What you think and what God requires are two different things here. But thanks for letting us know what you think. I'll stick with what God requires.
Of course I notice the slander and hypothetical junk being thrown out is ignored. I know why.
Hi Ben - how do you know "what I want from him"? Your exaggeration of what you think I or anyone here wants from Caner shows your contempt for us.
ReplyDeleteI have always wanted Caner to publicly apologize to the many congregations he has fooled over the last 9 years or so. Doesn't need to travel all over. One statement.
Go back and read, as painful as it might be for you to read something "Mr. Rich" has written, go read my May 18th post where I defended Caner.
In that article I said the following:
"The "Campus Ergun" needs to repent of the sin of creating this "Preaching-Circuit" Egun, and put this Ergun away for good. If he does this, Campus Ergun, what I hope is the REAL Ergun, can continue to teach and minister to students at Liberty. We Baptists should WANT HIM to salvage this ministry at Liberty that he has!
Its so easy. He needs to come clean right now, before the TV news national media, and Jay Leno and the late night comedians get a hold of it. He needs to acknowledge to his students, and to the world, what he has done over the past 9 1/2 years on the preaching circuit. It is not just "misspeaking". He purposely has misled people about his past for 9 1/2 years - I say purposely because it is repeated over and over again. He needs to ask forgiveness of his students, and of the many churches at which he has embellished his stories. If he has gained financially from these speeches, he might want to make restitution in some manner. If he continues to preach around the world, over time he can visit churches again, and apologize to them in person for his embellishments. And he will get a standing ovation and people will forgive him. I know they will.
If he has embellished his past and his credentials as an apologist to his students in Campus Church, he needs to admit this and ask their forgiveness.
If he has misrepresented Muslims in some way - and I think his embellishments have served to do this - he can ask forgiveness of Muslims everywhere, and this can serve to help him reach out to them in genuine Christian love. This entire debacle has harmed our ability as evangelicals to witness our faith to practicing Muslims. He should specifically ask for forgiveness from Mohammad Khan, for the terrible things said about him by Caner's defenders, and Caner should acknowledge how wrong it was for his defenders to try to smear Khan and make HIM the issue, rather than Caner's deception.
What a powerful statement it would be for him to stand in front of his students to admit his deceit when on the preaching circuit, to repent of it. I am 100% confident they will forgive him, and cheer him. And I think he can use this experience to continue to minister. He has a self-deprecating style anyways, and his repentance and restoration would fit right in with that shtick."
We have Ergun Caner speaking as recently as May of this year about anyone questioning him as "haters". This is after his supposed confession, that was later removed from his website. It appears at least to Mac Brunson that Ergun Caner has expressed deep sorrow.
ReplyDeleteYou will know them by their fruits. I can cross Jonathan Falwell and Liberty University off my short list of people and institutions I can trust to be examples of true Christians.
ReplyDeleteI know there is a remnant out there and I am not the only one, but boy it sure is hard to believe that Falwell and Liberty are just like the rest of these you know whats.
I am no longer going to consider myself a Baptist. Baptists must be the most gullible hypocrites in the world if they don't hold Caner accountable, and TRBC and Liberty and all those just like them. I would be embarrassed to tell anyone I attend any Baptist church. These guys are darn near delusional. Maybe Bill Maher and George Carlin have been right all along?
ReplyDeleteBen,
ReplyDeleteTrue story: I'm friends with a young gentleman on Facebook who professed he was an atheist. As a recent HS graduate, he was considering going to Liberty this fall. He attended that "college for a weekend" thing at LU last year. In passing, he once referred to Ergun Caner as "that hilarious guy". When he heard about the lies Ergun Caner had told, and then about his demotion, he was obviously disappointed to hear it.
This kid is not going to Liberty. That would have been good for him. This kid heard Caner's lies with his own ears. Then he didn't hear anything because LU went all silent. Then a quiet demotion with no word from Ergun Caner. And now just 2 months later he'll see Ergun Caner back in the saddle, in the pulpit. (or he'll hear about it) I have a question for you Ben - how do you explain away this situation to a struggling seeker? I can tell you I've apologized for it. It is embarrassing. How would you handle it sir? Can you point this kid to Caner's example of confession or repentance or humility or restoration? No sir, you cannot. Just some downtime, then business as usual. You think Ergun Caner is the victim of our abuses? No sir, this kid is the victim of Ergun Caner's abuses.
"Where the source for who the lackeys are and every shred???"
ReplyDeleteOff the top of my head...
Peter Lumpkins
Norm Geisler
Tim Guthrie, whose blog seems to have gone *poof* again.
John Ankerberg
Craig Daliessio
The BI Bunch
Much evidence here.
I think a good lesson to remember is, "you who is without sin cast the first stone." I am appreciative of the information on this blog but can not condone or participate in the public bashing and arrogant demand that Ergun owes me an apology. It is my job to discern and my job to protect myself and my family from heresy. I wonder how those who hate, and that is the appropriate word, Caner would respond if some of their deep dark secrets were brought to light. We all have skeletons. We all have falsely presented ourselves at times. We all are guilty, none of us are righteous, no not one. Caner should have the grace to work all this out for himself. It is shocking how much we all love Grace when it is bestowed upon our lives but then are so quick to demand one owes us an apology for being the same level of human being as ourselves. I wonder, do you pray for Caner and his family? Do you pray that a public Christian figure be restored? Do you pray that his family be able to trust in his leadership? Do you pray that the church would not suffer? Or do you just hate? What sin has he committed that is any worse than the sins you have committed by being harsh, cruel, crude, impatient, malicious, gossipers? I love this man because my God who loves me loves Him as well. I don't like what he has done but he owes me nothing. He doesn't owe you anything either.
ReplyDeleteTo The Learning Pastor:
ReplyDeleteAll you say is true, but I don't want Pastor's in the pulpit preaching to my family with tarnished reputations who have openly lied in the pulpit (yes, we've heard Caner speak many times).
I'm disappointed in all you "preachers" who stick together like glue when it comes to your own. No wonder people are leaving the SBC membership.
" how do you explain away this situation to a struggling seeker?"
ReplyDeleteI can tell anyone who asks that it is a sin. I have recognized that. I don't need to point out the sin of others to share Jesus. That is a tactic the devil would enjoy (I bet).
Any of us could be guilty of a sin that causes some seeker to turn away.
Of course, I believe that this blog has had a negative impact on seekers. How does that get explained away?
" I can tell you I've apologized for it. It is embarrassing. How would you handle it sir?"
See above.
"Can you point this kid to Caner's example of confession or repentance or humility or restoration? No sir, you cannot. "
I am not called to point anyone to Caner. This is where a problem will arise for anyone of us. Forget Caner, give them Jesus.
"Just some downtime, then business as usual. You think Ergun Caner is the victim of our abuses? No sir, this kid is the victim of Ergun Caner's abuses."
This kid is a victim of sin, his, mine, yours, Adams...
But it is easy to make sure we keep pointing our finger to Caner and not to Jesus.
Caner may be a problem, they are all around us, but our job is to point people to the problem solver.
I applaud you for believing you would handle this situation in a way you believe is right. I hope you will never have to find out.
Hello "The Learning Pastor" - I checked out your blog and read your Sept 3 post. I recommend it to all the readers, both laymen and pastors, that regularly read this blog. Here is an excerpt from your blog:
ReplyDelete"Pastors, stop building empires. Stop placing the ball and chain of enourmous debt around the neck of the body of Christ. Just stop. Our lost friends don't need our massive buildings. They need our message. Our message can not be found in how big our buildings are. It is only found in how big our hearts are. Let our hearts and bank accounts over flow on the people in our city to relieve their suffering.
Start new churches, finance more missionaries, provide more social care services, support struggling families, feed more hungry people, build homeless shelters, build abuse shelters, pay tuition for seminary students, send your people all over the world and don't ask them to pay for it! There is so much more we can be doing to honor God besides building new buildings. So what if you are out of space where you are? If God intends for you to expand trust Him for the money and just keep doing what you're supposed to be doing as His church."
AMEN and AMEN! You ARE definitely a "learning" pastor! :)
The Learning Pastor
ReplyDeleteI thought it was the job of the church and the fellowship of the believers to sniff out heresy and false teachers. Are we to be lone rangers, figuring it out for ourselves and not warning others? If that is so, then there should be no groups that watch out for cults. There should be no one saying, say from the pulpit, that Benny HInn is a false teacher.
Do you pray for Watchdog and the pain that he has gone through with FBC Jax? Do you pray for those who have had their faith challenged by Caner's duplicity?
Frankly, I am a bit put off by your superior attitude. You claim to know that people "hate" Caner. How do you know that? Because they criticized him? A bit of humility is in order, sir.
As for Caner preaching again....Good night! Doesn't he know when to give it a rest?
The Learning Pastor
ReplyDeleteI thought it was the job of the church and the fellowship of the believers to sniff out heresy and false teachers. Are we to be lone rangers, figuring it out for ourselves and not warning others? If that is so, then there should be no groups that watch out for cults. There should be no one saying, say from the pulpit, that Benny HInn is a false teacher.
Do you pray for Watchdog and the pain that he has gone through with FBC Jax? Do you pray for those who have had their faith challenged by Caner's duplicity?
Frankly, I am a bit put off by your superior attitude. You claim to know that people "hate" Caner. How do you know that? Because they criticized him? A bit of humility is in order, sir.
As for Caner preaching again....Good night! Doesn't he know when to give it a rest?
Hey New BBC Open Forum, when someone repents...it is to GOD not to YOU! WOW!!!
ReplyDeleteI am shocked by the number of people on this Blog who think they are the Holy Spirit!
You know people's motives? You know Ergun's heart?
Hey Partner...check you own Heart!
Get ready for a rude awakening my Friends...the way you judge others is the way you will be Judged and by the words I read here...It will not be pretty!!!
Mean Ol'Ergun is preaching again....He should be burning like a piece of sausage....he told lies...he preaches good but he makes stuff up...this is consuming me...i am obsessed with Ergun...I can't let it go....I know that it is God's problem but WOW I wish I were God!
ReplyDeleteYour not God so give it a rest!!!!
Anonymous: Then there is the problem of what to do with you. :)
ReplyDeleteDee...my, perhaps over stated, point is that I am learning that it is always better to extend grace to our fallen brothers an sisters. I do believe in 1 Corinthians 5 and that it is the church's job to sniff our heresy and false teachers. However, from what I know and have experienced from Caner's teaching, I find no doctrinal or theological heresy or false teaching. I just see an integrity that is sketchy and person who fell to the lure of fame and a pay day. I could be wrong though. I do apologize for coming off as superior. That is not my intention. And as for your question as to whether or not I pray for watchdog...honestly, no. But I do appreciate his work.
ReplyDelete"Of course, I believe that this blog has had a negative impact on seekers. How does that get explained away?
ReplyDeleteJohnny D . . . obviously the above didn't get the opportunity to read what you recently posted. :>)
Sorry friend, this blog is not one of hate and anger, just one of frustration of leaders who have failed us.
Dee gave an excellent summary on how the majority of people feel on this blog.
Hey, anon 1:44/4:53,
ReplyDeleteI realize this is but a minor offense which probably doesn't even rise to the level of sin, but if you're going to continue to throw these amusing little tantrums, would you please do us an itty bitty favor and learn the difference between the words "your" and "you're" and their proper usage?
Example 1:
I'm not God.
You're not God.
We're not God.
Example 2:
Get your head out of... the sand.
Thanksie!
"Then the other Tom says:
ReplyDelete"E. Michael Caner preaching about integrity carries about as much credibility as Miss September lecturing about virtue and chastity."
Why bring up such and comparison, on a Christian blog (I guess it is). A brother in Christ compared to a calendar girl? Who is demonstrating integrity with comments like that?"
First, there is absolutely NO evidence that he has repented of his ten-year campaign of lies to defraud the Christian church.
Second, IF he did repent, by Biblical standards, he is forever barred from having any sort of public ministry or leadership position for the rest of his life. His Christian duty is to shut up, sit down, and NEVER be heard from again.
Finally, his appearance behind a pulipt is more offensive to God that would be a centerfold model.
Off Topic:
ReplyDeleteStop Baptist Predators [Christa Brown] > Pastor's deeds teach silence in the presence of evil
I saw Southern Baptist pastor Sam Underwood’s column about his visit to Dachau. It was more than I could take.
Underwood sermonizes on the “sinfulness of silence in the presence of evil.” He talks about the “commitment to stand alongside the weak, the vulnerable, the despised.”
“If we don’t stand with these,” he says, “evil will surely win.”
...
He is the current pastor of my old childhood church, the First Baptist Church of Farmers Branch, Texas.
It’s the church where, as a faith-filled adolescent girl, I was sexually abused, repeatedly and severely, by the youth and education minister, Tommy Gilmore.
It’s the church that tried to intimidate me into silence, both when I was a kid and when I was an adult.
Caner does NOTHING but lie. Even his so-called "apology" is an outright lie. Geisler quotes from him on his webiste;
ReplyDelete"I "never intentionally misled anyone…. For those times where I misspoke, said it wrong, scrambled words, or was just outright confusing, I apologize and will strive to do better."
That is just a sick, bold-faced lie. For TEN YEARS, Caner did indeed "intentionally mislead" EVERYONE who he spoke to!!
Caner's statement is about is far removed from Biblical repentence as a person can be. His very presence behind a pulpit defiles whatever church would open its doors to him.
I think that Watchdog's article was actually very fair to Ergun Caner. He said that the sermon was good and called Caner a talented speaker.
ReplyDeleteBut watchdog also addressed the fact that there was no statement regarding the issue at hand. This is necessary given the very public nature of Dr. Caner's ministry, he has spoken at youth camps, state conventions, bible conferences, seminaries, and many churches. He did more than embellish an illustration in a sermon, he misrepresented his whole early life. That requires public repentance.
"Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses. Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear." (1 Timothy 5:19-20)
There has been more than two are three witnesses presented as well as insurmountable evidence given.
I do not wish evil on him and truly hope he is restored and used of God in the future. He's not an enemy but a brother in Christ.
Hey New BBC, thanks for the english lesson! What you really need is a Bible Lesson!
ReplyDeleteHow about not sowing discord?
How about Matthew 18?
How about you casting that first stone?
How about you praying for Ergun instead of publicly rebuking him?
Oh...I forgot...your not interested in the Bible...your interested in my grammar.
New BBC Open Forum said...
ReplyDelete" I think it's time for the vanishing videos to make a return appearance."
Google Found um ?
"Oh...I forgot...your not interested in the Bible...your interested in my grammar. Rant, rant, RANT, RANT, **48-point font** RANT... blah, BLAH, **72-point font** BLAH!!!!!"
ReplyDeleteLOL! No, not really, but it's "you're." As in "you're funny!" Come on now. You can do this!
Thanks John Wylie - I thought I was fair to Caner as well. Of course Caner and others here will label me a "hater", but I am used to that.
ReplyDeleteAnon 8:58,
ReplyDeleteHa ha! That guy is so spot on it's scary. Google can't seem to find #4 and #5 though. I think the titles were "Sometimes I Wonder About Charles" and "My Incredibly Amazing Testimony." I remember he couldn't decide between "incredible" and "amazing," so he settled on "incredibly amazing."
The body language of Caner at the end of the sermon is interesting. He spoke about taking the hits, not striking back, etc. etc. with his arms outstretched wide for a solid minute.
ReplyDeleteBeing the actor that he is, and one who understands the power of non-verbal communication, seems like a premeditated visual image of him as a martyr like Jesus.
Poor Ergun, crucified by his critics, but he spoke not a word. He is just like Jesus.
Hey New BBC, you are really funny!!! Great sense of humor!
ReplyDeleteIt's really side splitting to tear down Pastors....your a riot!!
Boy, you had me doubled over with your piling on of Ergun, that was awesome!
Wow, the way you tear down Churches and Pastors is classic...it reminds me of another funny guy.....SATAN
I thought Ergun Caner was a funny guy in a nasty way. Ergun Caner's humor maligned women and immigrants.
ReplyDeleteWhile folks are throwing around verses...here is a very important one for those in the Body who are leader. I would assume a president of a Christian school who preaches and teaches is leader of sorts:
ReplyDelete"Moreover he must have a good testimony AMONG THOSE WHO ARE OUTSIDE, lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil." 1 Tim 3
His testimony is no longer good to the outside unless he repents. His lies were public and he even profited off of them. He used our Savior for fame. And repentence is NOT saying sorry.
Did it ever occur to you folks that the Caner defenders who are rebuking those of us who believe he should not be preaching, have been learning their bizarre shallow doctrine from Caner? It only stands to reason they would think that way.
They follow men not Christ.
Wow, the way you tear down Churches and Pastors is classic...it reminds me of another funny guy.....SATAN
ReplyDeleteSeptember 8, 2010 10:17 PM
Satan loves it when preachers turn out to be liars.
Why thank you, anon 10:17. I love you, too.
ReplyDeleteJust for you.
That is a classic, New BBC Open Forum!
ReplyDeleteI was hoping the Church Lady will do a video of Ergun Caner's interview, if she decides to come back to SNL.
John Wylie makes a very good point. My problem is not with the article. My problem is with the lack of compassion shown by some who post comments regarding Caner's life. I know that I am an incredibly flawed man who has so much to learn about integrity, ministry and living a life that glorifies God. I would hate to think that my brothers and sisters in Christ would be so quick to demand certain responses from me in light of whatever sin may come to the surface in my life. I do believe he should publicly repent and issue a statement of apology. I think that is the right thing to do. However, I don't think it is our job to demand it. I think he should be afforded the ability to work out his own salvation with fear and trembling. I could be wrong and misguided but I am hesitant to hold entitlement over the process in which a brother deals with and reconciles his sin whether very public or private. I love you all and hope we can see ourselves reflected in what is happening to Caner. For all have sinned and fallen short but for those who are in Christ there is no longer any condemnation.
ReplyDeleteIn this message, Caner is talking about Bloggers and defending himself, using this passage of III John as his sword and shield.
ReplyDelete"God does not hunt us down......to put us in jail
Unconditional love, loves... people in spite of who they are...
...we are all guilty...
...we are family...
....Somehow he (Diotrephes in 3rd John) was able to Stop the Message...
...he attacked John with malicious words...
....and attacks other Christians in deed...
(vs10 So if I come, I will call attention to what he is doing, gossiping maliciously about us. Not satisfied with that, he refuses to welcome the brothers. He also stops those who want to do so and puts them out of the church.)
....don't you ever return fire...
....never respond in kind....
....never take the bait
....this punk is talking about us
...lose your your job,
...lose your status
...this is a test
...how you response to adversity
...when you go thru firings
...that is the teachable moment for your kids"
Since Caner was raised by a Turkish father, some might find this article interesting reading
ReplyDeletehttp://www.worldaffairsjournal.org/articles/2010-JulyAugust/full-Berlinski-JA-2010.html
When we fail to demand that our pastors/elders preach expositorily, that automatically gives them the liberty to preach and say almost anything that they want to say from the pulpit
ReplyDeleteI just cannot believe that this is STILL going on....that this is STILL even "news" to you people. GET A LIFE. MOVE ON. IT'S OVER AND DONE. God has annointed this man for HIS purpose, not yours or anyone elses. Shut up and get outta the way. All of you can't stand for one minute that Ergun is still in God's hands (God never let go of him in all this) and still has a huge, distinct purpose in God's plan. It's about to eat you alive that Jonathan Falwell gave him the platform at TRBC. Well, all I can say is...sit back, buckle up and hold on. There's ALOT more where THAT came from. You ain't seen NOTHING yet. God is FAR FROM DONE with Ergun.
ReplyDeleteNewBBC
ReplyDeleteTHANK YOU!!! (your, you're) That's one of my pet peeves, so thank you for saying what I've been saying to myself every time I see that (ditto for their, there, they're)
:-)
D
"There's ALOT more where THAT came from."
ReplyDeleteFor those in the Jacksonville area who are interested in hearing some more of "that," Dr. Caner will be speaking at the Southpoint Baptist Church on Wednesday, October 13, 7:00PM.
Some of you may be interested to hear Pastor Tom Messer who will be speaking at the same conference on Monday, October 11, 7:00PM.
"I know that I am an incredibly flawed man who has so much to learn about integrity, ministry and living a life that glorifies God. I would hate to think that my brothers and sisters in Christ would be so quick to demand certain responses from me in light of whatever sin may come to the surface in my life."
ReplyDeleteLearning pastor, If you have chosen a career where you are a "paid professional Christian" teaching the Word, you had best not spend 9 years laying about your bio to elevate yourself as an expert on something you are not.
What you are suggesting in your comment is very cheap grace. After all, you have chosen a profession where you expect to be listened to and believed, right? You are a sort of representative if God's truth, correct?
yet, you want folks to just ignore the lies for 9 years and act like it is mean and cruel to be astonished that one's heart could be so hardened as to not even ADMIT the depravity and severity of the lies but to just sweep it under the rug while you retool your public image.
So, what is truth? According to you, it does not matter.
Which is why Western Christianity is so shallow.
Anon 10:42am
ReplyDeleteThanks for summing up so much for me. I do agree that what Caner is guilty of is disgusting and should compel him to publicly repent, and perhaps even take a long break from preaching in order to get his personal life with the Lord worked out through a process of restoration.
Now, where you have missed my entire point all together is that I don't feel many of the comments on here reflect much grace or love. That is my point. We can know what is right concerning Caner, but when discussing another person's sin we must remember that our sin is equally offensive to the Lord.
But thanks for summing up, based on just a few remarks I've made that truth doesn't matter to me. Because I'm sure that in just a few words on a website you can sum up the full weight of who I am and what I am about.
"Now, where you have missed my entire point all together is that I don't feel many of the comments on here reflect much grace or love. That is my point. We can know what is right concerning Caner, but when discussing another person's sin we must remember that our sin is equally offensive to the Lord. "
ReplyDeleteNo, I understood you perfectly. It is very uncomfortable for you, I am sure. Pastors get squeamish when they see nobodies respond in such a way to the celebrity pastor. After all, speaking to pew sitters is what they do and they certainly do not want that scrutiny applied to them. I liken it to doctors and how they deal with quacks in their profession. Except you can tell us our comments are sinful and we are supposed to believe you.
1 Tim 3 says that someone in Caner's leadership position is supposed to be "above reproach to the outside".
So, if we are not outraged by his 9 years of lying and not are not vocal about it we send a message to unbelievers that this is normal behavior for Christians.
Yes, I sin. But I am not a "spokesperson" for Jesus on stages all over the US and I am certainly not paid to be one.
What you are advocating is very cheap grace. Caner needs to work out his salvation with fear and trembling because based upon his latest appearance, his heart is even harder.He has never once said, I lied.
"But thanks for summing up, based on just a few remarks I've made that truth doesn't matter to me. Because I'm sure that in just a few words on a website you can sum up the full weight of who I am and what I am about."
I can only go by the words you use here. People throw out forgiveness and never really understand it in depth. They also throw out "judging" without using it in context. If we never "judge" then why not rapists as pastors? Why not hire Ted Haggard? At least he admitted it and said sorry.
We keep dumbing down what is sin. Our very thoughts are sinful because we are born in corrupted bodies. That is a far cry from lying for 9 years as a professional paid Christian to elevate oneself.
I have noticed that when the public sins are pastors, other pastors tend to circle the wagons and focus on those who dare to discuss the depravity that parades itself as Christianity out there. You want to make the responses to this depravity WORSE than the public University president who traveled the US lying to people.
Sorry, you have no credibility with me. Anyone who would allow Caner to speak that is not a real confession of his very public sin, is an enabler of MORE sin.
I liken it to doctors and how they deal with quacks in their profession.
ReplyDeleteGood analogy. The elephant's sitting right there in the middle of the room, but they'd rather walk around the elephant and ignore it than admit it's there and do something about it. Then when someone dares ask, "Hey, why is there an elephant in the middle of the room?" he becomes the problem.
Ergun Mi'khael Mehmet Giovanni Janel is the sacred elephant.
Erguns departure after Jerry Falwell Sr. died was predictable. There were many old school legalistic bible thumpers at LU (and TRBC) who didn't like his style, his background, or even him shaving his head. Jerry was his biggest fan and without his presence a way would have been found to suggest to him to move along. Its just that his resume exaggeration as the ammo they needed to give him the boot. With a little help from their friends in the SBC. Times are changing at LU and TRBC for the better. Caner might be back some day, he's fairly young, and will god willing out live the old guard. (BTW no one mentioned Caner didn't work for TRBC but LU. And they are a lot less connected at the hip than you might think, trust me I know :)
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